World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Other Closed Threads

The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play

Feb. 15, 2014  5:55 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  5:52 PM)Leone19 Wrote: But are we talking about a clear wheel change?

A simple clear wheel change would certainly not have the same effect.

For example,

Changing F230 CF to F230 Q and changing Earth Cancer to Earth Eagle.

You can change CF to GCF, You can use any of the five on an F230 custom. Wyvang, Girago, Genbull, Reviser, and possibly even Killerken. Duo and Death can be used with Cancer, Bull, Hades, Cygnus, Aquario, and stilll have little to no effect on it performance.

Edit: Try re-reading TBD's arguement about even the most passive F230 setup can still dominate.
Feb. 15, 2014  5:59 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  5:55 PM)TheWhiteTiger Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2014  5:52 PM)Leone19 Wrote: But are we talking about a clear wheel change?

A simple clear wheel change would certainly not have the same effect.

For example,

Changing F230 CF to F230 Q and changing Earth Cancer to Earth Eagle.

You can change CF to GCF, You can use any of the five on an F230 custom. Wyvang, Girago, Genbull, Reviser, and possibly even Killerken. Duo and Death can be used with Cancer, Bull, Hades, Cygnus, Aquario, and stilll have little to no effect on it performance.

Edit: Try re-reading TBD's arguement about even the most passive F230 setup can still dominate.

I think you missed my point entirely...

Leone19 Wrote:By setup, I mean CF/GCF on F230 in general.

The point I was making a few posts ago, was that F230 will not be "broken" if not being used on CF/GCF on any Dragoon/Duo/Death/Genbull setup.

Try re-reading my posts, too.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:01 PM
 
Why use F230 in anything, but CF/GCF?
Feb. 15, 2014  6:05 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:01 PM)TheWhiteTiger Wrote: Why use F230 in anything, but CF/GCF?

Not to be rude, but did you read any of my previous posts?

No I'm not in favor of the ban... but...

Leone19 Wrote:If anything is definitely being banned, I'd say the F230 CF/GCF setup, not the part itself. People (including me) spent loads of money trying to obtain, so I don't think it would be fair to ban it completely, when in reality, it's only doing fantastic on a specific setup
.

I apologize if this is spamming the topic.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:07 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:05 PM)Leone19 Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:01 PM)TheWhiteTiger Wrote: Why use F230 in anything, but CF/GCF?

Not to be rude, but did you read any of my previous posts?

No I'm not in favor of the ban... but...

Leone19 Wrote:If anything is definitely being banned, I'd say the F230 CF/GCF setup, not the part itself. People (including me) spent loads of money trying to obtain, so I don't think it would be fair to ban it completely, when in reality, it's only doing fantastic on a specific setup
.

I apologize if this is spamming the topic.

Yes I read it....

What's the point of owning a F230 if you can't even use it to its fullest potential and F230 hasn't proven to work well on anything, but CF/GCF.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:10 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:07 PM)TheWhiteTiger Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:05 PM)Leone19 Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:01 PM)TheWhiteTiger Wrote: Why use F230 in anything, but CF/GCF?

Not to be rude, but did you read any of my previous posts?

No I'm not in favor of the ban... but...

Leone19 Wrote:If anything is definitely being banned, I'd say the F230 CF/GCF setup, not the part itself. People (including me) spent loads of money trying to obtain, so I don't think it would be fair to ban it completely, when in reality, it's only doing fantastic on a specific setup
.

I apologize if this is spamming the topic.

Yes I read it....

What's the point of owning a F230 if you can't even use it to its fullest potential and F230 hasn't proven to work well on anything, but CF/GCF.

Not Zero-G, but you can't say it doesn't do well on anything but CF/GCF.

http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-LTD-MF-L...rio-F230CS

TheWhiteTiger, I feel this is spamming the topic, so if there are any other arguments directed to me, please PM me instead.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:24 PM
 
You can put most competitive (chrome) wheels on F230CF/GCF and it will be atleast decent in Zero-G (this is what TheWhiteTiger is saying also). This is what is making me feel this is just to overpowered to keep in the game.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:27 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:24 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote: You can put most competitive (chrome) wheels on F230CF/GCF and it will be atleast decent in Zero-G (this is what TheWhiteTiger is saying also). This is what is making me feel this is just to overpowered to keep in the game.

Point being, competitive wheels, meaning you can't just take anything like Golem Pheonix, slap it on F230 CF/GCF and expect to always win.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:29 PM
 
Guys, I think I did it. Something in theblackdragon's thread gave me this idea and thanks to being a blader friend's house when I read it, I was able to test it immediately.

MSF Balro Dragooon SA165 (Zero-G Attack Mode) FB

The somewhat erratic movement of FB allows the custom is a whole to take some advantage of sway attack and go ham on Genbull Dragooon F230 GCF

BD vs. GD
BD wins: 70% (8 OS, 6 KO)
GD wins: 30% (3 OS, 3 KO)

Others please test this quickly, no idea if my results were biased based on some circumstance or other, but if others can duplicate these results, we may have something on our hands.

Even if this proves to be an effective counter, I am still entirely in favor of banning it. The only reason I am still searching for a counter at this point is for the sake of giving us something to work with in the transition period between F230 CF/GCF being banned.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:32 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:29 PM)Time Wrote: Guys, I think I did it. Something in theblackdragon's thread gave me this idea and thanks to being a blader friend's house when I read it, I was able to test it immediately.

MSF Balro Dragooon SA165 (Zero-G Attack Mode) FB

The somewhat erratic movement of FB allows the custom is a whole to take some advantage of sway attack and go ham on Genbull Dragooon F230 GCF

BD vs. GD
BD wins: 70% (8 OS, 6 KO)
GD wins: 30% (3 OS, 3 KO)

Others please test this quickly, no idea if my results were biased based on some circumstance or other, but if others can duplicate these results, we may have something on our hands.

Even if this proves to be an effective counter, I am still entirely in favor of banning it. The only reason I am still searching for a counter at this point is for the sake of giving us something to work with in the transition period between F230 CF/GCF being banned.

Quote:This thread is somewhat similar to the "Why F230CF/GCF Breaks the Game," but with a more focused concentration on an actual rule change, rather than discussion on counters/tournament result discussion, etc..
Feb. 15, 2014  6:51 PM
 
Regardless of whether it works or not, it'll most likely be junk against anything else, which means it doesn't fit the criteria of a good counter.

Banning F230 is the simplest rule change to make. I understand that some combinations using F230 can be horrible, but honestly, at that point you have no reason to use them, so banning it outright won't affect much more than banning specific setups.

It doesn't matter if your region hasn't seen F230 ravage everything. There are many, many variables that could prevent it from doing so (like, Snoop Dog MS, the fact that Michigan hasn't had a Zero-G tournament since April). There's ownership, reluctance to use the part, lack of knowledge on the part's ability, inability to launch it correctly, bad molds of F230, and multiple other variables.

I would like to make it blatantly clear, from this point forward (apparently I didn't make it clear enough), this has absolutely nothing to do with Standard format. We are talking about Zero-G format, and nothing else.

Tournament history and extensive testing has shown that F230 has the potential into utterly ruin an entire Zero-G metagame in a matter of weeks. It may not have happened to you specifically, but it has certainly happened to other people. Whether you like it or not, the possibility is there. Your meta could be wrecked. It just hasn't happened (yet).

It hasn't completely taken over the entire Zero-G tournament scene. That's not the problem we have here. The problem we have is that it has the ability to do so. We shouldn't wait for it to take over. We already know that it can, so we might as well stop it before it does.
Feb. 15, 2014  6:57 PM
 
The Alchemist Wrote:Also, what if the only Beyblade they had was a F230? That wouldn't be fair now, would it?


As simple as this sounds, The Alchemist made a point that was not addressed- what if for any reason, the only Spintrack a player had was F230? Would they be told they cannot play? It's not at all impossible. We can't assume other players would give him or her a part to use, can we?

Just one other point. Tongue_out

Yes, it has the ability to take over the tournament scene, but can we all assume it will?

If it will eventually become banned, I suggest we "allow its use" until BeyDays ( and/or GBT2), to at least give some developing F230 regions like mine a chance to find a possible counter/get the last kicks out of it before tucking it away. Does that make any sense?

Tongue_out
Feb. 15, 2014  7:00 PM
 
I'm not sure why banning the F230 is a good thing for the Zero-G competitive tournaments. I do know that the track works very well and fits well with good Zero-G combos, like I would pick Revizer Dragooon F230WD? (Sorry, I'm not very good at customizing Zero-G combos.)

The F230 does have an advantage in Zero-G battles. From what I have seen in Zero-G battles with F230, the Bey with F230 is much taller than the other and can just swoop under its opponent and send more damage. Plus, since it free-spins, it's a good track to use for your combo to save it more stamina and not get as much damage. For instance, imagine my opponent's Bey hitting directly at the F230 if my opponent's combo was shorter. My combo wouldn't get as much damage if its track was 145. There's two parts in the spin track. The top part is not movable (Not free-spinning, but it does spin in the battle), however, the bottom part is. So, if my opponent's Bey had hit the top of my Bey's F230, it would get damaged but the bottom of the F230 will start free-spinning, protecting it from getting more damage. That's what I like about the F230. I also heard that Hasbro's version of the F230 is worse than the Takara Tomy version. So, yes, I think it wouldn't be fair to use it in Zero-G/MFB tournaments. Cute
Feb. 15, 2014  7:03 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  7:00 PM)Brisk AquarioHD Wrote: I'm not sure why banning the F230 is a good thing for the Zero-G competitive tournaments. I do know that the track works very well and fits well with good Zero-G combos, like I would pick Revizer Dragooon F230WD? (Sorry, I'm not very good at customizing Zero-G combos.)

The F230 does have an advantage in Zero-G battles. From what I have seen in Zero-G battles with F230, the Bey with F230 is much taller than the other and can just swoop under its opponent and send more damage. Plus, since it free-spins, it's a good track to use for your combo to save it more stamina and not get as much damage. For instance, imagine my opponent's Bey hitting directly at the F230 if my opponent's combo was shorter. My combo wouldn't get as much damage if its track was 145. There's two parts in the spin track. The top part is not movable (Not free-spinning, but it does spin in the battle), however, the bottom part is. So, if my opponent's Bey had hit the top of my Bey's F230, it would get damaged but the bottom of the F230 will start free-spinning, protecting it from getting more damage. That's what I like about the F230. I also heard that Hasbro's version of the F230 is worse than the Takara Tomy version. So, yes, I think it wouldn't be fair to use it in Zero-G/MFB tournaments. Cute

We are talking about F230 on CF and GCF. It's very strong in Zero-G that way.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:04 PM
 
Well low tracks have a tendency to scrape in Zero-G especiialy when they are spinning around the edge becuase they're likely an attack type to provide a good hit against F230.

Also, F230 isn't used with WD, it's used with CF/GCF, giving it incredible amounts of LAD and attack power.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:08 PM
 
First off, nice work in pulling together such a long and detailed post, TBD.
Honestly, I feel like the worst possible option would be banning it in certain regions because I feel like that could reach a point where bladers who have a good F230 and are able to travel would start attending tournaments where it wasn't banned in order to use it. I personally have not experienced F230 sweeping a tournament, but I've seen enough data on here that it scares me. I assumed it wouldn't be a problem since it hadn't reached all regions, but when I heard that a number of CT bladers planned to get one after their previous tournament, it made me a little disappointed.
Agreeing not to use the part is no better. One cannot simply trust everyone at a tournament not to use the part and if we are to the point where we must agree not to use it, I see no reason why it shouldn't be banned all together to make this agreement official.
I have always liked switching it up, so to speak, at tournaments. I like trying to use at least 3 or 4 different combinations to win, but with one part being spammed, this is impossible. All this evidence proves that a good mold is a sure win.
Of course, I can see why people who have their hands on one would be upset—the part is expensive and obviously requires a great deal of money and time to acquire, which is why I would suggest giving a warning a month or so before a ban, so that anyone who bought one recently will be able to get some competitive use out of it before they have to put it away.
At this point, I'm beginning to lose hope. I, personally, do not have the money to afford half a dozen random booster volume 3s or spend $50 on one beyblade part that will eventually need to be replaced. If F230 "sweeps" the next tournament I attend, I may have to seriously consider calling it quits because honestly, there's no point in competing if I don't have the one part that will give me a chance to win.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:09 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:57 PM)Leone19 Wrote: If it will eventually become banned, I suggest we "allow its use" until BeyDays ( and/or GBT2), to at least give some developing F230 regions like mine a chance to find a possible counter/get the last kicks out of it before tucking it away. Does that make any sense?

Tongue_out


It got buried.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:09 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:57 PM)Leone19 Wrote:
The Alchemist Wrote:Also, what if the only Beyblade they had was a F230? That wouldn't be fair now, would it?


As simple as this sounds, The Alchemist made a point that was not addressed- what if for any reason, the only Spintrack a player had was F230? Would they be told they cannot play? It's not at all impossible. We can't assume other players would give him or her a part to use, can we?

Just one other point. Tongue_out

Yes, it has the ability to take over the tournament scene, but can we all assume it will?

If it will eventually become banned, I suggest we "allow its use" until BeyDays ( and/or GBT2), to at least give some developing F230 regions like mine a chance to find a possible counter/get the last kicks out of it before tucking it away. Does that make any sense?

Tongue_out

Money doesn't matter here. We're talking about the good of the game, not how to keep F230 owners happy (no offense obviously, but its the truth). If they only own F230, they'll just have to get another part from someone.

Banning only F230CF/GCF is an option, but the committee has the final say in that, and from what I've heard they usually don't like complicated bans put on anything.

No, absolutely not. In fact, the reason I posted this when I did was to make sure the thing gets kicked before Beydays LOL. XD

Actually, we can assume it will, because it already has. You don't realize that the cycle has already begun in CT. F230 has already been introduced. If it continues to be used, I can definitely assume that bad things will come of it, because the same thing has taken place in NC and MD. This isn't some imaginary process I've made up. It's already happened, and is still happening, and I can tell you from experience that it isn't fun.

Plus, I've already stated that it has the ability. Given enough time, the process will repeat itself. Again, should we just wait for It to destroy the game somewhere, or stop it before it inevitably does?
Feb. 15, 2014  7:11 PM
 
Leone19 Wrote:If anything is definitely being banned, I'd say the F230 CF/GCF setup, not the part itself. People (including me) spent loads of money trying to obtain, so I don't think it would be fair to ban it completely, when in reality, it's only doing fantastic on a specific setup
Has it been tested extensively on other flat tips? I feel like one could easily find a way around a ban on just CF & GCF but banning all flat tips would be like banning the part entirely.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:12 PM
 
Again, what I mean was that it would be decided before Beydays, perhaps a month or a few weeks before.

The reason being, people who have it and spent time and money to obtain it can get the last few kicks out of using it, while people who are pro-ban get their way, either way.

It's the best of both worlds.

Compromising is fun. Tongue_out
(Feb. 15, 2014  7:11 PM)The Supreme One Wrote:
Leone19 Wrote:If anything is definitely being banned, I'd say the F230 CF/GCF setup, not the part itself. People (including me) spent loads of money trying to obtain, so I don't think it would be fair to ban it completely, when in reality, it's only doing fantastic on a specific setup
Has it been tested extensively on other flat tips? I feel like one could easily find a way around a ban on just CF & GCF but banning all flat tips would be like banning the part entirely.

The circle/rim on CF and GCF is really what keeps it going- I'm sure people could try GF, but it wouldn't really work the same way.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:13 PM
 
CF/GCF has the disk around it that allows for additional LAD.

I personally like Leone19's idea, because it will give people time to expect a ban.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:14 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  7:09 PM)Leone19 Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:57 PM)Leone19 Wrote: If it will eventually become banned, I suggest we "allow its use" until BeyDays ( and/or GBT2), to at least give some developing F230 regions like mine a chance to find a possible counter/get the last kicks out of it before tucking it away. Does that make any sense?

Tongue_out


It got buried.

Eh, no. It needs to banned as soon as possible IMO. If a counter hasn't been found and it been this long, I don't think we need to keep it until then Tongue_out.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:15 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  7:14 PM)DRAGON KING Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2014  7:09 PM)Leone19 Wrote:
(Feb. 15, 2014  6:57 PM)Leone19 Wrote: If it will eventually become banned, I suggest we "allow its use" until BeyDays ( and/or GBT2), to at least give some developing F230 regions like mine a chance to find a possible counter/get the last kicks out of it before tucking it away. Does that make any sense?

Tongue_out


It got buried.

Eh, no. It needs to banned as soon as possible IMO. If a counter hasn't been found and it been this long, I don't think we need to keep it until then Tongue_out.

Again, for people who spent lots of time and money to obtain it- it would be fair if they had one or two more chances to use it, while before the main tournament season heats up, it'd be gone for good.

Once more, it'd be announced a few weeks before BeyDays, giving people more than enough time to prepare.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:19 PM
 
Oooooohh.

Yes, I'd assume the announcement would be made in advance, so we can all have a last event or two with it before beydays if we wanted to.

Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant, haha.
Feb. 15, 2014  7:20 PM
 
(Feb. 15, 2014  7:12 PM)Leone19 Wrote: The circle/rim on CF and GCF is really what keeps it going- I'm sure people could try GF, but it wouldn't really work the same way.
I figured as much. In that case, couldn't there simply be a rule change in which the whole beyblade must remain spinning for it to still be "in?"
Prev
Page 2
Next