World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations

Choosing A Clear Wheel: A Simple Guide.

Jun. 20, 2011  11:51 PM
 
Yeah, yeah. But people should be able to understand the way I put it easily. It's about keeping it understandable.

Libra isn't "even" at all, it's weight is focussed at either end, somewhat compromising it's balance. That said, they're really, really unimportant, even for stamina, as long as it's the same symmetry as the MW, it's generally gonna be fine.
Also, Horogium is somewhat uneven, due to the hands and hole at 3 O'Clock.

Not to be rude, Stevebak, but yeah. I might work in a bi/tri symmetry explanation at some point, but right now, the guide is quite sufficient in it's explanation. It's kinda nit-picky tbh.
Jun. 21, 2011  12:09 AM
 
Oh yeah i get it, if you go all the way it would be like sience. But yeah your right. Nice tread by the way, yes some wheels work well with it metal look alike. some more than others. If I have to put it simple its like all beyblade are made with patterns that they repeat. some of them you can cut in half and see its reflection, and some you can cut it in 3 parts and have the same pattern.

But a good weight destribution and balance make sometimes good solo spin results. But when hit by opponents it can be easely knocked out of the stadium. Thats when the weight kicks in.

So you need these factors:
Type of bey you want. : Attack, Defense, Stamina, Balance
Good Balanced clearwheel: weight distribution
Harmony with the Metalwheel : sides equal to the metalwheel
Weight of the clearwheel : Heavy for defense, Light but not to Light for stamina.
performing these guides will bring you closer to the desired type of wheel you need for your type.

Th!nk correct me if I am wrong.
Jun. 21, 2011  12:31 AM
 
Well, weight should be lighter for stamina, however, if we look at the stamina list, (and scythe, because it looks to be amazing), they're fairly heavy, and the traditional best choice for stamina is bull, aka the heaviest cw.

They're still rather unimportant all over, though. Keep that in mind, for all this theory, it really means very little at tourneys. You may want to go over my long description of why they're less important than every other part (including facebolt) of a beyblade.

Also, aerodynamics are probably important for stamina (and poor aero for attack), hence, don't use byxis or giraffe for stamina, but for attack they rock (again, tiny factor).

A super light cw with no real cw, just the vital parts, would arguably be perfect for stamina, theoretically.
Jun. 21, 2011  12:40 AM
 
Yes indeed. the stamina clearwheels are meanly knife shaped sideways to maximize its performance. And yes bull is one of the heavy one and yet still performs well. So weight theory scraped? only the heaviest and best suited for there types?
Jun. 21, 2011  12:50 AM
 
Guess so. Weight is a factor, but as I've said, there's not a real weight difference between the heaviest and lightest cw, it's 1 gram, which is tiiiiiny. But you wouldn't put an.mfh on a stamina combo.

Honestly man, it doesn't actually matter, have you read yamislayers thread, (linked to in mine), and the guide fully? It's truly insignificant.
Jun. 21, 2011  12:58 AM
 
Ok I will check it out! Wink nice trading Ideas with you.
Jun. 22, 2011  2:32 PM
 
Waitasec. Why do attack wheels need poor aerodynamic qualities? I'd think that if you were trying to go for RPM(for smash/upward smash/upper) and movement speed(to boost force smash) you'd want something like Bull or Aquario to keep your momentum. I know it weighs down the bey, but wouldn't that just mean it stays closer to the center of the stadium? A CW with bad aero, I'd think, would make the bey lose rotation speed faster and, since the wheels with bad aero tend to be the lighter ones (with the exception of Unicorno and possibly Libra), the bey wouldn't have as much momentum to counter that with.
Otherwise, great guide. Needs to be stickied.
Jun. 22, 2011  2:44 PM
 
Nah, bad aerodynamics make the beyblade move less "regularly". Basically, it discourages tornado stalling on combo's that don't want it. ControL_ has explained the science behind it to me, and it made sense. It's mostly negigible though, being differently symmetrical to the metal wheel would be more important, and even that's pretty minor.

Do remember how tiny that weight difference is, too.

But yeah, I made a similar argument to ControL_ and he convinced me otherwise. I'll see if he'll help out here, but yeah.
Jun. 22, 2011  8:30 PM
 
I knew about the irregularity, but that seems even MORE negligible than the stamina loss, unless the wheel has, like, a huge thing sticking up on one side(with a balancing bump on the other). Anti-tornado stalling is more likely to come from an imbalanced clear wheel(like a CW equivalent to Basalt's Spiral Staircase of Death). I'd really like to summon the God of Bey-ology, ControL_, to the earthly plane to explain this himself. If he convinced you, then I must see what he says.
Jun. 22, 2011  8:40 PM
 
PM him, maybe, he's always been great to me, as long as you can understand his physics-talk Tongue_out
Jun. 22, 2011  9:21 PM
 
If you're talking about using heavier Clear Wheels for attack combos then I guess it's personal preference but for the majority of combos I'd rather pick a lighter less obtrusive Clear Wheel. I'm not sure about something like Gravity though (Attack CW vs. Defense CW).

And heavier is always better for Stamina. no matter how marginal the difference (unless the heavier one is awkward like Orso or something).
Jun. 22, 2011  9:42 PM
 
Can you explain the physics of why heavier is better, Mc Frown? I'd always assumed as they were central, they'd always have a negative impact on weight distribution?

Oh, those Gravity CW's were tested, Attack kicks it up a notch, it's great. Tongue_out
Jun. 22, 2011  9:53 PM
 
More weight = more inertia = harder to stop. Although a metal face will reduce solo spin time because all of its weight is focused on the axis of rotation which contributes nothing to the beyblades stationary momentum. The further out the weight is the faster its linear velocity and the more momentum it has. Torque it up.
Jun. 22, 2011  9:54 PM
 
Makes sense. And explains just about all my questions about MFB physics. Will edit the guide to mention this, if you don't mind (credit given where due, obviously)?

'Course, there'd be marginally more friction (and that would be increased by MF's with no benefit), but TBH that's negligible.

Thanks very much, Mc Frown Smile
Jun. 22, 2011  11:18 PM
 
go for it
Jun. 23, 2011  9:00 AM
 
(Jun. 22, 2011  9:53 PM)Mc Frown Wrote: More weight = more inertia = harder to stop. Although a metal face will reduce solo spin time because all of its weight is focused on the axis of rotation which contributes nothing to the beyblades stationary momentum. The further out the weight is the faster its linear velocity and the more momentum it has. Torque it up.

Maybe one should provide evidence to back theoretical claims. The way I understand it, it is not so fundamental. There are more than just a few variables which are interlinked; intertwined variables with each of their own thresholds play an important role. I'm not saying you are wrong but your arguement is lacking that extra credibility because of the misapplication of physics terms in the past and present.
Jun. 23, 2011  10:59 AM
 
Check Yamislayers thread (there's a link in the guide). Basically, testing such a small component is nigh on impossible.
Jun. 23, 2011  3:52 PM
 
(Jun. 23, 2011  10:59 AM)th!nk Wrote: Check Yamislayers thread (there's a link in the guide). Basically, testing such a small component is nigh on impossible.

I think what BladeStorm mostly meant is that if it can indeed not be verified, then you cannot just claim that, not to mention that "more weight" is very basic as he wrote. There are multiple factors involved in why a part is good, and while you can try to find the predominant one that is just slightly more effective than the other factors, I do not think you can simply say : "the more weight the better". Mc Frown even admitted that having a Metal Face would hinder the stamina, so surely you must specify which weight is better ...
Jun. 23, 2011  3:57 PM
 
A question-
@th!nk-You say that brand should not be taken into consideration while choosing CWs...
I wanna know, that was this statement only for the weight differences, or also for the performance?
I mean, sometimes, we do consider brands for choosing parts. The best examples are Hasbro's Dark and TT's CS.
So, are there any performance differences between CWs of different brands, if the weights seem almost same?
I do know, that its almost impossible to clearly see a difference(you do say it in the guide) as its very minor. Still, I just thought that I ask, if there is a major difference in some CW... Stupid
Jun. 23, 2011  4:22 PM
 
Nah, there aren't any major differences with clear wheels, and even then, they make very little contact to the opponent or stadium, so even then...

Kai V: True, I'd consider referring to the traditional use of bull, and that aquario gives similar results, supposedly. That, of course, opposes the difficulty of testing them. It truly is a minor factor, though. McFrown explained that as the weight is solely on the axis of rotation, it doesn't increase the rotational inertia, while it does increase the friction. Obviously, weight distribution of the MW, and matching symmetries would be more important, but yes.
Jun. 23, 2011  4:50 PM
 
Never mind just read it.

Good read, especially now knowing the myth of hasbro being heavier than TT as a false one.
Jun. 23, 2011  5:18 PM
 
Hah, I was worried when I read your original post. I should make the credits more visible, though. Blargh.

Yeah, the weight thing is probably more important than most of the guide, actually, but ahh, well Tongue_out

And yeah, everyone, it's not 100% finished yet, it'll be edited regularly with updates, so yeah Smile
Jun. 23, 2011  5:46 PM
 
(Jun. 23, 2011  4:50 PM)ControL_ Wrote: Never mind just read it.

Good read, especially now knowing the myth of hasbro being heavier than TT as a false one.

...is definitely a relief and a disappointment at the same time. Pro-Hasbro people now have one less reason to say Hasbro is good, but at least I won't have to see any more arguments about it...
Jun. 24, 2011  6:20 AM
 
This is awesome th!nk it is not only going to just help beginners but also very advance players. Hey you just even helped me, the main thing that people get confused about is what Clear Wheel they should pick, this is a great help
Jun. 24, 2011  7:24 AM
 
I think Advanced Players can pick their own Clear Wheels.
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