with the introduction of god layers the meta game has completely changed.the heavy weight of god layers and the fact that they can be used with a metal god chip have made the previous releases compeletly outclassed.i think there should be a limited format for burst where the following parts would be banned:maximum garuda,guardian kerbeus,legend spriiggan,alter chronus,seig xcalibur,drain fafnir,dark deathscyther,4 disk,7 disk ,2 disk,twin nemesis(possibly)and atomic driver basically,any layer or part which is too op to compete with dual and single layers system layers and parts.not only this format will give overlooked parts a chance but will also prompt more testing.this format would be very balanced all imo.
[Unanswered] is it time to make a limited format for burst?
(Sep. 28, 2017 10:29 PM)Rebel Blader Wrote: with the introduction of god layers the meta game has completely changed.the heavy weight of god layers and the fact that they can be used with a metal god chip have made the previous releases compeletly outclassed.i think there should be a limited format for burst where the following parts would be banned:maximum garuda,guardian kerbeus,legend spriiggan,alter chronus,seig xcalibur,drain fafnir,dark deathscyther,4 disk,7 disk ,2 disk,twin nemesis(possibly)and atomic driver basically,any layer or part which is too op to compete with dual and single layers system layers and parts.not only this format will give overlooked parts a chance but will also prompt more testing.this format would be very balanced all imo.definitely agree but i think the disks can stay tbh
(Sep. 29, 2017 1:51 AM)Jimmyjazz39 Wrote:(Sep. 28, 2017 10:29 PM)Rebel Blader Wrote: with the introduction of god layers the meta game has completely changed.the heavy weight of god layers and the fact that they can be used with a metal god chip have made the previous releases compeletly outclassed.i think there should be a limited format for burst where the following parts would be banned:maximum garuda,guardian kerbeus,legend spriiggan,alter chronus,seig xcalibur,drain fafnir,dark deathscyther,4 disk,7 disk ,2 disk,twin nemesis(possibly)and atomic driver basically,any layer or part which is too op to compete with dual and single layers system layers and parts.not only this format will give overlooked parts a chance but will also prompt more testing.this format would be very balanced all imo.definitely agree but i think the disks can stay tbh
Yeah, without the disks it might as well be the old metagame
Besides, the old Layers are light, the new disks and Frames would create insane Burst risk (Maybe 6 can finally find some use in a Limited Format)
I feel the Hasbro-Only Burst format is a good alternative to a Burst Limited format. The game is entirely different and (somewhat) more balanced than the Takara Tomy version of that era of parts was. If Y2 of all things can be a tournament winning part in Hasbro, then I'd say we don't need Burst Limited yet.
not to mention burst limited would literally be a return to the hellhole that was the pre-god layer meta. stamina types everywhere, valkyries getting cavities left and right... yeah could we please not
not to mention burst limited would literally be a return to the hellhole that was the pre-god layer meta. stamina types everywhere, valkyries getting cavities left and right... yeah could we please not
Does Limited format limit the weight? I never understood what it was.
(Sep. 29, 2017 2:02 AM)TrainiacJ Wrote: I feel the Hasbro-Only Burst format is a good alternative to a Burst Limited format. The game is entirely different and (somewhat) more balanced than the Takara Tomy version of that era of parts was. If Y2 of all things can be a tournament winning part in Hasbro, then I'd say we don't need Burst Limited yet.
not to mention burst limited would literally be a return to the hellhole that was the pre-god layer meta. stamina types everywhere, valkyries getting cavities left and right... yeah could we please not
Until beyblade burst evolution. Though Hasbro has nerfed good layers and buffed bad layers (D2 and U2 respectively) in the past. mabey we would get a meta that God and dual layers can share.
(Sep. 29, 2017 2:02 AM)TrainiacJ Wrote: I feel the Hasbro-Only Burst format is a good alternative to a Burst Limited format. The game is entirely different and (somewhat) more balanced than the Takara Tomy version of that era of parts was. If Y2 of all things can be a tournament winning part in Hasbro, then I'd say we don't need Burst Limited yet.Agreed amd I think Hasbro's metagame is more balanced too with stronger attacker (then older TT burst) like R and S2 and comparable stamina/defence type. Though if we have to do it anyways then I think banlist should be like this:-
not to mention burst limited would literally be a return to the hellhole that was the pre-god layer meta. stamina types everywhere, valkyries getting cavities left and right... yeah could we please not
Banned Layers:-
Maximum Garuda (pretty obvious reason due to it's overpowered combination of defence and stamina)
Alter Chronos (too defemsive for light weight of limited)
Blaze Ragnerak (same as aC)
Legend Sprigen (basicly it's nuclear bomb in a pre historic war)
Seigh Xcaliber (same as Little Sprigen)
Drain Fafnir (debatable, as some of Hasbro exclusive attacker like S2 and R2 can beat it)
Disk:-
None or use of core disks (depends. those disk may have differant effect on lighter layers then heavier but if accessiblity is issue then let them be banned)
Driver:-
None (I know what you thinking I will get to that in a movement)
Parts I think shouldn't be banned:-
Guardian Kerbeus:- basiclu because it's not overpowered anyways. We have good enough attacker to deal with it
Dark Deathscyther:- as we have Guardian Kerbeus, Deathscyther and Hasbro Attackers to balance it out
Atomic:- yup I know this might be surprising to hear but really from what I seen it does work only with bR, mG and dF and some stationary attacker so I doubt it will be much problem
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(Sep. 29, 2017 2:07 AM)Spideyblade Wrote: Does Limited format limit the weight? I never understood what it was.yeah and some overpowered parts such as RDF are banned
Edit:- @Rebel Blader,this thread is better in Beyblade Generals as it's not a question
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I'm not sure if it's quite time to create a separate format for Burst Limited just yet, but I do think it is something worth discussing for the time being.
Personally, I agree with most of the banlist Rebel Blader proposed, though I do have a few alterations in mind:
Layers
+Added L2: Until Drain Fafnir and Atomic were released, Lost Longinus 2Glaive Hold was a pretty nasty combo - with a good Hold, there wasn't anything that could beat it consistently - Neptune/Odin/Chaos/Deathscyther Yell Revolve were the only things that stood a chance. With its lighter weight and higher Center of Gravity, the Yell variant was easier to beat (if God Disks get banned, Yell was the next best choice for L2 Hold), but L2 as a whole is a bit too tanky to really keep in the game.
+Added bR:With all of the subsequent God Layers banned, I could easily see Blaze Ragnaruk becoming the go-to Stamina/Defense hybrid, and that combined with its decent Burst Attack would make it a bit too dominant in my opinion.
-Removed gK: I don't own Guardian Kerbeus, but based on what I've heard it doesn't sound banworthy - it's just another Acid Anubis/Deathscyther, a Layer with high Stamina but low Defense. Good, but not dominating or unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination.
-Removed D2: This one I'm still on the fence about - with Atomic out of the picture, D2 would not present as much of a threat as it did in Standard. I could see D2GO or D2GD being formidable combos, but several things (gK, Deathscyther, gV, Odin, (Iron) Stallers, Yell, Defense, and possibly A2) should be able to keep it in check. If it does end up being too powerful, it could always just be re-banned.
Disks
Not too sure if any Disks need to be banned - 4G and 7G are sure popular nowadays but with the near-complete absence of opposite spin with dF and L2 gone I don't know if they'd see as much use. They are significantly heavier than normal Disks, so maybe God Disks should be banned entirely/only be allowed to used without a Frame? I've personally found naked 4 to have around Knuckle-level Burst resistance. What is everyone else's thoughts on this?
Drivers
Atomic is definitely an overcentralizing part of Standard format - it's currently the best Driver for Destabilization and Precession, has the raw Stamina to outspin Defense, and also has some decent Burst Attack to boot.
I also think that a Burst Limited that removes a lot of the overpowered God Parts would give some more underappreciated or overlooked Takara-Tomy parts (Weight, G2, Q2, Down, Z2, and kS are a few examples) a chance to be useful, as well as opening up the playing field to the oodles of Hasbro releases that have been ignored just because somehow people got it into their heads that "Hasbro makes a poor product". Spryzen S2 has shown potential as a Mixed Attacker, and supposedly Roktavor has about the same amount of Burst Attack as TT Valkyrie without the wearing issues. There's bound to be more Metal Fury Scythes waiting to be discovered.
Saying that Hasbro's Burst sucks because it can't compete with current TT releases is basically the same as saying "Hasbro's MFB sucks, Gravity Destroyer and Ray Striker can't beat Duo/Flash/LDG/Diablo at all".
Personally, I agree with most of the banlist Rebel Blader proposed, though I do have a few alterations in mind:
Layers
- Maximum Garuda
- Legend Spriggan
- Seig Xcalibur
- Alter Chronos
- Drain Fafnir
- Lost Longinus
- Blaze Ragnaruk
+Added L2: Until Drain Fafnir and Atomic were released, Lost Longinus 2Glaive Hold was a pretty nasty combo - with a good Hold, there wasn't anything that could beat it consistently - Neptune/Odin/Chaos/Deathscyther Yell Revolve were the only things that stood a chance. With its lighter weight and higher Center of Gravity, the Yell variant was easier to beat (if God Disks get banned, Yell was the next best choice for L2 Hold), but L2 as a whole is a bit too tanky to really keep in the game.
+Added bR:With all of the subsequent God Layers banned, I could easily see Blaze Ragnaruk becoming the go-to Stamina/Defense hybrid, and that combined with its decent Burst Attack would make it a bit too dominant in my opinion.
-Removed gK: I don't own Guardian Kerbeus, but based on what I've heard it doesn't sound banworthy - it's just another Acid Anubis/Deathscyther, a Layer with high Stamina but low Defense. Good, but not dominating or unbeatable by any stretch of the imagination.
-Removed D2: This one I'm still on the fence about - with Atomic out of the picture, D2 would not present as much of a threat as it did in Standard. I could see D2GO or D2GD being formidable combos, but several things (gK, Deathscyther, gV, Odin, (Iron) Stallers, Yell, Defense, and possibly A2) should be able to keep it in check. If it does end up being too powerful, it could always just be re-banned.
Disks
- 7(Glaive)?
- 4(Glaive)?
Not too sure if any Disks need to be banned - 4G and 7G are sure popular nowadays but with the near-complete absence of opposite spin with dF and L2 gone I don't know if they'd see as much use. They are significantly heavier than normal Disks, so maybe God Disks should be banned entirely/only be allowed to used without a Frame? I've personally found naked 4 to have around Knuckle-level Burst resistance. What is everyone else's thoughts on this?
Drivers
- Atomic
Atomic is definitely an overcentralizing part of Standard format - it's currently the best Driver for Destabilization and Precession, has the raw Stamina to outspin Defense, and also has some decent Burst Attack to boot.
I also think that a Burst Limited that removes a lot of the overpowered God Parts would give some more underappreciated or overlooked Takara-Tomy parts (Weight, G2, Q2, Down, Z2, and kS are a few examples) a chance to be useful, as well as opening up the playing field to the oodles of Hasbro releases that have been ignored just because somehow people got it into their heads that "Hasbro makes a poor product". Spryzen S2 has shown potential as a Mixed Attacker, and supposedly Roktavor has about the same amount of Burst Attack as TT Valkyrie without the wearing issues. There's bound to be more Metal Fury Scythes waiting to be discovered.
Saying that Hasbro's Burst sucks because it can't compete with current TT releases is basically the same as saying "Hasbro's MFB sucks, Gravity Destroyer and Ray Striker can't beat Duo/Flash/LDG/Diablo at all".
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thank u everyone for telling ur opinions.i would say yea blaze ragnarok is op a bit but it wont be that big of a problem when atomic would be banned bR plus atomic was able to bet revolve based combos but i dont think bR orbit would be the same,seeing how hasbro s2 managed to get a good percentage against bR in wombats testing if it becomes a problem we could simply add gK with a mould god chip in limited format to counter it but i dont think bR would be that op.as for the disks i would say banning 2/4/7 would give overlooked disks like 8/6 a chance.i proposed to ban atomic since its like a ultimate driver and yea it should be banned.D2 should not be un banned since it can defeat attack and has good defense and stamina.L2 would not cause problem as it is weak against bR.imo the format wont be unbalanced i mean look:
attack: for attack we would have hasbro S2,both Z2s,both I2s,hasbro R,L2 and hasbro R2,V2,V,both Xs,B2 and maybe even bR.all of them can definately beat things like odin/wyvern /deathcyther/neptune revolve
stamina:i guess A2 and D would be the top layers for stamina which could easily be beaten by the attack mentioned above
defense/stamina hybrids: these would include odin/neptune and wyvern revolve combos which would be popular but wont be spammed since the attack mentioned can defeat them.i heard X is good against N.W is weak against V and V2,R.and odin is weak against bR.
balance: the popular balance combo would be bR orbit but it would be a defense type with a chance against stamina types.and seeing that bR is useless on revolve and will only find use on orbit or defense i am quite sure that stallers would be able to beat it since it has bad stamina.
if after all this the limited format becomes unbalanced then allowing to limited gK would definately balance things out. i would say that one more advantage gained from the limited format would be that overlooked hasbro parts would be tested and hasbro has a ton of good attack layers that havent been tested yet.for all saying gK is not op it does have bad defense but with a a mould god chip it gets very good defense even bR can not beat gK combos with a a mould godchip.if even after gK things do not get balnced then i believe allowing sX without MGC would balance things out.
attack: for attack we would have hasbro S2,both Z2s,both I2s,hasbro R,L2 and hasbro R2,V2,V,both Xs,B2 and maybe even bR.all of them can definately beat things like odin/wyvern /deathcyther/neptune revolve
stamina:i guess A2 and D would be the top layers for stamina which could easily be beaten by the attack mentioned above
defense/stamina hybrids: these would include odin/neptune and wyvern revolve combos which would be popular but wont be spammed since the attack mentioned can defeat them.i heard X is good against N.W is weak against V and V2,R.and odin is weak against bR.
balance: the popular balance combo would be bR orbit but it would be a defense type with a chance against stamina types.and seeing that bR is useless on revolve and will only find use on orbit or defense i am quite sure that stallers would be able to beat it since it has bad stamina.
if after all this the limited format becomes unbalanced then allowing to limited gK would definately balance things out. i would say that one more advantage gained from the limited format would be that overlooked hasbro parts would be tested and hasbro has a ton of good attack layers that havent been tested yet.for all saying gK is not op it does have bad defense but with a a mould god chip it gets very good defense even bR can not beat gK combos with a a mould godchip.if even after gK things do not get balnced then i believe allowing sX without MGC would balance things out.
(Sep. 29, 2017 8:44 AM)Rebel Blader Wrote: thank u everyone for telling ur opinions.i would say yea blaze ragnarok is op a bit but it wont be that big of a problem when atomic would be banned bR plus atomic was able to bet revolve based combos but i dont think bR orbit would be the same,seeing how hasbro s2 managed to get a good percentage against bR in wombats testing if it becomes a problem we could simply add gK with a mould god chip in limited format to counter it but i dont think bR would be that op.as for the disks i would say banning 2/4/7 would give overlooked disks like 8/6 a chance.i proposed to ban atomic since its like a ultimate driver and yea it should be banned.D2 should not be un banned since it can defeat attack and has good defense and stamina.L2 would not cause problem as it is weak against bR.imo the format wont be unbalanced i mean look:Though if bR doesn't beat it doesn't mean a dedicated attacker can't ethier. I don't have any experince with gK but it's shape looks like may make it bit KO proneif it and if layers like R (has) can beat Drain Fafnir then I don't think it will have much problem with gK.
attack: for attack we would have hasbro S2,both Z2s,both I2s,hasbro R,L2 and hasbro R2,V2,V,both Xs,B2 and maybe even bR.all of them can definately beat things like odin/wyvern /deathcyther/neptune revolve
stamina:i guess A2 and D would be the top layers for stamina which could easily be beaten by the attack mentioned above
defense/stamina hybrids: these would include odin/neptune and wyvern revolve combos which would be popular but wont be spammed since the attack mentioned can defeat them.i heard X is good against N.W is weak against V and V2,R.and odin is weak against bR.
balance: the popular balance combo would be bR orbit but it would be a defense type with a chance against stamina types.and seeing that bR is useless on revolve and will only find use on orbit or defense i am quite sure that stallers would be able to beat it since it has bad stamina.
if after all this the limited format becomes unbalanced then allowing to limited gK would definately balance things out. i would say that one more advantage gained from the limited format would be that overlooked hasbro parts would be tested and hasbro has a ton of good attack layers that havent been tested yet.for all saying gK is not op it does have bad defense but with a a mould god chip it gets very good defense even bR can not beat gK combos with a a mould godchip.if even after gK things do not get balnced then i believe allowing sX without MGC would balance things out.
(Sep. 29, 2017 12:00 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote:(Sep. 29, 2017 8:44 AM)Rebel Blader Wrote: thank u everyone for telling ur opinions.i would say yea blaze ragnarok is op a bit but it wont be that big of a problem when atomic would be banned bR plus atomic was able to bet revolve based combos but i dont think bR orbit would be the same,seeing how hasbro s2 managed to get a good percentage against bR in wombats testing if it becomes a problem we could simply add gK with a mould god chip in limited format to counter it but i dont think bR would be that op.as for the disks i would say banning 2/4/7 would give overlooked disks like 8/6 a chance.i proposed to ban atomic since its like a ultimate driver and yea it should be banned.D2 should not be un banned since it can defeat attack and has good defense and stamina.L2 would not cause problem as it is weak against bR.imo the format wont be unbalanced i mean look:Though if bR doesn't beat it doesn't mean a dedicated attacker can't ethier. I don't have any experince with gK but it's shape looks like may make it bit KO proneif it and if layers like R (has) can beat Drain Fafnir then I don't think it will have much problem with gK.
attack: for attack we would have hasbro S2,both Z2s,both I2s,hasbro R,L2 and hasbro R2,V2,V,both Xs,B2 and maybe even bR.all of them can definately beat things like odin/wyvern /deathcyther/neptune revolve
stamina:i guess A2 and D would be the top layers for stamina which could easily be beaten by the attack mentioned above
defense/stamina hybrids: these would include odin/neptune and wyvern revolve combos which would be popular but wont be spammed since the attack mentioned can defeat them.i heard X is good against N.W is weak against V and V2,R.and odin is weak against bR.
balance: the popular balance combo would be bR orbit but it would be a defense type with a chance against stamina types.and seeing that bR is useless on revolve and will only find use on orbit or defense i am quite sure that stallers would be able to beat it since it has bad stamina.
if after all this the limited format becomes unbalanced then allowing to limited gK would definately balance things out. i would say that one more advantage gained from the limited format would be that overlooked hasbro parts would be tested and hasbro has a ton of good attack layers that havent been tested yet.for all saying gK is not op it does have bad defense but with a a mould god chip it gets very good defense even bR can not beat gK combos with a a mould godchip.if even after gK things do not get balnced then i believe allowing sX without MGC would balance things out.
i get ur point and i agree that gK can be allowed in the limited format but the reason i dont want it there is becuz its already popular in the standard format and using it in the limited format will render deathscyther and a2 obselete.
True I agree @Rebel Blader. though I think we still need to test stuff like D on Atomic and newer driver (which is why I want it to be unbanned) who knows they might OS gK.
Edit:- PUT DAT gZ In Jail. as for L2 I tbh dunno but it definately seems treat to most attackers
Edit:- PUT DAT gZ In Jail. as for L2 I tbh dunno but it definately seems treat to most attackers
(Sep. 29, 2017 12:18 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: True I agree @Rebel Blader. though I think we still need to test stuff like D on Atomic and newer driver (which is why I want it to be unbanned) who knows they might OS gK.
Edit:- PUT DAT gZ In Jail. as for L2 I tbh dunno but it definately seems treat to most attackers
yea gZ is too op.L2 is fine since bR would take care of it. i dont think D on atomic would be that good to outspin gK since it has no slopes and even aC and D2 cant destabilize gK .also tomic would definately be banned in limited
Not to be too much of a downer but, I think it would be way too early to think of burst with a "Limited Format" since Takara Tomy is still releasing new parts. Who knows what will be released that could potentially make even current beys we are using so obsolete that they too would fall under "Limited Format" criteria. Also, while Hasbro-only format seems valid only at this very point in time – they are releasing mG after all, and that can shake up the game quite a bit depending on how strong the slope is.
MFB had a ton of dead on arrival parts that were heavily outclassed with every subsequent release causing a huge shakeup on part power and weight creep! While burst has been much more tame on this by releasing with a much slower ramp-up – I can easily see burst following the same route in releases to come. If we even look back at the near-past where WBO banned both Odin and D/D2 because they were "too strong" – those parts are now nearly obsolete to current beys and wouldn't even be considered format threatening.
Limited Format for MFB was only created way after the release of every single piece in the series. Being able to look at all the parts from a broad scope allows players and organizers to properly access if another format even needs to exist and what should be banned. Looking at the Limited format now only gives a narrow scope into what the game could potentially become and would only allow us to ban what we feel would be "too strong" at the present time.
Will a "Limited Format" exist in the future? Yes, most likely.
Can we even begin to conceptualize or even talk about specific parts for that list? No, it's unfortunately way too soon!
MFB had a ton of dead on arrival parts that were heavily outclassed with every subsequent release causing a huge shakeup on part power and weight creep! While burst has been much more tame on this by releasing with a much slower ramp-up – I can easily see burst following the same route in releases to come. If we even look back at the near-past where WBO banned both Odin and D/D2 because they were "too strong" – those parts are now nearly obsolete to current beys and wouldn't even be considered format threatening.
Limited Format for MFB was only created way after the release of every single piece in the series. Being able to look at all the parts from a broad scope allows players and organizers to properly access if another format even needs to exist and what should be banned. Looking at the Limited format now only gives a narrow scope into what the game could potentially become and would only allow us to ban what we feel would be "too strong" at the present time.
Will a "Limited Format" exist in the future? Yes, most likely.
Can we even begin to conceptualize or even talk about specific parts for that list? No, it's unfortunately way too soon!
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(Sep. 29, 2017 12:37 PM)Rebel Blader Wrote:(Sep. 29, 2017 12:18 PM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: True I agree @Rebel Blader. though I think we still need to test stuff like D on Atomic and newer driver (which is why I want it to be unbanned) who knows they might OS gK.
Edit:- PUT DAT gZ In Jail. as for L2 I tbh dunno but it definately seems treat to most attackers
yea gZ is too op.L2 is fine since bR would take care of it. i dont think D on atomic would be that good to outspin gK since it has no slopes and even aC and D2 cant destabilize gK .also tomic would definately be banned in limited
you dont always need slope to destablize. its shape already pretty good to "chip off" stamina from other layer and Atomic's recoil control and movement would go well with it
@junction agreed with you
@junction i agree with u but due to the current meta there are alot of parts which are useless now such as trans, accel,yeilding but i think we should wait
After yesterday, I feel we should probably introduce a format of sorts. At least for beys like maximum garuda and shadow oricalcum/oricalcum. Other than that, the majority of beys at this stage are not as format needing as the likes of the two beys I mentioned.
(Oct. 01, 2017 1:47 PM)Yblader1 Wrote: After yesterday, I feel we should probably introduce a format of sorts. At least for beys like maximum garuda and shadow oricalcum/oricalcum. Other than that, the majority of beys at this stage are not as format needing as the likes of the two beys I mentioned.
I think u mean mG and sO should be banned right?