Building a Plastic Top Tier List!

No but I mean once the list is fully put together it's gonna be pretty long with all the sections so I would think that you'd spoiler each section so it doesn't take up so much room.
Oh, I know that. We'll see when it's done, methinks.
Mmh,done some tests!
Please,if someone can,try:

ARConfusedmash Turtle
WD: Wide Defende\10 Heavy
BB: Metal Ball Base (4 MBs)


AR: Smash Turtle
WD: Wide Defense\10 Heavy
SP: Defense Ring
BB: Customize Change Base


AR:Triple Wing
WD: Wide Defense
SG: HMC+Neo Left
BB: Storm Base


AR:Triple Wing
WD: Wide Defense
SG: HMC+Neo Left
SP: Fin Tectors
BB: Customize Grip Base
I won't have smash turtle for a while (along with some other parts you've mentioned), but Upper Dragoon is standard for defence too btw. Also, 10 Heavy generally isn't used for weight-based defence as unlike Wide Defence and Wide Survivor, it doesn't fill in the gaps of Upper Dragoon/Smash Turtle.
(Jul. 23, 2011  12:04 AM)th!nk Wrote: I won't have smash turtle for a while (along with some other parts you've mentioned), but Upper Dragoon is standard for defence too btw. Also, 10 Heavy generally isn't used for weight-based defence as unlike Wide Defence and Wide Survivor, it doesn't fill in the gaps of Upper Dragoon/Smash Turtle.
Theory,do the war in the stadium with that combo XD!
I'm joking,you haven't got the components,but please someone try Smile
Have a look at triple wing and Upper Dragoon/Smash Turtle. Put Smash Turtle on wide defence (I used survivor but yeah), Triple wing can't hook into the gaps in Upper Dragoon/Smash Turtle, prevent heavy hits. 10 Wide allows this, and it tends to cost the defence combo a lot of spin in my experience.

Yeah, mostly theory, but pretty easy to see with the parts.
(Jul. 22, 2011  7:15 PM)th!nk Wrote: Upper Attack

Bases: Grip Base, Storm Grip, SG Metal Flat 2.
AR's: Upper Dragoon, Triangle Wing, Triple Tiger
WD's: 10 Heavy, 6 Heavy (I want McFrown's input on this, and the same for compacts, as back in the day he made some great points about 6 heavy. He'd actually be really nice to have around for this project in general).

SG: Neo SG+HMC, preferrably right. *add more notes here

That's the basic ones. Upper Claw + Upper Attack SP need to be included with a suitable base, and there are some more specialised ones.
Grip Base isn't my favorite for Upper Attack, it's also incredible light.
6 Heavy is apparently only 1 gram lighter than 10 Heavy and its also much more centralized and has 6 sides, which matches up better with 3 protrusions than 10 does.
Another thing I think is that Wide Defense is amazing for Upper Attack with Upper Dragoon. I also really like running Upper Dragoon in left spin. imo it's better than right spin by a lot both for OS and KO. My absolute favorite Upper Attack combo (maybe combo period) is:
Upper Dragoon
Wide Defense
Left SG SG Free Shaft Ver. (Full Auto Clutch)
Bearing Base 2 (Or whatever Wolborg 2's base is)
everyone complains that it's not Upper Attack and it's too tall and it has the wrong WD and spins the wrong way but none of them have ever actually tried it. It knocks niqquhs off balance ko's them and zombies them.
Upper Tiger
10 Heavy/Wide Defense
Neo Right (HMC)
Upper Attack
Customize Grip Base
is worth mentioning. You can also use Full Auto Clutch in Wolborg 2 casings.

Quote:Smash Attack:

AR's: Eight Spiker, Triple Wing, Cross Griffon (if/when legalised), and Triple Tiger (I guess?).
Bases: Grip Base, Storm Grip, and SG Metal Flat (with an HMC).
WD's: 10 Wide, Wide Defense and Wide Survivor.

Then there are things using Fin Tectors with Driger F's shaft, or BK's casings +Wolborg 2's shaft, or heck, I guess even Uriel 2's tip (info is scarce on that, though). These need to be discussed.

I guess SP: Fin Tectors (Attack Mode) can be added, IF we decide to add any bases that can utilise them.
fin tectors suck. Upper Attack SP are better for smash tbh. Even Twin Guard is probably better. 10 Wide is pretty trash imo. Wide Survivor is meh. Wide Defense is the best at everything besides endurance/zombies/compacts. Customize Grip Base is good too but it's hard to get a good Dragoon V2 tip. Storm Grip Base has never been my favorite.
(Jul. 22, 2011  8:37 PM)Galaxy Wrote: Have we mentioned Upper Attack + Upper Claw for Upper Attack Customizations?
By the way what do you think about Smash Turtle and War Monkey with its rispective SUB-AR?
And what about Voltaic\Vortex Ape? I think each component of that Beys could be use in a Top Tier Combo,from 1 to 3.
I like War Monkey.

Also I really like
Upper Dragoon
Wide Defense
Left Spin Gear (whatever bearings/core you decide is prudent) with Wolborg 2 shaft.
Defense Ring
Customize Grip Base
as a Defense/Zombie combo.
Thanks for your help man Smile

That said, though, I took the fin tector stuff from beywiki, and it's generally a very common opinion, so you'd need to at least test that to back it up.

Also, would you really call that zombie an "upper attack" bey, or is it more of a destabiliser/zombie kinda deal? Basically, is it actually lifting stuff out of the stadium/chucking it around?

Also, don't we use the Heavy series for upper attack because of it's central weight, and isn't using Wide Defense ignoring that? Just curious, maybe I've misunderstood something there (I'm a little tired right now Tongue_out)

If so, that would kinda take a bit away from the point of using 6-Heavy (though the matching symmetry with upper attack AR's is still very valid).

And lastly, if you're using Upper Dragoon in left spin, why not Triple Wing? If you don't have it, would it be a better option?

Included Wide Survivor because it's still got the right weight distribution, though maybe we should test to see if it's as good as the other two? (At least, I'd argue 10 Wide should stay as the other two are rather hard to obtain anyway, and it's still very effective (and gives better clearance to numerous AR's)).
As for Weight Based Defense, I'm not really sure, it does fill the gaps of Upper Dragoon perfectly, but yeah, it's light.

That's a lot of stuff I need to ask. But I generally agree with what you've said, ahah.

And yeah, thinking War Monkey would be top tier for the defensive zombie, due to roundness and recoil lowering etc, though for a pure zombie, a smaller AR would be better for LAD, so it's not top tier there. Right?
(Jul. 23, 2011  12:37 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: Upper Dragoon
Wide Defense
Left SG SG Free Shaft Ver. (Full Auto Clutch)
Bearing Base 2 (Or whatever Wolborg 2's base is)
everyone complains that it's not Upper Attack and it's too tall and it has the wrong WD and spins the wrong way but none of them have ever actually tried it. It knocks niqquhs off balance ko's them and zombies them.

Just tried this. Was not in left though. Does pretty well. Switched the ar with Triple wing and it works quite well too. The driger F tip and shaft are parts which should be properly considered.
Bluezee mentioned Mirage Goddess for defense (I'm assuming Weight-Based), as it's the heaviest AR, and takes hits well.

Any objections?

Also, would Screw Zeus be top tier for the Defenses and Zombies?

And For Weight-Based, someone clarify, are we using AR's that hang over the WD for recoil reduction, or is it more improtant to focus on weight?

Also, MG WD's should be tested for defense, as they're covered with plastic, reasonably heavy, and overlap a couple of AR's.

UltraBlader, McFrown: Already thinking about Driger F's tip for attack. Wasn't sure what it went with best though Tongue_out

Also, would Upper Tiger + Upper Attack SP +Driger F's tip be good? If it hasn't been tested, is it worthwhile to test it?

You know I was thinking "But surely the sides of Customise Grip base scrape with Driger F's Shaft!". Then I realised I'd only used Dranzer S casings. Herp-A-Derp. I need to sleep.
Mirage godess is the ar of Venus and Venusian G right? I'd like to try this out but I don't think i'd find one easily/ Also after looking at the BMF files Kei linked apparantly it's alright at attack. Also i'd assume it's for recoil reduction since plastic on plastic has less recoil than metal. Also Upper dragoon is quite a heavy ar for plastics so it could be both.
Really? Which spin direction was it being used in for attack?

That's what I assumed, but yeah. If it is for recoil reduction, we definitely should test the MG WD (as it's one of the parts I've seen people mention there was very little testing on). If it works, it'd mean not relying on Upper Dragoon and Smash Turtle for lowered recoil, and let us use various other AR's or whatever.

Sorry if that isn't completely right, btw, I'm getting tired Confused
I'm not sure if a spin direction was mentioned. I'll look again tomorrow. Now it's sleepy time. Very glad I have little to do tomorrow since I stayed up so late.
Ultrablader, there might be some testing on Venusian G's AR later in the coming weeks, I'm trading mine to poseidon, and I'll try and get him to do some testing on it. I'd do it, but I don't even have a legit MFB stadium.

Very interested in the MG WD tests on weight based defenders, if it can be done. Need to have 4 balls in the base though, as IIRC the balls are magnetic. Maybe with War Monkey, or even Zeus's AR or something, I dunno.

Can't be used in zombie defense as NSK bearings are magnetic, so it messes with them.

I'm off to bed too, btw. I've got work tonight, and it's 8:32 AM, and I'm yet to sleep. :\

Oh, also, just want to check, are we using both parts of Zeus' AR, or just one part, and if so, which? I'm pretty sure I asked this earlier and it was both, but I'm looking at it, and Screw Zeus looks like it'd be an awkward part. Wouldn't it be Holy Dispell+War Lion SAR or w/e?
I have tested Fin Tectors. Magne WD is whatever. Magne WD is actually reallllllly good for Stamina. And the questions you had about my Upper Attack combo are the same ones. . . everyone has. Just try it. Left spin Upper Dragoon is the best. Especially when the opponent is in right.
Isn't stamina basically "Zombies and more Zombies"? Doesn't the Magne WD mess with the bearings? I mean, it could be tried on the SCB zombie killer or whatever, but yeah.

Anyway, I don't have a wide defence or wolborg 2's base just yet, and what you've described it doing isn't necessarily upper attack. You've said it wins by OS at times, through spin steal. You also described it destabilising, not necessarily "lifting" opponents.
I understand it may be tiring re-answering questions, but they will require re-answering if you want what you've suggested to be seriously considered, no matter how much I, or anyone else here, respects you or your knowledge of plastics. :\

I'd really rather you answer the questions I've asked, as a number of them won't be fulfilled by "trying it myself".

For example, what you've said about wide defense and 6 heavy are not really mutually compatible, as far as I'm aware, so I think it is reasonable to ask for an explanation.
I also asked if you'd tried Triple Wing. I cannot find that out myself by testing. (I could compare both AR's, but that would not tell me if you had tried triple wing, or your opinion on it's use in that combo).

As for Fin Tectors, would you please post the results here, because you're arguing with what appears to be commonly accepted as a fact. It'll require a fair bit of work to displace that.
It OS's without needing to spin steal. It wins by a lot, but it CAN zombie. Fin Tectors, what I guess is a good explanation is is that there's better bases to use than Customize Grip Base generally. I can't do results because my cousin has Fin Tectors.

Before I argue tell me how you define Upper Attack.
Also aside from Wide Defense I like the Heavies next best. I was speaking mostly for Compacts in any case.
Okay, I understand what you mean about fin tectors now, and I would like to compare them to lower base attack combo's performance, because I do feel that there would be better options base-wise. (Basically, lower stuff). We'll need to put that on a to-do list.

As for the 6 heavy stuff, my bad, I forgot that you mentioned it only in relation to compacts Smile

I've always taken upper attack to involve lifting the opponent and winning by ko from doing this. This is based on what I've read on upper attack and the distinction from destabilising.

How would you define it?

To be clear, I'm not questioning that the combo works, just how it works (it's classification). And maybe then the categorisation of it's parts.

I guess we should also test wide defense for upper attack combo's, too.

Also, it might be interesting to see the magne wd on low upper attackers, especially against sg metal ball, seeing as it'd be low enough to have some kind of effect on the balls, from what I've read. That can be left for much later though, IMO.
I've tried it, it doesn't do much. Doesn't disrupt preformance and also is a bad WD for Attack in general.
also the combo i use is upper attack in my view, it can smash occasionally though. Either way i love it :V
Using Upper Dragon in left spin against a right spin opponent isn't upper attack, regardless of you getting good results.
That's basically my thoughts on the matter. While it's probably theoretically possible to get upper attack in left spin, it's quite improbable that that's what you're seeing.

That said, I guess we can look at your combo for some kind of position in the balance tier, when we do get around to that.

These random combo's are basically going to be the main difficulty with this. IMO we should leave stuff like that for last, just get the basics sorted first. We'll get to them, but yeah, let's get some momentum before we get stuck on them Tongue_out
Also, for the Fin Tector combo in left spin, use Eight Spiker instead. Triple Wing works in right spin.