World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations

Tip Variations and the Way That They Impact Performance

Sep. 15, 2014  3:03 AM
 
Why not though?It has a hole and its flat!
Sep. 15, 2014  3:06 AM
 
(Sep. 15, 2014  3:03 AM)~Emperor_Elite~ Wrote: Why not though?It has a hole and its flat!

It's illegal because it's not TT/Hasbro's original intention of the part and it's like 5x as wide as the real HF Tongue_out.
Sep. 15, 2014  3:13 AM
 
Really?Thanks.Sorry,I didn't mean to be a smart aleck
Sep. 16, 2014  4:35 AM
 
(Sep. 15, 2014  2:59 AM)~Emperor_Elite~ Wrote: If you take the rubber out of RF Does it count as Hole Flat?

=^= no..
You can't take anything apart in MFB and have it be legal.
Sep. 16, 2014  12:37 PM
 
I think that question was answered already...
Sep. 16, 2014  2:02 PM
 
TSO, you put "F vs. MF vs. WF" in the OP, haha.

These results are actually really interesting. Judging the results is kind of difficult because of the setups that you used, though (Duo GB145WB? I mean, the test are still valuable, but MB isn't usually used on mid-height Stamina setups, much less paired with a B-series Bottom).

But, I actually would like to say that I am a proponent of further testing with WB as a potential competitive Stamina Bottom (note that I'm a proponent of testing it, not adding it right away, haha).

The fact that TB usually performs marginally better Stamina-wise on Duo 230 than D or SD for me is a big piece of the puzzle. Another piece is the fact that, during the early weeks following the creation of the Limited sub-forum, my initial testing of Twin Ball on 230 Stamina setups turned out to be a failure.

Now, here's my theory based on the results I've gotten. Because of the heavy weight and "bulky-ness" of competitive Stamina setups these days, they are able to benefit more from and maximize the effects of increased stability than lighter Stamina customizations, which, due to their light weight and less aggressive nature, benefit so little from this increased stability that the general loss of pure Endurance overshadows it.

In a nutshell, it seems to me that heavier combinations in general are more able to take advantage of higher friction with the stadium floor from an Endurance standpoint, which would explain why CS, MB and TB all work so phenomenally on 4D/Zero-G Stamina customizations, while they were never used extensively on lighter combinations.

That said, I think there's a good chance that Wide Ball might have some competitive Stamina application on Tall-Track customs (notably Genbull SR200, which I'm anxious to try out).

That was slightly unrelated to the testing you did with WB, but it still deals with a possible misconception about B-series Bottom, so I was still on topic, right? Tongue_out

As far as MF vs. HF goes on Phantom 90... well, it sounds crazy to me, and I haven't tested it yet so I'll hold my comments until I've actually tried it, haha.

The density of Rubber Flat Botoms has always been up to chance if I'm not mistaken (except in the case of Hasbro's Cosmic Pegasus W105R2F, which was weird). Are you sure your Aquario's RF isn't just a particularly stiff one? I could see a consistent difference being possible, but I'm inclined to doubt it without multiple accounts supporting the idea (I remember somebody said something about the TO Bladers knowing about this - we should ask some of them).
Sep. 16, 2014  10:28 PM
 
(Sep. 16, 2014  2:02 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: TSO, you put "F vs. MF vs. WF" in the OP, haha.

These results are actually really interesting. Judging the results is kind of difficult because of the setups that you used, though (Duo GB145WB? I mean, the test are still valuable, but MB isn't usually used on mid-height Stamina setups, much less paired with a B-series Bottom).

That said, I think there's a good chance that Wide Ball might have some competitive Stamina application on Tall-Track customs (notably Genbull SR200, which I'm anxious to try out).

As far as MF vs. HF goes on Phantom 90... well, it sounds crazy to me, and I haven't tested it yet so I'll hold my comments until I've actually tried it, haha.

The density of Rubber Flat Botoms has always been up to chance if I'm not mistaken (except in the case of Hasbro's Cosmic Pegasus W105R2F, which was weird). Are you sure your Aquario's RF isn't just a particularly stiff one? I could see a consistent difference being possible, but I'm inclined to doubt it without multiple accounts supporting the idea (I remember somebody said something about the TO Bladers knowing about this - we should ask some of them).
Correction noted.

Yeah, I noticed that, just thought it was interesting that MB performed pretty poorly on 145 set-ups. Your theory does make sense though. I like the idea of WB as a stamina bottom myself, but that may need its own thread with all the testing that would have to be done.

Genbull SR200 WB doesn't look too shabby. I'll be a little busy this week, but may do some more comparative tests against more commonly used stamina tips over the weekend.

I'm not saying that HF is better for stalling than MF on Phantom 90, just that it's better for attack because it doesn't ride the ridge the way Phantom does and therefore is more likely to hit a stamina/defense type in the center.

As for the RFs, I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. I recall Switchblayder making a post, a little over a year ago, about how hard his Cyber Aquario RF is compared to other RFs. I think someone else might have agreed with him besides me, but I can't find the post so I'm not positive. If anything, it just proves the inconsistency among RF molds, but it would be nice to get input from other people who own that Beyblade.
Sep. 22, 2014  10:39 PM
 
Got a couple testings utilizing MF-M Burn Cancer 90HF, as I'd still like to look into HF for stall, and in addition to that, a couple of solo spin timings involving the same setup, only with tips WF, F, CF, GCF and HF. That in mind, lets begin!:

Equipment being Used for both the Battles and Solo Spin Timings: (Click to View)

Battle and Solo Spin Timing Notes: (Click to View)

The Battles: (Click to View)

Solo Spin Timings: (Click to View)

TheBlackDragon Wrote:I remember somebody said something about the TO Bladers knowing about this - we should ask some of them.

Well, I just recently made a post about it, also being a Torontonian blader, as well. Could it have been me this member mentioned, or was this before last weekend when I posted?

Midnight Wrote:On the topic of Cyber Aquario's RF, a couple of us Toronto bladers noticed something interested, however, it was probably already looked at and into, as well. Anyhow, throughout today's Beyblade Never Stops, Pyrus10000 was using his throughout one of the matches, and it appeared to be that the RF seemed to feel a lot more like plastic than it did rubber. We ended up comparing to mines from the BB-96, and it felt like a regular one, one you'd get from a stock Storm Pegasis. Of course, the RF was still rubber, though a lot less aggro than a regular one.
Sep. 24, 2014  7:16 PM
 
(Sep. 16, 2014  2:02 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: But, I actually would like to say that I am a proponent of further testing with WB as a potential competitive Stamina Bottom (note that I'm a proponent of testing it, not adding it right away, haha).

The fact that TB usually performs marginally better Stamina-wise on Duo 230 than D or SD for me is a big piece of the puzzle. Another piece is the fact that, during the early weeks following the creation of the Limited sub-forum, my initial testing of Twin Ball on 230 Stamina setups turned out to be a failure.

Now, here's my theory based on the results I've gotten. Because of the heavy weight and "bulky-ness" of competitive Stamina setups these days, they are able to benefit more from and maximize the effects of increased stability than lighter Stamina customizations, which, due to their light weight and less aggressive nature, benefit so little from this increased stability that the general loss of pure Endurance overshadows it.

In a nutshell, it seems to me that heavier combinations in general are more able to take advantage of higher friction with the stadium floor from an Endurance standpoint, which would explain why CS, MB and TB all work so phenomenally on 4D/Zero-G Stamina customizations, while they were never used extensively on lighter combinations.

That said, I think there's a good chance that Wide Ball might have some competitive Stamina application on Tall-Track customs (notably Genbull SR200, which I'm anxious to try out).

That was slightly unrelated to the testing you did with WB, but it still deals with a possible misconception about B-series Bottom, so I was still on topic, right? Tongue_out

It's interesting to note that there was debate in the beginning stages of MFB whether D was better than B or not. It's talked about a little bit here in this thread I made years ago: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Virgo-125D-or-Libra125D I always found D to be a bit better, but Brad and Anubis (Guardian Odin) swore that B was better. Might be worth revisiting.
Sep. 24, 2014  11:14 PM
 
midnight Awesome tests! I'm pretty busy at the moment, but I can do some of those HF tests with MF later and see how they compare.
Sep. 28, 2014  4:01 PM
 
I think if this topic has less to do with the direct comparison of Bottom molds/production variants and more to do with the performance differences of various Bottoms within a series, then a more accurate title for this topic would be "Comparisons of Bottoms within a Series and their Differences in Performance." The current title implies that we're looking at variations of Bottoms in general and their effects on performance, which could cover anything from erroneous molding to significant wear.

However, it seems that this topic is geared more so towards finding alternatives to certain Bottoms for a specific purpose within that Bottom's own series or another Bottom series (e.g. MF vs. HF vs. F for tornado ridge-stalling, or D-series vs. B-series Bottom Stamina), rather than discussing differences in performance of individual variants of the same Bottom (e.g. variations in RF/R²F rubber consistency (not necessarily different molds (e.g. w/bar, w/o bar, etc.)).
Sep. 28, 2014  4:47 PM
 
(Sep. 28, 2014  4:01 PM)Aɴɢʀʏ Fᴀᴄᴇ Wrote: I think if this topic has less to do with the direct comparison of Bottom molds/production variants and more to do with the performance differences of various Bottoms within a series, then a more relevant title for this topic would be "Comparisons of Bottoms within a Series and their Differences in Performance." The current title implies that we're looking at variations of Bottoms in general and their effects on performance, which could cover anything from erroneous molding to significant wear.

However, it seems that this topic is geared more so towards finding alternatives to certain Bottoms for a specific purpose within that Bottom's own series or another Bottom series (e.g. MF vs. HF vs. F for tornado ridge-stalling, or D-series vs. B-series Bottom Stamina), rather than discussing differences in performance of individual variants of the same Bottom (e.g. variations in RF/R²F rubber consistency (not necessarily different molds (e.g. w/bar, w/o bar, etc.)).
That's more or less what it is, I just didn't want to make a separate thread for the RF mold comparison (as I said before, they are different molds, but I don't have other RFs so I don't know whether or not that's the reason they perform so differently). Aside from that, I think the topic is pretty straightforward. Things like significant wear aren't worth looking into anyway because once they reach that point, they aren't legal for official play.
Sep. 28, 2014  4:57 PM
 
I noticed that my Wide Defense tips seem to wear out and become flatten when I use them with Basalt. With my old Basalt Aquario 230 W2d the tip had worn out and became too aggressive. I Think its basalts Heavy and aggressive nature.

I really don't notice many variations between my Beyblade performance tips.
Sep. 28, 2014  5:02 PM
 
With use, all tips gradually wear away.
Sep. 28, 2014  5:13 PM
 
Doesn't Hasbro have any other material to make the tips with. The PD bottom is a bottom made of different material compared to all the other tips in Metal Fight beyblade right? however its only obtainable through Takara Tomy.
Sep. 28, 2014  5:15 PM
 
Companies cannot just use a wide array of materials : it costs less in the production to order one large quantity of the same material rather than small doses of several different matters. They also technically need to respect the sort of material that was used in the original toys by TAKARA-TOMY.
Sep. 28, 2014  5:37 PM
 
However when Hasbro first started metal fury they did not make any 4d system beyblades. They just modeled the beys to look like their Takara Tomy counterparts. Primarily Because It costs a lot less in production of the hybrid wheel system. compared to 4D. some Hasbro tips do have mold variations compared to the TT tips.

sometimes Hasbro does use different material. Jade Jupiter's Metal frame May be Made of different plastic that may not be polycarbonate. as I recall seeing different material on the 4d system beyblade starters from takara tomy.
Most of the beys in MFB are made of the same material though. Using the same material to make different tips is an organized way of making them. They really don't have to be vastly different. Hasbro does make the beys the way they want them to be. for example they removed all the metal stone faces in zero-g and replaced them with plus shaped plastic ones.
Sep. 28, 2014  5:39 PM
 
(Sep. 14, 2014  10:19 PM)Wombat Wrote: While we're at it, CF vs. GCF please? Also I'd like to see it proven that WSF has more Stamina than S.

D vs. SD on 230 too.
I can do D vs SD and WSF vs S tomorrow or this evening. As for CF vs GCF, we already have this thread.
Sep. 28, 2014  5:50 PM
 
Should I help test the beys out I have those beyblade parts however I don't have a zero g stadium test in or a bb-10 Attack type Beystadium. all I have is Hasbro stadiums to test in. I think My Hyper Strike Beystadium is the best Hasbro stadium to battle in. I do know that all are technically illegal for WBO tournaments.
Sep. 28, 2014  5:59 PM
 
(Sep. 28, 2014  5:50 PM)Supreme JetStar Wrote: Should I help test the beys out I have those beyblade parts however I don't have a zero g stadium test in or a bb-10 Attack type Beystadium. all I have is Hasbro stadiums to test in. I think My Hyper Strike Beystadium is the best Hasbro stadium to battle in. I do know that all are technically illegal for WBO tournaments.
Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately, testing in a Hasbro stadium probably wouldn't be very helpful since they are, as you said, illegal in tournaments.
Sep. 28, 2014  6:29 PM
 
I can still Test the Stamina Type tips. although testing the attack type tips wont be very effective in almost all Hasbro stadiums. I test my attack type beys in my Hyper Strike Beystadium. when I do test them, it may be illegal too but its not that bad compared to most Hasbro stadiums.

the rectangular Hasbro stadiums are even worse than the pegasis thunder whip ones. because the bey can travel outside of the tornado ridge even with the sliding shoot.
Sep. 28, 2014  6:31 PM
 
(Sep. 28, 2014  6:29 PM)Supreme JetStar Wrote: I can still Test the Stamina Type parts. although testing the attack type beys wont be very effective in almost all Hasbro stadiums. I test my attack type beys in my Hyper Strike Beystadium. when I do test them, it may be illegal too but its not that bad compared to most Hasbro stadiums.

the rectangular Hasbro stadiums are even worse than the pegasis thunder whip ones. because the bey can travel outside of the tornado ridge even with the sliding shoot.

Well, sometimes even Stamina Beyblades can KO eachother in the BB-10 and I'm fairly sure the inside area of the TR in the BB-10 and larger than the Hyperstrike- there are still too many differences, haha.

If you want to test in the Hyperstrike, post results here: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Hasbro-M...Thread-III
Sep. 29, 2014  5:32 PM
 
Thank you!
Feb. 14, 2015  3:56 AM
 
I did some comparison testings between BD145RDF and BD145RSF using a MSF-H Wyvang Girago setup against a Killerken Dragooon BD145GF, whereas there was a pretty huge difference between RDF and RSF on BD145 in terms of LAD, and for that matter, what these weren't being tested for, defense. Here are the testings. (Click to View)
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