World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade General

Why F230 CF/GCF breaks the game

Poll: What should be done about F230?

Ban it altogether
15.79%
15
Ban it to some extent
34.74%
33
Leave it alone
49.47%
47
Total: 100% 95 vote(s)
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Jan. 18, 2014  3:10 PM
 
so you re suggesting WSF?
Jan. 18, 2014  3:13 PM
 
Not suggesting without test results, of course.
Jan. 18, 2014  3:15 PM
 
(Jan. 18, 2014  3:07 PM)Shining Dog MS Wrote: Lulz. I am an experienced F230GCF user, but I see NO problem with it in Zero-G. As I said before, I got wrecked in the BB-10 by some wacky combos. After Synchrom Saturday ended, we decided to have a fun Zero-G tournament. I used F230GCF one time and admit that I won. But then I switched to Duo SA165BWD, faced Dragooon F230GCF and won 3-0.

The way I see it, SA165WSF users can take F230GCF/CF a run for the money. ESPECIALLY if you weak launch an bank.

If you lost to Duo BWD, then you either weren't against an orange F230, or the orange F230 was messed up. Testing and tournament results confirm that Dragooon F230 can easily take down Duo SA165 combinations of any kind.

You lost to that custom because you didn't weak launch near the center (plus, it was in BB-10, which is completely irrelevant to the discussion).
Jan. 18, 2014  3:16 PM
 
Erm, I believe it was an orange F230. Has anyone tried out SA165WSF vs this?
Jan. 18, 2014  3:19 PM
 
Yes. Doesn't work. Not even with Wyvang/Balro.

EDIT: Even so, Dragooon SA165WSF is complete trash against the entire meta.
Jan. 18, 2014  3:22 PM
 
All right. Then I have a proposal. We should ban it to certain regions. Like in NC, Dragooon F230GCF/CF is broken over there, so ban it for some time and see how it works. That's basically where F230GCF/CF is broken except in AN, so I suggest banning it there too.
Jan. 18, 2014  3:29 PM
 
I honestly don't think it needs banned. I'll admit, it does kinda ruin the Format, but a Beyblade isn't always that powerful. I see where you're coming from though. I've seen it in winning combinations a load of times. Um... This Dragooon F230CF/GCF spins in Left-Spin, right? Has anyone tried a Left-Spin attacker? Pretty much, its like Gravity can thrash Meteo due to Meteo's light weight and Gravity quite the power. If it's getting to "Game Breaking Results!" why do people keep using it, haha. Every Beyblade I've battled, there's always a counter. You just need to find it. Even the poll has more "Leave It" Then ban it. I'm one of them. What I'm trying to say is, there must be a counter. Try some heavy weight Left-Spin Attacker.

Oh, and sorry if I'm totally wrong, haha. I'm not really that used to the Zero-G Format.
Jan. 18, 2014  3:59 PM
 
(Jan. 18, 2014  2:46 PM)*Aquamarine* Wrote: Duo F230 Loses against Duo SA165
Dragooon F230 loses against Revizer Dragooon
This is only my experience from attending tournaments but, I agree. I do remember this, Me and Pockyx3 had this battle, I was using MSF-L Genbull Dragoon F230CF and he was using Reviser Dragoon BGrin. He won 3-2. I only won by sway.
Jan. 18, 2014  4:15 PM
 
Then you probably should've launched more agressively. I've had tournament experience where just the opposite has happened. I direct you to the testing above.

@"L": I've been searching for a counter for 7 months. I've tried literally every concept I could possibly think of.

You can't KO easily at all in a Zero-G stadium, especially if the use is weak-launching.

It is broken. If the user knows how to launch it right, it will win against virtually anything.

@Shining: The only reason it hasn't completely taken over the entire tournament world yet is because 1) the users don't know how to launch it right (which is the absolute biggest reason), and 2) Nobody is willing to abuse it. If someone made up their mind to go through a tournament using just Dragooon F230, they would win.

Regardless, you can't ban things regionally. If it's broken in NC, it'll be broken everywhere else. If someone from North Carolina traveled somewhere for a Zero-G tournament, they would spam F230 and win.

If actually happened in Maryland. Some random kid who had never placed before got lucky enough to pull an orange F230 from a booster, and he swept the tournament and went undefeated with Arupaeo, geester99, Stars, Tech, and Sniper all playing against him.
Jan. 18, 2014  4:27 PM
 
The Black Dragon: Erm, sorry for butting in on the conversation but I propose to ban it like Shining God MS said, I admit that I have seen some very powerful F230 GCF combos so until there comes a day where someone does do a testing that beats it and the combo is good against other combos, I think that the combo of Dragoon F230 GCF in a zero G stadium should be banned where it's used most competitively. I'll PM you my further reasoning if you ask for it
Jan. 18, 2014  4:56 PM
 
(Jan. 18, 2014  4:27 PM)Triforceblader Wrote: The Black Dragon: Erm, sorry for butting in on the conversation but I propose to ban it like Shining God MS said, I admit that I have seen some very powerful F230 GCF combos so until there comes a day where someone does do a testing that beats it and the combo is good against other combos, I think that the combo of Dragoon F230 GCF in a zero G stadium should be banned where it's used most competitively. I'll PM you my further reasoning if you ask for it

Exactly, what I wa sthinking, it would be irrelevant to ban it here, I have used Wvang Dragooon F230GCF and Duo F230GCF in a tournament however I only got 4th. In North Carolina, It's a different story and it should be banned there.
Jan. 18, 2014  4:59 PM
 
Only banning certain parts in a certain area? I don't think so ...

That would be very unfair really. I really don't understand why this thing isn't banned in Zero G already.
Jan. 18, 2014  6:17 PM
 
(Jan. 18, 2014  4:15 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: Then you probably should've launched more agressively. I've had tournament experience where just the opposite has happened. I direct you to the testing above.

@"L": I've been searching for a counter for 7 months. I've tried literally every concept I could possibly think of.

You can't KO easily at all in a Zero-G stadium, especially if the use is weak-launching.

It is broken. If the user knows how to launch it right, it will win against virtually anything.

@Shining: The only reason it hasn't completely taken over the entire tournament world yet is because 1) the users don't know how to launch it right (which is the absolute biggest reason), and 2) Nobody is willing to abuse it. If someone made up their mind to go through a tournament using just Dragooon F230, they would win.

Regardless, you can't ban things regionally. If it's broken in NC, it'll be broken everywhere else. If someone from North Carolina traveled somewhere for a Zero-G tournament, they would spam F230 and win.

If actually happened in Maryland. Some random kid who had never placed before got lucky enough to pull an orange F230 from a booster, and he swept the tournament and went undefeated with Arupaeo, geester99, Stars, Tech, and Sniper all playing against him.

I haven't voted because I don't have any *valid* argument about it being banned or not.

@Theblackdragon: What about Revizer^2/Genbull^2 BGrin? (LOL i suggested Revizer^2 BGrin twice already)

I thought Revizer's smooth notches (you have to look closely to notice them, though i'm not sure if that was only mine or all Revizer's share the same characteristic..) would prevent Dragooon from getting a grip on Revizer (Genbull was basically smooth-bored [LOL again] all over so spin-stealers never stood a chance against it according to my experience).

As for the Maryland, why did i get the notion you meant beymaster15963? (sorry for calling names, i was just curious). I am seriously surprised though, that someone could *literally* win with five of the world's most Bladers in a meta, with the help of only ONE part (hence my 50-50 stance on the matter.)
Jan. 18, 2014  6:22 PM
 
(Jan. 18, 2014  6:17 PM)RDF3 Wrote:
(Jan. 18, 2014  4:15 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: Then you probably should've launched more agressively. I've had tournament experience where just the opposite has happened. I direct you to the testing above.

@"L": I've been searching for a counter for 7 months. I've tried literally every concept I could possibly think of.

You can't KO easily at all in a Zero-G stadium, especially if the use is weak-launching.

It is broken. If the user knows how to launch it right, it will win against virtually anything.

@Shining: The only reason it hasn't completely taken over the entire tournament world yet is because 1) the users don't know how to launch it right (which is the absolute biggest reason), and 2) Nobody is willing to abuse it. If someone made up their mind to go through a tournament using just Dragooon F230, they would win.

Regardless, you can't ban things regionally. If it's broken in NC, it'll be broken everywhere else. If someone from North Carolina traveled somewhere for a Zero-G tournament, they would spam F230 and win.

If actually happened in Maryland. Some random kid who had never placed before got lucky enough to pull an orange F230 from a booster, and he swept the tournament and went undefeated with Arupaeo, geester99, Stars, Tech, and Sniper all playing against him.

I haven't voted because I don't have any *valid* argument about it being banned or not.

@Theblackdragon: What about Revizer^2/Genbull^2 BGrin? (LOL i suggested Revizer^2 BGrin twice already)

I thought Revizer's smooth notches (you have to look closely to notice them, though i'm not sure if that was only mine or all Revizer's share the same characteristic..) would prevent Dragooon from getting a grip on Revizer (Genbull was basically smooth-bored [LOL again] all over so spin-stealers never stood a chance against it according to my experience).

As for the Maryland, why did i get the notion you meant beymaster15963? (sorry for calling names, i was just curious). I am seriously surprised though, that someone could *literally* win with five of the world's most Bladers in a meta, with the help of only ONE part (hence my 50-50 stance on the matter.)
I remember a battle like this at one of the tournaments i've attended. It was me versing another member (OrionBlade). I was using MSF-L Genbull Dragoon F230CF and He was using Reviser^2 BGrin. I won 3-0.
Jan. 18, 2014  6:26 PM
 
@MidnightLWBO: That's quite odd. Was it in BB-10 or Zero-G? From my experience that should have worked. How did you launch it?
Jan. 18, 2014  6:31 PM
 
(Jan. 18, 2014  6:26 PM)RDF3 Wrote: @MidnightLWBO: That's quite odd. Was it in BB-10 or Zero-G? From my experience that should have worked. How did you launch it?
Just a normal launch. Also, it was in a BB-10.
Jan. 18, 2014  7:02 PM
 
(Jan. 18, 2014  4:15 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: If actually happened in Maryland. Some random kid who had never placed before got lucky enough to pull an orange F230 from a booster, and he swept the tournament and went undefeated with Arupaeo, geester99, Stars, Tech, and Sniper all playing against him.

That isn't entirely true. F230 wasn't really explored in MD before then, so it mainly took us all by surprise. It is kinda hard to find a counter to something during a tournament, haha.

Anyways, we are able to beat F230 in MD relatively easily ...

Try out Duo SA165TB is you have time TheBlackDragon. I am able to get pretty good results against Dragooon F230 with it.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:05 PM
 
Guys, I think I did it. Something in theblackdragon's thread gave me this idea and thanks to being a blader friend's house when I read it, I was able to test it immediately.

MSF Balro Dragooon SA165 (Zero-G Attack Mode) FB

The somewhat erratic movement of FB allows the custom is a whole to take some advantage of sway attack and go ham on Genbull Dragooon F230 GCF

BD vs. GD
BD wins: 70% (8 OS, 6 KO)
GD wins: 30% (3 OS, 3 KO)

Others please test this quickly, no idea if my results were biased based on some circumstance or other, but if others can duplicate these results, we may have something on our hands.

Even if this proves to be an effective counter, I am still entirely in favor of banning it. The only reason I am still searching for a counter at this point is for the sake of giving us something to work with in the transition period between F230 CF/GCF being banned.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:07 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:05 PM)Time Wrote: Guys, I think I did it. Something in theblackdragon's thread gave me this idea and thanks to being a blader friend's house when I read it, I was able to test it immediately.

MSF Balro Dragooon SA165 (Zero-G Attack Mode) FB

The somewhat erratic movement of FB allows the custom is a whole to take some advantage of sway attack and go ham on Genbull Dragooon F230 GCF

BD vs. GD
BD wins: 70% (8 OS, 6 KO)
GD wins: 30% (3 OS, 3 KO)

Others please test this quickly, no idea if my results were biased based on some circumstance or other, but if others can duplicate these results, we may have something on our hands.

Wow, this is great. Hopefully showing we don't need a ban.

I'll test it for myself this afternoon.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:09 PM
 
Thats certainly interesting, but:

Spoiler (Click to View)
If these two questions are good yes we HAVE SOMETHING IN OUR HANDS.

EDIT: Beaten by Leone19 LOL
EDIT 2: I hope TBD has time to test it!
Feb. 15, 2014  6:10 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:09 PM)RDF3 Wrote: Thats certainly interesting, but:

Spoiler (Click to View)
If these two questions are good yes we HAVE SOMETHING IN OUR HANDS.

Yes, you should watch the videos.

You really need to read the arguement, because this thread would defenitely not have even be made if it wasn't good against the meta.

Edit: Oh, I hadn't even seen Time's post. Lol.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:13 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:10 PM)TheWhiteTiger Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:09 PM)RDF3 Wrote: Thats certainly interesting, but:

Spoiler (Click to View)
If these two questions are good yes we HAVE SOMETHING IN OUR HANDS.

Yes, you should watch the videos.

You really need to read the arguement, because this thread would defenitely not have even be made if it wasn't good against the meta, plus this isn't a counter.
what videos? I don't see any in Times post. He is talking about Time's new attempt at a counter.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:19 PM
 
1. Some of the posts are starting to get this topic off track. Stay on topic or take it to PM.

2. For a combo to be viable it has to be able to beat more then just F230 CF. There are certain combos that have a better win rate then others against this combo but lose against everything else. F230 is simply unhealthy for the Zero G meta at this time. Look at the winning combo thread for example. In almost every Zero G meta F230 CF combos pop up. Ill be doing some testing myself this afternoon. But Im still in favor of banning it completely.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:23 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:19 PM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: 1. Some of the posts are starting to get this topic off track. Stay on topic or take it to PM.

2. For a combo to be viable it has to be able to beat more then just F230 CF. There are certain combos that have a better win rate then others against this combo but lose against everything else. F230 is simply unhealthy for the Zero G meta at this time. Look at the winning combo thread for example. In almost every Zero G meta F230 CF combos pop up. Ill be doing some testing myself this afternoon. But Im still in favor of banning it completely.

But at the same time, it (may be) an effective counter; showing it can more or less consistently defeat F230 CF; showing it may not fully need a ban.

(Note: This is not directed to anyone, just stating this for the sake of it.)I hope many will help test this, to make sure there are no errors/biases from anyone. I'll try this out in a little bit, myself.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:26 PM
 
If one counter that had a nice win rate against it emerged, the format could become even more unhealthy with just -place F230 counter combo here- and F230 CF/GCG combos from every Zero G format tournament.

You'd just lose even more combos being used basically.
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