Finally, someone else understands- that's what I told Kei when he asked me how I saw the meta if it were banned. It's going to be Duos and Dragoon everywhere- just without F230.

What then? Would people want Dragoon or Duo to be banned, for more diversity in the meta? Just a thought.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

>back to Duo and Dragooon

Isn't that what Zero G and standard mostly are anyways even when not used with F230, haha? Stressing the perfect launch with F230 is exaggerated in my mind, sure it takes practice, but its a skill every competitve blader ends up learning so it really isn't hard to learn a launch. I'm sure even the new members will have it down before long, so you'll probably see some new placers just because of it, and nothing else. Honestly re-reading your third paragraph, it really goes against everything else that you said unless I'm reading it wrong.

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still posi

Here's my opinion on this topic-

Talking to a few other people, I realized it would sort of be pointless to ban F230, only because F230 isn't completely dominating the meta. Against Dragooon F230, just use Dragooon SA165BWD, same goes for Duo F230 and Duo SA165BWD. As long as someone knows what they're doing and are knowledgeable enough to know how to counter it, it isn't the biggest problem. IN our past Toronto tournaments, yes we won using F230, but there are a large variety of other things we used to counter F230 and it worked.

I agree with Leone19 and Thunder Dome, banning F230 is pointless.

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>back to Duo and Dragooon

Isn't that what Zero G and standard mostly are anyways, haha? Stressing the perfect launch with F230 is exaggerated in my mind, sure it takes practice, but its a skill every competitve blader ends up learning so it really isn't hard to learn a launch. I'm sure even the new members will have it down before long, so you'll probably see some new placers just because of it, and nothing else. Honestly re-reading your third paragraph, it really goes against everything else that you said unless I'm reading it wrong.

Point being, it wouldn't be as diverse as some are saying.

Even if new members have the launch for each and every situation, the bigger issue remaining is that they'd still need a TT Orange, the rarest and most expensive F230, not to mention it's safe it say it's out of production. At the last CT event (unofficial), a member had the launch right, but still failed to win with F230 because it was a Hasbro Orange.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

>back to Duo and Dragooon

Isn't that what Zero G and standard mostly are anyways even when not used with F230, haha? Stressing the perfect launch with F230 is exaggerated in my mind, sure it takes practice, but its a skill every competitve blader ends up learning so it really isn't hard to learn a launch. I'm sure even the new members will have it down before long, so you'll probably see some new placers just because of it, and nothing else. Honestly re-reading your third paragraph, it really goes against everything else that you said unless I'm reading it wrong.

Well if the meta will still stay Duo and Dragooon then why ban it?

I'll try to get Stormscorpio1 on this discussion since he is on the side of not banning it. Also how many people have tested it against Dragooon SA165 TB? I remember after an event months ago TBD and myself tested Dragooon F230 vs Dragooon SA165 TB ans TB got most of the wins. Hopefully we can try this out next event.

>back to Duo and Dragooon

Isn't that what Zero G and standard mostly are anyways even when not used with F230, haha? Stressing the perfect launch with F230 is exaggerated in my mind, sure it takes practice, but its a skill every competitve blader ends up learning so it really isn't hard to learn a launch. I'm sure even the new members will have it down before long, so you'll probably see some new placers just because of it, and nothing else. Honestly re-reading your third paragraph, it really goes against everything else that you said unless I'm reading it wrong.

Well if the meta will still stay Duo and Dragooon then why ban it?

I'll try to get Stormscorpio1 on this discussion since he is on the side of not banning it. Also how many people have tested it against Dragooon SA165 TB? I remember after an event months ago TBD and myself tested Dragooon F230 vs Dragooon SA165 TB ans TB got most of the wins. Hopefully we can try this out next event.

I've used Dragooon SA165TB against F230 before, and it's great! It works just like SA165BWD, but not as good as it.

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Because with banning F230, Dragooon and Duo will see less use with the same combinations. I'm sure then SA165 (EWD/BWD/TB) will be used a lot, but I'm sure then we would see more sway, more stamina, etc. instead of the same F230 repitition. Is so much rather see other competitve Duo and Dragooon stuff than F230. As much as I'd love to see use of other wheels as well, that won't happen since Dragoooon and Duo both are just too versatile. I'm sure I'll get the "you've never even seen it in competitve play" thing, but seeing results, videos, and even some in real life, I just find it annoying that someone would just use this thing knowing they have such a huge chance.

I'm also sure I'll get the "overreacting" thing also, but I just want a healthy format where more competitiveness falls into the game. Honesty, I guess you could say I could care less which is almost true just because Zero G is my least favorite format, but again I just legitamently care about the community.

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still posi

Because with banning F230, Dragooon and Duo will see less use with the same combinations. I'm sure then SA165 (EWD/BWD/TB) will be used a lot, but I'm sure then we would see more sway, more stamina, etc. instead of the same F230 repitition. Is so much rather see other competitve Duo and Dragooon stuff than F230. As much as I'd love to see use of other wheels as well, that won't happen since Dragoooon and Duo both are just too versatile. I'm sure I'll get the "you've never even seen it in competitve play" thing, but seeing results, videos, and even some in real life, I just find it annoying that someone would just use this thing knowing they have such a huge chance.

I'm also sure I'll get the "overreacting" thing also, but I just want a healthy format where more competitiveness falls into the game. Honesty, I guess you could say I could care less which is almost true just because Zero G is my least favorite format, but again I just legitamently care about the community.

Banning F230 nowhere really means Sway and other things will return- it's going to be Duo and Dragoon either way, so I don't see the big loss of keeping that part legal, for that reason, as Thunder Dome stated as well.

Again, not anyone can just bring F230 and sweep an event- despite what others say, it does require a certain competeive skill to use it correctly.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Well if you look at the competitve combos list, Duo and Dragooon cover quite a bit of it in nearly every category, so yeah I'm fairly certain other combinations will return ...

You make it sound like it takes years to learn how to launch a beyblade a certain way. It's not hard, whatsoever.

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still posi

Woah woah woah woah...

Duo and Dragooon? What on earth are you guys talking about??

Our 2013 NC qualifier was one of the most amazing displays of diversity within a meta that I have ever seen. Duo and Dragooon spin stealers against each other only happened a handful of times throughout the entire tournament. There was ZRG Attack and Defense everywhere, along with Duo 230MB.

If you ask Dark, Thunder Dome and SS1, they'll tell you that I still talk about that tournament as what I would like to see the meta return to. It was awesome.

TBH, I have no idea where this whole "Oh no let's not ban it because Duo and Dragooon will just keep going head to head forever and there will be nothing to stop them" idea is coming from. If the meta did return to a basis of Dragooon/Duo Stamina, then think of how prevalent ZRG Attack would become! Don't even get me started on how many E230MB combinations would show up, along with Duo/Genbull TB HTSC combinations.

It would be amazing.

it does require a certain competeive skill to use it correctly.

Could you guys please, please, please stop saying this over and over and over again?

1) They're skills everybody already has. Weak/aggressive launching are techniques every competitive ZRG blader already knows. It's not something new; it's just re-application.

2) Your 8 year-old brother could learn the two (just two, mind you) launches in a matter of minutes - maybe even seconds if he's experienced at all. Launching at 50-60% power is not that difficult. It really isn't. Neither is launching hard and sliding your launcher forward slightly when you launch. You know what that's... kind of, exactly like? The sliding shoot. Except it's easier, because you don't have to bank!

Can we drop the whole "it requires skill, therefore a ban isn't justified" argument? It's so easy, IDK if you could even justly call it skill. And it's a skill everybody already has anyway.

Talking to a few other people, I realized it would sort of be pointless to ban F230, only because F230 isn't completely dominating the meta.

Why don't you take a little road trip down to the East Coast and we'll do you the honor of spamming our F230s the entire event (which is only ever stopped by our more or less mutual willingness to play without it).

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

I'll accept F230's ban if they committee is willing to pay for a part I bought with my money to play Beyblade back.

After all, I would of wasted £15.00 for nothing.

What I want to know is what are the pros of keeping F230? We have mentioned the cons numerous times, and various reasons why it doesn't deserve to be banned, but I'm curious why does it deserve to stay? It's caused problems in regions, that's for certain, so is there any big thing F230 has done for the metagame (besides dominate it in places)? Just curious.

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“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

Here's two reasons straight from the OP: ....


Stormscorpio1 Wrote:

Well as for my take on F230 I dont see the big deal about it i mean i did only use it twice in events (Revolution, BB-10 that Thunder hosted). I did do well in these tournaments going first and second but i wouldent say its all because of F230 I went to a BB10 tournament in NC in early december and got second with out useing the part and beating dark when he used it. I dont feel that any part should be banned though because everypart is made so that it can be used i mean yes some parts are better than others and get used a lot but by that logic Dragoon should be banned all together. I dont think the part should be banned and if you cant find a counter for it then use it yourself it clearly is a good part that can let even a somewhat poor blader do well in events but its not unbeatable and dragoon TB does a good job at stoping it thats how I beat it in Revolution.

Personally I feel F230 doesn't need a ban. In my opinion part of the game/tournament is having good parts and the other half is strategy. The parts were made to use, banning F230 would be crappy since that would be a waste of a part that some people paid for. Your suppose to have better parts and outwit your opponent in tournaments. Banning stuff sucks after people got those items and because you are suppose to have better parts than your opponent. People act like it is "fair" to ban it, but there are only thinking of the people who have to play against it. Banning the part that a person uses to make the match "equal" isn't the major point of this game. It's to win and banning something wont help. I've beat F230 on multiple occasions and it really isn't to hard to beat. It is really not that hard to figure out what spin they are going in since its a 50/50 chance. This is like Yu-Gi-Oh ban lists which suck after you spent a lot for cards just to have them gone and can't be used. This is my opinion and if anyone wants to put a valid argument against it that's fine, but please make sure it makes sense.

And then people have spent a lot of money on them, I've spent $16 to get one.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

Those two arguments were torn apart by TBD (the main person behind the thread itself, but anyway good to see him back) in the first post on this thread, try looking more carefully next time.

Dual: you mean the cons of keeping F230 and various reasons why it should be banned right? For me, nothing has happened because the part was powerful in a metagame, but not neccesarily universally. Something like Libra (of course, when it was released back then, not now except for Limited) is powerful universally within beyblade because it dominated metagames wide and far. F230's reign on the other hand does not (or hasn't) reached global doors.

That is my understanding of why this issue still stands today.

Those two arguments were torn apart by TBD (the main person behind the thread itself, but anyway good to see him back) in the first post on this thread, try looking more carefully next time.

Just becuase one person disagrees with it, doesn't mean it's wrong... try to use logic next time.

Dual: you mean the cons of keeping F230 and various reasons why it should be banned right? For me, nothing has happened because the part was powerful in a metagame, but not neccesarily universally. Something like Libra (of course, when it was released back then, not now except for Limited) is powerful universally within beyblade because it dominated metagames wide and far. F230's reign on the other hand does not (or hasn't) reached global doors.

That is my understanding of why this issue still stands today.

He specifically wanted pros.... that would probably be becuase very few countried outside of North America actually do tournaments.

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6 God is watching and I hope you're prepared to face him

@Echizen: whoopsee, i wrote without actually thinking, sorry for any offences to you bro.

Well, Libra's issue of banning or not was a high-level matter, but still we cannot deny that Libra's domination everywhere was absolute. Reminds me of the Gravity issue in Italy for whatever reason.

People's financial welfare shouldn't be the priority here. I'm sure an committee member would agree.

The priority is making sure the game is a fun, competitive one where people can come, play, and have a good time, without having to put up with a custom that's far too good to be fair for those who can't build it, or interesting for those who can.

That is a question that I was actually planning to bring up today - what are the actual benefits we reap from keeping the part legal?

BTW guys, I just went upstairs to do some more F230 vs. BWD testing, and I did something like 100 + rounds with my brother, and F230 kicked butt, using a faulty L/R launcher that skipped nearly every launch.

Just thought I'd mention it for the benefit of discussion.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

I didn't mention anything related to financial welfare here, those arguments were metagame-directed.

@TBD:
What the heck you posted faster even though your post is longer than mine lol.

Oh, I wasn't replying to you, haha. That was a response to the posts above yours.

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|Click here for the next tournament in North Carolina! |

I'll accept F230's ban if they committee is willing to pay for a part I bought with my money to play Beyblade back.

After all, I would of wasted £15.00 for nothing.

You're not the only one who's spent some ridiculous sums of money to buy this part. Don't be selfish. :\

And it's not like you can't still use it in Standard or Limited...

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

I'll accept F230's ban if they committee is willing to pay for a part I bought with my money to play Beyblade back.

After all, I would of wasted £15.00 for nothing.

You're not the only one who's spent some ridiculous sums of money to buy this part. Don't be selfish. :\

And it's not like you can't still use it in Standard or Limited...

I wasn't being selfish. I was simply making a point that the committee would ban a part that I worked hard to get.

I don't want to fight with you Angry F.

Many of the people who have F230 do want it banned; you don't see us complaining about how expensive it was to get, simply because keeping the game fun, with a variety of options, is more important. Ryuzaki, no offense, but I thought you said you wouldn't be playing anymore, seeing as your parts got stolen, so how would it make a difference to you if it was taken out of one of the many formats?

From my standpoint, the only argument that makes sense on behalf of keeping F230 is a financial one, but one could also make an argument for the reverse. Since this part is more or less crucial in several competitive regions, how is it fair for the people who can't afford to spend $50 on one easily breakable piece of plastic? I realize that this argument is taking the situation to the extreme and I'm just speculating here, but considering that the part is still gaining momentum in newer tournament regions, if its usage gets more out of hand, we could potentially see players dropping out for financial reasons alone. I was lucky enough to get an orange F230 with my second Random Booster, but if I hadn't would I still be hosting a Zero G tournament next Friday? I can't say.

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Beyblade Nation Discord Server | Meta Madness Beyblade Podcast
Combos I've developed:

Spoiler (Click to View)

Alter Chronos .8C.Ds (BST)
Genbull Genbull 90WD (STD)
Death Cancer E230RDF (STD)
Burn Aquario 90MF (LTD)
Lightning L Drago F: D (LTD)
Phantom Cancer ED145WD (LTD)
Burn Cancer B: D (LTD)
Saramanda Goreim LW160GF (Zero-G Sway)

I'll accept F230's ban if they committee is willing to pay for a part I bought with my money to play Beyblade back.

After all, I would of wasted £15.00 for nothing.

I want it banned. Ask me how muchni spent on all mine...

Its a game, sometimes parts needed to be rotated out for the sake of keeping the meta balanced. And in all honesty as much as I want it banned I doubt it will happen for the simple reason of how much petty arguing has gone on about it. F230 is op I'm the first to admit to it.

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My Blog (Updated 9/24

Well from what I've gathered the main pro of keeping F230 around is that relatively inexperience players who own it can perform well in tournaments. If they do well it could encourage them to come back and participate in more events. This could also be a con though, as if the newcomer doesn't have F230 and everyone else does, the newcomer will probably end up going 0-6 without winning a single battle, and be discouraged to return until they get the part everyone used to beat them with. And if we're bringing money into this, last time I checked confirmed Bandid Genbull was like $48 + 16 shipping, which is much more than I (and hopefully most other people here) are willing to pay for a spinning top.

As for what the meta would revert to, I've only been to one Zero-G tournament, and F230 was used quite a bit if only by a few people, but according to the book here are the other combos people used:
Revizer/Killerken Dragooon B:D
Revizer Genbull SA165EWD
Killerken Genbull B:D
and there were a few other combos that are not top-tier, but were still used:
Gargole Goreim AD145CS
Zirago Gryph 160BSF
Someone even won using a Crystal Wheel Beyblade, you can check it out in this video.
Besides F230(G)CF it seems like I was one of the few people that used Zero-G Attack.

@Financial argument:

understand that people spent well-earned money on their F230s (myself definitely included), but we're talking about the greater good here. If you own an F230 and you're upset that you can't use it, if you just stop moping about it long enough to see the good the ban does for the game, I believe you'll realize that the decision was ultimately beneficial.

Plus, you can look at it another way. There are plenty of people who spent hard-earned money on other competitive parts that F230 makes unviable. Because F230 is so utterly dominant, these parts might as well be illegal anyway. Somebody's parts are going to be useless, and somebody is going to end up out a few bucks either way. With the damage it does to the game, it might as well be F230 that goes. Even after that, if the part is not banned, people will have to pay ridiculous amounts of money to obtain it and do well on the tournament scene. That'll cost a llloooott of people a llloooott of money.

The financial aspect is ultimately inconsequential. In a situation like this, it's invalid to make that argument anyway, because it basically contradicts itself. Someone is going to be out money either way, so stating this is ultimately irrelevant (besides the fact that we're not supposed to look out for people's wallets. We're supposed to look out for the game itself).

I'm actually kind of surprised this is still going on, as this was pretty much the first argument I anticipated in February when I posted this thread, and I took measures to ensure it was dealt with in the OP.

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