Saw this coming a mile away.
(Apr. 14, 2017 6:15 PM)cadney Wrote: Last time I discussed D2 with @[Kei], I think I'm remembering correctly that he considered Wyvern a solid choice against it as well, stamina-wise? Correct me if I'm wrong, Kei.
Yeah, D2 can burst it, but if you have a good launch it can be.
And don't forget that Odin is basically equal with D2 in terms of Stamina too; it's just easier to burst. That's why TT hasn't banned Odin; it has a more perfectly flawed design than D2, which is just OP in general with high Stamina
and strong teeth.
(Apr. 14, 2017 6:24 PM)Ultra Wrote: Indeed anyone who takes it seriously and has the money to buy another one would not use a bad condition Deathscyther in a tournament.
Yeah, exactly. And when discussing this sort of thing, we have to look at it objectively and evaluate the potential of parts in their intended or best state; and when doing that, teeth wear is not a factor because serious players who can afford it don't use extremely worn parts. That being said ... this is an exaggeration:
(Apr. 14, 2017 6:25 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Bad condition Deathscyther: five-battles-old...
I won't put a number on it, but Deathscyther definitely doesn't wear down to the point of it being "bad condition" after just five battles.
In any case, I do think it's time to think about banning both Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther from WBO Organized Play again. And I say this as someone who has invested in at least three NIB Deathscyther among a handful of others in good condition, and also many D2 including two Mirage Clear D2 just so I could have one to use for tournaments lol ... so I have a lot to lose from that perspective. But the reason I invested so heavily in them is obvious; Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther are the two best parts in the game, hands down. There's a reason why they consistently top our events and why especially in the case of D2, they are always seen as the go-to "safe" choice by top players. If you go up against a new player who doesn't have a lot of parts, just choose D2GD and the chances of you losing that match are very, very low no matter what they choose.
In deciding whether to ban these parts however, we need to consider what could happen. In my mind, Neptune, Odin, and Wyvern would all shoot to the very top of the food chain in terms of Stamina/Defense. These are all good Layers that still have use even in the metagame as it stands today with Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther in the wild, but I don't think any of them are as devastating and safe in as many situations as Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther (in particular) are. And there's probably other Layers that could find use too; I haven't tested it too much, but I remember Blaze Ragnaruk defeating Neptune in my testing, and it probably has better teeth than it, so maybe something like that could become more competitive. Could be completely wrong, but the point is just to consider other Layers that might have been forgotten because of the dominance of Deathscyther and D2. We can't predict every outcome, but we should try to put some thought into it and predict.
Above I mentioned that we have to look at situations like these "objectively and evaluate the potential of parts in their intended or best state", but that is only in terms of evaluating whether a part is truly better or not than another one. In that example, the objective answer is that yes, Deathscyther is indeed better than D2 for Stamina. However, considering whether they should be banned or not is another discussion. In an ideal world we would consider everything objectively, but the reality is that it isn't fair to expect all players to invest in a (relatively) quickly wearing Layer like Deathscyther that has long since stopped production and will only become rarer over time, and as time marches on, the value of tournament victors who win because of their Deathscyther combos becomes more and more meaningless. You can't blame players who have it for using it or D2 right now because if you want to be competitive, you kind of have to, but it's our responsibility to evaluate what is best for the game overall. To me, I think banning both Deathscyther and D2 is the right answer, especially now that TT has pulled the trigger on D2 as well.
I don't see much downside to doing this, but I'd love to hear from you guys if your opinion differs and you're able to think of any negative effects on the metagame from moving forward with such a decision.
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