World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

Beyblade Random Thoughts

Aug. 31, 2014  6:49 PM
 
(Aug. 31, 2014  6:41 PM)JinbeeTheShark Wrote:
(Aug. 31, 2014  6:35 PM)Poseidon Wrote: Um, none of the Takara stadiums are perfectly flat, even the wide square has a slope.

So here is something. Is a defence type really a type as much as it is anti-meta. Here's my case: Attack Types are supposed to knock out a Beyblade, stamina types are supposed to spin for as long as possible. The sole purpose of Defence however is to literally not get knocked out, in other words its purpose is to counter Attack Type Beyblades. Now, while it can be argued that an Attack Type Beyblades sole purpose is to knock out a Stamina Type Beyblade, look at some of the results that we have had with Attack VS. Defence in all of Beyblade, Top Tier Attack Types have and quite frequently had over 50% against Top Tier Defence. I could go on for ages but here is just one more vague point:
- Without Attack, defence cannot exist. Without Defence, Stamina Can exist (they'd probably just be slightly more defensively orientated.

Now this is not about hitting down Defence Types. It's more about reclassification. Defence cannot be considered a type. Defence is a direct results of offensive dominance. Hence, Anti- Meta.

I would've made this a thread going into a lot more detail, but unfortunately, it probably would've been closed haha.

I think it's also because Attack types are mainly for KO and Stamina Types are for OS? While Defense types can be either, and I suppose that's like a balance type but I'm not are myself but I see what you mean.
Defence dude- you're British right haha

Anyway, Anti-Attack is a branch of defence which I guess would KO, while pure defensive types would OS yes.
Aug. 31, 2014  7:30 PM
 
Looking at the Mobile BeyStadium (2003/2004) being completely flat; and barricaded all around, Attack is worthless. They hit the wall and lose all of their power. It's very much aerial attack or endurance strictly.
Aug. 31, 2014  7:37 PM
 
(Aug. 31, 2014  6:49 PM)Poseidon Wrote:
(Aug. 31, 2014  6:41 PM)JinbeeTheShark Wrote:
(Aug. 31, 2014  6:35 PM)Poseidon Wrote: Um, none of the Takara stadiums are perfectly flat, even the wide square has a slope.

So here is something. Is a defence type really a type as much as it is anti-meta. Here's my case: Attack Types are supposed to knock out a Beyblade, stamina types are supposed to spin for as long as possible. The sole purpose of Defence however is to literally not get knocked out, in other words its purpose is to counter Attack Type Beyblades. Now, while it can be argued that an Attack Type Beyblades sole purpose is to knock out a Stamina Type Beyblade, look at some of the results that we have had with Attack VS. Defence in all of Beyblade, Top Tier Attack Types have and quite frequently had over 50% against Top Tier Defence. I could go on for ages but here is just one more vague point:
- Without Attack, defence cannot exist. Without Defence, Stamina Can exist (they'd probably just be slightly more defensively orientated.

Now this is not about hitting down Defence Types. It's more about reclassification. Defence cannot be considered a type. Defence is a direct results of offensive dominance. Hence, Anti- Meta.

I would've made this a thread going into a lot more detail, but unfortunately, it probably would've been closed haha.

I think it's also because Attack types are mainly for KO and Stamina Types are for OS? While Defense types can be either, and I suppose that's like a balance type but I'm not are myself but I see what you mean.
Defence dude- you're British right haha

Anyway, Anti-Attack is a branch of defence which I guess would KO, while pure defensive types would OS yes.

Y'know I could never tell the difference till now and I actually just learn that "Defence" was British, yes I know I'm stupid haha so thanks for teaching me that. But I think it's because I got so used to other websites americanising things as I never found it as common for it to be mostly British, or at least that I picked.

I also use to think defence types were the odd type as it's more of an advantage of one type, Duo is a more defencive endurance type for example or that Rock in theory is a deflective Anti-Meta I guess.
Aug. 31, 2014  8:05 PM
 
I'm not sure how Stamina can exist without Defense. If one of the three main types is gone, then another will automatically become absolutely superior to the other remaining type and imbalance the meta. If there is no Defense, Attack KOs Stamina and Attack wins. If there's no Attack, Defense has no purpose and it's all Stamina. Without Stamina, Defense has no weakness and beats Attack. All three types are a reaction to another type; if Stamina were to dominate, then people would stop playing Defense and focus on using Attack in order to counter Stamina. Attack exists to beat Stamina. In the rest of the cycle, Stamina exists to beat Defense, and Defense exists to beat Attack - without high-stamina wheels, Attack would generally lose to Defense combos and Defense would win all the time, and without Defense, Attack would KO Stamina types. Those "defensively oriented" Stamina types you were talking about would become more and more defensive in order to deal with Attack, until they became true Defense types. The metagame is basically self-balancing. All three types emerge because they are counters to other types and prevent any one type from dominating.
Aug. 31, 2014  8:07 PM
 
Illinois doesn't use defence at all and our metagame is a balance between attack, stamina, and hybrids. No one type dominates.
Aug. 31, 2014  8:16 PM
 
Yeah, no one uses defense in CT, for the most part. I personally dislike it because in some cases, defense combos have as much stamina as attack. More often than not, you're better off just using attack because it's about equal against another attack type and has an advantage over stamina.
Aug. 31, 2014  8:16 PM
 
Well you have to consider Balance types and the fact that there are different types of stamina. BGrin stamina, high track, Mid-height stamina, left-spin. And certain balance types beat certain stamina, and certain stamina types beat Balance types. That's were most meta-games are at
Aug. 31, 2014  8:34 PM
 
Ok I think we are just thinking this too deep, the only way to know if it should be a type is the perspective of many WBO members randomly selected.

I mean that Takaras/Takara Tomys mindset is probably that Defence is a definite type, but as WBO members they can think differently and we need to know what other different perspective thinks of Defense types.
Aug. 31, 2014  9:44 PM
 
I don't understand how Defense can not be a definite type... Defense is the ability to resist Attack usually at the expense of Stamina.

I definitely agree that Balance types are super important, and the different sub-types within each type makes the web a lot more complicated than basic rock-paper-scissors of Stamina > Attack > Defense > Stamina. I think the reason we don't see as many pure Defense-types around is that, as Poseidon said in the last page, Defense really can't stand up to Attack as well as it should in Standard. I think that Limited is a bit more favorable towards Defense, though.
Aug. 31, 2014  9:56 PM
 
(Aug. 31, 2014  9:44 PM)Cake Wrote: I don't understand how Defense can not be a definite type... Defense is the ability to resist Attack usually at the expense of Stamina.

Yes, exactly. Basically, what I'm trying to say is Defence is the direct result of Offensive strategies being played. Fundamentally, Stamina types are supposed to spin as long as possible. Attack types are supposed to knock a Beyblade out. Then Defensive types simply counter Offensive types. Therefore it is anti-meta. It just so happens that this particular branch of anti meta results in the Stamina> Attack> Defence> Stamina.
Aug. 31, 2014  11:00 PM
 
You can apply that same argument to any type... Attack exists solely as a counter to Stamina types. A higher-Stamina Beyblade is the only possible way to beat a Defense type. All three types are direct counters to the other three. So are they all "anti-meta"? And then there's spin-stealers, which are arguably Stamina counters, and counters to spin stealers, Anti-Attack as a direct counter to Attack different from traditional Defense (aggro movement vs passive movement), and a huge variety of height-specific combos that counter other heights. Pretty much every type you can think of is a counter to something.

What I'm trying to say is that you are fooling yourself with your phrasing. If I rephrase what you said a bit:
(Aug. 31, 2014  9:56 PM)Poseidon Wrote: Yes, exactly. Basically, what I'm trying to say is Defence is the direct result of Offensive strategies being played. Fundamentally, Stamina types are supposed to spin as long as possible, in order to counter Defense by taking advantage of its low Stamina. Attack types are supposed to knock a Beyblade out, in order to counter Stamina's extremely long spin time. Then Defensive types simply counter Offensive types with high weight and grip and low recoil to avoid being knocked out.

TL;DR any type can be considered a counter to another type. Just because a type of Beyblade exists to counter another type doesn't mean it's not a type.
Aug. 31, 2014  11:24 PM
 
Not sure how/if this fits into arguments, but nowadays, I've found that tornado stalling, even with a rubber tip, usually beats large defence Synchromes.
Aug. 31, 2014  11:35 PM
 
Yeah, that's another problem that Defense has in Standard; the Defense types sometimes have so little Stamina that they can't even OS the Attack types they need to beat. I use Attack often in Standard, and I noticed that too; you can sometimes beat Defense with Attack by just stalling it out. The poor Stamina that Revizer^2 has is probably part of the reason that you don't see it around a lot; most Defense combos I see are either Dragooon-based or Genbull-based in order to get more Stamina, basically making them Balance.
Sep. 01, 2014  4:40 AM
 
After reading through this thread the other day, I was reminded of why I used to refer to "spin-stealers" as equalizers. If users of combinations under the Spin-Stealer subcategory of the tier list actually tend to weakly launch those combos rather often, I could understand the aptitude of this terminology. But if that's not usually the case, at least against Right-Spin Stamina, and the so-called spin-stealers are initially being launched at similar velocities as their opponents, then why haven't we been calling them "equalizers" all this time, especially if there's not been any significant stealing of spin occurring?

EDIT: Oh wait, that subcategory thing's no longer being used. I got confused after looking back at all those old tier lists, lol. I'd still like to know why the term "spin-stealer"'s always been so much more popular than "equalizer," though.

EDIT2: Aaaaand, this isn't the Ask a Question, Get an Answer thread. Tired
Sep. 01, 2014  4:55 AM
 
I dunno if this had been acknowledged arleady, but looking at Hasbro's Samurai Pegasus they went with a legacy theme. As in each part is colored after a shade of blue or red as seen in previous Pegasi iterations.

Might have been intentional on their part but who knows.
Sep. 01, 2014  7:56 AM
 
Anyone notice that one shogun steel dragooon double pack has become increasingly rare? I remember seeing it in stores and now it seems to be worth a lot online. Makes me regret not purchasing it while I had the chance.
Sep. 01, 2014  7:58 AM
 
Yup; it's the useful parts. A black Dragooon heavy mold, SA165..
Sep. 01, 2014  7:26 PM
 
(Aug. 31, 2014  7:30 PM)Neo Wrote: Looking at the Mobile BeyStadium (2003/2004) being completely flat; and barricaded all around, Attack is worthless. They hit the wall and lose all of their power. It's very much aerial attack or endurance strictly.

The G-revolution mobile Stadium is not completely flat. It doesn't have as deep a dip as a square stadium but it does have a dip.
Sep. 01, 2014  7:47 PM
 
(Sep. 01, 2014  7:26 PM)DRANZER KING Wrote:
(Aug. 31, 2014  7:30 PM)Neo Wrote: Looking at the Mobile BeyStadium (2003/2004) being completely flat; and barricaded all around, Attack is worthless. They hit the wall and lose all of their power. It's very much aerial attack or endurance strictly.

The G-revolution mobile Stadium is not completely flat. It doesn't have as deep a dip as a square stadium but it does have a dip.

Barely.
It may as well be flat, though.
Sep. 01, 2014  7:49 PM
 
(Sep. 01, 2014  7:47 PM)Neo Wrote:
(Sep. 01, 2014  7:26 PM)DRANZER KING Wrote:
(Aug. 31, 2014  7:30 PM)Neo Wrote: Looking at the Mobile BeyStadium (2003/2004) being completely flat; and barricaded all around, Attack is worthless. They hit the wall and lose all of their power. It's very much aerial attack or endurance strictly.

The G-revolution mobile Stadium is not completely flat. It doesn't have as deep a dip as a square stadium but it does have a dip.

Barely.
It may as well be flat, though.

The stadium would suck if it was flat. The dip is noticeable when your battling.
Sep. 01, 2014  7:53 PM
 
(Sep. 01, 2014  7:49 PM)DRANZER KING Wrote:
(Sep. 01, 2014  7:47 PM)Neo Wrote:
(Sep. 01, 2014  7:26 PM)DRANZER KING Wrote: The G-revolution mobile Stadium is not completely flat. It doesn't have as deep a dip as a square stadium but it does have a dip.

Barely.
It may as well be flat, though.

The stadium would suck if it was flat. The dip is noticeable when your battling.

It already kinda sucks.
Have you tried using ACB in it?
Sep. 01, 2014  7:55 PM
 
Eh , atleast it's fun.


Whats ACB?
Sep. 01, 2014  7:56 PM
 
(Sep. 01, 2014  7:55 PM)DRANZER KING Wrote: Eh , atleast it's fun.


Whats ACB?

Auto Change Balancer.
Sep. 01, 2014  7:57 PM
 
Don't have it. Even if I did, is keep it mint. I don't battle plastics, just collect. I've been using MFB in the EGMS.
Sep. 01, 2014  8:10 PM
 
(Sep. 01, 2014  7:57 PM)DRANZER KING Wrote: Don't have it. Even if I did, is keep it mint. I don't battle plastics, just collect. I've been using MFB in the EGMS.

Then get a used one...
I'm not saying you should get it for collection.
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