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Bahamdia Discussion

Feb. 15, 2013  1:39 AM
 
Regarding the consistency of strong smash attacks, I think some people have overlooked that there are actually 3 or 4 smash attack points, if you consider the space between the bahamut's horns at the top, which, even though it looks pathetic compared to the 2 huge gaps at the bottom, is about as wide as one of the spaces in the diablo wheel, and can provide very strong smash, or the rough, spiky area on the lower part of the wheel between the 2 major gaps. In fact, due to roughness and gaps, the only places that do not provide strong smash are the smooth arcs on either side of the bahamut's head. However, I do agree that the lack of thickness in the wheel is a problem, but this can be fixed by giving it a low track, such as 100 or 105, and simply switching the chrome wheels so that bahamdia is either on the top or on the bottom, depending on what bey you are battling. this way, it has a larger range due to the fact that it can cover twice the surface area by aiming low or high. Smile
Feb. 15, 2013  10:25 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2013  1:39 AM)joeuser767 Wrote:
Spoiler (Click to View)

I don't understand how you came to some of the conclusions that you just stated, but just in case I missed something, I tried Bahamdia on DF105. It was just as inconsistent as the SA165 version, it was probably worse actually cause BD145 soaks most of the hits (especially when I swapped Bahamdia to the bottom).

I don't see how putting it on a lower track is going to make its smash more consistent. And what is your plan vs. E230 opponents?
Feb. 15, 2013  11:53 PM
 
Someone tried an Attack Synchrom with Wyvang? or they just don't work together?
Feb. 16, 2013  5:24 PM
 
Or Goreim, I did some unofficial testing, and a kid at one of our tourneys in VA got a lot of wins with Goreim Bahamdia GB145/S130 XF/GF
Feb. 20, 2013  12:12 AM
 
(Feb. 15, 2013  10:25 PM)KainHighwind Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2013  1:39 AM)joeuser767 Wrote:
Spoiler (Click to View)

I don't understand how you came to some of the conclusions that you just stated, but just in case I missed something, I tried Bahamdia on DF105. It was just as inconsistent as the SA165 version, it was probably worse actually cause BD145 soaks most of the hits (especially when I swapped Bahamdia to the bottom).

I don't see how putting it on a lower track is going to make its smash more consistent. And what is your plan vs. E230 opponents?

Really? wierd... As for E230 opponents, with a tall performance tip like rf, r2f, or lrf, The combo is just tall enough to reach over the disk on the bottom of E230, and short enough to reach under it when it is elevated, and because of the square shape of the track, it is relatively easy to smash out of the stadium (or potentially actually break it). What chrome wheel did you use, and with what performance tip? It seems to work for me, So I'm not sure why it's not being consistent...Unhappy
(Feb. 15, 2013  10:25 PM)KainHighwind Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2013  1:39 AM)joeuser767 Wrote:
Spoiler (Click to View)

I don't understand how you came to some of the conclusions that you just stated, but just in case I missed something, I tried Bahamdia on DF105. It was just as inconsistent as the SA165 version, it was probably worse actually cause BD145 soaks most of the hits (especially when I swapped Bahamdia to the bottom).

I don't see how putting it on a lower track is going to make its smash more consistent. And what is your plan vs. E230 opponents?

Also, what stadium are you using? This was designed for BB10 stadiums, I've noticed it doesn't work as well in zero g stadiums. It can also reach over BD145 when bahamdia is up when you use rubber flat.
Feb. 20, 2013  12:21 AM
 
He was using BB-10. This thread is for BB-10 only.
Feb. 20, 2013  3:13 AM
 
(Feb. 15, 2013  10:25 PM)KainHighwind Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2013  1:39 AM)joeuser767 Wrote:
Spoiler (Click to View)

I don't understand how you came to some of the conclusions that you just stated, but just in case I missed something, I tried Bahamdia on DF105. It was just as inconsistent as the SA165 version, it was probably worse actually cause BD145 soaks most of the hits (especially when I swapped Bahamdia to the bottom).

I don't see how putting it on a lower track is going to make its smash more consistent. And what is your plan vs. E230 opponents?

The low track dosen't deal with the "lack" of smash attack points, it's to give the combo a middle height, so that it can usually hit just about anything (Witch can help with how thin bahamdia is), since I mostly work with heavy, fast smash attack beys with very little stamina, I usually use tall performance tips, like R2F. So with a low track and a tall performance tip, so far as i can see, this combo can generally hit just about anything, given you switch the chrome wheels from time to time. So basically, I thought with a tall tip and a 105 spin track, the combo would be able to hit both short beys and tall beys. that's all.Smile
Feb. 20, 2013  4:44 PM
 
joeuser767 Wrote:Really? wierd... As for E230 opponents, with a tall performance tip like rf, r2f, or lrf, The combo is just tall enough to reach over the disk on the bottom of E230, and short enough to reach under it when it is elevated, and because of the square shape of the track, it is relatively easy to smash out of the stadium (or potentially actually break it). What chrome wheel did you use, and with what performance tip? It seems to work for me, So I'm not sure why it's not being consistent...

I tried several different Chrome Wheels with it, Pegasis, Ifraid, Phoenic, Goreim, and of course I used a rubber attack tip (IIRC I believe I tried both R2F and RF).

joeuser767 Wrote:Also, what stadium are you using? This was designed for BB10 stadiums, I've noticed it doesn't work as well in zero g stadiums. It can also reach over BD145 when bahamdia is up when you use rubber flat.

As ShinobuXD said, I was testing in the BB-10 because that is what this thread is strictly for. I tried Bahamdia on the top and bottom.

joeuser767 Wrote:The low track dosen't deal with the "lack" of smash attack points, it's to give the combo a middle height, so that it can usually hit just about anything (Witch can help with how thin bahamdia is), since I mostly work with heavy, fast smash attack beys with very little stamina, I usually use tall performance tips, like R2F. So with a low track and a tall performance tip, so far as i can see, this combo can generally hit just about anything, given you switch the chrome wheels from time to time. So basically, I thought with a tall tip and a 105 spin track, the combo would be able to hit both short beys and tall beys. that's all.

I can understand your train of thought, get it lower than most everything and it will have a better chance of making contact and not missing the opponent by jumping/passing over it. But contact with the opponent is not the problem. It is that it doesn't make contact with its heavy hitting points enough. Even the SA165 version makes plenty of contact, but the amount of times that contact is with the good contact points is inconsistent. With a situation like this, the next step probably needs to be trying to up its spin velocity. The faster it is spinning (not moving) the more chances the good contact points will have to be the ones that connect with the opponent.
Feb. 21, 2013  10:24 AM
 
If spin velocity is the call, Bahamdia Gryph is the Synchrom for the job, right?
Feb. 21, 2013  10:09 PM
 
Cannon tried Bahamdia with Gryph in the OP, and it didn't seem to work out well. Gryph and Goreim are good places to start, but I was also thinking more like finding a track and tip setup that would help with spin velocity.
Feb. 23, 2013  12:00 AM
 
I noticed this week that when paired with dragooon, bahamdia's smash points are slightly wider opened on the sides when compared to some other chrome wheels, so I tried some tests to see if it would produce considerably better smash.

tests:

MSF-H Dragooon Bahamdia LW105RF vs. Orojya reviser BD145CS
L/R beylauncher for both
reviser launched first on all launches
Bahamdia: 8 wins (all KO)
reviser: 2 wins (both OS)

Bahamdia win rate: 80%


I would've used RDF, but I won't have it for a couple weeks, and my RS is wierd and off-center, so it make the beys wobble like Q. I only have one reviser, but Bahamdia made contact with only reviser anyway. Reviser's 2 OS wins were both from as series of wall saves. On 1 point bahamdia lifted reviser off the ground, and if it hadn't been for BD145 catching the wall, reviser would've gone over it. This seems to me like an amazing performance, whether adding dragooon was the reason or not, but most of you know how CS compares to RDF better than me.
Feb. 23, 2013  1:45 AM
 
First of all Bahamdia's contact points are always wide open with the one exception probably being when Synchromed with itself. Second I do not see how it is physically possible that at a 105 height and Bahamdia being on the bottom, it could possibly always being making contact with Revizer. You stated that it lifted Orojya Revizer, if it was making contact with just Revizer then there is absolutely no way it could lift it. I should have some time over the weekend and I will test this myself.
Feb. 23, 2013  2:27 AM
 
(Feb. 23, 2013  1:45 AM)KainHighwind Wrote: First of all Bahamdia's contact points are always wide open with the one exception probably being when Synchromed with itself. Second I do not see how it is physically possible that at a 105 height and Bahamdia being on the bottom, it could possibly always being making contact with Revizer. You stated that it lifted Orojya Revizer, if it was making contact with just Revizer then there is absolutely no way it could lift it. I should have some time over the weekend and I will test this myself.

Well, I just thought it would be good, so I tested it. I really thought that dragooon exposed the contact points better, for instance pegasis, goriem, reviser, orojya, killerken, and wyvang all cover up the points slightly more. I am by no means saying that they cover them compleletly, or are innefective when synchromed with bahamdia, or even that dragooon is better in terms of covering smash points. It's just that i saw it covered up less, and that is what compelled me to test it. The fact that I switched to dragooon is almost completely nelegible in terms of smash (except for the fact that it weighs more and can allow left spin) but how would I know that unless I tested it?.
I'm sorry if you think I am being rediculous, you are probably a more experienced blader then me, but I just thought it would be good. And if you look at the combo, bahamdia was actually on the top, but it may have touched oroya a few times if reviser leaned over.
And when bahamdia lifted reviser off the ground, I meant that it hit reviser so hard that it left the ground and flew through the air, which is possible if you apply enough force. Not that it scooped underneath.
If you test this with the right launch techniques (bank shot with bahamdia, normal shot with reviser) I really think you will find that it is very good. Thanks for testing combos for us.
Could anyone give me comparison between CS and RDF for defense? Just wondering, because I won't have RDF for a couple weeks, and I have to do all my attack testing on CS beys, but I don't know if it is as good as RDF. Thanks! Smile
Feb. 23, 2013  4:21 AM
 
(Feb. 23, 2013  1:45 AM)KainHighwind Wrote: First of all Bahamdia's contact points are always wide open with the one exception probably being when Synchromed with itself. Second I do not see how it is physically possible that at a 105 height and Bahamdia being on the bottom, it could possibly always being making contact with Revizer. You stated that it lifted Orojya Revizer, if it was making contact with just Revizer then there is absolutely no way it could lift it. I should have some time over the weekend and I will test this myself.

In the format he put it, Dragooon would be on the bottom. The lower wheel always comes first. Smile
That is why I was sort of boggled at first glance since he was using Dragooon on the bottom. It is very rare to see Dragooon being used on the bottom since it was widely accepted that Dragooon is a sub-par chrome wheel when not used for its left spinning prowess.
Feb. 23, 2013  4:43 AM
 
I have no computer and have to use my phone with bad service on top of that so sometimes I only catch a glimpse before my phone reminds me of said service. I apologize for reading it wrong. Even so it does not make total contact with Revizer as you stated which will play a huge difference in whether it can KO Revizer Revizer or not. There is a rather large gap in between Orojya and BD145 even pushed up and as thin as Bahamdia is, all it has to do is catch that once especially on CS. So I flipped it with Bahamdia on top and gave it a shot vs Revizer Revizer BD145RDF and it still has the same inconsistency.
Feb. 23, 2013  2:23 PM
 
(Feb. 23, 2013  4:43 AM)KainHighwind Wrote: I have no computer and have to use my phone with bad service on top of that so sometimes I only catch a glimpse before my phone reminds me of said service. I apologize for reading it wrong. Even so it does not make total contact with Revizer as you stated which will play a huge difference in whether it can KO Revizer Revizer or not. There is a rather large gap in between Orojya and BD145 even pushed up and as thin as Bahamdia is, all it has to do is catch that once especially on CS. So I flipped it with Bahamdia on top and gave it a shot vs Revizer Revizer BD145RDF and it still has the same inconsistency.

Well, this is why I think it only hit reviser. I painted one of my bahamdia wheels black a while back, and that is the one I used for the test. After the battle was over, I looked at the two chrome wheels on reviser, and only the reviser wheel had black marks on it. And the time where I said reviser flew through the air and almost over the wall, it was leaning toward bahamdia so it only could've hit reviser. I would like to test it again, I have balro, killerken, orojya, wyvang, reviser, goriem, dragooon, and bahamdia. Would wyvang have better defense against smash?
(was bahamdia able to beat Reviser^2 BD145RDF at all? could you post test results?) OH, and I forgot a key point! bahamdia had a MSF-H when I tested it, I'll edit that now.
Feb. 23, 2013  5:43 PM
 
I don't want you to think I'm saying this is a bad setup cause it is not. My point is that it still has the ssame inconsistent smash as the other Bahamdia combos that have been tested. I have some free time right now and will do some quick tests for you. Oh, and yes, Wyvang would be a much better choice than Orojya. Both me and IIRC ShinobuXD did defense comparison tests in the competitive combos thread with Wyvang. Look for an edit to this post with tests if no one responds before I get done.



Edit:
MSF-L Dragooon Bahamdia DF105R2F vs. MSF-L Revizer Revizer BD145RDF
Revizer always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
DB: 6 (2 OS, 4 KO)
Revizer: 14 (14 OS, 0 KO)
DB Win %: 30.0%

BD145 was soaking a lot of hits. DB's 2 OS were because it got some good hits in that knocked Revizer around enough so that it wasted a lot of spin, but the hits were just not hard enough to KO it. I actually redid several rounds were DB went into a tornado stall after the first few hits just to make sure it wasn't my launch. but that happens a lot with Bahamdia if it doesn't connect with its good contact points.

MSF-L Dragooon Bahamdia DF105R2F vs. Orojya Revizer BD145CS
OR always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
DB: 8 (5 OS, 3 KO)
OR: 2 (2 OS, 0 KO)
DB Win %: 80.0%

I just did these for reference. DB had so many OS because it would get caught in the gap between Orojya and BD145 which would cause it to move down and scrape to death, never really giving DB a chance to KO.
Feb. 23, 2013  6:49 PM
 
Oh Btw I did do some testing with Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F. I used SA165 in the Upper Mode since it seemed to increase its spin velocity and let me get a deeper bank. My R2F was pretty new. The results were actually from some video testing that I did, but my CS 5 Master Collection got this annoying bug and now I have to re-install it.

I just figure I'd share my results now so you wouldn't have to wait for the video. Then when the video comes you can see the way I'm KOing. Right now, I think the launch is probably what makes it so inconsistent. It definitely reminds me of Beat. The launch needs to be pretty perfect. See for yourself.

Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F (Lower Mode) vs MSF-H Gargole Killerken BD145RSF
Bahamdia: 8/10 (All KO)
Killerken: 2/10 (All OS)

Bahamdia Win Rate: 80%

Again the reason I did only 10 rounds was that this was some video testing. I should have the video that goes with this up tomorrow.
Feb. 24, 2013  2:24 AM
 
Alright, I did some test this time, but I switched orojya with wyvang, and switched the tip to RS.

MSF-H Dragooon Bahamdia LW105RF vs. Wyvang reviser BD145RS
L/R launcher for both
reviser launched first on all launches
Bahamdia: 6 (5 KO, 1 OS)
reviser: 4 (2 KO, 2 OS)

bahamdia win rate: 60%

Now, this may not seem very impressive, but here's the thing. I cannot even begin to describe how often reviser got wall saves. He MUST have gotten at least 15. In fact, the only win reviser got without getting 2 or more wall saves, was an OS in round 2.
The 2 KOs reviser got were when bahamdia smashed it into the air across the stadium, and it got a wall save while bahamdia barely slipped out of the stadium from the recoil.
Bahamdia's 1 OS was when it hit reviser so hard, that when it was saved by the wall, it jumped into the air, then hit the ground unbalanced, losing almost all of its stamina.
Without the miraculous wall saves (which happened at least once each battle, usually twice) it could've easily been a 90% win rate for bahamdia. I don't understand why this combo is working so well for me.

Oops! I think I wrote RSF, I meant RS. Sorry.
Feb. 24, 2013  6:10 PM
 
CAn anyone test Bahamdia² ch120GF
Feb. 25, 2013  3:20 AM
 
@JoeUser767:
1. Its 20 rounds not 10.
2. I tested the exact combos and my results are VERY different. I'm pretty sure Im decent with attack(See Flash H145 R2F)
So either Im really bad with attack types ( which Im not) or one of us isn't telling the truth about something. hmmm.

Spoiler (Click to View)
The Ko was basically luck on Bahamdia's end. Revizer was right next to the ridge. The 2 OS we because Revizer got off balance.
Feb. 25, 2013  4:49 AM
 
Looking back at these combos, I'm quite positive that Bahamdia is just very inconsistent overall. That launch is super temperamental, whether it be Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF or Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F.

If anyone wants to test Bahamdia combos overall, I'd recommend they put up a video if possible as a benchmark for launching Bahamdia so that others can compare and critique how they launch. It does make quite a difference, and I'm speaking from experience here.
Feb. 25, 2013  5:01 AM
 
I finally fixed the bug in my CS 5 Master Collection so I should hopefully have a launching video coming up shortly.

On a side note, I tried MSF-H Dragooon Bahamdia LW105RF. It is definitely not as consistent as Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F and I feel that when it does hit hard, it is not as hard as Bahamdia Ifraid SA165R2F for whatever reason. I'm not really getting any BD145 contact though, just metal/chrome wheel.

MSF-H Dragooon Bahamdia LW105RF vs Killerken Gargole BD145RSF
Bahamdia: 7/20 (6 KO, 1 OS)
Killerken: 13/20 (All OS)

Bahamdia Win Rate: 35%

1 Tie Redone

I used Killerken on the bottom so that it would be taking most of the hits. ATM I don't have 2 fantastic defense chrome wheels so I'm trying to switch up the contact here to replicate having 2 good defense chrome wheels. The launch is sorta unique. It has to be banked deep, but no so deep that it doesn't get many clean hits. Again for whatever reason, Bahamdia Ifraid seems a lot more consistent than this guy.
Feb. 25, 2013  7:44 AM
 
Gah, I finally have a break from studying to post this! I've been rather busy so I didn't get a chance to test against more than one defense custom, but bear with me and I'll get more results in the coming days.

I have to preempt these results by saying I am nowhere near as good with attack types as other notable users. Like, I'm still sometimes flubbing up a sliding shoot. I don't have Flash benchmarks just yet (I'll get them ASAP), but I can safely assume they won't be as good as other users'.


With that in mind, this custom did pretty darn good despite my relatively skill:

MSF-L Bahamdia Dragooon SA165(Normal)LRF vs. MSF-H Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Bahamdia: 8 (0 OS, 8 KO)
Reviser: 12 (5 OS, 7 KO)
Bahamdia Win %: 40.0%

After I had seen MSF-M Bahamdia Ifraid SA165(Normal)R2F sling defensive customs across the room, I started thinking about the current lack of decent left-spin attackers in the meta and thought to try this. The results were decent, and I'm sure someone better at using attack types could pull some better numbers.

In these tests I used SA165 in Normal mode simply because I did them before I realized other people were using Zero-G Attack Mode to good effect. I'm not sure if Zero-G Attack Mode would improve the numbers at all.


Even if these numbers corrected for skill are decent, they're probably years away from Wyvang Dragooon customs. As soon as I get Wyvang in the mail and can do some comparative tests I'll come back to this statement: Based on the results other people are getting I'm starting to think Bahamdia might not be as consistent (read: good) as Wyvang, and so I'm not sure if it is worth using for Attack.

I have a hunch about the Bahamdia/Wyvang comparison: does Bahamdia have more raw smash than Wyvang but less consistency, or is Wyvang just strictly better?


EDIT: Okay, I'm not "horrible" with attack types, I'm just not as good as some other notable users (read: Meow!). I updated this post to reflect that.
Feb. 25, 2013  6:37 PM
 
I will play around with them a little more but I would say that Bahamdia's hardest smash is probably equal to Wyvang's. Wyvang is better because it obviously is much more consistent. I believe the one advantage Bahamdia has over other attack Chrome Wheels is its width which allows it to ensure that it will get some form of contact with the opponent. This is extremely helpful in left spin combos so the opponent doesn't end up staying away and not letting the left spin combo steal any spin. It is also very helpful with fast moving tips so that you get early contact before possibly self KOing (i.e. Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF).
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