If you use the same word over and over again, it becomes way too repetitive, and simply does not display a lot of writing skills, which is required when writing for an encyclopedia.

... Perhaps you do not know the physics of it, but what happens at other heights that make TH170 and SR200 the best choices ? There is something you can observe which you can report without being Newton.

Who cares about F230CF being the highest setup though ? It performs better than SA165 simply because it is more of a Life After Death part than SA165, not because of the height. You would probably put it at 140 and it would still be better. It is not relevant to mention the height. Real Life After Death is in plastics anyway.

The variation in F230s needs a specific section though, like in all other Beyblade articles where they have parts that differ in their releases. Even if there is not something physically discernable about each F230, it still needs to have the general expression : "Mold Variation".



Sure, a lot of the bolded edits were simply grammatical things that you should definitely not take to heart, but they are all important.

Sorry if I went 2 far with the expert on LAD thing.

Overall, after a lot of changes, this article seems very acceptable.
I'll see if I can update your Samurai Pegasis draft.

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If you use the same word over and over again, it becomes way too repetitive, and simply does not display a lot of writing skills, which is required when writing for an encyclopedia.

... Perhaps you do not know the physics of it, but what happens at other heights that make TH170 and SR200 the best choices ? There is something you can observe which you can report without being Newton.

Who cares about F230CF being the highest setup though ? It performs better than SA165 simply because it is more of a Life After Death part than SA165, not because of the height. You would probably put it at 140 and it would still be better. It is not relevant to mention the height. Real Life After Death is in plastics anyway.

The variation in F230s needs a specific section though, like in all other Beyblade articles where they have parts that differ in their releases. Even if there is not something physically discernable about each F230, it still needs to have the general expression : "Mold Variation".



Sure, a lot of the bolded edits were simply grammatical things that you should definitely not take to heart, but they are all important.

Ooooooooh! You thought I meant the height of the track... sorry about that. XD I meant that it has high LAD as in a lot of it.

As for SR200/TH170, I don't know... I don't see any visible difference in behavior, other than the fact that it's higher. :\ Plus, though we do know from formal testing that it kinda fails on 230, it hasn't actually been tested on W145 formally yet... from my informal experience, it doesn't work very well, but I could be wrong.

As for mold variations, OK, I guess I'll put that in then.

Sorry 'bout all the mistakes. XD I'm kinda tired at the moment TBH.

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Oh, that really needs to be reworded then, and even then, it is "touchy" to say ... Nocto has said that few parts and combinations actually have Life After Death in Metal Fight Beyblade, but that BD145 and SA165 did; he had not tried F230 yet, but he seemed to say that it might not get to be qualified as a "Life After Death part". I certainly would not go out and write that it has the highest "LAD abilities" though, perhaps not even in Metal Fight Beyblade.

I do not mean the difference between SR200 and TH170. I was able to see differences between SD, D and WD for something Ga'Hooleone had requested me to do, and it was just a matter of timing solo spin tests to see if one Bottom made the combination start precessing earlier than the other, if the customization overall spun longer, if the Bottom paired with some beginning of precession made the Beyblade go totally out of the stamina centre, etc. I am very sure that similar observations can be made for Tracks, otherwise there is no difference that can be reported.

Well, it's spinning after having toppled. That's how th!nk defined it, and Kei did state the F230 did indeed have "Life After Death." :\ I don't know... what would be word to replace "higher?" I can't think of a good one. XD

EDIT: I didn't mean differences between SR200 and TH170... just differences between them and other tracks. I really don't know why it works... it just keeps spinning longer against the other guy than stuff like 145/230 does. :\ I don't now why. I haven't tested the solo spin time, but that can be pointless, as things like B can hit up to 7 1/2 minutes, and it loses to 230SD which has a much lower spin time.

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There are still things that a combination does on its own which you can observe in battles too ... For instance, does it automatically fall and stop spinning as soon as its precession starts, does it precess dangerously low but still keeps spinning regardless, etc.

There are still things that a combination does on its own which you can observe in battles too ... For instance, does it automatically fall and stop spinning as soon as its precession starts, does it precess dangerously low but still keeps spinning regardless, etc.

Yes, I am aware of that, but I'm saying that in this particular case that these stamina customs aren't showing any differences in behavior as opposed to normal stamina types that I can see. They just win a lot. :\ Lord knows why, but they do.

The only reason I can give for why it works better on SR200/TH170, is that it beats more stuff. No real reason other than that.

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What I understood from your posts is that you had not even tried testing them in solo spins or that much against other Tracks or anything ...

Solo Spin time means how long a bey spins without nothing touching it, right?

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What I understood from your posts is that you had not even tried testing them in solo spins or that much against other Tracks or anything ...

Yes I have... :\ I've tried Genbull on W145 and other tracks extensively against countless variations of customs, and TH170/SR200 both work better for me...

Genbull is a very, very strange Chrome Wheel. It works in weird ways. It works with weird tracks and weird bottoms, and it doesn't work well with the conventional stamina set-ups most people use (ie. W145WD.230D/SD etc.). I don't know why... I don't believe anyone does. I've done hundreds and hundreds of rounds of informal stamina testing with Genbull, and I can't say why it does what it does.

It's not like MF-L Duo ____ 230MB, where I could easily describe that: "Oh, 230 allows the combo to wobble at a steeper angle, thus allowing it to grind into the opponent from above," because that is a clearly describable, measurable (height = sharper angle of incline), and visible behavior.

Duo 230SD's ability to OS certain things is not describable nor visible, because all it does is spin longer. It doesn't produce a grinding effect, it doesn't wobble to force grind, it doesn't produce more visible smash, it doesn't visibly reduce recoil; it just spins longer than the other guy X out of 10 times more than other setups.

If you actually read the Beywiki, in the Duo section of Duo Uranus 230WD, it clearly describes the reason why Duo 230MB works well, but there is no description for why Duo TH170D works... because there isn't a definite explanation. There is also no definite explanation in the 230 section of why it works better than stuff like W145 in some cases, besides the fact that it can wobble (which obviously isn't the primary reason, as it can out-do W145 without even beginning to wobble slightly). It isn't observable... the only observable variable in 230's performance vs. W145/TH170 etc. is that it OSes them nearly every single time.

Basically, There is no visible behavior that obviously causes Genbull to work great with these tracks, like some combos that are obviously amazing because of a certain behavior that is definitely, observably caused by a certain piece, like Girago's spin-draning abilties, RF/R2F/LRF's traction, Reviser's heavy weight and smooth shape, etc. But you can't really see anything about SR200, whether spinning or stationary, that causes it to work well with Genbull.

On the issue of solo-spin time, I believe it's irrelevant in determining an encyclopedic definition of a part's competitive ability. Solo-spin times really determine nothing when you look at the actual test results where they are out-spun by parts with lower solo-spin time (ie. B : D vs. 230SD, or SA165 vs. W145).

Do you happen to know (someone who knows) why Genbull works well with these tracks? Is there some procedure/testing style I am missing? I really and truly don't know why it works, and I don't know how to find out... if I could, I would, but I can't ya' know?

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I know that this may sound stupid, but try explaining why and/or how Genbull works well with TH170 and SR200 as scientifically as possible. Like if you look at Phantom and Duo. I am just trying to help

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That's what I'm trying to say... I don't know why... I just don't... I've already said it 3 times, and I just wrote an 8 paragraph post on why I can't figure it out.

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I know, I know, I know...
Does it really matter, though? We know that Genbull works well on TH170 and SR200, and we don't really need to know why.

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I'd change the Stone Face section a little bit too:

"The sticker on this Stone Face represents a comical illustration of depicts a turtle shell with an eye peering from the hole. Genbull is based on Genbu, or Xuan Wu, the black tortoise with a snake coiling around it in Chinese mythology."

Just personal taste, I find it a little too wordy and not quite encyclopedic.

I'd change the Stone Face section a little bit too:

"The sticker on this Stone Face represents a comical illustration of depicts a turtle shell with an eye peering from the hole. Genbull is based on Genbu, or Xuan Wu, the black tortoise with a snake coiling around it in Chinese mythology."

Just personal taste, I find it a little too wordy and not quite encyclopedic.

Maybe the Genbu should be taken out now that I think about it.

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TB is agro right? if so you would want to note that.

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It shouldn't, considering that is the origin of the design and the name...

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"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new: an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere."

-Anton Ego/Peter O'Toole (1932-2013)

I'd change the Stone Face section a little bit too:

"The sticker on this Stone Face represents a comical illustration of depicts a turtle shell with an eye peering from the hole. Genbull is based on Genbu, or Xuan Wu, the black tortoise with a snake coiling around it in Chinese mythology."

Just personal taste, I find it a little too wordy and not quite encyclopedic.

Maybe the Genbu should be taken out now that I think about it.

No, that's definitely something to include. It'll relevant to the design.

Then how about Xuan Wu?

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Such a minor detail hardly requires nitpicking, but to answer your question: No, since it's just an alternative name.

Perhaps we should have a discussion that is somewhat more productive, hm?

---

"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new: an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere."

-Anton Ego/Peter O'Toole (1932-2013)

Such a minor detail hardly requires nitpicking, but to answer your question: No, since it's just an alternative name.

Perhaps we should have a discussion that is somewhat more productive, hm?

OK, I see what you mean.

What do you mean by more productive? Do you mean by taking more tests?

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No offense, Striker Phantom, but it means that you should get out of this topic at the moment.

Since I was forced to do the tests myself because I knew observations could be made, here they are :

Duo Aquario SR200TB - Start wobble 2:47 and 3:05 stop. Start wobble at 3:00 and stopped at 3:15.
Duo Aquario 230TB - Start wobble before 1:00, moved around the centre, 1:50 stop. Good precession, but TB made it shake slightly. Wobbled slightly since the beginning, moved by its own velocity, but really at 2:20, and 2:45 stop. Centre of gravity might have been too high.
Duo Aquario LW160TB - More aggressive, start wobble slightly at 2:10, really at 2:25 and 2:30 stop.
Duo Aquario TH170TB - Moves slightly away around the centre, start wobble at 3:18, scrapes slightly at the end, stops at 3:35. Less able to precess as well.
Duo Aquario 145TB - Wobbles slightly at 1:40, stops at 2:56. Wobbled longer but could not remain upright after really precessing.
Duo Aquario T125TB - Starts to wobble slightly at 1:57, really precesses at 3:00, stops at 3:04.


Clearly, yes, solo spin time does not mean everything, but you can still observe how it acts with time and self imbalance. As long as the solo spin tests' results coincide with what happens in actual Stamina battles, then the solo spin observations are definitely reliable as an after-the-fact.

Obviously, what these solo spin tests tell is that the centre of gravity is just right when TH170 (170) or SR200 are used, whereas any other heights are either way too low that it scrapes, or too high that it cannot remain balanced by itself.

What happens during Stamina battles ? Continual tick-tick imbalances by the opponent, and/or being left alone in the centre until the end where this tick-tick happens. What matters then ? Staying upright, balanced, and resisting those small hits.


So, your "I don't know: it just does better" is not helpful or true at all ...

Obviously, what these solo spin tests tell is that the centre of gravity is just right when TH170 (170) or SR200 are used, whereas any other heights are either way too low that it scrapes, or too high that it cannot remain balanced by itself.

How do you know it's the center of gravity? With a track change, you've also altered the height, weight, aerodynamics, and weight distribution. You are making an assumption. You cannot be sure that what you are saying is true.

Spoiler (Click to View)

1. The fact that it scrapes when it wobbles is not determined by its center of gravity... it is determined by its height.

2. Am I to understand that you don't actually own Genbull? :\ Genbull has a significantly higher/more concentrated center of gravity than Duo, as well as a taller height. The two are completely different. You can't measure Genbull's synergy with TH170/SR200/TB if you're not actually using Genbull.

By the way, I agree with what *Ginga* mentioned : there are way too many uncertainties in this draft. Beywiki is an encyclopedia : either things are tested and confirmed, or if you have no idea, either test it or ask someone to do it for you.

From what I understand, Beywiki does not admit assumptions/uncertainties of any kind, epecially when they are based on flawed test results that don't even use the part you are trying to evaluate.

What happens during Stamina battles ? Continual tick-tick imbalances by the opponent, and/or being left alone in the centre until the end where this tick-tick happens. What matters then ? Staying upright, balanced, and resisting those small hits.

That's not true... RDF has exceptional Balance and resistance to rotational recoil, but it has lower stamina than any other bottom ever released.

You've removed several variables. Other things matter too, like friction with the stadium floor (hence RDF's innefectiveness) and the ability to deliver small hits.

The fact is, solo-spin testing is very, very flawed, and beyblades will behave very, very, very differently with an opponent in the stadium. There are just far too many things that we cannot observe in a solo-spin test that are crucial to evaluating a part's performance against all the different variations of customs out there.

So, your "I don't know: it just does better" is not helpful or true at all ...

I absolutely agree that it isn't helpful in any way, shape, or form; I wish that I knew, however, I don't; but it certainly is true. I don't know how it works well. I can make assumptions to why it does what it does so effectively, but I can't be sure if I'm right or not.

That's my opinion and reasoning. You're Kai-V, you're the boss, and you can obviously put it on the Beywiki if you want, but I just don't feel comfortable posting information for others to read if I'm not sure whether it's accurate or not. :\

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It looks like you forgot your own draft :

==Use in Stamina customization==
Genbull Genbull/Duo Aquario SR200/TH170TB

What was to be evaluated is TB, not Genbull, since that was in the Bottom section. If you are comfortable with placing Genbull Genbull on the same plateau as Duo Aquario because you separated them with a dash, then the effect and their performance should be rather similar.

And yes, I own two Genbull.


And what do weight and height change ? The centre of gravity too. I am not certain why you are so against it ...