World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

“Dread Vertical” may cause stadium scratches and wear quickly.

Oct. 20, 2020  6:39 PM
 
This is a test video that shows the extent that a “dread vertical type” launch may scratch the stadium 

https://youtu.be/AdYmjFEDf0Y

A few notes

1) this video shows the second “dread verification” launch I have performed in this stadium.  The first launch also caused similar  scratches which can be seen at the very beginning of the video.  The more prominent  and larger spot scratches were caused by a form of gattyaki I did for another video.  These spots were not caused by dread vertical as far as I can tell and should not count.  The dread vertical makes lines of scratches. 

2) all the scratches that you see are indelible by the tennis ball polish.  The beginning of the video shows a stadium that was just polished by a tennis ball. 

3) the more prominent scratches do make the stadium floor feel a bit rougher.  

Obviously, stadium wear and tear is inevitable as you play in it.  However a completely horizontal launch like the dread vertical does seem to scratch up and rough up the stadium quickly.  

Is it a big deal?  What do you think?
Oct. 20, 2020  6:45 PM
 
Personally, i think that its not the biggest deal as long as the scratches don't trap beys in them/cause their patterns to differ. Dread vertical is bad though. it could easily cause deep scratches in the stadium.
My beywarrior stadium i use has mainly wall tear and a few bumps at the tornado ridge but the beys spin actually fine (well, anything not using mobius 2d... or mobius in general.. or 2D in general for that matter), so i think a minor dent is fine.
especially if the dent is caused by a part like operate, quake or power. if power is on a heavy enough combo (E.G. Tempest Solomon (MCC).Pw 2D) it would definitely make too big of a dent.
Oct. 20, 2020  7:06 PM
 
Additional note:

This video used World as the primary contact with the stadium floor, basically because I value my stadiums to some degree.  Of course, the damage could be more severe with other more aggressive layers/rings/chassis/disks/frames.  However, some of those more aggressive shape might not give you a very effective dread vertical
Oct. 20, 2020  7:08 PM
 
(Oct. 20, 2020  7:06 PM)Shindog Wrote: Additional note:

This video used World as the primary contact with the stadium floor, basically because I value my stadiums to some degree.  Of course, the damage could be more severe with other more aggressive layers/rings/chassis/disks/frames.  However, some of those more aggressive shape might not give you a very effective dread vertical

Yeah true.
Oct. 20, 2020  7:11 PM
 
(Oct. 20, 2020  7:06 PM)Shindog Wrote: Additional note:

This video used World as the primary contact with the stadium floor, basically because I value my stadiums to some degree.  Of course, the damage could be more severe with other more aggressive layers/rings/chassis/disks/frames.  However, some of those more aggressive shape might not give you a very effective dread vertical

Rage 3A, Death 1A, Super/First 1A are a few examples that would wreck hell and havoc on a stadium floor, just imagining rage do that is frightening
Oct. 20, 2020  7:19 PM
 
(Oct. 20, 2020  7:11 PM)LeonidasKerbeus Wrote:
(Oct. 20, 2020  7:06 PM)Shindog Wrote: Additional note:

This video used World as the primary contact with the stadium floor, basically because I value my stadiums to some degree.  Of course, the damage could be more severe with other more aggressive layers/rings/chassis/disks/frames.  However, some of those more aggressive shape might not give you a very effective dread vertical

Rage 3A, Death 1A, Super/First 1A are a few examples that would wreck hell and havoc on a stadium floor, just imagining rage do that is frightening
I tried rage before on my stadium that has a million scratches it’s the loudest thing on earth.
Oct. 20, 2020  10:37 PM
 
I am kind of thinking in the context of WBO tournaments.  Do people feel comfortable doing this on other people’s stadiums?  Or do organizers feel comfortable letting players perform this move on their stadiums?  it is one thing to chose to do this on your own stadium, and it is true that stadium gets damaged with use over time no matter what.  Just curious as to what people think.
Oct. 20, 2020  11:03 PM
 
(Oct. 20, 2020  10:37 PM)Shindog Wrote: I am kind of thinking in the context of WBO tournaments.  Do people feel comfortable doing this on other people’s stadiums?  Or do organizers feel comfortable letting players perform this move on their stadiums?  it is one thing to chose to do this on your own stadium, and it is true that stadium gets damaged with use over time no matter what.  Just curious as to what people think.

I wouldn't be comfortable doing this in my own stadium, and if others did it in my stadium, I'd probably stop bringing it to tournaments.
The wear and tear from normal use (drivers on the stadium floor) is minimal at best, save for heavyweight combos on metal drivers.
Oct. 20, 2020  11:06 PM
 
(Oct. 20, 2020  10:37 PM)Shindog Wrote: I am kind of thinking in the context of WBO tournaments.  Do people feel comfortable doing this on other people’s stadiums?  Or do organizers feel comfortable letting players perform this move on their stadiums?  it is one thing to chose to do this on your own stadium, and it is true that stadium gets damaged with use over time no matter what.  Just curious as to what people think.
Is there a rule there should be no dread verticals because if not there should be a rule that if a player wants to perform dread verticals during a tournament the organizer/ person who owns the stadium lost approve of it. Even though people probably won’t use dread vertical in a tournament it should still be enforced
Oct. 21, 2020  9:20 AM
 
If only a few launches can already cause marks or even rougher spots, I would start questioning if a player tries a Dread Vertical.
Is it even a viable strategy, or just a meme? Is it worth doing at the cost of potentially someone's stadium getting scuffed up?

I understand parts breakage is inevitable in Beyblade, but trying to minimize wear and tear should be a community effort, especially for shared assets such as stadiums.
Oct. 21, 2020  10:38 AM
 
I would have said that our intention as an organization has never been for a BeyWheel/Dread Vertical launch to be legal. Reading through, we certainly don't have rules to cover it, but it's always been something that we just expect couldn't, wouldn't and shouldn't happen at any event. Same as doing crazy "Tyson Launches" or anything else that is super irregular for standard play, haha.

Ultimately, these wacky tactics break a lot of equipment, some of which don't even belong to those using it. I couldn't fathom someone doing a "Dread Vertical" and scratching a stadium I've brought along to host with, or allowing someone to catapult down a Bey as fast as they could in a "Tyson Launch" strategy and leave a perfectly sizable dent. That just renders the equipment completely useless at that point, and it's also hugely disrespectful to whoever has donated it for use for that event.

I do see a mention of allowing those strategies depending on how the owner of the stadium feels about it, but I do think a single rule should ideally exist and be put in the rulebook to deal with this. I think having something like that could be seen as inconsistent or whimsical, and it's probably best not to let these elements be random in any way. If an Organizer could change their mind at any point, it's not a level playing field at all.

In my opinion, this isn't really a debate of "should it happen", but more "when will this happen and what form will it take". And I can totally see us taking some form of approach that forces Beys to be launched above the stadium and with their axis level to the stadium which, while restrictive, should really clear up any form of weird anime launch technique.

I'm really just surprised we need to outlaw so many of these wacky tactics that we honestly thought were common sense nowadays, haha.
Oct. 21, 2020  11:29 AM
 
Ah well to be really honest it doesnt make sense to have such tactics where the stadium can be damaged. I mean i would not be completely comfortable to share my stadium for tournaments at all.

If i know such tactics exist and are legal why should I have to bring my stadium just to damage it. Just like Mana said i really think this is common sense.
Oct. 21, 2020  4:02 PM
 
(Oct. 21, 2020  10:38 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: I would have said that our intention as an organization has never been for a BeyWheel/Dread Vertical launch to be legal. Reading through, we certainly don't have rules to cover it, but it's always been something that we just expect couldn't, wouldn't and shouldn't happen at any event. Same as doing crazy "Tyson Launches" or anything else that is super irregular for standard play, haha.

Ultimately, these wacky tactics break a lot of equipment, some of which don't even belong to those using it. I couldn't fathom someone doing a "Dread Vertical" and scratching a stadium I've brought along to host with, or allowing someone to catapult down a Bey as fast as they could in a "Tyson Launch" strategy and leave a perfectly sizable dent. That just renders the equipment completely useless at that point, and it's also hugely disrespectful to whoever has donated it for use for that event.

I do see a mention of allowing those strategies depending on how the owner of the stadium feels about it, but I do think a single rule should ideally exist and be put in the rulebook to deal with this. I think having something like that could be seen as inconsistent or whimsical, and it's probably best not to let these elements be random in any way. If an Organizer could change their mind at any point, it's not a level playing field at all.

In my opinion, this isn't really a debate of "should it happen", but more "when will this happen and what form will it take". And I can totally see us taking some form of approach that forces Beys to be launched above the stadium and with their axis level to the stadium which, while restrictive, should really clear up any form of weird anime launch technique.

I'm really just surprised we need to outlaw so many of these wacky tactics that we honestly thought were common sense nowadays, haha.
To be fair, and you might know this already, my apparent incorrect interpretation of the current rule was that this isn’t allowed.  This mostly has to do with the definition of “rolling.”  It was’t until very recently that I was told that “rolling” means a different type of rolling and that dread vertical is suppose to be legal given our current rules.  I thought this was already dealt with with the spinning rule that many have found confusing.  I was actually under the impression that the spinning rule had to be written in a rather confusing way to prevent exactly this type of launch.

Basically,  if we just read the word “rolling” in our current rules in its most common daily life accepted kind of way, I think we are fine at least with dread Vertical.
Oct. 21, 2020  4:03 PM
 
I tried it with cho z spriggan and it wore down the center of the stadium.
Oct. 22, 2020  12:56 AM
 
Dread Vertical scratched my stadium. I didn't try it again tho.
Oct. 22, 2020  3:47 AM
 
(Oct. 21, 2020  10:38 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: I would have said that our intention as an organization has never been for a BeyWheel/Dread Vertical launch to be legal. Reading through, we certainly don't have rules to cover it, but it's always been something that we just expect couldn't, wouldn't and shouldn't happen at any event. Same as doing crazy "Tyson Launches" or anything else that is super irregular for standard play, haha.

Ultimately, these wacky tactics break a lot of equipment, some of which don't even belong to those using it. I couldn't fathom someone doing a "Dread Vertical" and scratching a stadium I've brought along to host with, or allowing someone to catapult down a Bey as fast as they could in a "Tyson Launch" strategy and leave a perfectly sizable dent. That just renders the equipment completely useless at that point, and it's also hugely disrespectful to whoever has donated it for use for that event.

I do see a mention of allowing those strategies depending on how the owner of the stadium feels about it, but I do think a single rule should ideally exist and be put in the rulebook to deal with this. I think having something like that could be seen as inconsistent or whimsical, and it's probably best not to let these elements be random in any way. If an Organizer could change their mind at any point, it's not a level playing field at all.

In my opinion, this isn't really a debate of "should it happen", but more "when will this happen and what form will it take". And I can totally see us taking some form of approach that forces Beys to be launched above the stadium and with their axis level to the stadium which, while restrictive, should really clear up any form of weird anime launch technique.

I'm really just surprised we need to outlaw so many of these wacky tactics that we honestly thought were common sense nowadays, haha.

What's a "Tyson Launch"?
Oct. 22, 2020  4:06 AM
 
Judge: "Excuse me. I notice you're holding your launcher at an angle that is going to release the bey in a way that will cause damage to the stadium. That may not be your intention, but that will be the outcome. You are prohibited from doing this, as it violates the rules against damaging other people's equipment. Please correct your launch angle so that the tip is what makes contact with the stadium upon release.

If you really want to launch at that angle, in this stadium which has my name written on it in several places, then this launch will cost you $50, before you launch it. I will need to purchase a replacement stadium if you launch that way into it. Or you could launch it with the tip pointing down, for free. Your choice."
Oct. 22, 2020  4:56 AM
 
(Oct. 22, 2020  4:06 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: Judge: "Excuse me. I notice you're holding your launcher at an angle that is going to release the bey in a way that will cause damage to the stadium. That may not be your intention, but that will be the outcome. You are prohibited from doing this, as it violates the rules against damaging other people's equipment. Please correct your launch angle so that the tip is what makes contact with the stadium upon release.

If you really want to launch at that angle, in this stadium which has my name written on it in several places, then this launch will cost you $50, before you launch it. I will need to purchase a replacement stadium if you launch that way into it. Or you could launch it with the tip pointing down, for free. Your choice."
Glad to see you again. Epic comment as well.
Oct. 22, 2020  9:15 AM
 
I can't understand why people play beyblade vertical spin?
it easy to spin finish and make beyblade and stadium damaged both.
Oct. 22, 2020  9:38 AM
 
(Oct. 22, 2020  9:15 AM)marutti Wrote: I can't understand why people play beyblade vertical spin?
it easy to spin finish and  make beyblade and stadium damaged both.
Probably because it looks cool.
Oct. 22, 2020  10:15 AM
 
(Oct. 22, 2020  3:47 AM)BeybladeManiac0 Wrote: What's a "Tyson Launch"?

This beautiful running launch technique. Fairly similar to some of the run-up launches you see in the Burst series nowadays to be honest, just most people associate it with Tyson/Takao instead, haha.
Oct. 22, 2020  4:54 PM
 
Would Stadium damage still be possible even without using Dread?
Oct. 22, 2020  4:57 PM
 
Does Dread Vertical also wear down the bey?
Oct. 28, 2020  10:24 AM
 
(Oct. 22, 2020  4:57 PM)UnionDragon007 Wrote: Does Dread Vertical also wear down the bey?

I used to be a knife salesman, and one of the bigger things they taught during orientation was that the softer surface takes far more damage from contact. It's why they highly suggested softer plastic or wooden cutting boards that get scratched up over time, so that your knives wouldn't dull as quickly as they would on something like a glass cutting board that doesn't take any scratches at all. Seriously, glass cutting boards will destroy your cutlery faster than you'd expect.

The same thing applies here: Your Bey is the "knife", and if it's denting the stadium then the bey will take far, far less damage than the softer stadium is. Your bey is still taking a little damage, any form of contact will do that to at least some tiny amount, but it's overall so little that it's rather moot for TT layers and will still easily outlast the stadium surface. Might not be as good for your frames or GT disks though. Frames aren't as hard as the TT layers are (I dented a Wall frame by dropping it from a whole 3 feet in the air), and Hasbro beys are prone to denting no matter what.

tl;dr Yes, but it's far less than the stadium does.

Either way, I definitely don't want to see people "Dread Verticalling" in my stadiums. If they scrape a little by accident well that happens, but intentionally doing that is just a bad idea in so many ways already without even considering stadium damage.