Okay so in light of all the recent mold discussion and after weighing a particularly lightweight Dark Wheel today, and because I didn't really feel up to doing anything else today, I pored over my part weight document with all my stuff in front of me and have written up various notes on any significant patterns I've noticed and so on, in a lot of cases this is me finally investigating the causes. The link to my weights doc is in the MFB spoiler in my signature, if you want to check what these are based on, though I generally include weights here. This is going to be a long post and I am spoilering none of it.
Dark: My Hasbro Dark wheels are all heavier than my Takara ones. Suspect there is some kind of difference here. My lightest TT one looks like it has thinner walls (and is definitely TT, got it NIB in Dark Cancer CH120SF), and the Hasbro ones look like their walls might be slightly thicker or maybe have a tiny bit more metal on the underside. It'd be good if someone could take some good callipers to a bunch of Dark Wheels – if it helps, the brand is easily differentiated by the fact the Hasbro molding code is BB# vs the B# of Takara. I suspect the use of B over A, which usually does denote a mold change but is not always used (for example, Earth and Burn don't use them), is probably just from the original more aggressive mold which is occasionally pictured in some media etc of Dark, which is in the shape of the Mad Light Wheel. Hasbro ones come from Dark Gasher x2, Dark Bull, and Dark Libra, all from Metal Fusion.
Dark 32.21 Hasbro
Dark 32.19 Hasbro
Dark 32.16 Hasbro
Dark 31.77 Hasbro
Dark 31.61 Takara Tomy Dark Cancer CH120SF
Dark 31.39 Takara Tomy Dark Cancer CH120SF
Dark 30.92 Takara Tomy Dark Cancer CH120SF
Burn: contrary to what beywiki says, Hasbro's burn is by no means always heavier than Takara ones. In others weights they sometimes are, but I've only seen very, very small margins. Here are my weights:
Burn 31.73 Takara, Unknown Mold - Likely mold 2/3
Burn 31.71 Takara, Unknown Mold - Likely mold 2/3, well used
Burn 31.57 Takara, Unknown Mold - Likely mold 2/3
Burn 31.50 Takara, Unknown Mold - Likely mold 2/3
Burn 31.17 Hasbro Version
Yeah so that's probably random variation, or they averaged the metal out or something (from my weight I'd assume they stripped it off but as I said, others weights disagree with that). Would like to review the evidence for the three different takara molds as the sides of that gap can be dented inward to make it narrower from what I can see, so I'm not 100% satisfied that there are three whole molds, especially as I have burns from the time of the second and third molds and don't see a difference (though I guess they could all be Mold 3). They're from Burn Unicorno SW145JB, Burn Phoenix 135MS, Burn Escolpio 100RF and BB-96's MF-F Burn Cancer 90WD.
Earth: A lot of variation here but no mold difference (aside from the very obvious mold 1/mold 2 changes, but all of mine are mold 2) or sense in the release order, likely just random variation
Flame: As above.
Gravity: URS Gravity's are very similar weight-wise to RB7 ones, I've always been sceptical that there was a real difference there, though I guess maybe URS had the new mold or something? I dunno, the difference is tiny and I don't see anything visible, but perhaps callipers could be taken to it.
Gravity 34.02 Random Booster 7 Unpainted (Mold 1 or 3)
Gravity 33.96 Random Booster 7 Unpainted (Mold 1 or 3)
Gravity 33.86 URS Silver (Mold 1), Heavily Used
Gravity 33.77 URS Gold (Mold 1)
Lightning: Small weight difference, but my Hasbro one has extra metal around most of the sides, most noticeably on the triangular reinforcements behind the 3-scale wings. Could be random variation, but if we see a consistent difference (currently from my weights the difference is very small and given the small amount of metal we're looking at that's not surprising, so it might be hard to find it, but others getting pictures of takara/Hasbro undersides might help) then this is likely the cause. Hasbro's is coded an unusual non-pair two letter combination of AB1. Takara's is coded with an even more unusual large number 3 on one part of the baseplate, which I'd be suspicious about had I not unboxed the thing myself from a reliable retailer and were the one on Beywiki not the same. Weights, close enough for crossover, so this could be random variation:
Lightning 29.68 Hasbro
Lightning 29.49 Takara
L Drago Clear Wheel: This was also a release where the Hasbro version's clear wheel is transparent vs the translucence of the Takara version, not sure if it's different material though because the deformation on mine look similar and I am have a subconscious bias towards transparent plastic seeming 'harder' for some reason, so I can't say if that's actually the case.
L Drago 4.02 n Takara
L Drago 3.91 n Hasbro
Rock: Mentioned this before but the 0 Cylinder mold is the same weight as the 6 cylinder mold – the metal is moved to the bottom lip, making it a little lower. ~30s increase in solo spin results, attack power seems better but haven't had time to test.
Rock 32.59 TT 6 Cylinder
Rock 32.55 TT 0 Cylinder
Rock 32.42 TT 6 Cylinder
Rock 32.29 Hasbro 6 Cylinder
Rock 31.04 SonoKong Rock Giraffe (edges thinner than TT/Hasbro) 6 Cylinder
Hasbro one is probably just random variation as I don't see a difference in the molding, and a single one is a very small sample size. I recall it having rattling issues in its stock configuration (Rock Leone 145WB).
Storm: Hasbro released a reinforced mold at some point, it has extra metal parallel to the gaps in the wings in the deepest underside groove, resulting in a small weight increase. The Hasbro Super Deck Set Storm Pegasus in the beywiki article shows this.
These would come from Storm Pegasis and Storm Aquario, from Metal Fusion as well as a third Beyblade I don't know off the top of my head. I believe the product code was altered to signify this change, the heavy one being BB3, the regular/lighter weight ones being AA1 and AA3. Takara product codes are located in the channel and are A#
Storm 30.68 Hasbro Reinforced Mold: Extra metal in deepest channel parallel to gaps in wings
Storm 30.47 TT
Storm 30.45 Hasbro
Storm 30.37 TT
Storm 29.72 Hasbro
That last one looks a little more bevelled maybe but on the whole I think it is just a particularly bad case of random variation.
L-Drago Guardian/L-Drago Destroy Core: Like most other people's weights that I've seen, my L Drago Guardian Core is heavier than my L Drago Destroy Core. Can't see a difference but while the difference in rubber stiffness has always been considered the primary candidate I'm unconvinced – the difference between my R145 rubbers is pretty minimal (though the molding on the sonokong one which is soft is a little sharper I guess). Do wonder if the rubber on LDrago Guardian's might be slightly thicker?
Virgo (Metal System): As I've mentioned a few times now, the mold difference is very obvious in practice – the imbalanced versions are really noticeably off-balance. See this video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGOul8kBSU that brad made.
That is also why we only get 3 minutes nowadays – 100D has much better spin time than anything on 145, and brings mine into the 4-5 minute range. The imbalanced ones seem to come from Random Booster 2, though I vaguely remember Kei saying while we were discussing it that one of his from there was okay??? I forget.
Big props to Dan for going this one like a bloodhound and finding the answer. Brought back some fond memories of when we were both getting into plastics and just tearing through myths etc on a daily basis.
We still need to find the physical cause and an imbalance like that should definitely be visible, so there's still that to do, but yeah.
Oh this also means that yeah, Virgo is actually not very good and being outspun by Earth seems to be the norm.
May still be some variation that affects solo spins – not unusual in wheels with a bit of an edge focus (though Virgo is not as edge focussed as people think – it's at its thickest a little way in from the edge and those gaps are clumped together but overall Burn has at least as much space in it, and the central ring area of HWS wheels is a little wider than Metal System ones, which is significant too), but nowhere near the 2 minutes on 145WD we were looking at.
One day I want to do Virgo vs Libra tests (would not be surprised if mold 1/2 Libra's smoked it, but they're fragile so eh) as they share a similar spot in the stamina spectrum – below earth and burn and I want to see how they match up, however so far I haven't managed to get them to stay in the ring enough to actually get results.
Given the confusion the current names have caused (and the vague explanation of what seems like a very obvious difference), I have a better name for them: "Regular Virgo" and "Off-Balance Piece of Carp Virgo".
BD145: I've mentioned this before, but there are two molds from TT/SK in addition to Hasbro's really lightweight one. The difference is the location of a hole on the flat side of the disk, near the outer edge – in some it's next to the wall/line on the other side that slots into Hell in Boost Mode, in others it's over the opposite side. Performance difference is negligible.
Lynx: My Hasbro Spark FX lynx doesn't have the hole underneath on one side like the Takara one. It is still lighter in weight by ~.2g, presumably due to the lack of metal filings. Not sure if it's the only case of this because SonoKong did it too for various MFB Explosion releases that we're still gauging the full extent of their changes to, but it's the one I remember.
Thermal: Again quite a bit of weight variation but I'm not sure what the cause is, possibly random variation, but may be worth looking into.
Thermal 30.72 Takara Thermal Lacerta Booster (No Stickers)
Thermal 30.42 Takara Thermal Lacerta Booster (with Stickers)
Thermal 29.71 Hasbro Thermal Pisces Ver (No Stickers)
4D Metal Wheels:
Phantom: There must be something to these. The weight Beywiki lists is 44.5g, whereas mine is over 2g lighter, at 42.34g. Mine generally performs really well, though my Duo is a little lighter than Beywiki's weights, IIRC my results against other wheels were in-line with others for Phantom. But yeah, there's no way there's a full 2g weight difference in the metal part without it being visible or measurable – someone with two with different weights needs to get on this. Haven't checked others weights to verify what they have though but yeah, not up to looking into that right now.
Flash: Again, over 2g difference: Mine is 43.38, Beywiki has 45.6. No individual part weights there. Should check where these weights came from as it's a strikingly similar margin.
The rest of mine are generally within about half a gram of the weights on Beywiki.
EDIT: Looked into the phantom matter - that listed weight is exceptionally heavy, most of them are around 42.5 total, so I'll do some arithmetic and get a more accurate average going, as in this case I suspect it is just variation - a single 40g metal piece fluctuating by 2g is not surprising. Flash, on the other hand, Byser and Ingulit's are both heavier than mine, and in Byser's weights this seems to be primarily in the Frame. This is a difference that should be visible, as the frame is a 20-25g part. In this case though, mine seems to be the outlier and I intend to re-weight it just in case.
Capricorne (Clear Wheel): The ridges on the horns down the side edge are much thicker on the Screw Capricorne version than the Storm Capricorne one, most noticeable on the last one before the tip of the horn. This is reflected in a small weight difference (close enough that crossover is likely):
Capricorne 3.16 n Takara Screw Capricorne
Capricorne 3.07 n Takara Screw Capricorne
Capricorne 2.94 n Takara Storm Capricorne
Kerbecs: Hasbro ones are below 3g. Weights for Takara/SonoKong ones have ranged from 3.3-3.5, with 3.5 seeming standard. 3.3 puts it on par with Unicorno II (the beywiki weight for which is rather light compared to my 3.33g).
Pisces Clear Wheel: Both of mine are Hasbro, but my opaque blue-grey one is noticeably thicker.
Pisces 2.83 n Hasbro Opaque Light Grey-Blue (from Earth Virgo 2-pack)
Pisces 2.54 n Hasbro Thermal Pisces Clear Gray-Blue
Susanow: Someone over in the Errors on the Wiki thread mentioned a different mold in the 105F Version (Hasbro release of the original, presumably would be there in the original) and the 90WF version (presumably also Hasbro's, but given my Eclipse Susanow's very solid 3.17g, I suspect it was used by Takara's too). Pictures from those who own different versions would be nice, weights even better.
Crystal Wheels: No mold differences to report but Beywiki's weights need to be made averages as currently it indicates that Samurai is heavier than Shinobi and Gladiator, when they all share a basically identical range from the weights I've seen.
Metal Faces: The original Silver metal faces use a different design to later ones - the red and black ones use the same system as MF Customs, which I posted a picture of in the beywiki photos thread. The silver/unpainted ones however are set up differently, it's very visible from side on and from the shape of the central metal shaft, but I'm not sure exactly how they work (I thought it was glue and friction but looking at it side on I'm not so sure). Weights seem similar, originals may be slightly lighter but most of my red/black ones have stickers so I am not confident in saying anything either way.
I think that's it, aside from ones we already know about. Don't see any other really significant weight differences or anything – one of my Revizer's is a bit light but I don't really see a clear difference so it's likely just random variation, though it is still possibly worth looking into, and I remember Kain Highwind having a particularly heavy Saramanda, so that is worth checking out.
I'm still looking into a possible mold difference in Metal System Pegasis, though I'd be surprised if it turns out to not just be chance because it clashes with other patterns. Still waiting for mine to arrive as the seller used Singapore post (from HK) which is not particularly fast (compared to HK Post, which varies from good to somehow as fast as domestic despite it all going through one sorting centre over East.) I would also like comparative weights of the original Pisces versus the Premium Returns version in case there is a difference there.
Aside from that I guess it's worth mentioning that some of the metal system weights on beywiki are wrong – I forget which exactly, I know Leone is one of them, listed at 38 but actually like 36.6 or thereabouts, but yeah if you get a weight that is different to the figures given in whole numbers for those, it's probably just an error (I want to get a decent number of weights for averages, personally, and I've not had time to go through the various relevant posts in Weights of MFB to see if we have enough data on any to do so).
So uh yeah there you go.
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