Hello World Beybladers, my name is Thunder Dome, and I’m here to bring up a concerning topic that other bladers and I have experienced. Deathscythers have appeared to be dominating competitive play lately and as a community this is a topic we must discuss and come to a final decision. I’m supporting the case that Deathscyther needs to be banned from competitive play, but one person's opinion isn’t everything. After you read my evidence, I would like everyone to digest the info a bit, then reply and state their opinions. This is something that needs to be discussed. Without further a do, here is my case for banning Deathscyther.

Recently in North Carolina events practically new Deathscythers have been dominating. Our last three events were dominated by someone showing up with a brand new Deathscyther and it almost felt unbeatable. Stationary Attack felt rather weak, especially if they layer was slightly worn due to Deathscyther just bursting it. In Stamina match ups, Deathscyther just bursted the other top countlessly regardless of launch. Stormscorpio1 and I tried Neptune, D2, and our worn Deathscythers against Dark_Mousy’s fresh Deathscythers and just couldn’t win. At our most recent event which was under the Experimental Beyblade Format we even tried Odin and a fresh D2 against EthanQ42’s new Deathscyther Heavy Defense and were still bursted. I was actually able to beat it 3-1 in swiss with Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense, but once the finals happened I lost to bursts again. Both these cases showed players who had previously not done well in Burst, seem to dominate due to a fresh Deathscyther. Also not only has Deathscyther appeared to dominate in North Carolina, but many other tournaments seem to have this problem, regardless of the state of Deathscythers teeth.

Farwell to a legend: Goodbye Defstamina88!!!

1st Dark_Mousy
Deathscyther Gravity Revolve
Deathscyther Ring Revolve
Dark Deathscyther Heavy Revolve

2nd Thunder Dome
Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Deathscyther Ring Revolve
Deathscyther Ring Accel

3rd StormScorpio1
Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Kaiser Kerbeus Heavy Defense
Kaiser Kerbeus Heavy Massive
Amaterios Gravity Orbit

Winning Combos: Preparation For The Battle Cry!!
1st Dark_Mousy
Neptune Knuckle Yield
DeathScyther Knuckle Yield
DeathScyther Heavy Defense
DeathScyther Gravity Revolve
Victory Valkyrie Gravity Revolve. (Used this one time)

2nd Thunder Dome
Victory Valkyrie Heavy Revolve
Unicorn Ring Accel
Dark DeathScyther Heavy Defense

3rd StormScorpio1
Wyvern Ring Accel
Amaterios Heavy Orbit

Let The Battle Begin!!! Onto the Future! Winning Combinations, Raleigh North Carolina 9/17/16

1st place: EthanQ42: Deathscyther Heavy Defense

2nd place: Thunder Dome: Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense

3rd place: Titan Tite: Dark Deathscyther Gravity Orbit, Evileye Wing Accel

Note this was under the experimental format.

From Burst into the Wild today in Montreal:

1st. MissingNo
Deathscyther Gravity/Spread Revolve
Dark Deathscyther Gravity Revolve

2nd. Dobby
Deathscyther Gravity/Spread Revolve
Dark Deathscyther Gravity Revolve

3rd. Bey Brad
Deathscyther Knuckle Revolve

Bey Blades Burst Tournament- Burst Format
Sunday, August 21st, 2016 | Toronto, Ontario

1st JesseObre

Dark Deathscyther Gravity Defense
Deathsycther Heavy Defense
Valkyrie Heavy Defense

2nd Hato

Valkryie Heavy Accel
DeathScyther Heavy Orbit
Dark DeathScyther Heavy Defense

3rd Kei

Valkyrie Knuckle Trans
Wyvern Gravity Trans
Dark Deathscyther Gravity Defense
Dark Deathscyther Gravity Orbit
Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Valkyrie Triple Accel

THE BEY-GINNING OF AN ERA - 9/4/16
Toronto, Ontario, Canada - Experimental Burst Format

1st: 1234beyblade
Victory Valkyrie Knuckle Xtreme
Wyvern Heavy Revolve
Deathscyther Gravity Defense
Dark Deathscyther Spread Orbit

2nd: pyrus10000
Deathscyther Heavy Revolve
Odin Heavy Revolve
Dark Deathscyther Gravity Orbit
Deathscyther Spread Orbit

3rd: JesseObre
Dark Deathscyther Gravity Defense
Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Valkyrie Triple Trans
Odin Heavy Revolve
Deathscyther Spread Orbit

Read my thoughts on the experimental Burst Format here.

-

THE BEY-GINNING OF AN ERA - 9/4/16
Toronto, Ontario, Canada - Burst Format

1st: JesseObre
Dark Deathscyther Gravity Defense
Deathscyther Heavy Defense

2nd: 1234beyblade
Wyvern Heavy Revolve
Deathscyther Gravity Defense
Dark Deathscyther Spread Orbit

3rd: Mitsu
Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Deathscyther Heavy Orbit
Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Dark Deathscyther Spread Defense
Deathscyther Spread Defense


Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther continue to reign supreme! Beginning to wonder what a format without them and with Odin back would look like.

Go Shoot First, Ask Questions Later!

Burst Format

1st Place-Alta:
Deathscyther Heavy Revolve

2nd Place-ThaKingTai:
Dark Deathscyther Gravity Revolve

3rd Place-JoJo [Jp0t]:
Neptune Gravity Orbit
Deathscyther Ring Revolve

lol, so much Revolve, so much Deathscyther, lololololol

These were all tournaments over the last month. As you can see Deathscyther dominated the majority of these events, and even Dark Deathscyther did to an extent. This does not look like a healthy meta game.

Another alarming issue about Deathscyther is something is something I alluded to earlier when talking about a brand new Deathscyther sweeping. Deathscyther is one of the layers in Beyblade Burst that has very weak teeth. When these teeth get a bit weaker, Deathscyther is definitely not the machine it is when it’s fresh out of the box. This forces players to continuously buy new Deathscythers if they still want to have a decent one. Another problem will occur when it comes to buying new Deathscythers. Since Deathscyther has been banned by Takara Tomy and was only released early on in the Burst series they are becoming quite scarce to find. Not only that but they can get a bit pricier compared to any other Burst starter. These factors shouldn’t determine who performs well at events.

Around July 2016 Takara Tomy banned Deathscyther from all of their events. All though we have a different player base and a different metagame than Japan, we still need to acknowledge that they did ban Deathscyther. The Japanese community has the most chances to test Beyblades, buy the latest releases and ever purchase parts that easily get worn down like Valkyrie but they still continued to overuse Deathscyther at events. This should have been alarming to the player base on the World Beyblade Organization, but many disregarded this as them not knowing how to use Attack Types. Months later Deathscyther still seems to be dominating our events.

One of the solutions for the Beyblade Burst metagame could be to unban Odin and ban Deathscyther. Odin appears to not be as good as it once was in competitive World Beyblade Organization events. Not only that but Odin layers don’t suffer the same wear issue as Deathscyther. Even if Odin happened to be one of the better pieces in the game, you should generally be able to buy one and stick with it for a while, unlike Deathscyther where it gets worn down quite easily.

Deathscyther is a layer that needs to be dealt with, it’s been overused for the last year and has dominated many events. It’s an issue that needs to be dealt with and as a community we need to figure out a solution now.

Ayy, totally agree with you on that. By the way, Odin's teeth do wear down, but they are already so bad right out of the box that it doesn't make any difference at all.

---

Wow. That's a lot of Deathscythers and Dark Deathscythers. O.0

Spoiler (Click to View)

Summer's End - 24 September 2016

The Results...

1st - @[philo1114]
Deathscyther Heavy Accel
Deathscyther Heavy Revolve
Deathscyther Gravity Revolve
Trident Knuckle Claw (Now was this a troll or not... hm... xD )

2nd - Manicben
Deathscyther Heavy Zephyr
Deathscyther Gravity Revolve
Valkyrie Spread Needle

3rd - @[~Mana~]
Deathscyther Gravity Orbit
Dark Deathscyther Heavy Revolve
Wyvern Heavy Orbit

---

Well I think it's safe to say that you can add this to the OP. I really don't see why this thread is getting almost no traction, it's something that is changing the game in a very negative way. It shouldn't be that just by simply throwing money at countless Deathsycthers that you should get such an edge up on players that don't have tons of money to put towards buying the same Beyblade over and over again. It reminds me of in the discussion for banning Odin, one of the biggest problems that people had with Odin was that if you had a strong launch with it, then you would win the stamina match, well I see this as the same thing , if you have a lot of Deathsycthers than you get an advantage over your opponent that doesn't want to spend tons of money. Anyway that's just my poorly thrown together thought on the matter, but I do sincerely think that people need to start looking more into this thread.

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Not my WBO

A lot of things are getting little traction here these days, do not worry. Personally I found that it really took a while for the topic on Deathscyther getting banned by the official company to reach the activity it deserved, for the huge decision it was.

In my opinion, I just do not see a solution in unbanning Odin, but at the moment it does look like people were given enough opportunity to diversify their counters and their metagame but Deathscyther stands out as the best choice right now despite many new releases. Dark Deathscyther seemed to be used just as much until very recently though, so I wonder if all Deathscyther parts should not be banned in one go while we are at it...

I agree we do need to talk about this. This was actually one of the topics I was wanting to cover hah. If memory serves correctly this is how the ban on Libra began. I think one of the first questions we should ask, if we ban DeathScyther, what would the meta become? IF we ever unban Odin, would we have an unbalanced Metagame again?

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WBO Facebook | WBO Twitter

Beginner's Guide to the WBO!

My Blog (Updated 9/24

The core problem is that Attack is in an absolutely pathetic state for Burst. Even mint Valkyrie just isn't reliable enough, and wear issues certainly don't help ease the risk of self-bursts. I think a lot of people are/were hoping that the Hasbro release or new parts by Takara-Tomy would fix the problems, but honestly we've been waiting and hoping for something new to save the game for a looong time now with no luck. Look at the metagame we have now - it's the same Valkyrie and Deathscyther we've been seeing for almost a year now. People complain about power creep, but I'll gladly take perpetual weight increases over the mess that is Burst any day.

Burst is a broken game that will only be fixed by either a wave of rulings to make Attack (both Burst and KO variants) more viable, or new releases that provide a solution. We only have control over one of those two things, and we've waited long enough for a "magic bullet" that never came.

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Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

In my opinion, I just do not see a solution in unbanning Odin, but at the moment it does look like people were given enough opportunity to diversify their counters and their metagame but Deathscyther stands out as the best choice right now despite many new releases. Dark Deathscyther seemed to be used just as much until very recently though, so I wonder if all Deathscyther parts should not be banned in one go while we are at it...

This would be the perfect solution. D2 is good/versatile enough it would cause Problems if DeathScyther was banned.

Personally if they are both banned I would forsee a heavier use of parts like Valkyrie and more attack based parts. It sounds nice thinking about it hah.

---

WBO Facebook | WBO Twitter

Beginner's Guide to the WBO!

My Blog (Updated 9/24

This comes from someone who has never owned a Desthscyther and likely never will. I'm fairly certain the part is out of circulation and out of production at this point. In other words, eventually this is going to become a non-issue. People won't have Desthscyther anymore because there literally won't be any left. The part is destined to ban itself anyway.

Use that as an argument for or against the act of us banning it officially, I'm pretty neutral.

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A shining sword of justice and friendship, slice them to pieces, Xcalibur!

The dominance of Deathscyther is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself. I sincerely believe that if we ban Deathscyther, we will just see Dark Deathscyther rise to the top. I actually predict that situation would be worse; D2 can outspin Odin, but it can't really outspin Deathscyther. Banning Deathscyther would transform D2 from versatile to unstoppable.

So ban both Deathscythers then! Well, OK, we could do that I guess. But I bet you'd just see Odin Heavy Defense at the top of the list again, no matter how everyone has adjusted to it now. If we banned Odin, probably Wyvern? It's just the nature of Beyblade that players are incentivized towards the safest option. Attack-types need to have way more effective potential in order to compensate for their lack of safety, or else people won't play them. They need to be able to overwhelm the odds when played well. That's currently not really possible in Burst, sad to say.

Is it the WBO's job to adjust the rules aggressively to compensate for the fact that there's been a drought of new effective attack layers with reasonable stamina (and that really is the crux of the issue here)? I'm actually pretty surprised to see many prominent members in favour of us banning parts now. Not that that's a bad thing, but it's not what I expected.

We tried to take advantage of Deathscyther's biggest weakness — its burstability — by making bursts worth 2 points, but it seems a lot of people weren't crazy about it. But I'd really hope to find a solution that doesn't turn our standard format into one with a revolving banlist.

And yes, it's worth acknowledging that Takara-Tomy banned Deathscyther in Japan, but the reasoning is transparent: the homogenity is due to their inability to produce reasonably powerful new parts. Is there any reason to think that there are more diverse combos in play in Japan now with Deathscyther banned?

I empathize with the annoyance at Deathscyther's dominance. It was frustrating that I couldn't get anywhere when using anything except Deathscyther in the last tournament. But I also just think that's where this game is at right now, for better or (mostly) worse.

Summer's End - 24 September 2016

The Results...

1st - @[philo1114]
Deathscyther Heavy Accel
Deathscyther Heavy Revolve
Deathscyther Gravity Revolve
Trident Knuckle Claw (Now was this a troll or not... hm... xD )

2nd - Manicben
Deathscyther Heavy Zephyr
Deathscyther Gravity Revolve
Valkyrie Spread Needle

3rd - @[~Mana~]
Deathscyther Gravity Orbit
Dark Deathscyther Heavy Revolve
Wyvern Heavy Orbit

---

Hiya, I'm the guy who won the tournament in London with Deathscyther yesterday.

To be really honest, I do agree with banning Deathscyther just as what TT did.
Deathscyther has astonishing spinning duration, remarkable defense and a certain ability to burst the opponent, especially aginst wyvern. Which was kinda surprise for me when WBO banned Odin instead of Deathscyther, which is more powerful for me.

We tried to take advantage of Deathscyther's biggest weakness — its burstability — by making bursts worth 2 points, but it seems a lot of people weren't crazy about it. But I'd really hope to find a solution that doesn't turn our standard format into one with a revolving banlist.

I think it's a good idea to make bursting worth 2 points, not only as a counter-policy against the dominance of Deathscyther but for encouraging more players to try on attacking combos. It's terribly difficult to burst or KO in Burst, when it comes to combos picking, all i am thinking is how to outspin the opponent instead of how to burst, or how to KO. If burst finish worth 2 points, it'll definitely encourage to think and build combos which are more aggressive for bursting the opponents, which will directly increase the diversity of common combos in WBO tournaments.

The dominance of Deathscyther is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself. I sincerely believe that if we ban Deathscyther, we will just see Dark Deathscyther rise to the top. I actually predict that situation would be worse; D2 can outspin Odin, but it can't really outspin Deathscyther. Banning Deathscyther would transform D2 from versatile to unstoppable.

The problem with Deathscyther being the best layer is that it's teeth start to wear out making it almost useless, and that is a terrible design for the best layer in the game. For instance even if D2 did become the new Deathscyther at least that part does not wear out so people wouldent have to put tons of money in the same Beyblade in order to stay relevant in events.

Also I don't really see how D2 would be unstoppable at all, from what we've seen in NC D2 burst pretty easily, more so than a mint Deathscyther.

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Not my WBO

If durability is the main issue, should we also look into banning Valkyrie, which wears down exponentially faster?

We're going to need some tests of a Deathscyther-less metagame before we could go forward with exploring banning it.

This comes from someone who has never owned a Desthscyther and likely never will. I'm fairly certain the part is out of circulation and out of production at this point. In other words, eventually this is going to become a non-issue. People won't have Desthscyther anymore because there literally won't be any left. The part is destined to ban itself anyway.

Use that as an argument for or against the act of us banning it officially, I'm pretty neutral.

I actually brought up a point like that in my initial argument, thats one problem I have with it. It won't ban it self, it will be based on who gets some of the remaining access to having it.

In my opinion, I just do not see a solution in unbanning Odin, but at the moment it does look like people were given enough opportunity to diversify their counters and their metagame but Deathscyther stands out as the best choice right now despite many new releases. Dark Deathscyther seemed to be used just as much until very recently though, so I wonder if all Deathscyther parts should not be banned in one go while we are at it...

This would be the perfect solution. D2 is good/versatile enough it would cause Problems if DeathScyther was banned.

Personally if they are both banned I would forsee a heavier use of parts like Valkyrie and more attack based parts. It sounds nice thinking about it hah.

The thing about Dark Deathscyther is I've noticed it bursts more frequently then a new Deathscyther. If Dark Deathscyther rises to the top of the meta, I bet people would at least attempt to use stationary attack more considering how easier it appears to be to burst D2. Not to mention it's definitely more accessible (and cheaper) for players to buy D2 over Deathscyther.

Just from what I've seen Dark Deathscyther is way healthier for the game than the original Deathscyther was, easier to burst, easier to get and it doesn't wear out after event causing you to buy more.

I think we should definitely try some tournaments without Deathscyther soon, I know the WBO is trying to also test the experimental format right now but it would be interesting to see the meta with only Deathscyther banned.

The dominance of Deathscyther is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself. I sincerely believe that if we ban Deathscyther, we will just see Dark Deathscyther rise to the top. I actually predict that situation would be worse; D2 can outspin Odin, but it can't really outspin Deathscyther. Banning Deathscyther would transform D2 from versatile to unstoppable.

Yeah, but haven't you said in the past that you've had problems with Dark Deathscyther being easy to burst?

D2GD is a safe option ... until you face another D2. I had 3 or 4 consecutive double-burst draws in a match like that and several other double bursts against D2 later. That made it feel pretty unreliable for me.

While that post was talking about the Dark Deathscyther mirror match don't you feel that if it's bursting in that any other slightly aggressive parts should be able to burst it also? This probably needs some more testing, but what about stationary attack against Dark Deathscyther?

Also how does the situation become worse? We've seen Deathscyther dominate event after event and your stating that it even beats Dark Deathscyther. What's a new Deathscythers current check in the meta right now? Dark Deathscyther definitely seems a bit more beatable then the current situation.

So ban both Deathscythers then! Well, OK, we could do that I guess. But I bet you'd just see Odin Heavy Defense at the top of the list again, no matter how everyone has adjusted to it now. If we banned Odin, probably Wyvern? It's just the nature of Beyblade that players are incentivized towards the safest option. Attack-types need to have way more effective potential in order to compensate for their lack of safety, or else people won't play them. They need to be able to overwhelm the odds when played well. That's currently not really possible in Burst, sad to say.

I definitely think we should reevaluate how good Odin is again. It might've been the players or the launch techniques but Odin seemed so under whelming at the last event, regardless of Deathscyther being present or not. Also mind if I ask what seems to be harder to burst for you, Odin or Dark Deathscyther?

Is it the WBO's job to adjust the rules aggressively to compensate for the fact that there's been a drought of new effective attack layers with reasonable stamina (and that really is the crux of the issue here)? I'm actually pretty surprised to see many prominent members in favour of us banning parts now. Not that that's a bad thing, but it's not what I expected.

Considering this community is about keeping tournaments fun and enjoyable, while also remaining competitive and fair to players then yes it is the WBO's job to help this. Banning parts are to keep the balance of the game, other competitive games all ban strategies at points to keep it in check if nothing has come out to stop those current strategies.

Maybe they want to see more diversity or want some sort of change in the game. If the majority of prominent members are complaining about the game, doesn't that make you want something to change? How does that reflect the community if members want something banned and aren't enjoying the current format, do you think thats going to entice newer members to want to join?

We tried to take advantage of Deathscyther's biggest weakness — its burstability — by making bursts worth 2 points, but it seems a lot of people weren't crazy about it. But I'd really hope to find a solution that doesn't turn our standard format into one with a revolving banlist.

While I agree this seemed good in theory, considering the amount of random bursts that can occur in stamina mirror matches it really didn't work out in practicality. It added to much bad variance to the game.

Whats wrong in your standard format with a revolving banlist? While we can all admit Beyblade isn't quite the same as other competitive games most of these other games involve banlists. Banlists show that the higher ups in the community are listening and actively trying to make the game better. Imagine if Basalt would've been banned back in the day (like the majority of players wanted). It would've shown that the committee in this case is listening and actively trying to make the game better. Plus it theoretically would keep players adapting and generally when a new ban list comes out before the format is truly defined players try interesting strategies, some of which work while some not so much. I believe having a ban list would make this community look more professional and that we are taking action to stop problems. How many other games let the same strategy dominant for longer than a year after release?

And yes, it's worth acknowledging that Takara-Tomy banned Deathscyther in Japan, but the reasoning is transparent: the homogenity is due to their inability to produce reasonably powerful new parts. Is there any reason to think that there are more diverse combos in play in Japan now with Deathscyther banned?

I would actually be interested in hearing a few members who are currently in Japans to share how the current meta game is. I believe it would be more diverse than everyone using only Deathscyther, but I guess we'll have to wait to see.

I empathize with the annoyance at Deathscyther's dominance. It was frustrating that I couldn't get anywhere when using anything except Deathscyther in the last tournament. But I also just think that's where this game is at right now, for better or (mostly) worse.

Did you enjoy the last event? I definitely don't enjoy when the game is focused around Deathscythers (specifically newer ones).

If durability is the main issue, should we also look into banning Valkyrie, which wears down exponentially faster?

Is Valkyrie the best part in the meta game right now?

The reason we bring up the durability issue with Deathscyther is because since its such a powerful part, you have to continue buying new ones if you want to stay competitive against other fresh Deathscythers due to it becoming easier to burst with significant wear.

We're going to need some tests of a Deathscyther-less metagame before we could go forward with exploring banning it.

This would be interesting, do you think we could throw this in with a few experimental format test events?

Dark Deathscyther only seems to burst a lot against other Dark Deathscythers, due to how the contact points line up. Stationary attack isn't effective, and if it was, you'd see a lot more of it (since it would work against both Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther, the two biggest nuisances in the game right now).

Deathscyther is still very vulnerable to bursting from Valkyrie, and it's the only part that's capable of consistently outspinning parts like Odin and Dark Deathscyther. If you remove Deathscyther, both of those two move up the heap, yet neither of them has any clear vulnerabilities the way Deathscyther does. To test this, we don't even need to run a trial tournament; it should be easy to measure the performance of combinations standalone. If you think it needs more testing, you're welcome to post tests.

Regarding unbanning Odin, we already did it in experimental format and I would expect that to carry over once we finalize those rules and roll them out.

Did you enjoy the last event? I definitely don't enjoy when the game is focused around Deathscythers (specifically newer ones).

I enjoyed it, but it was also frustrating, because Burst is frustrating right now. We're still waiting for an attack layer that doesn't suck and doesn't wear down; still waiting for a new king of stamina that also has a vulnerability that can be overcome. We can take steps to address these shortcomings, but we can't really undo them.

Maybe they want to see more diversity or want some sort of change in the game. If the majority of prominent members are complaining about the game, doesn't that make you want something to change?

Of course it does. But 1. the "majority of prominent members" haven't asked us to ban Deathscyther, and 2. while quite a few people want Deathscyther banned, nobody has posted any tests trying to illustrate what the game would look like if that happened. It would probably look a lot like the video Kai-V posted below.

Thunder Dome, I already posted some footage of the combinations currently being used by competitive Bladers in Japan now that Deathscyther is banned:
https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Deathsc...pid1342114
They are exactly those we expected.


About Basalt, clearly something better was in the works to be released though: that was how Metal Fight Beyblade worked - heavier and better. Within a few months, Scythe, Phantom, better Attack options were all getting rolled out, as expected.

Also, part of what Brad mentioned is true: a Standard format is not supposed to always involve a banlist. This is not the Limited Format, where things are meant to always be banned, unbanned, re-banned, etc. That is also another reason why we were hesitant to ban Basalt back then, on top of the above paragraph.

Yes, MFB worked by releasing the "Heaviest Beyblade Ever!" and then outclassing it in mere months. Burst does need to address its meta problems, certainly, but MFB is not the template to follow.

Also, given that Chaos is the best pure stamina layer, has anyone tried stalling with that and something like Zephyr, say? Obviously it's risky but, if every opponent is a stationary D2, you should be alright.

I agree with Dracomageat, we can't just keep waiting for TT to release " the next best attack layer that does not wear down" or "the next stamina layer that has a weakness". If we've seen anything from waiting for TT to release a part to fix their game its that they are not going to release a part anytime soon. We need to act ourselves to fix Burst as TT isn't giving us help.

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Not my WBO

I used a Deathscyther combo at the BeyDays event I attended. Can confirm, Deathscyther is OP. (Source: I won the Burst format)

I used a Deathscyther combo at the BeyDays event I attended. Can confirm, Deathscyther is OP. (Source: I won the Burst format)

And if I remember correctly, it was a new Deathscyther, was it not?

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Not my WBO

This is a problem with this community, you want to wait. Deathscyther has been a part for more than a year and nothing has changed. You hope some new king of stamina or attack will be released to stop it but nothing has happened and the meta continues to be focused around Deathscyther.

Do you like the idea that the community is centered around buying more Deathscythers over and over once it wears out?

What vulnerabilities does Deathscyther have that Dark Deathscyther and Odin don't have? The teeth wear out but a new Deathscyther is definitely better than either of those two other parts in practically every way. I would like you both to explain what currently beats Deathscyther, and how the meta without Deathscyther would be worse.

New Deathscythers remove skill from the game. Dark_Mousy, EthanQ42, and philo1114 all players who previously had no success in Burst, "spam" new Deathscythers and end up winning events. Where's the strategy anymore? Slap Deathscyther on and hope your not playing a mirror? How could you want to play this format over one where there could be a few different options for stamina and attack could even have a chance to make a reappearance?

I used a Deathscyther combo at the BeyDays event I attended. Can confirm, Deathscyther is OP. (Source: I won the Burst format)

This was Wizard's first Burst tournament, he used a new Deathscyther Heavy Defense all day and swept.

This is a problem with this community, you want to wait. [...] Do you like the idea that the community is centered around buying more Deathscythers over and over once it wears out?

You made a thread to discuss it, so I'm here to discuss it. If the only reply that will make you happy is "OK, we'll ban it!" then it's not going to be much of a discussion. There are also tons of active competitive players who haven't posted in this thread nor asked to ban Deathscyther, so it would be nice to at least give them a chance to reply if they wish.

I'm on your side here (or at least, the side that wants the Beyblade community to have as much fun as possible) so I'd appreciate if we can refrain from accusing each other. I was also in support of banning Odin, so I am clearly not totally against banning parts (though I'd prefer not to).

I know you don't honestly think that I think it's a good thing that the community is "centered around buying more Deathscythers." (Or at least, I hope you don't.) But we don't make Beyblade. We are doing the best with the hand we've been dealt by Takara-Tomy and Hasbro.

What vulnerabilities does Deathscyther have that Dark Deathscyther and Odin don't have? The teeth wear out but a new Deathscyther is definitely better than either of those two other parts in practically every way. I would like you both to explain what currently beats Deathscyther, and how the meta without Deathscyther would be worse.

Valkyrie beats Deathscyther. If you're worried about parts wearing down, Valtyrek Heavy Revolve also crushes Deathscyther. You could probably win with Valtryek Heavy Zephyr too, though I haven't done the tests.

What's funny about this whole discussion is that in time period between Deathscyther's release and Odin's release, there weren't really any complaints about Deathscyther's dominance because it was easily countered by Valkyrie. The Valkyrie > Wyvern > Deathscyther triangle kept things in check. Of course, this is its own kind of homogeneity and comes with its own issues. But it also makes me think that Deathscyther itself isn't the real problem.

However, the arrival of Dark Deathscyther and now unbanning of Odin both put pressure against players selecting Valkyrie, so Deathscyther becomes the safest choice (since Valkyrie has poor odds against either of these). Rather than take the risk of trying to counter Deathscyther and ending up against D2 or Odin, most players will opt for the safe route and take Deathscyther.

When we made the decision to ban Odin, we did it after quite a bit of discussion and tests being posted by numerous players. There haven't been any tests posted in this thread yet and no counter-argument to the idea that Odin and Dark Deathscyther will simply move up to fill Deathscyther's slot in the metagame.

We want to solve this problem as much as you do, but we at least need evidence that it won't just create more problems. I don't think it's irresponsible of us to "wait," in that case.

And if your comment about waiting was in response to my message about how Basalt did not need to be banned back in Metal Fight Beyblade, then you do not understand: that was a reply to the accusation made on that, not related to Deathscyther. I do agree that we waited enough for solutions to Deathscyther and Odin and there is none.

I do agree that we waited enough for solutions to Deathscyther and Odin and there is none.

Do you think we should ban Deathscyther, then?

For what it's worth, I definitely agree that "waiting for better parts" isn't a viable option anymore either, though I am excited for Dragoon S and Lost Longinus. 8)

I also forgot that Toronto is doing some crazy side event with Deathscyther, Dark Deathscyther and Odin banned: https://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Toronto...TED--74263 So should be fun to see how that went.

Well, banning it is one easy solution but I am also not convinced about the state of the metagame after that is done. So, there might be other solutions in the same vein as doubling how much Bursts are worth that we have not explored yet.