(Jan. 01, 2019  1:52 AM)Wombat Wrote: Did some testing that @[kjrules17] wanted me to do, since he currently can't meet up with @[LazerBeamz]. Since we already know that Spryzen Requiem's light weight and higher recoil design means it can't compete with Hell Salamander or Archer Hercules in same spin matchups, the only reason to leave it banned would be if its defensive potential was that much greater than either hS or aH.

First, I did a benchmark of bL KO Attack vs hS:
Bloody Longinus 8Under Xtreme' vs Hell Salamander 0Wall Bearing
bL.8U.X': 15 wins (4 KO, 1 OS, 10 Burst)
hS.0W.Br: 5 wins (all OS)
hS.0W.Br win rate: 25%
This matchup was fun to test, but it was a pain to have to re-assemble hS the correct way every 10 seconds lol. When I got the launch right, most of the bursts happened in one hit or were simultaneous burst/KOs.

Bloody Longinus 8Under Xtreme' vs Spryzen Requiem (Left Spin) S3 0Wall Bearing
bL.8U.X': 9 wins (6 KO, 2 OS, 1 Burst)
SrS3.0W.Br: 11 wins (all OS)
SrS3.0W.Br win rate: 55%
Those outspins would probably not happen if I had gone with a better Frame for same spin matchups, Wall tended to scrape a lot when it was knocked off balance.

Then I tried a stationary Burst Attacker against it, to see if it would be more consistent in bursting it.
Bloody Longinus 5Glaive Weight vs Spryzen Requiem (Left Spin) 0Star Bearing
bL.5G.W: 16 wins (3 KO, 9 OS, 4 Burst)
SrS3.0S.Br: 4 wins (all OS)
2 ties redone
SrS3.0S.Br win rate: 20%
Wow, this was a really unexpected result. bL didn't burst Spryzen Requiem as consistently as it could the TT Sr,  but often times it was able to use the shape of the dragon heads to push it down and outspin it. Spryzen's outspins came from when it was launched second, and were usually very close. I informally tested this same matchup but with B3 about a week ago and I was getting pretty similar results, so I'm starting to think that stationary bL might have some Smash Attack potential.

Just for fun, I also tried it in right spin against "No Longer Alive" Hades:
Dead Hades 8'Dagger Xtreme' vs Spryzen Requiem (Right Spin) S3 0Star Bearing
dH.8'D.X': 14 wins (9 KO, 5 OS)
SrS3.0S.Br: 6 wins (all OS)
1 tie redone
SrS3.0S.Br win rate: 30%

(Jan. 01, 2019  3:21 AM)Kei Wrote: One burst with bL X’ against Sr Br is really concerning to me. You should never be that safe with Br against an X’ attack combo in the same spin direction as you.

I’m testing dF and B3 Br right now and can’t burst them either. In fact, I can’t even get them to lose much of anything at all on their slope.

It makes me wonder what the argument is for keeping Hasbro Bearing in the game, nevermind Sr. I’d be more inclined to allow Sr again if Hasbro Br was banned. The discrepancy in the spring tightness–and therefore, performance–versus the TT Br seems like too much.

Curious to hear what others think who have more experience with Hasbro parts.

(Jan. 01, 2019  8:59 AM)Wombat Wrote:

(Jan. 01, 2019  3:21 AM)Kei Wrote: One burst with bL X’ against Sr Br is really concerning to me. You should never be that safe with Br against an X’ attack combo in the same spin direction as you.

I’m testing dF and B3 Br right now and can’t burst them either. In fact, I can’t even get them to lose much of anything at all on their slope.

It makes me wonder what the argument is for keeping Hasbro Bearing in the game, nevermind Sr. I’d be more inclined to allow Sr again if Hasbro Br was banned. The discrepancy in the spring tightness–and therefore, performance–versus the TT Br seems like too much.

Curious to hear what others think who have more experience with Hasbro parts.

To be fair, I am using a rubber Attack Driver, which isn't normally supposed to be bursting things due to the high amount of friction is has with the ground. As you can see, more dedicated Burst Attackers have a higher chance of bursting SrS3 Br - the tradeoff of using something like X' is that you sacrifice some of your bursting ability for a better chance to KO an opposite spin opponent (though at this point in Burst standard, that's still not very likely... I wouldn't have a ton of faith in bL X' being able to KO aH Xt+ or wV/dH X' KOing hS Xt+ consistently).

Personally, I'm opposed to removing Hasbro Bearing from the game. It's basically the only part that allows Hasbro combos to be viable in the Takara-Tomy meta, and even then its uses are limited to opposite spin. With the only Layers that are viable with Hasbro Bearing (Caynox C3, G3, SrS3, and B3) being relatively light compared to the Cho Z releases, they not only lose in same spin Stamina matches but are also relatively easy to KO. In my opinion, it makes the Hasbro Layers viable sidegrades to aH and hS (more burst resistance at the cost of Stamina and opposite spin performance) while not making them too overcentralizing.

(Jan. 01, 2019  10:28 AM)kjrules17 Wrote: I 100% agree with Wombat here. We already got oofed big time because of Turbo, banning Hasbro Bearing would just be adding insult to injury, you know?

(Jan. 01, 2019  11:15 PM)Shindog Wrote: I am generally against bans and believe there has to be overwhelming evidence that a part is a problem before banning.  I believe other WBO members have expressed concerns about bans and the “unintended consequences” bans may have.  I believe this came up quite a bit in the aH, hS, and rP ban discussion.  I don’t think we are seeing Hasbro Br truly dominating the winning combos like Sr once did.  Does Hasbro Br really need to be banned because it is a major problem right now?

(Jan. 01, 2019  11:57 PM)RedPanda2 Wrote:

(Jan. 01, 2019  11:15 PM)Shindog Wrote: I am generally against bans and believe there has to be overwhelming evidence that a part is a problem before banning.  I believe other WBO members have expressed concerns about bans and the “unintended consequences” bans may have.  I believe this came up quite a bit in the aH, hS, and rP ban discussion.  I don’t think we are seeing Hasbro Br truly dominating the winning combos like Sr once did.  Does Hasbro Br really need to be banned because it is a major problem right now?

the potential banning of hasbro Br vs. the potential banning of aH, hS, and rP are completely different concepts here. 

one might argue hasbro Br, itself, is a one giant     “unintended consequence”. but rather than WBO rules as a culprit, it’s hasbro’s lazy and tone deaf design choices. 

it’s a ridiculous, broken part.  it strays far from the obvious intentions/limitations of the TT part. frankly that irritates me.  so in principle, i believe banning hasbro Br at least needs to be discussed. 

however as an “outcomes” focused person, i’m unsure if adding this part to the banlist will have much of an impact either way.

• Balkesh B3 on Br never bursted. It also never really moved much on its slope, if at all.
  
• Despite the weight difference, Hasbro Bearing combos (at least using B3) don't seem to have trouble competing in opposite spin match-ups with TT Bearing-based opponents.
  
• B3.0T.Br wasn't that easy to KO. It requires a pretty perfect launch in order to do it; otherwise, it just deflects everything after the first few seconds. The softer plastic used for B3 (and Hasbro Beyblades in general) probably helps a bit with this. The feeling you get when your Attack type hits this thing is completely different than the TT counterpart or things like hS.
  

(Jan. 01, 2019  10:41 PM)bladekid Wrote: Ive though of the Br ban before, but the argument that hasbro doesn't have the ability to compete in opposite spin anymore always makes me  think it would be a negative change. Think of it this way: without Br, hasbro players can't win opposite spin, can't compete with stamina without getting bursted and really can't do anything to TT beys like hS, aH, and rP. Considering turbo is bad, hasbro doesn't have the weight to compete.

(Jan. 01, 2019  10:41 PM)bladekid Wrote: And if you still think you need to ban hasbro Br, than you may need to think it over a bit more because removing hasbro's one ticket to viablitity, would make the meta less balanced, since hasbro beys aren't good, hasbro players like myself wouldn't have a chance, therefore, the meta would become TT centralized

(Jan. 01, 2019  10:41 PM)bladekid Wrote: Hasbro already can't really compete with attack beys, without Br defence isn't as viable because of the lack of LAD and burst resistance, now, if Br gets banned, hasbro won't have stamina or equalizing either.

(Jan. 01, 2019  10:41 PM)bladekid Wrote: And if Br is such a problem, what about Xt+? I'm not able to burst or KO aH or hS on Xt+, so if hasbro's Br is such a problem that it gets considered a ban, shouldn't we look at Xt+ the same way?

(Jan. 01, 2019  10:41 PM)bladekid Wrote: Also, its not Br making B3, F3, and SrS3 unburstable, they already are pretty much.

(Jan. 01, 2019  11:15 PM)Shindog Wrote: I am generally against bans and believe there has to be overwhelming evidence that a part is a problem before banning.  I believe other WBO members have expressed concerns about bans and the “unintended consequences” bans may have.  I believe this came up quite a bit in the aH, hS, and rP ban discussion.  I don’t think we are seeing Hasbro Br truly dominating the winning combos like Sr once did.  Does Hasbro Br really need to be banned because it is a major problem right now?

(Jan. 02, 2019  12:08 AM)Shindog Wrote:

(Jan. 01, 2019  11:57 PM)RedPanda2 Wrote: the potential banning of hasbro Br vs. the potential banning of aH, hS, and rP are completely different concepts here. 

one might argue hasbro Br, itself, is a one giant     “unintended consequence”. but rather than WBO rules as a culprit, it’s hasbro’s lazy and tone deaf design choices. 

it’s a ridiculous, broken part.  it strays far from the obvious intentions/limitations of the TT part. frankly that irritates me.  so in principle, i believe banning hasbro Br at least needs to be discussed. 

however as an “outcomes” focused person, i’m unsure if adding this part to the banlist will have much of an impact either way.

I recall some of the strongest arguments to ban aH was that it combins good stamina and defense?

Does Hasbro Br not combine good stamina and defense?

(Jan. 02, 2019  12:20 AM)RedPanda2 Wrote:

(Jan. 02, 2019  12:08 AM)Shindog Wrote: I recall some of the strongest arguments to ban aH was that it combins good stamina and defense?

Does Hasbro Br not combine good stamina and defense?

the ban discussion you referenced was aH/hS/rP as a combo-ban.

now you are talking about individual issues with a layer, again two different concepts.

---

wow those are some brutal test results, Kei. i didn’t realize.

(Jan. 01, 2019  10:41 PM)bladekid Wrote: I guess, but even with Br's good burst resistance, its still easy to KO. Ive though of the Br ban before, but the argument that hasbro doesn't have the ability to compete in opposite spin anymore always makes me  think it would be a negative change. Think of it this way: without Br, hasbro players can't win opposite spin, can't compete with stamina without getting bursted and really can't do anything to TT beys like hS, aH, and rP. Considering turbo is bad, hasbro doesn't have the weight to compete. Hasbro already can't really compete with attack beys, without Br defence isn't as viable because of the lack of LAD and burst resistance, now, if Br gets banned, hasbro won't have stamina or equalizing either. And if Br is such a problem, what about Xt+? I'm not able to burst or KO aH or hS on Xt+, so if hasbro's Br is such a problem that it gets considered a ban, shouldn't we look at Xt+ the same way? If you want to ban Hasbro Br, fine, but you would also have to ban TT Br, Xt+, and hS because it would make hasbro still viable in opposite spin, and you'd need to ban aH and maybe rP because that would make hasbro, and even some TT beys more viable in right spin. Also, its not Br making B3, F3, and SrS3 unburstable, they already are pretty much. And if you still think you need to ban hasbro Br, than you may need to think it over a bit more because removing hasbro's one ticket to viablitity, would make the meta less balanced, since hasbro beys aren't good, hasbro players like myself wouldn't have a chance, therefore, the meta would become TT centralized. And just to end, for hasbro players, Br is mostly about opposite spin and not burst resistance, if you remove Br, hasbro players won't have a chance against the many strong TT beys out there. Also, hS can pretty much beat anything left spin from hasbro keep in mind. Thanks for your time, have a good day.

(Jan. 02, 2019  6:49 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:

(Jan. 01, 2019  10:41 PM)bladekid Wrote: I guess, but even with Br's good burst resistance, its still easy to KO. Ive though of the Br ban before, but the argument that hasbro doesn't have the ability to compete in opposite spin anymore always makes me  think it would be a negative change. Think of it this way: without Br, hasbro players can't win opposite spin, can't compete with stamina without getting bursted and really can't do anything to TT beys like hS, aH, and rP. Considering turbo is bad, hasbro doesn't have the weight to compete. Hasbro already can't really compete with attack beys, without Br defence isn't as viable because of the lack of LAD and burst resistance, now, if Br gets banned, hasbro won't have stamina or equalizing either. And if Br is such a problem, what about Xt+? I'm not able to burst or KO aH or hS on Xt+, so if hasbro's Br is such a problem that it gets considered a ban, shouldn't we look at Xt+ the same way? If you want to ban Hasbro Br, fine, but you would also have to ban TT Br, Xt+, and hS because it would make hasbro still viable in opposite spin, and you'd need to ban aH and maybe rP because that would make hasbro, and even some TT beys more viable in right spin. Also, its not Br making B3, F3, and SrS3 unburstable, they already are pretty much. And if you still think you need to ban hasbro Br, than you may need to think it over a bit more because removing hasbro's one ticket to viablitity, would make the meta less balanced, since hasbro beys aren't good, hasbro players like myself wouldn't have a chance, therefore, the meta would become TT centralized. And just to end, for hasbro players, Br is mostly about opposite spin and not burst resistance, if you remove Br, hasbro players won't have a chance against the many strong TT beys out there. Also, hS can pretty much beat anything left spin from hasbro keep in mind. Thanks for your time, have a good day.

Xt+ is very easy to Ko...and its not as tight as Et.

(Jan. 02, 2019  4:41 AM)mleunc Wrote: I don't buy into any bans in general.  By banning any "op" parts all you do is make the next level "op" parts the best.  If you look at winning combos the overwhelming majority are the same combos that spread through the meta.  So whether you ban parts or not it's still going to be a consistent set of winning combos.  Just let the "op" parts be "op", it will make it easier and more fun for the average blader to have success and enjoy tournaments.

(Jan. 02, 2019  12:43 PM)bladekid Wrote: removing it from play would put hasbro players at an even bigger disadvantage.

(Jan. 02, 2019  2:02 PM)RedPanda2 Wrote:

(Jan. 02, 2019  4:41 AM)mleunc Wrote: I don't buy into any bans in general.  By banning any "op" parts all you do is make the next level "op" parts the best.  If you look at winning combos the overwhelming majority are the same combos that spread through the meta.  So whether you ban parts or not it's still going to be a consistent set of winning combos.  Just let the "op" parts be "op", it will make it easier and more fun for the average blader to have success and enjoy tournaments.

there is a difference between “op”, a subjective opinion, and “obviously broken”, which is a verifiable fact.  TT bearing is the benchmark for how hasbro bearing should behave.  hasbro bearing is a pretty large departure from TT's design, considering burst resistance.

i hate bans, but after seeing Kei's test results, hasbro bearing looks more obviously broken than simply op.

---

(Jan. 02, 2019  12:43 PM)bladekid Wrote: removing it from play would put hasbro players at an even bigger disadvantage.

then the hasbro player could simply buy TT.

being a hasbro player is not a disease or genetic condition; if you don’t like the hasbro lineup, buy TT.

 we should not allow hasbro's poor and lazy design to impact our game.

(Jan. 02, 2019  2:02 PM)RedPanda2 Wrote:

(Jan. 02, 2019  4:41 AM)mleunc Wrote: I don't buy into any bans in general.  By banning any "op" parts all you do is make the next level "op" parts the best.  If you look at winning combos the overwhelming majority are the same combos that spread through the meta.  So whether you ban parts or not it's still going to be a consistent set of winning combos.  Just let the "op" parts be "op", it will make it easier and more fun for the average blader to have success and enjoy tournaments.

there is a difference between “op”, a subjective opinion, and “obviously broken”, which is a verifiable fact.  TT bearing is the benchmark for how hasbro bearing should behave.  hasbro bearing is a pretty large departure from TT's design, considering burst resistance.

i hate bans, but after seeing Kei's test results, hasbro bearing looks more obviously broken than simply op.

---

(Jan. 02, 2019  12:43 PM)bladekid Wrote: removing it from play would put hasbro players at an even bigger disadvantage.

then the hasbro player could simply buy TT.

being a hasbro player is not a disease or genetic condition; if you don’t like the hasbro lineup, buy TT.

 we should not allow hasbro's poor and lazy design to impact our game.

(Jan. 02, 2019  9:27 PM)Dt20000 Wrote:

(Jan. 02, 2019  2:02 PM)RedPanda2 Wrote: there is a difference between “op”, a subjective opinion, and “obviously broken”, which is a verifiable fact.  TT bearing is the benchmark for how hasbro bearing should behave.  hasbro bearing is a pretty large departure from TT's design, considering burst resistance.

i hate bans, but after seeing Kei's test results, hasbro bearing looks more obviously broken than simply op.

---

then the hasbro player could simply buy TT.

being a hasbro player is not a disease or genetic condition; if you don’t like the hasbro lineup, buy TT.

 we should not allow hasbro's poor and lazy design to impact our game.

You’re right, being a Hasbro Blader isn’t a disease or genetic condition. It’s a product of circumstance. TT beys are very expensive for anybody that isn’t in Japan, and a majority of them are hard to access. Hasbro’s Bearing is the best that anybody can get if they don’t want to blow a ton of money on a hobby. Also, TT is not a benchmark for Hasbro. They would be, if it weren’t for the Turbo beys. The Turbo beys are a huge departure from the Cho-Z beyblades, and now a layer from Turbo can barely stand up to a Cho-Z bey. Hasbro’s Bearing, coupled with strong and heavy parts, can allow a Turbo bey to actually engage in a battle against a TT Cho-Z Bey. Hasbro’s Bearing is one of a Hasbro Bladers only chances of victory against a TT Blader, and yet people like you want to make the Hasbro bladers lose by a lot, for no reason other than the fact that one Hasbro part is stronger than a TT.

(Jan. 02, 2019  9:27 PM)Dt20000 Wrote: You’re right, being a Hasbro Blader isn’t a disease or genetic condition. It’s a product of circumstance. TT beys are very expensive for anybody that isn’t in Japan, and a majority of them are hard to access. Hasbro’s Bearing is the best that anybody can get if they don’t want to blow a ton of money on a hobby. Also, TT is not a benchmark for Hasbro. They would be, if it weren’t for the Turbo beys. The Turbo beys are a huge departure from the Cho-Z beyblades, and now a layer from Turbo can barely stand up to a Cho-Z bey. Hasbro’s Bearing, coupled with strong and heavy parts, can allow a Turbo bey to actually engage in a battle against a TT Cho-Z Bey. Hasbro’s Bearing is one of a Hasbro Bladers only chances of victory against a TT Blader, and yet people like you want to make the Hasbro bladers lose by a lot, for no reason other than the fact that one Hasbro part is stronger than a TT.

(Jan. 02, 2019  12:14 AM)Kei Wrote: The unfortunate reality is that when making decisions for what's best in our regular Burst Format, what must take precedence is ensuring it is balanced objectively. If we factor in the idea that Hasbro players might not be able to compete as well with a certain part banned, then we are allowing the game to become ruled by something which has no relevance to the actual gameplay balance from an objective perspective. This situation is comparable to what we went through with Garuda G3; banning that impacted Hasbro players negatively, but it made the Burst Format itself better.

Hasbro players have Hasbro Burst Format available too for them to play each other on a level playing field, which is another reason why I don't think their ability to compete should be mentioned in this discussion.

(Jan. 02, 2019  10:11 PM)Kei Wrote:

(Jan. 02, 2019  9:27 PM)Dt20000 Wrote: You’re right, being a Hasbro Blader isn’t a disease or genetic condition. It’s a product of circumstance. TT beys are very expensive for anybody that isn’t in Japan, and a majority of them are hard to access. Hasbro’s Bearing is the best that anybody can get if they don’t want to blow a ton of money on a hobby. Also, TT is not a benchmark for Hasbro. They would be, if it weren’t for the Turbo beys. The Turbo beys are a huge departure from the Cho-Z beyblades, and now a layer from Turbo can barely stand up to a Cho-Z bey. Hasbro’s Bearing, coupled with strong and heavy parts, can allow a Turbo bey to actually engage in a battle against a TT Cho-Z Bey. Hasbro’s Bearing is one of a Hasbro Bladers only chances of victory against a TT Blader, and yet people like you want to make the Hasbro bladers lose by a lot, for no reason other than the fact that one Hasbro part is stronger than a TT.

I'd like to direct you to this from my previous post:

(Jan. 02, 2019  12:14 AM)Kei Wrote: The unfortunate reality is that when making decisions for what's best in our regular Burst Format, what must take precedence is ensuring it is balanced objectively. If we factor in the idea that Hasbro players might not be able to compete as well with a certain part banned, then we are allowing the game to become ruled by something which has no relevance to the actual gameplay balance from an objective perspective. This situation is comparable to what we went through with Garuda G3; banning that impacted Hasbro players negatively, but it made the Burst Format itself better.

Hasbro players have Hasbro Burst Format available too for them to play each other on a level playing field, which is another reason why I don't think their ability to compete should be mentioned in this discussion.

Wanting to ban Hasbro Bearing doesn't mean we "want to make the Hasbro bladers lose by a lot, for no reason other than the fact that one Hasbro part is stronger than a TT". The reason some people want it banned is because it is a broken part objectively speaking. That cannot be argued; Beyblade simply cannot fairly include a part which has the best LAD and the best burst resistance in the game on a conceptual level. Some performance variance is to be expected when comparing the two brands, but that doesn't mean we should allow something which is obviously broken to remain in the game. That goes beyond a mere slight performance variance.

I understand why players who primarily buy Hasbro parts would feel threatened by this, but this has nothing to do with any feelings towards such players. Instead, it has everything to do with wanting the game to be balanced on a conceptual level where parts availability is not a factor. If Hasbro players are affected negatively by a potential ban of Bearing, then that's Hasbro's fault for producing it so carelessly without thinking about the gameplay implications. And in order to help alleviate this, at least we do have Hasbro Burst Format as I mentioned previously; everyone is free to use it so they have an environment to compete on a more even playing field.

If we allow the fact that some players can't afford TT (or any particular part which is hard to obtain, regardless of the brand) to influence our decisions, what value does WBO Organized Play have? What value does it have if we allow inherently broken parts to exist? What value do the rankings then have? Not much competitively speaking, by my estimation. That's why we always carefully consider things like this to ensure the part(s) in question are not damaging to the balance of the game. And that's whether the part is produced by TAKARA-TOMY or by Hasbro; there is no prejudice against one side or the other as we have clearly shown over the years.

(Jan. 02, 2019  11:23 PM)bladekid Wrote: I'm not saying its not broken, but banning it is simply unfair.

(Jan. 02, 2019  11:23 PM)bladekid Wrote: It also isn't about burst resistance, its about LAD, there is less chance its going to get bursted just because its an opposite spin battle.

(Jan. 02, 2019  11:23 PM)bladekid Wrote: If you are going to ban it, fine, just make it equal to hasbro players and ban TT br and Xt+. As Ive said, you can't replace Br in a deck with something like Ds, its just not good enough. Also, if it's all about balancing the meta, what about aH, hS, and rP? To my knowledge, a lot of people have been wanting them banned for a while, and they are actually dominating tournaments unlike B3 on Br which has endless weaknesses. Without those 3 beys, the meta would improve a lot.

The Supreme One Wrote:Re Shindog: I was against banning Archer Hercules because it sets off a chain reaction in which we also have to ban Hell Salamander and Revive Phoenix (maybe even Cho-Z Spriggan) to maintain a balanced meta. The benefit to banning just the driver is that there won't be this sort of chain-reaction banning because it affects all layers.

(Jan. 02, 2019  11:23 PM)bladekid Wrote: In the Uk (I think) there was a tournament where they banned aH, rP and hS ad there was a lot more variety with both TT and hasbro combo.

(Jan. 03, 2019  2:26 AM)CheetoBlader Wrote: Here are some tests
5 rounds each
(Left spin) Spryzen Requiem 7 Br VS Bloody Longinus 0B Hn’
Bloody Longinus wins 10-0 (5 Bursts)

(Right spin) Spryzen Requiem 7 Br VS Bloody Longinus 0B Hn’
Spryzen Requiem wins 5-0 (5 Survivors)

I think it matters what spin you are in because when Spryzen was in left spin it lost but in right spin it won so I think that it only matters about spin direction so Bearing should not be banned

(Jan. 03, 2019  4:03 AM)Kei Wrote: Which Spryzen Requiem mold are you using? The original or the silver one from the Ultimate Tournament Collection? The UTC version is significantly easier to burst. Also, using no Frame makes it easier to destabilize, I find.

Also, how many KO/OS for bL in the results versus left spin Spryzen Requiem?

I just did a few rounds informally comparing both molds to be sure and the UTC mold was indeed much easier to burst. I was able to burst the regular Spryzen Requiem once or twice–which is consistent with Wombat's bL results from before–and it did have more recoil than B3, but it was still exceedingly hard to get it close to bursting.