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The Metal Fury Project - Phase 1 - Attack

Dec. 05, 2013  11:32 PM
 
(Dec. 05, 2013  8:07 PM)Leone20 Wrote: Shouldn't hasbro proto have been tested under attack? Seeing as it has to much recoil for anything else.....

Well, me and Leone19 are collaborating on what H Proto has use for, but so we've come with nothing. I think that it has no use, but we should still post the results.
Dec. 09, 2013  2:07 AM
 
So I did a few tests for Cosmic, since that's the only Metal Fury Attack MW I have.
Spoiler (Click to View)
I didn't really know what Track to use, because I remember Cosmic being good if it was lower than the opponent. I tried 85 at first, but that didn't do anything much against Aquario. So I moved it up to LW105 because it was taller and three sided, and got considerably better results. I bet in the hands of a more competent Attack user it Cosmic would have destroyed Earth.
Dec. 09, 2013  2:35 AM
 
Quite sure Cosmic is considered better if it's higher than the opponent, not lower. Cosmic TH170R2F was the big combo iirc, the wings are lethal.

I think you also hinted at this somewhat with your little statement here:
Wombat Wrote:So I moved it up to LW105 because it was taller and three sided, and got considerably better results.
Dec. 09, 2013  2:48 AM
 
What about Vulcan for attack? I used to really like it, especially on low tracks like 85-CH120. I'd do some official tests but I'm extremely tired. I will do some tomorrow!
Dec. 09, 2013  3:15 AM
 
(Dec. 09, 2013  2:35 AM)Ga Wrote: Quite sure Cosmic is considered better if it's higher than the opponent, not lower. Cosmic TH170R2F was the big combo iirc, the wings are lethal.

>>>This <<<
Cosmic has roughly the same shape as Big Bang, so it makes sense as to why they both work in the same combo.
If it can actually consistently do this well against Basalt and Duo, then we got a pretty nice combo on our hands..until it goes against Anti-Attack lol
Dec. 09, 2013  7:54 AM
 
I'm glad to see my old beat and cosmic will come in handy, also I would love to see what they do on lower tracks
Dec. 09, 2013  1:12 PM
 
(Dec. 09, 2013  7:54 AM)Draciel516 Wrote: I'm glad to see my old beat and cosmic will come in handy, also I would love to see what they do on lower tracks

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-H-Bea...pid1178280

Combo I came up with, Galaxy Blade helped test. Grin
Dec. 09, 2013  1:38 PM
 
(Dec. 09, 2013  1:12 PM)Leone19 Wrote:
(Dec. 09, 2013  7:54 AM)Draciel516 Wrote: I'm glad to see my old beat and cosmic will come in handy, also I would love to see what they do on lower tracks

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-H-Bea...pid1178280

Combo I came up with, Galaxy Blade helped test. Grin

I was just about to post that, hah. Leone19 did come up with a good combo though, and I hope when the tier list gets made it gets on.
Yeah, Beat does good on low tracks aswell. In fact, I'm halve way into my Beat Disscution thread. Then you can see/test the combos there.
Dec. 14, 2013  10:11 PM
 
Alright guys, thanks to Insomniac coming down Raleigh last tournaments, I got my hands on an earth wheel!

I've added testing for MF-H Cosmic Unicorno II CH145 vs. Earth Aquario GB145CS, Gravity benchmarks against Earth Aquario 85RSF, and MF-H Cosmic Unicorno R145R2F vs. Earth Aquario 85RSF.

Check out those cosmic tests. They. Will. Blow. Your. Mind.

By the way, my launch was better today, and I got hold of a better R2F, so keep in mind that win rates will be a bit higher than normal.

As the conversation seems to be leaning toward the subject of Cosmic TH170, I like it, but I don't love it. I did some quick tests comparing to Cosmic R145:

MF-H Cosmic Unicorno TH170R2F vs. Earth Aquario GB145CS
Prime R2F. Aquario launches first on all launches.
Cosmic: wins, 13/20 (All KO)
Aquario: wins, 7/20 (3 KO, 4 OS)
MF-H Cosmic Unicorno TH170R2F win rate: 65%

MF-H Cosmic Unicorno R145R2F vs. Earth Aquario GB145CS
Prime R2F. Aquario launches first on all launches.
Cosmic: wins, 9/10 (All KO)
Aquario: wins, 1/10 (1 OS)
MF-H Cosmic Unicorno R145R2F win rate: 90%

Earth's only win was from a repeated series of crazy wall saves. :\

Not that Cosmic TH170 is bad by any means... I just far prefer R145 (which also deals with shorter combos IMO). However, Cosmic TH170 is still super effective, and the fact that both trashed Earth shows how effective Cosmic is. I think it'll truly become dominant soon.

Well, I think we have quite a collection of results in the OP here! Keep testing guys! Confirmation is essential.
Dec. 14, 2013  10:27 PM
 
I've liked Cosmic, but never thought I'd be that good. I mean... I like way more better wheels then Cosmic. Just my thoughts. I'll be happy to test more soon. I'm really wanting to do alot. I see Cosmic is good... But I'm gonna test it more against more attack types. Thanks TheBlackDragon for the tests. I look forward to helping more.
Dec. 15, 2013  10:39 AM
 
That... Honestly doesn't surprise me that much. The way it worked against BD145 Defense, as I remember it, doesn't transfer that well to a BD145-less format. Cosmic has a good shape for attack in just about any height matchup, so focussing solely on one that is traditionally not that great for attacking seems rather counterproductive to me. Thanks for the tests, TBD.
Dec. 15, 2013  1:54 PM
 
Okay I have been digging through the threads on these wheels in the regular forum. Here are weights as reported in said threads if found, as well as wheels in a similar weight range from my own weights, and what I'd classify it as. I only found a few weights though.

Cosmic: 32.91g - KainHighwind Similar to: Tornado, RB7 Vulcan. Weight Range: Heavy
Beat: No Weights Found
Jade: No Weights Found
Variares: 34g (approx) - Kai-V. Similar to: as it has no CW, this is roughly equivalent to Killer, a bit heavier than Storm and Ray. Not a death sentence for an attack wheel in and of itself, but I imagine looking at the size and shape that rotational recoil is a big part of the poor performance.
Blitz: No Weights Found

Not a tonne of info, but it does explain Cosmic's success and Variares poor performance. I might see if KainHighwind still has his stuff from this era as he had a scale, if he has the time to weigh stuff.

If someone wants to try to sift through all the whining in the hasbro thread around the time these were released to find their weights, I'd appreciate it as I don't think I could handle it.
Dec. 15, 2013  3:44 PM
 
So I just did some testing with cosmic a few minutes ago

MF-M Cosmic Kerbecs SR200R2F vs Earth Bull C145RSF
Equipment: Beylauncher LR, BB-10
R2F: Prime and Aquario was launched first.
Kerbecs (9 KO)
Bull (6 KO, 5 OS)
Win Rate: 45%

SR200 was a decent height for me, it exposed cosmic contact points and I didn't had an TH170 to use.
I don't know if it was I used a different clear wheel or maybe not enough weight was put into cosmic for earth to have scored that much KO's.

I had an agro RSF that that probably was it and it really showed how much recoil Cosmic had.
Dec. 15, 2013  3:49 PM
 
I think the main issue with SR200 is that TH170 is a lot more flexible and its 195 mode is at a very similar height, honestly. That's a pretty eh winrate, especially with C145 and no metal face of any kind, which should make up for the lack of weight your cosmic combo has without an MF-H and so on. I'd also wager that so many KO's indicates that 200 mightn't be a good height for cosmic in this format, as the height matchup probably has something to do with it. That said, it's hard to draw much from a single test with no benchmark or anything.
Dec. 16, 2013  4:32 AM
 
Inferno for attack anyone? I don't know how much it weighs or anything, but it has a similar shape to Flash.

MF-H Inferno Uranus 85R2F vs. MF-H Bakushin Aquario 90RSF
IU: 12 wins (All KO)
BA: 8 wins (All OS)
Inferno Uranus win percentage: 60%

Not to bad!
Dec. 16, 2013  4:36 AM
 
I never thought is see the day when inferno was good (was it ever good?)... ..... Mind testing against libra gb145rsf?
Dec. 16, 2013  4:37 AM
 
(Dec. 16, 2013  4:32 AM)Tri Wrote: Inferno for attack anyone? I don't know how much it weighs or anything, but it has a similar shape to Flash.

MF-H Inferno Uranus 85R2F vs. MF-H Bakushin Aquario 90RSF
IU: 12 wins (All KO)
BA: 8 wins (All OS)
Inferno Uranus win percentage: 60%

Not to bad!
Inferno is Legend, not Fury... maybe we need to post a Legend Testing Thread for LMTD, once we have tests for the Wheels. Tongue_out

Similar to Flash, but in my opinion, I don't necessarily think its on its "proportional" level. Tongue_out

I'd be interested in some tests against Earth Defense, though.
Dec. 16, 2013  4:45 AM
 
Inferno isn't metal fury, it's legend series. It is notable, however, in that with one of the heavier clear wheels it is actually heavier than Sagittario, the wheel it is based on, though that's mostly because Sagittario is very light itself.
Dec. 16, 2013  5:05 AM
 
Whoops, sorry 'bout that. I wasn't thinking, I just kinda read 'Phase 1 - Attack', haha.
Dec. 16, 2013  10:51 PM
 
Okay, so based on discussion in another topic I took a look at my Takara Beat and my collection on clear wheels.

While I don't think Beat is going to have too many troubles with clear wheel interference, here are the ones I noted either really exposed it well or put weight in the right places. Seeing as it's a big vulcan, the results are pretty similar for the most part:

Byxis: If you want to guarantee plastic stays out of the way, Byxis is the way to go. No plastic for all of the wing's leading edge, and there's also a good amount of weight over the leading edge of the snouts. It's also super light, which could be good.

Giraffe: Rectangular shape puts weight in the wings and generally stays out of the way, though some interference with the metal fury version's imitation of the PC frame may be possible if hitting at certain angles, maybe? It's quite light, which could be good.

Horuseus: Horuseus is a lot like byxis but a little taller, and therefore it could get in the way slightly against significantly taller opponents. The weight distribution isn't as nice, but Horuseus does hit the 3g mark, significantly heavier than Byxis and a comfy .15-.2g more than Giraffe.

Lynx: Lynx is probably fine though those ears might obscure a metal slope on the Metal Fury version. In exchange for this, lynx presents a hefty 3.09g weight and leopard print stickers (assuming hasbro threw them in, if not, buying a SonoKong version might just be worth it!)

Horogium: Horogium is horogium. It keeps out of the way, neither adds to or detracts from your weight distribution, it's lightweight, and most people have one. It's Horogium, and it will continue to be Horogium until the end of time.

Nemesis: Nemesis cuts away just before that slope on the PC Frame's leading edge on the Takara version, and is one of the heaviest CW's out. As such it could be a really good choice, if weight is actually good.

Blaze: If anyone has this and is crazy enough to use it, it's not a bad choice, doesn't look to get in the way too much and there's weight in decent places. Probably okay but I'd use something cheaper and better.

Uranus: It's light but it puts weight on the snouts and keeps out of the way. It's an okay choice, nothing amazing.

Virgo: Pretty much a poor man's nemesis, gets in the way a bit more but overall isn't bad and has good weight to it.

Aquario: Despite being a bulky CW, Aquario's shape does provide a little clearance. Probably not a terrible choice.

Deceptively bad choices:

Aquila: It looks good but those wingtips jut out where they shouldn't just like on vulcan. Don't use aquila.
Gemios: Same as aquila, basically.


Keep In Mind: A heavy CW may not actually be a good thing despite what I've written here, seeing as Takara's Beat benefits a lot from its weight distribution, and if that's the case with Metal Fury Beat, Byxis and Giraffe are frontrunners. However, in Limited, weight is pretty important, so I assume something heavy is probably the way to go, meaning Nemesis may be the way to go.

Also keep in mind that I don't have a Metal Fury Beat so I can't actually check my visual assessments to make sure they're correct. Some of these wheels might get in the way, Giraffe, Nemesis and Virgo for example might all actually obstruct that little sloped part. The key is to listen for plastic hitting metal in a 145 vs 230 matchup. If you hear it that's a bad thing and you should mention it (especially if you can compare to something like horogium to make sure it's not just a normal sound). CW's might also make absolutely no contact, in which case aquario or bull (or aquila for the weight distro), or if lighter seems better, byxis and gemios, are probably the way to go.

By the way, if anyone with a metal fury beat has even a set of kitchen scales they could put it and say an Earth wheel on (for comparison) I'd appreciate it. Heck, the same really goes for any Metal Fury wheel at this point.
Dec. 17, 2013  3:47 PM
 
I seriously wish I had some kind of scale to weight anything on. XD

... maybe I should just take a bag of Metal Fury blades to the produce center at the grocery store. They've got scales there. Tongue_out

You really don't like Aquila on Beat?? Confused That's like the #1 CW I would use. It's weight distribution is pretty much perfect. Anyway, if you don't like how Aquila's little tips jut out, why use Giraffe? I mean, it's tips are just as, if not more, prominent than Aquila's from what I can see.

Anywho, I did a little CW searching myself, and I found one that really looked insanely good. Lacerta. Yup, Lacerta. Talk about putting weight behind contact points, it exposes Beat very well, and the weight distribution is pretty much perfect. I really like it!
Dec. 17, 2013  4:03 PM
 
They're not expensive you know, and nor are the calibration weights to go with them. Pretty simple system so even cheap chinese ones are accurate.

Giraffe cuts away just before the slope on what is the PC Frame of Takara's Beat starts, whereas Aquila juts out past that, and other contact points - it's the same problem I found with Aquila on Vulcan, where it interferes a lot.
That said, if I'm wrong about it getting in the way then yes, the weight distribution is very good.


I looked at Lacerta, and yeah the weight distribution is good, but I feel like it would get in the way too much and I'm kinda paranoid about that. It's also a bit tall in a lot of places. I'll let you know when I get my Beat whether it actually matters or not, haha.
Dec. 22, 2013  6:22 AM
 
I was thinking about Kei's use of MSF-H Samurai Wyvang H145RSF which he discusses HERE, and thinking whether anything else could possibly pull it off. I don't think any of the older wheels could pull it off, the only ones in the weight range being Screw (not powerful enough), Gravity (which I find needs movement) and Vulcan (too small), but Cosmic is in the same weight range with Kerbecs, and has the added benefit of R145 for weight (or maybe TR145, still haven't got mine).

If someone could try MF-H Cosmic Kerbecs R145/TR145RSF and see how it fares against stamina and defense, I'd be very interested in the results.

MF-H Beat Nemesis H145RSF might also be worth looking into for the same.


While KOing stuff like that might be something only Wyvang is capable of, it would still be cool if someone could even try these out and let me know if they seem like they could work or not.
Dec. 23, 2013  2:02 AM
 
Well, that custom was based off of (MSF-H) Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF, which is designed to "Attack while being attacked," so to speak. Unless it can actually OS Defense (which I find extremely hard to believe, given the fact that Wyvang with any crystal is extremely shaky in terms of balance for me), I don't think it'll work too well. Without BD145 and the weight of the Heaviest Synchrom available, I'd be on the edge about using it against anything aggressive. I don't know why you wouldn't just use RF/R2F on it TBH.

However, Kei did really well with it, and when Kei comes up with something it's usually no joke. I have yet to test it myself, but I honestly don't expect to do amazing. Could very well be wrong, though.

BTW, Cosmic has WAY too much recoil to be used on anything but RF/R2F. Cosmic R145RSF would literally be KOed by an LTSC. I don't think that's gonna work. :\
Dec. 23, 2013  2:25 AM
 
Has L-Drago Destructor been thought of or even tested yet?

It's counterpart, at the time of its release, was good for Attack.
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