Common sense is truly difficult.

I agree. Especially when common sense would say that if people would stop being so lazy and enhance their skill that they could indeed defeat things like stamina types with attackers like you are supposed to be able to. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people on here are, in the nicest way I can say it, horrible and lack that skill and advanced members/committee/ whatever people would like be be classified as are not excused from this sentence.

It's not a shot at anyone but just something that should be addressed. I am in no way trying to say that skill completely invalidates the tier list. In fact, I think the tier list can be useful HOWEVER when you see things like people getting less than 90% win rates with VariAres and Blitz and losing tournaments to stamina types and even defense types that should be sent flying with ease, a question of skill tends to come up especially when those same combos are being beaten by supposedly outclassed things.

There is a line between constructive criticism and being an arse. Be a little bit nicer to your fellow bladers. They're in this game to have fun at the end of the day. A condescending attitude of (false) superiority is not healthy for any community and only degrades it.

Keep that in mind.

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Thanks to Kai-V for the avatar and signature!

I am in no way trying to say that skill completely invalidates the tier list. In fact, I think the tier list can be useful HOWEVER when you see things like people getting less than 90% win rates with VariAres and Blitz and losing tournaments to stamina types and even defense types that should be sent flying with ease, a question of skill tends to come up especially when those same combos are being beaten by supposedly outclassed things.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the tier list. Just because a whole bunch of people suck doesn't change the mechanics of how parts work. If this was your point, or Bluezee's point from the beginning, then you should have just made a thread about how people need to practice more.

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Credit for the avatar and sig go to Nic. THANK YOU!

START LIVING BEFORE YOU START DYING

In fact, I think the tier list can be useful HOWEVER when you see things like people getting less than 90% win rates with VariAres and Blitz and losing tournaments to stamina types and even defense types that should be sent flying with ease, a question of skill tends to come up especially when those same combos are being beaten by supposedly outclassed things.

I know. I am one such person who lost a tourney against Earth with Variares and that was because I truly lack the skill. Vari is a great bey and is a tier but since I dont have enough skill to control it well I lost with it against an Earth LTSC. But Tiers do play a part. One cannot defeat a Basalt BD145 CS with a Killer Gemios on an RF however skilled he is. In case it does get KOes, then that is just by chance. Tier is equally important as skill but tiers are 'universal' in nature whereas skill varies from person to person. Just like the value of gravity which changes from place to place(skill) but is assumed to be 9.8m/s^2(tier).

Answer me this: if a player is overly stressed from life in general, has vision problems, a headache, and/or just doesn't care enough at that moment to apply themselves and mislaunches or just can't make the hit, does that really make them unskilled?

If someone can't KO with an attack type, but has in the past, it doesn't make them unskilled; it just makes it not their day. It could also mean that they don't have anyone to practice with so it makes it that much harder in an official match because they aren't playing themselves anymore.

This isn't the National Beyblade League where we sell out on tickets, have bets running at the OTB, and we make careers out of it. It's game here for fun. If everyone is going to stress themselves out and lose confidence in themselves because some punk told them they aren't good enough, it won't be fun anymore, I guarantee you this.

If someone can't KO with an attack type, but has in the past, it doesn't make them unskilled; it just makes it not their day. It could also mean that they don't have anyone to practice with so it makes it that much harder in an official match because they aren't playing themselves anymore.

And, to discuss such circumstances, I once made this if anyone remembers-
Should we consider the LUCK factor in beymatches?
Luck plays an important role in a beymatch, though its effects may be secondary, and its tough to notice it at times.

This isn't the National Beyblade League where we sell out on tickets, have bets running at the OTB, and we make careers out of it. It's game here for fun. If everyone is going to stress themselves out and lose confidence in themselves because some punk told them they aren't good enough, it won't be fun anymore, I guarantee you this.

I completely agree to whatever you said.
Trying to be superior to someone is something which is going to result in a lot of hatred...
And, if the 'I am superior' guy gets beaten, revenge takes over...
We aren't even people to are born in a Beyblade Village and are out to defeat a bossy villain who own the most powerful bey in the world with our amazing skills and Bey-Spirit, which are second to none; and nor do we draw effigies of our enemies on a punching bag and shoot our beys on it.
Actually, Beyblade matches should be such that people make new friends and not enemies...

As for VariAres, that bey is tough to control. And as Dei stated, however good you may be in controlling your bey, if the circumstances* are against you, you are gonna lose no matter what.
And, VariAres is such a funny thing, that it is one of the *circumstances which will actually be against you...

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

Again, none of that has anything to do with the tier list. It seems, he'd just like to point out that most players suck.

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Credit for the avatar and sig go to Nic. THANK YOU!

START LIVING BEFORE YOU START DYING

Get off the bandwagon and get back to discussing things in a less-targeted manner. Now.

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Some manner of Octopus.

If it isn't too much to ask, could I see results of what I should be getting? Just for the sake of having "Skill" defined and so that I know if I personally fit in skill or tier. I think that's the best way to go from here, arguing doesn't really solve anything in this case.

Get off the bandwagon and get back to discussing things in a less-targeted manner. Now.

Who is this directed toward? Because all of my points are incredibly valid.

When I went up with Arupaeo to Toronto, I battled Pockyx3 in two matches. We used Variares BD145RF vs. Beat Lynx 85RF. Then we switched combos. I lost both times and Daegor42 (I believe) pointed out that it wasn't the combos that caused the win.

Fact is, I was still bent on kids rubbing my losses from the day before in my face from the forums so my morale was down. All the skill and tier 1 parts in the world can mean nothing if you don't believe in yourself. Pressure keeps a lot of good bladers from winning.

Get off the bandwagon and get back to discussing things in a less-targeted manner. Now.

Who is this directed toward? Because all of my points are incredibly valid.

When I went up with Arupaeo to Toronto, I battled Pockyx3 in two matches. We used Variares BD145RF vs. Beat Lynx 85RF. Then we switched combos. I lost both times and Daegor42 (I believe) pointed out that it wasn't the combos that caused the win.

Fact is, I was still bent on kids rubbing my losses from the day before in my face from the forums so my morale was down. All the skill and tier 1 parts in the world can mean nothing if you don't believe in yourself. Pressure keeps a lot of good bladers from winning.

Hm, there are just too many factors which affect a Beyblader's performance, Dei.
Almost all (except Tier) are related to the ones which affect a sportsman.
And hey, that may be me, at whom Hazel's post was directed.
Sorry, Hazel!

Tier VS. Skill, more points to add-
I'd also like to point out some issues where people get tremendously good results with a 'meh' part.
The best example being Kei and his Thermal.
Does this mean that Kei is highly skilled (which he really is, but with Thermal ), or he had some weird Thermal?
Also, there are more important things such as Mold Differences.
Mirror matches are being done all the time for testings, but there are certain things which go unnoticed. This was recently brought up in Advanced Forums by Uwik.
The weight differences in 4D wheels. All this, along with Tier and Skill are quite important.

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

Dear WBO and/ or anyone I really offended,
I apologize for saying what I said and calling many people horrible. It was not my original intention to do so. I felt as if a shot was being taken at me and my intelligence in a post before mine. I went too far and included others who may just play for fun and I accept that skill level in fact does vary and it is not fair to say that others are horrible if they are legitimately trying. So in conclusion, I apologize again to anyone who felt hurt by this because it was not right and I realize that now. Thanks for reading.

Also to Deikailo: Why do you constantly speak as if you are the only one affected by things/life? You do realize that other bladers, including myself, like Sniper, who considered selling his parts because of it, KillerSpinner, who at times gives up on himself because of not performing like he would like to but gets better everyday and KCPJ, who tends to want to drop a match right even after the first loss and becomes down at times and many others have the same issues and have people badger them about why they did not perform well and rubbing losses in their faces? Yet you don't see them complaining all the time and trying to throw a pity party for themselves do you? Please just stop. It is ridiculous because everytime you say "someone" you just speak of yourself and no one is going to feel sorry for you because your "morale" gets lowered by kids as old as you are over a children's spinning top game.

Skill is not based on if you can do something but based on the consistency of doing something. Anyone can get a KO but what seperates them from the others is the ability to expand and multiply those KOs with things that may even seem like common sense.

To Shabalabadoo: I will send you a PM on that or a more in depth idea. I am not sure posting reasonable results here would be actually for this thread and it might be spam. (Actually, can a moderator confirm that for me?)

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Karice is my name. Remember it when I defeat you.
Team: Spiral Bladers (Customizer)

Hey! Compared to you guys, I am an amateur, so could someone tell me what skill is actually involved apart from powerful launches and sliding shoot? I mean no offence to anyone, I am just a bit confused...

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Signature was too large. Read the rules.

Skill is not based on if you can do something but based on the consistency of doing something. Anyone can get a KO but what seperates them from the others is the ability to expand and multiply those KOs with things that may even seem like common sense.

Does that help you out a bit Giri?

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Karice is my name. Remember it when I defeat you.
Team: Spiral Bladers (Customizer)

Personally that is extremely vague still. If something seems like common sense, then chances are that everybody is doing it already by nature ...

Thanks, spin sonic, so basically if I launch consistently well and have a good combo, I will do well... correct if I am wrong (which I probably am), but it seems like there is more to it than that skill-wise...

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Signature was too large. Read the rules.

Skill is defined as,

"Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience." (source: Dictionary.com)

The first part of the definition talks about a (sometimes subjective) measurement of effectiveness (in our case, consistency of launch, consistency of KO), and the second part talks about how you acquire said proficiency (in every case, practice, practice, practice).

Some people need to practice less to become skilled attack bladers and some people need to practice more. But you can't acquire a skill without practice, and we can't describe it to you in terms of, "hold your left arm at a 72 degree angle to the upper slope of the attack stadium, approximately 7 cm's above the nearest opening..." That just doesn't work.

So practice attacking on your own, or better yet practice with a partner. Over time you will find what works for you, and if you try hard and put in enough practice time, your consistency and effectiveness in being able to KO beys will increase.

Anyone who considers the only beyblade "skills" to be "able to do a sliding shoot" and other launch techniques is being rather one-dimensional anyway, it's not a "do or can't do" thing, it's a "how well you do it". As such, you can always improve. Same with the various launches for CS and so on.

Of course, this "level" of aptitude with these skills is what is affected on the day, or in each match, even. I tend to be half asleep at tournaments, and do tend to make poor choices. You'd still be brave to say, from that, that I know little about beyblade, or am "bad" at it (I still won the first tournament, which is where that mainly happened), but it is again, another thing that depends on the day.

So, both Skill and Condition affect Ability, but for the most part, we're still assuming everyone will perform the same with the same beys. Again, that's over-simplifying things. Some people are just more adapted or naturally talented with certain types of beyblade. Whilst having the "best" beyblade of that type will give them better results, even if that bey isn't as good as another, same type of beyblade with a slightly different method/usage, they may still do better with the beyblade they are suited to than they may do with the other "better" beyblade.

Obviously, you're still not going to be KOing Basalt/Duo with Dark reliably, so tier again is part of it, but some people do work better/worse with certain wheels/types, even to a higher level than plain personal preference would allow.

Spin-Sonic: Deikailo was just using herself as a specific example, as it was the example she could best explain and was most familiar with. Let's not turn this into an argument about people being self-centred, that kind of thing belongs in PM's, or maybe even better, not said at all.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

ok for those who don't know for sure the stats for skill IMO is launch power is 15% knowledge 23% training 47% 15% natural ability and 25% hard work and good spirit...i know i wrote 125% but you need above 100% to be really trying at anything...i know cheesy but true post your stats on it or if its a bad scale IMO that's a perfect scale

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Hue.

ok for those who don't know for sure the stats for skill IMO is launch power is 15% knowledge 23% training 47% 15% natural ability and 25% hard work and good spirit...i know i wrote 125% but you need above 100% to be really trying at anything...i know cheesy but true post your stats on it or if its a bad scale IMO that's a perfect scale

You forgot to account for bitbeasts.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Also to Deikailo: Why do you constantly speak as if you are the only one affected by things/life? You do realize that other bladers, including myself, like Sniper, who considered selling his parts because of it, KillerSpinner, who at times gives up on himself because of not performing like he would like to but gets better everyday and KCPJ, who tends to want to drop a match right even after the first loss and becomes down at times and many others have the same issues and have people badger them about why they did not perform well and rubbing losses in their faces? Yet you don't see them complaining all the time and trying to throw a pity party for themselves do you? Please just stop. It is ridiculous because everytime you say "someone" you just speak of yourself and no one is going to feel sorry for you because your "morale" gets lowered by kids as old as you are over a children's spinning top game.

It's ridiculous how you log into Karice's account just to make posts, Bluezee.

I speak from my own experiences because I don't feel like shoving words into people's mouths. I know how I feel exactly so it's no problem interpreting that as a fact. I'm not going to insinuate that someone feels this way because of _____ when that may not be true at all. Maybe you should look into that.

ok for those who don't know for sure the stats for skill IMO is launch power is 15% knowledge 23% training 47% 15% natural ability and 25% hard work and good spirit...i know i wrote 125% but you need above 100% to be really trying at anything...i know cheesy but true post your stats on it or if its a bad scale IMO that's a perfect scale

You speak like Kenny... :\


Adding to what th!nk said-
Usage of a certain bey differs from the other.
So, being skilled with the most powerful bey of a certain category does not mean that another bey of the same category will be just as easy to control.

Think of VariAres. Being able to control it, is the biggest joy for an attacker.
One may clearly develop the impression that- "If I can control VariAres, I can control any attack bey".

Now think of Beat. OK, if you know how to use VariAres, then one certainly won't even 'look' at Beat. But still, lets at least consider Beat for now.
It needs to be banked extremely deep. So, you'll need to accustom yourself to banking it THAT well to be able to utilize it to its fullest.

EDIT- Woot! I think things are heating up around here...

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Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

Sorry guys, but here is another newbie comment... What exactly do you mean by "control" variares??

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Signature was too large. Read the rules.

Like I mentioned before: let that Bluezee is Spin, Spin is Bluezee thing go..
Seriously guys.

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shout out 2 kai-v 2.

The Complete Competitive HMS Resource

ok for those who don't know for sure the stats for skill IMO is launch power is 15% knowledge 23% training 47% 15% natural ability and 25% hard work and good spirit...i know i wrote 125% but you need above 100% to be really trying at anything...i know cheesy but true post your stats on it or if its a bad scale IMO that's a perfect scale

You forgot to account for bitbeasts.

im talkong mfbb which as you kno has no bit beast but in a plastics sence, you really dont need skill with the right bitbeast! [:"}

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ok for those who don't know for sure the stats for skill IMO is launch power is 15% knowledge 23% training 47% 15% natural ability and 25% hard work and good spirit...i know i wrote 125% but you need above 100% to be really trying at anything...i know cheesy but true post your stats on it or if its a bad scale IMO that's a perfect scale

You speak like Kenny... :\


Adding to what th!nk said-
Usage of a certain bey differs from the other.
So, being skilled with the most powerful bey of a certain category does not mean that another bey of the same category will be just as easy to control.

Think of VariAres. Being able to control it, is the biggest joy for an attacker.
One may clearly develop the impression that- "If I can control VariAres, I can control any attack bey".

Now think of Beat. OK, if you know how to use VariAres, then one certainly won't even 'look' at Beat. But still, lets at least consider Beat for now.
It needs to be banked extremely deep. So, you'll need to accustom yourself to banking it THAT well to be able to utilize it to its fullest.

EDIT- Woot! I think things are heating up around here...

well i am the hasbro scientist of las vegas! (laughs with fake stupied hardyness) (cuz lets face it: im 14 with no ebay, paypal or any other means of portchis and i live in vegas...i cant useve anything cept what i get for christmas birthday and random times i want a new blade) and i use antimeta combos for attack so i like weels like cyth burn and flame for attack cyth prefered cus of free spining pc allowing for a bit more of a variaty in a battle

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Hue.

For the last time, I AM NOT BLUEZEE! i really do not see why that is so hard to understand. It is hard enough for me to try and get on here since "someone" decided to ban an IP address on the only working computer I could use. I have to sneak and use this one.I have my own mind and my own thoughts. Yes, they may be similar to others but so what? When you grow up with a person, you begin to see things how they see it as well to an extent and learn to formulate your own ideas as well. Stop badgering Bluezee and me.

Also, I made no assumptions when I said what I said. Those things are common knowledge that i was informed of myself therefore I had basis to my arguments. Also, I stand by what I said. Skill is more important than anything. Just because you have a few times when you can do something, it does not make you skilled at it. Anyone has the ability to do something. The consistency and proficiency is what makes you skilled. You can't blame life for every little thing. Practice and learn. That's the name of the game. If you choose not to be competitive and play for fun, then by all means do so. I am not discouraging that idea. I am saying that you can't say one minute that you are there to compete but then another minute after you lose, say, oh I just play for fun so you can't judge me. Get it together.

The bottom line is people need to practice and stop just relying on what a tier list says because the fact of the matter is, anyone can copy combos off a tier list but only the skilled few will win. This is clearly a competitive community so practicing would be in any blader's best interest if they are competing for something.