Ban Hasbro Bearing?

(Mar. 12, 2019  10:33 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: I was infamous in toronto for my skill with wV and being able to easily beat hS even before dash drivers were a thing (I used bite).  Yesterday i was testing with Kei against hS variants At/Xt/Br on wV X' and i basically had 100% win rate it just gets destroyed.  The only bey that really causes me a decent amount of trouble is pP, that thing is just a tank; i couldn't win with wV at all but pP is a problem of its own LMAO it's the most broken (figuratively not literally like hasbro bearing) thing I've seen since D2.  nL is even better than wV you literally don't need a brain to win with that against hS.

in regards to LAD being out of the question... i just mean it's the combination of both LAD and burst immunity that's the problem not just LAD, you know what i mean? it's like... you can't have half a person, you need the whole person to make a person and in this case you need both LAD and burst immunity to cause an issue which is what hasbro bearing is right now.

Also just cuz I can eXPloit your weight stat doesn't make you completely nullifying a 2 point way of winning okay, it's still an eXPloit and in any online game something that breaks the primary rule of the game would get patched right away.  I used my press driver as an eXample before and i will once again, just because it's a really bad driver doesnt make it okay to use if it's unburstable.  The part isn't op at all but because it breaks a fundamental rule of the game i'm not allowed to use it.

Do you have any recordings of your battles with wV? I would really like to learn how you wreck things with it. I'm comfortable with using attack on Destroy, but not really Xtreme.

And in your opinion, which of these summarized reasons better suit your reasoning to ban B3.Br?
1) B3.Br is undefeatable by any form of attackers, when the best attack type combos should have a decent (non-zero) chance of winning it
2) B3.Br is undefeatable by most nearly all meta beys, and the niche combos that can defeat it are risky to use (and hence seldom used)

(Mar. 12, 2019  10:33 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: it's still an eXPloit and in any online game something that breaks the primary rule of the game would get patched right away
...because it breaks a fundamental rule of the game i'm not allowed to use it.

I actually develop video games, and I can tell you that this isn't always true. In games, sometimes players discover new ways to exploit mechanics and it becomes part of the Core gameplay loop, and enhances gameplay experience. For example, the usage of slash-dash-shoot in Gunz Online. This is a common phenomenon in gamedev dubbed emergent gameplay.

And when you say "primary rule of the game", are you referring to "attack will always win stamina"?
(Mar. 11, 2019  7:13 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: The point is literally going over your head, it's not about the part being OP, it's about it being fundamentally broken in the sense that it doesn't burst, is it really that hard to understand that?  I had a press driver that made beys super tight and unburstable, even though it's a trash driver and it wouldn't help me win; just because of the fact that it didn't burst I wasn't able to use it in tournaments at all.  It's the same scenario with Hasbro bearing, it's not that good of a part and has a hard counter that already has a huge presance in the meta the part is just literally broken.

Just to add on, the excuse of "being a Hasbro only player" is just sad, you're playing a p2w game so you have to be p2w to be relevant lol. Just cuz you refuse to pay a bit more (for better quality and better performance might I add) to import shouldn't be an excuse to be against a bearing ban.  Really don't understand being a hasbro only player at all, buying pretty trash tier products and it being so easy to get things off the internet now a days makes 0 sense to me, but hey to each their own; don't mind me I'll just p2w to get the OP Japanese parts while you spend your money on this trash American company smile.

Not everyone has the same money as you right? Like for me I can't buy a beyblade all the time cause my parents want me to learn money management so I'm using my own money. Also Hasbro bearing isn't overpowered. It's actually has a disadvantage against left spin attack types. Also you just used an insult at Hasbro so you use all credibility because you can't post facts. Try again. Also how come Hasbro is trash when they improved balkesh slopes?

(Jan. 12, 2019  6:08 PM)ks123 Wrote: Hasbro Br is very strong Stamina driver, but I think it should only be banned in First Stage. In Final Stage (Deck Format), can only be 1 Br in the Deck, and so I think it can be used there.

We could easily solve this by banning it only in a burst limited format. If we have a burst limited format then there would be no need to ban it.
(Mar. 12, 2019  6:35 AM)1234beyblade Wrote:
(Mar. 12, 2019  5:47 AM)KingSpin Wrote: Does hS.Xt+ similarly have an auto win against opposite spin? And also have a negligible chance of bursting to nL.X'?

dunno about you but i have an easy time with hS on any setup with both wV and nL.  That's just not possible against hasbro bearing though, i solely have to rely on a knockout and have no hope of getting a burst.  I had a small discussion with Kei and i completely forgot that burst is now worth 2 points in first stage, it's actually ridiculous that you can completely evade that by simply using a broken piece that makes your bey unburstable.  Like it's actually unfair, even cho-z stuff bursts sometimes and those have a gimmick to not burst, but this thing... never seen it pop once.  

The opposite spin "auto win" is out of the question, that's not what is being discussed here. It doesn't matter if the piece is op or not, this is only focusing on the fact that you have a bey that has the LAD of an hS combo while also being unburstable.
Bro, just ban B3 already. B3 is the only layer that becomes unburstable on Br. The reason being that B3 is already unburstable. I tried dC3 on Br and I got burst by a pretty much stock aC at BtB.
(Mar. 12, 2019  3:57 PM)#Fafnir Wrote: I found a counter to B3 0 br.

What does gk stand for.
Looking at this thread I've seen H.Bearing tested with SrS3/B3/G3/[H]dF against attack and showing unburstable. Looking at the Burst Customization Hasbro layer threads, I'm mostly seeing stamina v. stamina matches so maybe players with those layers can test them + H.Bearing against attack combos? I feel like more data with Turbo layers and older Hasbro layers can give us more to discuss. 

If after more data H.Bearing is like 1234beyblade's unburstable Press with everything, then yeah ban it. But if it only makes the already good layers unburstable and the arguably worse layers actually somewhat competitive, then I think conditional restriction would be enough. We'd get rid of the main problem while leaving the possibility open for players to use Hasbro combinations that they otherwise wouldn't even try before. And if it ends up with nobody using those crappier H.Bearing combos and it falls out of competitive use, you effectively get the same result as a flat out ban without creating the feeling of hard impacting Hasbro players. 


Maybe create a Restricted Combinations section to the rules (that can be reevaluated X times per year as new parts get added to the available pool) and add B3 and H.Bearing to the list. Kill off the specific combos while leaving parts available to spur innovation. Some combinations may get added and then removed later and some may stay on the list forever. 

Something like (it seems I can't do sub-bullets otherwise I'd just have H. Bearing as the main bullet with the other layers as subs):
Restricted Combinations List
  • [Hasbro] Bearing + [Hasbro] Balkesh B3
  • [Hasbro] Bearing + [Hasbro] Spryzen Requiem S3
  • [Hasbro] Bearing + [Hasbro] Fafnir F3
  • [Hasbro] Bearing + [Hasbro] Garuda G3
  • [Hasbro] Atomic + [Hasbro] Balkesh B3 (Maybe? I think I read somewhere that someone said that B3 is similarly unburstable with this combo; this is an example anyway)
**On that note, a similar list with periodic revision could be used for overused combos so competitive players are spurred to try new combinations when the optimal go-to option is unavailable.
(Mar. 12, 2019  6:43 PM)EmrysTal Wrote: Looking at this thread I've seen H.Bearing tested with SrS3/B3/G3/[H]dF against attack and showing unburstable. Looking at the Burst Customization Hasbro layer threads, I'm mostly seeing stamina v. stamina matches so maybe players with those layers can test them + H.Bearing against attack combos? I feel like more data with Turbo layers and older Hasbro layers can give us more to discuss. 

If after more data H.Bearing is like 1234beyblade's unburstable Press with everything, then yeah ban it. But if it only makes the already good layers unburstable and the arguably worse layers actually somewhat competitive, then I think conditional restriction would be enough. We'd get rid of the main problem while leaving the possibility open for players to use Hasbro combinations that they otherwise wouldn't even try before. And if it ends up with nobody using those crappier H.Bearing combos and it falls out of competitive use, you effectively get the same result as a flat out ban without creating the feeling of hard impacting Hasbro players. 


Maybe create a Restricted Combinations section to the rules (that can be reevaluated X times per year as new parts get added to the available pool) and add B3 and H.Bearing to the list. Kill off the specific combos while leaving parts available to spur innovation. Some combinations may get added and then removed later and some may stay on the list forever. 

Something like (it seems I can't do sub-bullets otherwise I'd just have H. Bearing as the main bullet with the other layers as subs):
Restricted Combinations List
  • [Hasbro] Bearing + [Hasbro] Balkesh B3
  • [Hasbro] Bearing + [Hasbro] Spryzen Requiem S3
  • [Hasbro] Bearing + [Hasbro] Fafnir F3
  • [Hasbro] Bearing + [Hasbro] Garuda G3
  • [Hasbro] Atomic + [Hasbro] Balkesh B3 (Maybe? I think I read somewhere that someone said that B3 is similarly unburstable with this combo)
**On that note, a similar list with periodic revision could be used for overused combos so competitive players are spurred to try new combinations when the optimal go-to option is unavailable.

Which means if they wanted a lad combo with spryzen Requiem there would need to use revolve, atomic,eternal, and xtend. Because xtend Hasbro has lad. One thing is that if that restrictions work, balkesh will probably become outclassed. Also with the cho z awakened beys, Most Hasbro layers are outclassed against chozetsu layers. Which means that they might have to use turbo layers with no metal to even stand a chance. Therefore you would see a high use of the 0/00 disc and bump because of it's weight.
But I agree, let's not ban bearing but put on restrictions on what combos it can be used on.
If parts become outclassed due to having certain combinations restricted then that means the list is working as intended to eliminate outliers that would negatively impact the meta and revealing the true competitive value of those parts. The parts would still be available to be trial and error'd with other available and upcoming parts and could result in future competitive non-gamebreaking combos.
(Mar. 12, 2019  9:11 PM)EmrysTal Wrote: If parts become outclassed due to having certain combinations restricted then that means the list is working as intended to eliminate outliers that would negatively impact the meta and revealing the true competitive value of those parts. The parts would still be available to be trial and error'd with other available and upcoming parts and could result in future competitive non-gamebreaking combos.

For me I lost access to Hasbro bearing once.
I have it now but to at least give it the same effect I used spryzen Requiem 7 under xtend-s.

Also there is something about bearing. The bearing tip can break on Hasbro with enough of hard hits. It makes It moves faster when hard launching but it reduces lad. 

I'm worried about it Because I used b3 0 bump bearing to win 3rd place in a tournament. Even though I have Salmander I need a cho-z awakening bey and the only left rotation one is cho-z Spriggan.
(Mar. 12, 2019  12:30 PM)DreamBlade Wrote:
(Mar. 11, 2019  7:13 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: The point is literally going over your head, it's not about the part being OP, it's about it being fundamentally broken in the sense that it doesn't burst, is it really that hard to understand that?  I had a press driver that made beys super tight and unburstable, even though it's a trash driver and it wouldn't help me win; just because of the fact that it didn't burst I wasn't able to use it in tournaments at all.  It's the same scenario with Hasbro bearing, it's not that good of a part and has a hard counter that already has a huge presance in the meta the part is just literally broken.

Just to add on, the excuse of "being a Hasbro only player" is just sad, you're playing a p2w game so you have to be p2w to be relevant lol. Just cuz you refuse to pay a bit more (for better quality and better performance might I add) to import shouldn't be an excuse to be against a bearing ban.  Really don't understand being a hasbro only player at all, buying pretty trash tier products and it being so easy to get things off the internet now a days makes 0 sense to me, but hey to each their own; don't mind me I'll just p2w to get the OP Japanese parts while you spend your money on this trash American company smile.

Not everyone has the same money as you right? Like for me I can't buy a beyblade all the time cause my parents want me to learn money management so I'm using my own money. Also Hasbro bearing isn't overpowered. It's actually has a disadvantage against left spin attack types. Also you just used an insult at Hasbro so you use all credibility because you can't post facts. Try again. Also how come Hasbro is trash when they improved balkesh slopes?

(Jan. 12, 2019  6:08 PM)ks123 Wrote: Hasbro Br is very strong Stamina driver, but I think it should only be banned in First Stage. In Final Stage (Deck Format), can only be 1 Br in the Deck, and so I think it can be used there.

We could easily solve this by banning it only in a burst limited format. If we have a burst limited format then there would be no need to ban it.
You have to understand that saying "I cant buy a beyblade all the time cause my parents want me to learn money management" isnt a relevant argument at all. Arguments should not have any emotions in them. Beyblade is pay to win. Deal with it.
(Mar. 12, 2019  12:30 PM)DreamBlade Wrote:
(Mar. 11, 2019  7:13 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: The point is literally going over your head, it's not about the part being OP, it's about it being fundamentally broken in the sense that it doesn't burst, is it really that hard to understand that?  I had a press driver that made beys super tight and unburstable, even though it's a trash driver and it wouldn't help me win; just because of the fact that it didn't burst I wasn't able to use it in tournaments at all.  It's the same scenario with Hasbro bearing, it's not that good of a part and has a hard counter that already has a huge presance in the meta the part is just literally broken.

Just to add on, the excuse of "being a Hasbro only player" is just sad, you're playing a p2w game so you have to be p2w to be relevant lol. Just cuz you refuse to pay a bit more (for better quality and better performance might I add) to import shouldn't be an excuse to be against a bearing ban.  Really don't understand being a hasbro only player at all, buying pretty trash tier products and it being so easy to get things off the internet now a days makes 0 sense to me, but hey to each their own; don't mind me I'll just p2w to get the OP Japanese parts while you spend your money on this trash American company smile.

Not everyone has the same money as you right? Like for me I can't buy a beyblade all the time cause my parents want me to learn money management so I'm using my own money. Also Hasbro bearing isn't overpowered. It's actually has a disadvantage against left spin attack types. Also you just used an insult at Hasbro so you use all credibility because you can't post facts. Try again. Also how come Hasbro is trash when they improved balkesh slopes?

Oh im sorry, i didn't know that hasbro being lesser of quality than takara tomy isn't a fact, wow, you got me there.  I will insult hasbro as much as it takes for them to start caring about the products they release and stop caring about their god damn revenue.  Ever since hasbro came out all the old players that played TT were turned off immediately because of how trash their product was and honestly hasbro was the sole reason why i stopped playing for a few months, their product is garbage and just cuz they made 1 LITERALLY broken bey doesnt help the case of them being a bad company at all.

(Mar. 12, 2019  11:00 AM)KingSpin Wrote:
(Mar. 12, 2019  10:33 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: I was infamous in toronto for my skill with wV and being able to easily beat hS even before dash drivers were a thing (I used bite).  Yesterday i was testing with Kei against hS variants At/Xt/Br on wV X' and i basically had 100% win rate it just gets destroyed.  The only bey that really causes me a decent amount of trouble is pP, that thing is just a tank; i couldn't win with wV at all but pP is a problem of its own LMAO it's the most broken (figuratively not literally like hasbro bearing) thing I've seen since D2.  nL is even better than wV you literally don't need a brain to win with that against hS.

in regards to LAD being out of the question... i just mean it's the combination of both LAD and burst immunity that's the problem not just LAD, you know what i mean? it's like... you can't have half a person, you need the whole person to make a person and in this case you need both LAD and burst immunity to cause an issue which is what hasbro bearing is right now.

Also just cuz I can eXPloit your weight stat doesn't make you completely nullifying a 2 point way of winning okay, it's still an eXPloit and in any online game something that breaks the primary rule of the game would get patched right away.  I used my press driver as an eXample before and i will once again, just because it's a really bad driver doesnt make it okay to use if it's unburstable.  The part isn't op at all but because it breaks a fundamental rule of the game i'm not allowed to use it.

Do you have any recordings of your battles with wV? I would really like to learn how you wreck things with it. I'm comfortable with using attack on Destroy, but not really Xtreme.

And in your opinion, which of these summarized reasons better suit your reasoning to ban B3.Br?
1) B3.Br is undefeatable by any form of attackers, when the best attack type combos should have a decent (non-zero) chance of winning it
2) B3.Br is undefeatable by most nearly all meta beys, and the niche combos that can defeat it are risky to use (and hence seldom used)

(Mar. 12, 2019  10:33 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: it's still an eXPloit and in any online game something that breaks the primary rule of the game would get patched right away
...because it breaks a fundamental rule of the game i'm not allowed to use it.

I actually develop video games, and I can tell you that this isn't always true. In games, sometimes players discover new ways to exploit mechanics and it becomes part of the Core gameplay loop, and enhances gameplay experience. For example, the usage of slash-dash-shoot in Gunz Online. This is a common phenomenon in gamedev dubbed emergent gameplay.

And when you say "primary rule of the game", are you referring to "attack will always win stamina"?

Unless the beychannel posted some of my matches from the finals where i used wV Bite there is no record of it aside from the winning combos lists.  I can try to eXplain how to use it with Xtreme though, it's really simple actually.  You do about a 15 degree angle launch parallel  to the ground your stadium is sitting on, you aim right about where the stadium walls are and you just launch as hard as you can -10-20%.  Launch speed is subjective so i cant really help you there but when i use it i basically go all out.

none of those 2 reasons are my reason to ban B3.Br, try this,
B3.Br is unburstable.

My life revolves around competitive gaming, so I know a few things about broken and fair gameplay elements.  sure Gunz has tech that adds to the skill of the gameplay which is good and i think it shouldn't be patched but that doesnt relate to the problem we have in beyblade.  This bey takes away skill and adds to the brain dead nature of spamming stamina/defense hybrid beys, i would be completely ok with this bey if it was burstable but it's not.  I honestly dont know how im not making myself clear that NOT BURSTING IS NOT OK.  That's the primary rule of the game im referring to, the win condition of burst is completely removed by this bey, hello? am i the only one seeing this? 

regardless, i've stated my opinion on this multiple times now, i could care less if it gets banned or not because i can outplay this without a sweat, doesnt matter to me.  I'm just looking at the situation objectively.
So, I did some actually fair testing with hasbro Br. Keep in mind, this is a thread talking about Br, not B3 which is honestly broken and everyone is cherry picking the B3 Br combos to show it is broken. Honestly, just ban B3 at this point, It kinda makes me mad that people keep using B3 to inflate Br's power.
Here we go.

Test 1:
L3.C.X VS F3.10C.Br (F3 launched first, ties redone)

F3 Win Rate: 35% (OS: 7, KO: 0, BST: )
L3 Win Rate: 65% (OS: 0, KO: 5, BST: 8)

Test 2:
L3.C.Fr-S VS F3.0C.Br (F3 launched first, ties redone)

F3 Win Rate: 35% (OS: 6, KO: 1, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 65% (OS: 0, KO: 4, BST: 9)


Test 3:
SrS3(Right).10C.Br VS wV.7V.O (alternating launches, ties redone)

wV Win Rate: 80% (OS: 7, KO: 4, BST: 4)
SrS3 Win Rate: 20% (OS: 2, KO: 2, BST: 0)


Test 4:
G3.10C.Br VS wV.7V.W (G3 launched first, ties redone)

wV Win Rate: 55% (OS: 0, KO: 0, BST: 11)
G3 Win Rate: 45% (OS: 9, KO: 0, BST: 0)
(Mar. 13, 2019  1:14 AM)bladekid Wrote: So, I did some actually fair testing with hasbro Br. Keep in mind, this is a thread talking about Br, not B3 which is honestly broken and everyone is cherry picking the B3 Br combos to show it is broken. Honestly, just ban B3 at this point, It kinda makes me mad that people keep using B3 to inflate Br's power.
Here we go.

Test 1:
L3.C.X VS F3.10C.Br (F3 launched first, ties redone)

F3 Win Rate: 35% (OS: 7, KO: 0, BST: )
L3 Win Rate: 65% (OS: 0, KO: 5, BST: 8)

Test 2:
L3.C.Fr-S VS F3.0C.Br (F3 launched first, ties redone)

F3 Win Rate: 35% (OS: 6, KO: 1, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 65% (OS: 0, KO: 4, BST: 9)


Test 3:
SrS3®.10C.Br VS wV.7V.O (alternating launches, ties redone)

wV Win Rate: 80% (OS: 7, KO: 4, BST: 4)
SrS3 Win Rate: 20% (OS: 2, KO: 2, BST: 0)


Test 4:
G3.10C.Br VS wV.7V.W (G3 launched first, ties redone)

wV Win Rate: 55% (OS: 0, KO: 0, BST: 11)
G3 Win Rate: 45% (OS: 9, KO: 0, BST: 0)
Exactly! We should just ban aB3! These test are great!
The biggest point I hear from Kei and 1234beyblade that goes uncontested is that regardless of how good Hasbro's Bearing is, and it is very good in opposite-spin Stamina matches, the biggest reason it should be banned is because it is unintentionally un-burstable when used on certain Hasbro Layers. Is that the basic argument?

If so, I am inclined to agree with the position that it is a fundamentally broken part, assuming we are using Takara-Tomy's Bearing as the standard for how we judge a Bearing-like Performance Tip ought to perform, the precedent if you will. However, this version of the part is consistent in its nature across all releases by Hasbro, so it cannot be fairly compared to a single instance of a different part that was similarly improved in burst-resistance from an error in another company's manufacturing.

Hasbro's Burst products have a vivid track record of deviating from the standards set by their Takara-Tomy counterparts, admittedly for better and for worse. We treat the Layers as being distinct from their Takara-Tomy counterparts because we acknowledge that, for all their physical similarities, the parts still perform differently in tests and tournaments from each other and should therefore be distinguished between.

But in our tournament winning combos, we overlook those differences in brand beyond the names of Layers. Instead, we favor and continue using Takara's more intuitive Disc and Driver nomenclature for the rest of Hasbro's parts, which are as, if not more, frequently divergent from their Takara-Tomy counterparts in terms of performance, visual appearance, and material quality.

The evidence above suggests Hasbro simply redesigned their Bearing-like Performance Tip to perform the way it does: to be tighter than some of their other Tips, like Takara-Tomy's dash Drivers, but not at all advertised as being so, very much in keeping with the Hasbro Beyblade tradition. It's not so different from how they redesigned their Eternal or Yard Performance Tips to perform differently from their Takara counterparts.

Was Hasbro's modification to Bearing from Takara's a good idea?

Not really.

But has it really affected the metagame all that significantly or negatively?

Again, not really.

So the issue here cannot be that Hasbro's Bearing-like Performance Tip is "fundamentally broken," because it's clearly not put a dent in competitive play. It's that we are judging the part by the standards of another company's product when it ought to be judged by the standards set by the product of the company that produced the part in question. When we do, we see that it's not unusual for Hasbro to change the performance of their parts from their original Takara-Tomy counterparts.

To remove a part from tournament play because it's demonstrated itself to be a serious threat to metagame diversity is one thing, but Hasbro's Bearing with Balkesh B3 really doesn't fit that bill. When it's biggest weaknesses are same-spin Stamina and Perfect Phoenix, of which both are prevalent and increasingly so, this part in its seemingly problematic combination seems only to fill a niche as an Archer Hercules and opposite-spin Spriggan killer, a role which numerous Attackers presently excel in as well.
Question can Takara Tomy disc frames work with Hasbro forge disc?
(Mar. 13, 2019  1:54 AM)Bobwaffle Wrote: Question can Takara Tomy disc frames work with Hasbro forge disc?

Yeah Smile
(Mar. 13, 2019  12:26 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: Unless the beychannel posted some of my matches from the finals where i used wV Bite there is no record of it aside from the winning combos lists.  I can try to eXplain how to use it with Xtreme though, it's really simple actually.  You do about a 15 degree angle launch parallel  to the ground your stadium is sitting on, you aim right about where the stadium walls are and you just launch as hard as you can -10-20%.  Launch speed is subjective so i cant really help you there but when i use it i basically go all out.

What's the difference between this and a banking shoot? Is it the specific angle? Or the launch location?

(Mar. 13, 2019  12:26 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: none of those 2 reasons are my reason to ban B3.Br, try this,
B3.Br is unburstable.

My life revolves around competitive gaming, so I know a few things about broken and fair gameplay elements.  sure Gunz has tech that adds to the skill of the gameplay which is good and i think it shouldn't be patched but that doesnt relate to the problem we have in beyblade. 

I think the detractors against the ban are arguing based on the fact that B3.Br does not break the meta (AKA not OP), while you are arguing that it should be banned because it breaks a "holy law" that you think Beyblade Burst should have. If you read prior arguments against the ban, you'll see that they aren't arguing with you on the same wavelength.

In competitive video games, exploitative mechanics are patched out *only* if they
1) Force everyone to use the same mechanic or else they have little/no chance of winning at all
2) AND in addition to forcing everyone to use the mechanic, the usage of the mechanic is unfun
In this case, the latter part of (2) is somewhat true. However, not everyone is being forced to use this B3.Br for a chance to win - in fact, you'll have greater chance by using the typical hS/aH/pP combos.

(Mar. 13, 2019  12:26 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: This bey takes away skill and adds to the brain dead nature of spamming stamina/defense hybrid beys, i would be completely ok with this bey if it was burstable but it's not.  I honestly dont know how im not making myself clear that NOT BURSTING IS NOT OK.  That's the primary rule of the game im referring to, the win condition of burst is completely removed by this bey, hello? am i the only one seeing this? 

I think the reason why the opinions are divided is because not every one agrees on this viewpoint that it should never burst. If they did, then you won't be seeing this huge pushback. Like I said earlier, most people against the ban are arguing based on the fact that its not OP - and hence shouldn't be banned.

It would be one thing to ban parts based on how they're overpowered and would dominate the meta, and another thing to ban it because it doesn't fit the ideology that some people have in mind.

Maybe the people who want to convince you otherwise, should convince you against that viewpoint, instead of arguing based on the fact that it's not overpowered Smile
So I decided to test the same combos I used against the Br combos against TT combos just to set a benchmark for the TT beys.


Test 1:
L3.C.X VS hS.10.Et (hS launched first, ties redone)

hS Win Rate: 65% (OS: 13, KO: 0, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 35% (OS: 0, KO: 3, BST: 4)

Test 2:
L3.C.Fr-S VS hS.10.Et (hS launched first, ties redone)

hS Win Rate: 65% (OS: 8, KO: 5, BST: 0)
L3 Win Rate: 35% (OS: 0, KO: 3, BST: 4)


Test 3:
aH.10.Et VS wV.7V.W (aH launched first, ties redone)

wV Win Rate: 25% (OS: 1, KO: 1, BST: 3)
aH Win Rate: 75% (OS: 15, KO: 0, BST: 0)
(Mar. 13, 2019  12:26 AM)1234beyblade Wrote:
(Mar. 12, 2019  12:30 PM)DreamBlade Wrote: Not everyone has the same money as you right? Like for me I can't buy a beyblade all the time cause my parents want me to learn money management so I'm using my own money. Also Hasbro bearing isn't overpowered. It's actually has a disadvantage against left spin attack types. Also you just used an insult at Hasbro so you use all credibility because you can't post facts. Try again. Also how come Hasbro is trash when they improved balkesh slopes?

Oh im sorry, i didn't know that hasbro being lesser of quality than takara tomy isn't a fact, wow, you got me there.  I will insult hasbro as much as it takes for them to start caring about the products they release and stop caring about their god damn revenue.  Ever since hasbro came out all the old players that played TT were turned off immediately because of how trash their product was and honestly hasbro was the sole reason why i stopped playing for a few months, their product is garbage and just cuz they made 1 LITERALLY broken bey doesnt help the case of them being a bad company at all.

(Mar. 12, 2019  11:00 AM)KingSpin Wrote: Do you have any recordings of your battles with wV? I would really like to learn how you wreck things with it. I'm comfortable with using attack on Destroy, but not really Xtreme.

And in your opinion, which of these summarized reasons better suit your reasoning to ban B3.Br?
1) B3.Br is undefeatable by any form of attackers, when the best attack type combos should have a decent (non-zero) chance of winning it
2) B3.Br is undefeatable by most nearly all meta beys, and the niche combos that can defeat it are risky to use (and hence seldom used)


I actually develop video games, and I can tell you that this isn't always true. In games, sometimes players discover new ways to exploit mechanics and it becomes part of the Core gameplay loop, and enhances gameplay experience. For example, the usage of slash-dash-shoot in Gunz Online. This is a common phenomenon in gamedev dubbed emergent gameplay.

And when you say "primary rule of the game", are you referring to "attack will always win stamina"?

Unless the beychannel posted some of my matches from the finals where i used wV Bite there is no record of it aside from the winning combos lists.  I can try to eXplain how to use it with Xtreme though, it's really simple actually.  You do about a 15 degree angle launch parallel  to the ground your stadium is sitting on, you aim right about where the stadium walls are and you just launch as hard as you can -10-20%.  Launch speed is subjective so i cant really help you there but when i use it i basically go all out.

none of those 2 reasons are my reason to ban B3.Br, try this,
B3.Br is unburstable.

My life revolves around competitive gaming, so I know a few things about broken and fair gameplay elements.  sure Gunz has tech that adds to the skill of the gameplay which is good and i think it shouldn't be patched but that doesnt relate to the problem we have in beyblade.  This bey takes away skill and adds to the brain dead nature of spamming stamina/defense hybrid beys, i would be completely ok with this bey if it was burstable but it's not.  I honestly dont know how im not making myself clear that NOT BURSTING IS NOT OK.  That's the primary rule of the game im referring to, the win condition of burst is completely removed by this bey, hello? am i the only one seeing this? 

regardless, i've stated my opinion on this multiple times now, i could care less if it gets banned or not because i can outplay this without a sweat, doesnt matter to me.  I'm just looking at the situation objectively.

So you want Hasbro to re release some horrible TT parts so it's not trash to you? Do you even know how buisnesses work? Hasbro uses softer plastic so it has less chances of breaking. Just banning bearing altogether would make the Hasbro god series outclassed. I'd rather put restrictions on what combos it can be on. Like balkesh, garuda,fafnir,and spryzen. Balkesh 0 bump bearing is almost unbeatable. I bursted it one time. When I used it in my first tournament I got 3rd place just with that bey in the first stage. Fafnir on bearing is burstable because of the hard rubber. Spryzen Requiem, maybe but it depends. Do some research before preaching hate.

(Mar. 12, 2019  11:45 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Mar. 12, 2019  12:30 PM)DreamBlade Wrote: Not everyone has the same money as you right? Like for me I can't buy a beyblade all the time cause my parents want me to learn money management so I'm using my own money. Also Hasbro bearing isn't overpowered. It's actually has a disadvantage against left spin attack types. Also you just used an insult at Hasbro so you use all credibility because you can't post facts. Try again. Also how come Hasbro is trash when they improved balkesh slopes?


We could easily solve this by banning it only in a burst limited format. If we have a burst limited format then there would be no need to ban it.
You have to understand that saying "I cant buy a beyblade all the time cause my parents want me to learn money management" isnt a relevant argument at all. Arguments should not have any emotions in them. Beyblade is pay to win. Deal with it.

the other reason why I'm complaining about it is that I won with the combo of balkesh b3 bearing in 3rd place and it makes me look like a joke and that it had no value. In which to tell you pisses me off.
so then isnt the problem the tournament structure and not overpowering left combos? I honestly think its a problem of single prelim rounds having no real skill at this point, since theres not a combo that factors enough skill into deciding who actually won that round of 3 because there was a better player (outside of building the combo itself)
(Mar. 13, 2019  4:35 AM)DreamBlade Wrote: So you want Hasbro to re release some horrible TT parts so it's not trash to you? Do you even know how buisnesses work? Hasbro uses softer plastic so it has less chances of breaking. Just banning bearing altogether would make the Hasbro god series outclassed. I'd rather put restrictions on what combos it can be on. Like balkesh, garuda,fafnir,and spryzen. Balkesh 0 bump bearing is almost unbeatable. I bursted it one time. When I used it in my first tournament I got 3rd place just with that bey in the first stage. Fafnir on bearing is burstable because of the hard rubber. Spryzen Requiem, maybe but it depends. Do some research before preaching hate.


how can you say "rerelease horrible TT parts" when hasbro is irrelevant and has been irrelevant the whole time since they released their garbage soft beys lmao (and no dont use the crappy broken bearing as an excuse to say hasbro is relevant because the only reason it is, is cuz of some stupid decision to make bearing like 10 times harder to burst than the original release.. OMG I JUST REMEMBERED, THEIR NEW SERIES IS PLASTIC NOT METAL WHAT A JOKE. hasbro is bad period. only in it for the money, they dont care about good products).  Their product is a joke, even in classic format hasbro doesn't compete with TT parts.  The examples you provided me all are variants of the crappy bearing combo, dont put me to sleep, give me some attack combos or anything aside from hasbro bearing combos, oh wait there isnt any OMEGALUL.

I literally don't understand what hasbro is thinking it started going down hill at the end of MFB they screwed around with the original releases and made their own garbage touches to the products (that being the beginning of metal fury where they made their beys hallow for cheaper production and more profit, it's actually disgusting).  Clearly hasbro just wants to exploit kids and not make good products like they use to with early mfb and plastic gen idk anyone that's a blader from at least 10 years ago that agrees with the fact that hasbro products now a days are good.

Either way this is off topic, so if you want to continue our argument don't reply here and pm me instead.
(Mar. 13, 2019  7:42 AM)1234beyblade Wrote:
(Mar. 13, 2019  4:35 AM)DreamBlade Wrote: So you want Hasbro to re release some horrible TT parts so it's not trash to you? Do you even know how buisnesses work? Hasbro uses softer plastic so it has less chances of breaking. Just banning bearing altogether would make the Hasbro god series outclassed. I'd rather put restrictions on what combos it can be on. Like balkesh, garuda,fafnir,and spryzen. Balkesh 0 bump bearing is almost unbeatable. I bursted it one time. When I used it in my first tournament I got 3rd place just with that bey in the first stage. Fafnir on bearing is burstable because of the hard rubber. Spryzen Requiem, maybe but it depends. Do some research before preaching hate.


how can you say "rerelease horrible TT parts" when hasbro is irrelevant and has been irrelevant the whole time since they released their garbage soft beys lmao (and no dont use the crappy broken bearing as an excuse to say hasbro is relevant because the only reason it is, is cuz of some stupid decision to make bearing like 10 times harder to burst than the original release.. OMG I JUST REMEMBERED, THEIR NEW SERIES IS PLASTIC NOT METAL WHAT A JOKE. hasbro is bad period. only in it for the money, they dont care about good products).  Their product is a joke, even in classic format hasbro doesn't compete with TT parts.  The examples you provided me all are variants of the crappy bearing combo, dont put me to sleep, give me some attack combos or anything aside from hasbro bearing combos, oh wait there isnt any OMEGALUL.

I literally don't understand what hasbro is thinking it started going down hill at the end of MFB they screwed around with the original releases and made their own garbage touches to the products (that being the beginning of metal fury where they made their beys hallow for cheaper production and more profit, it's actually disgusting).  Clearly hasbro just wants to exploit kids and not make good products like they use to with early mfb and plastic gen idk anyone that's a blader from at least 10 years ago that agrees with the fact that hasbro products now a days are good.

Either way this is off topic, so if you want to continue our argument don't reply here and pm me instead.
Dude, this is the Ban Br thread, not the hate on hasbro thread. I'm glad you acknowledged it as off topic but still. I don't see why you feel the need to hate on hasbro, we all know the turbo layers are trash what's your point? Honestly, there are other combos besides Br combos, they are just more risk for the same reward. I could go with L3.C.X to beat an hS, but if they use aH I lose. I could go with dC3.10F.O(or maybe Yr-S forgot which has better stamina) to deal with aH, but if they use hS I lose. I personally would rather chose the opp spin and less risky combo and so would most people. But on the topic, I don't get why you say Br is unburstable, it is clearly not the case. I don't know why this is such a discussion for you, just ban B3 already. Anyone who tests Br on B3 in hopes of bursting it is wrong, even on the hasbro revolve, a tip that makes hasbro J2 burst as much TT J2, B3 still doesn't have any slope movement. I'll say this again, JUST BAN BALKESH B3 ALREADY! I honestly hate B3 because people that want hasbro Br banned just cherry pick the B3 Br combo to show the Br doesn't burst. As my testing shows, the hasbro combos that I tested on Br (including F3, SrS3, and G3) burst more that the TT combos I tried (hS and aH) so just ban B3 and please, shut up about Br being unburstable because it really isnt at all. If I can use one of the only viable attack combos I have, wV on W and burst G3 on Br, then it is not unburstable. Thank you for your time.
(Mar. 12, 2019  4:53 PM)DreamBlade Wrote:
(Mar. 12, 2019  3:57 PM)#Fafnir Wrote: I found a counter to B3 0 br.

What does gk stand for.

DreamBlade , gK stands for Guardian Kerbeus
(Mar. 13, 2019  3:33 AM)KingSpin Wrote:
(Mar. 13, 2019  12:26 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: Unless the beychannel posted some of my matches from the finals where i used wV Bite there is no record of it aside from the winning combos lists.  I can try to eXplain how to use it with Xtreme though, it's really simple actually.  You do about a 15 degree angle launch parallel  to the ground your stadium is sitting on, you aim right about where the stadium walls are and you just launch as hard as you can -10-20%.  Launch speed is subjective so i cant really help you there but when i use it i basically go all out.

What's the difference between this and a banking shoot? Is it the specific angle? Or the launch location?

(Mar. 13, 2019  12:26 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: none of those 2 reasons are my reason to ban B3.Br, try this,
B3.Br is unburstable.

My life revolves around competitive gaming, so I know a few things about broken and fair gameplay elements.  sure Gunz has tech that adds to the skill of the gameplay which is good and i think it shouldn't be patched but that doesnt relate to the problem we have in beyblade. 

I think the detractors against the ban are arguing based on the fact that B3.Br does not break the meta (AKA not OP), while you are arguing that it should be banned because it breaks a "holy law" that you think Beyblade Burst should have. If you read prior arguments against the ban, you'll see that they aren't arguing with you on the same wavelength.

In competitive video games, exploitative mechanics are patched out *only* if they
1) Force everyone to use the same mechanic or else they have little/no chance of winning at all
2) AND in addition to forcing everyone to use the mechanic, the usage of the mechanic is unfun
In this case, the latter part of (2) is somewhat true. However, not everyone is being forced to use this B3.Br for a chance to win - in fact, you'll have greater chance by using the typical hS/aH/pP combos.

(Mar. 13, 2019  12:26 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: This bey takes away skill and adds to the brain dead nature of spamming stamina/defense hybrid beys, i would be completely ok with this bey if it was burstable but it's not.  I honestly dont know how im not making myself clear that NOT BURSTING IS NOT OK.  That's the primary rule of the game im referring to, the win condition of burst is completely removed by this bey, hello? am i the only one seeing this? 

I think the reason why the opinions are divided is because not every one agrees on this viewpoint that it should never burst. If they did, then you won't be seeing this huge pushback. Like I said earlier, most people against the ban are arguing based on the fact that its not OP - and hence shouldn't be banned.

It would be one thing to ban parts based on how they're overpowered and would dominate the meta, and another thing to ban it because it doesn't fit the ideology that some people have in mind.

Maybe the people who want to convince you otherwise, should convince you against that viewpoint, instead of arguing based on the fact that it's not overpowered Smile

Bank shot is 35 degree angle and it makes your bey go in a stupid pattern on X' that wastes all of its energy, the method I posted is simply to avoid that and get as much speed as possible while also having a chance to hit the middle.  Classic bank shot is still better on old X and J'.

Yeah I realize that not everyone thinks like me which is why I've already stated I won't argue anymore cuz my opinion is already known, as you said, it's not OP and I could care less if it's banned or not, I can still probably delete most people who use that combo with attack as it's so light but it avoiding a 2 point win condition is kinda annoying esp when it's better counterpart (hS) bursts so easily against attackers (wV and nL).
(Mar. 13, 2019  2:41 PM)1234beyblade Wrote: Bank shot is 35 degree angle and it makes your bey go in a stupid pattern on X' that wastes all of its energy, the method I posted is simply to avoid that and get as much speed as possible while also having a chance to hit the middle.  Classic bank shot is still better on old X and J'.

Yeah I realize that not everyone thinks like me which is why I've already stated I won't argue anymore cuz my opinion is already known, as you said, it's not OP and I could care less if it's banned or not, I can still probably delete most people who use that combo with attack as it's so light but it avoiding a 2 point win condition is kinda annoying esp when it's better counterpart (hS) bursts so easily against attackers (wV and nL).

Thanks! Will definitely try it with X' on my next tournament here.

I hope the final decision will take into account everyone's sentiments. This topic is a really polarizing one.