[Takara Tomy]  META Parts

Hello everyone!

Since the community has very good / knowledgable Beyblade players, I'd like to build a Meta parts list with all of your feedback and opinion.
Feel free to express yourself, but rule number 1 is to keep it civil ;)

What I had in mind, was to list the parts in 3 tiers (Tier 1 is the best, Tier 2 is the next to best, and Tier 3 is simply outclassed).
To suggest a part, I also want a reason, or the specific use for the part.
Please specify Classic if it applies to the Classic Metagame.

The 3 categories possible would be Attack, Defense and Stamina. I don't know if balance is a thing.
There can be multiple parts of the same tier for a specific category.

Note: As you may know, I'm behind the Beyblade Planner Tool and I'd like to put the results in the meta section. Significant feedback will be credited and this thread will be linked for people to comment.

Thanks!

- - - - - - - - - 

LAYERS
- Tier1: Zwei, because it's very heavy and has 2 good contact points for attacks.
- Tier1: Judgement, its attack point are made of rubber and provides it with great burst potential.
- Tier1: Lord, able to change spin direction, can do any role.
- Tier2: Dread, heavy layer for a defensive left-spin layer, needs a Chip with tall teeth to be formidable which renders its entire gimmick null (as it won't activate as easily).
- Tier2: Tact, having 6 blades that protrude depending on the kind of GT Weight it is paired with (Gen = no protrusions, Sen = 6, Ten = 4, etc) doesn't really change much of its overall performance. Best used for Defense combos, but may have niche potential for spin-equalizing Stamina.
- Tier2: Archer Hercules, Used to be a monster in pure LAD and OWD, but was dethroned by Perfect Phoenix. The metal bows extend a bit further on powerful spins which provide good contact points for attacks, and on slightly slower spins will retract and assume a better Stamina form. Best used with the contact points slightly worn-down, but still works quite well from mint condition. Compatible and best used with Level Chips.
- Tier1: Perfect Phoenix, This took over the slot of aH for quite some time, mainly because its gimmick enables it to provide an obstacle in the stadium for the opponent (double-edged sword as it can inhibit your own combo), and the remaining Core has amazing LAD and OWD on the right combos. Compatible and best used with Level Chips.
- - - - - - - - - 

GATINKO CHIPS
- Tier1: Diabolos, because it's among the heaviest combo (Chip + Layer Weight). Sadly can't use a different Layer Weight to affect its balance.
- Tier1: Bahamut, a must have chip for left spinning bey, provides good burst resistance and is great for attack.
- Tier2: Valkyrie, has 2 tall teeth, mostly used with Stamina/Defense Drivers that have weaker springs.
- Tier1: Spriggan, all-around good chip suitable for both spin direction.
- Tier2: Achilles, good balanced chip for right spin layers.
- Tier2: DragonII, synergy with Imperial Base, works a bit better than the original Dragon Chip for attacking. Works best with Dash Drivers.
- Tier1: Odin, Good attacking chip, synergy with Knockout Base, works best with Dash Drivers but still has good Burst resistance with most meta-worthy Drivers (due to somehow tall teeth akin to Valkyrie).
- Tier1: Longinus, Quite similar to Valkyrie Chip but for exclusive left-spin. Best partnered with Dash Drivers to fully utilize the Burst resistance, but will still do good on non-Dash Drivers with the correct combos.

- - - - - - - - - 

LAYER WEIGHTS
- Tier1: Diabolos, because it's among the heaviest combo (Chip + Layer Weight). Sadly can't use a different Layer Weight to affect its balance.
- Tier1: Goku, the heaviest layer weight without a chip included, balanced for general usage.
- Tier2: Gen, helps with burst resistance but sacrifices weight. Used mostly in left-spin for spin equalization.
- Tier2: Zan, has balanced capabilities, and still has better OWD than Sen with ample weight to boot.

- - - - - - - - - 

FORGE DISCS
- Tier1: Sting, great for about anything, heavy.
- Tier1: Blitz, heavy and great for attacking.
- Tier1: 00, the heaviest core disc, high OWD, excels in LAD stamina combos. Combine it with a frame.
- Tier1: 0, very tight with some layer, heavy and accepts a frame.
- Tier2: 10 good for stamina combos
- Classic Tier1: Heavy, among the heaviest in classic, provides ample balance.

- - - - - - - - - 

DISC FRAMES
- Tier1: Wall, godly with bearing for LAD, kinda bad for anything else.
- Tier2: Proof, provides good LAD, but is a bit light.
- Tier1: Cross, great LAD and The four protrusions also can work for Attack-oriented combos and adds to the contact points for spin-equalization.
- Tier2: Bump, used for its weight and large circumference that makes it good for defense. Could be used for attack too.

- - - - - - - - - 

DRIVERS
- Tier1: Bearing, godly combo with the Wall frame, very good LAD and stamina. Use against opposite spin.
- Tier1: Atomic, great stamina, a top choice for same spin opponent.
- Tier1: Xtend+, amazing LAD and stamina, excels in opposite spin battles.
- Tier1: Xtreme', crazy attack patterns, very aggressive.
- Tier1: Quick', crazy attack patterns, very aggressive.
- Tier2: Hn', good attack patterns.
- Tier2: Destroy', great attack, LAD and good stamina. Balanced driver.
- Tier1: Keep', provides very good defense against KO.
- Tier2: Unite', while it requires to be worn a bit, it provides ok defense.
- Classic Tier2: Yielding, offers the best burst resistance and used in stamina combos.

- - - - - - - - -
Gatinko Chip : Diabolos - Pros : Chip is heavy | Chip works with both spin directions. - Cons : Has weight built in, meaning other weights can't be utilized to change it's effect on the battle.
(Dec. 17, 2019  8:03 PM)NcryptedConfig Wrote: Gatinko Chip : Diabolos - Pros : Chip is heavy | Chip works with both spin directions. - Cons : Has weight built in, meaning other weights can't be utilized to change it's effect on the battle.

Would it be for Attack / Defense / Stamina? More than one option?
Description is 10/10 thanks!
Layer: judgement
Tier: 1
Reasons:
It’s revolutionary rubber contact points shook the meta game at the time of its release, and is still a staple part because of its burst potential
Layer: Zwei
Tier: 1
Reason: As good as judgement. One of the few layer bases to have metal giving it more attack power. Aggressive design giving it great attack.
Layer: Lord
Tier: 1
Reason: Great replacement for judgement or zwei for attack, and can change spin direction.

Driver: Destroy’
Tier: 2
Reason: Overall great balance. Great attack, good stamina, great burst resistance, and great LAD.
Edit Reason: mispelled Yielding -->
GT Chip: Bahamut
Tier: 1
Role: Attack
Reason: The seven teeth allow for incredible burst resistance for Left Spin beys, Mainly on Attack Types and Dash Drivers. As of writing it lacks much competition, especially from pure left spin chips.

Driver: Yielding
Tier: 2 Classic
Role: Stamina,Burst Defence, Burst Attack
Reason: Yielding has the best burst resistance of any non dash driver, and arguably the best including Dash drivers. With its Delrin cone shaped tip, it can OS many opponents but is susceptible to KOs.
(Dec. 17, 2019  8:07 PM)Mikuri Wrote:
(Dec. 17, 2019  8:03 PM)NcryptedConfig Wrote: Gatinko Chip : Diabolos - Pros : Chip is heavy | Chip works with both spin directions. - Cons : Has weight built in, meaning other weights can't be utilized to change it's effect on the battle.

Would it be for Attack / Defense / Stamina? More than one option?
Description is 10/10 thanks!

GT Chip/Weight: Diabolos 
Tier: 1
Role: Balance
Reason: Despite the downside of being a GT Chip and Weight fused into one, the heaviness and OWD it has to offer definitely makes up for it. It is mostly used to add subtle weight into combos along with utilizing the medium teeth with Dash Drivers, and it can be used with both left and right spin Bases that allow GT Weights to be put on them. 



GT Weight: Gen 

Tier: 2
Role: Balance
Reason: Basically a rubber Burst stopper for any Base that allows GT Weight compatibility, giving a bit more Burst resistance and sacrificing weight overall. Not really recommended but would work mainly for left-spin spin-equalizing combos.





Core Disk: 00 

Tier: 1
Role: Balance
Reason: Has high OWD, basically a fusion of the OWD of 7/10, with the massive weight of 0 (00 is heavier than 0). Typically used in LAD Stamina combos, but can also be beneficial for LAD Attack, hence it is highly versatile.




Frame: Cross 

Tier: 1

Role: Balance
Reason: Best used for its LAD due to the smooth underside. The four protrusions also can work for Attack-oriented combos and adds to the contact points for spin-equalization.



Frame: Bump

Tier: 2

Role: Balance
Reason: Used to be the heaviest Frame in the meta prior to Chouzetsu releases, it had acceptable LAD with a wide circumferential coverage along with a good amount of weight to boot, making it ideal especially for Defense Beys. It also has use for Attack primarily for the Weight it provides, but there are other Frames that can also do the same with better LAD potential.



Driver: Xtend+ 

Tier: 1

Role: Stamina
Reason: This currently has one of, if not, the best LAD potential from all of the Drivers released so far. Main downside is that despite it having a Defense mode, it still is easily KO'd if the opponent knows how to launch their Beys against yours.





Driver: Bearing 

Tier: 1

Role: Stamina
Reason: Best for spin-equalizing, not too ideal for same-spin match-ups. Easily KO'd but has one of the longest spin times on a balanced and tuned-up combo.
Should be updated up to this post.
I've also added tons of entries with the help of MagikHorse and Jonathan53332.

I would love to get more feedbacks on layers and GT chips for right spin.
R spin chips: Valkyrie chip, Achilles chip, Pegasus chip

R spin layers: Perfect Phoenix, Archer Hercules (debatable), Orb Egis (Perfect Phoenix killer)
Some of the parts are not in the meta, but I've been fiddling with some combos and pitting them up against what wins nowadays so I thought some of those deserve to be noticed as well (they're all ranked Tier 2 and 3).


GT Chip: Valkyrie
Tier: 2
Role: Stamina/Defense
Reason: Having 2 tall teeth, it mostly is used with Stamina/Defense Drivers that have weaker springs. It was listed as one of the Chips on the heavier side of the spectrum, but its Burst resistance is highly influenced by the type of Driver it is paired with. Compatible with Layer Weights



GT Chip: Pegasus
Tier: 3
Role: Attack
Reason: One tall tooth, one short tooth, and a slight slope makes it most compatible with Heaven Base's gimmick, but it still has some potential mainly on Stamina Bases with Attack Drivers. Compatible with Layer Weights



GT Chip: Spriggan
Tier: 1
Role: Balance
Reason: Can be used with either left or right-spin Bases, it has good synergy with most Drivers and is compatible with Layer Weights



GT Chip: Achilles
Tier: 2
Role: Balance
Reason: Similar to Spriggan but only for right-spin, it has good synergy with most Drivers and is compatible with Layer Weights



GT Chip: Dragon2
Tier: 2
Role: Attack
Reason: Synergy with Imperial Base, works a bit better than the original Dragon Chip. Works best with Dash Drivers. Compatible with Layer Weights



GT Chip: Odin
Tier: 1
Role: Attack
Reason: Synergy with Knockout Base, works best with Dash Drivers but still has good Burst resistance with most meta-worthy Drivers (due to somehow tall teeth akin to Valkyrie). Compatible with Layer Weights



GT Chip: Hydra/Hyudra
Tier: 3
Role: Attack
Reason: Quite similar to Pegasus Chip with another teeth instead of the slope. Not too great but still has some nice Burst Resistance and compatible with Layer Weights



GT Chip: Ashura
Tier: 2
Role: Attack
Reason: Quite similar to Bahamut Chip but for exclusive right-spin. Best partnered with Dash Drivers to fully utilize the Burst resistance and compatible with Layer Weights.



GT Chip: Longinus
Tier: 1
Role: Attack/Stamina
Reason: Quite similar to Valkyrie Chip but for exclusive left-spin. Best partnered with Dash Drivers to fully utilize the Burst resistance, but will still do good on non-Dash Drivers with the correct combos. Compatible with Layer Weights.



GT Weight: Zan
Tier: 2
Role: Balance
Reason: Has balanced capabilities, and still has better OWD than Sen with ample weight to boot.



GT Weight: Sen
Tier: 3
Role: Stamina
Reason: Supposed to have the best OWD due to its registered typing, but fails miserably due to the weight being too diminished to actually contribute to the spin time of a combo.



GT Base: Dread
Tier: 2
Role: Defense
Reason: Reincarnation of Ark Bahamut. Quite heavy for a left-spin, but needs a Chip with tall teeth to be formidable which renders its entire gimmick null (as it won't activate as easily).



GT Base: Tact
Tier: 2
Role: Defense
Reason: Having 6 blades that protrude depending on the kind of GT Weight it is paired with (Gen = no protrusions, Sen = 6, Ten = 4, etc) doesn't really change much of its overall performance. Best used for Defense combos, but may have niche potential for spin-equalizing Stamina.




GT Base: Wizard
Tier: 3
Role: Stamina/Defense
Reason: Overly exposed rubber contact points reaching even its underside make it the most ideal spin-equalizer, but its LAD suffers a lot due to it as well. It makes the GT Chips raised up, hence it needs Chips with very tall teeth and possibly Gen as the Weight just to compensate for the Burst risk. This easily dies against same spin.




Layer: Archer Hercules
Tier: 2
Role: Attack/Stamina
Reason: Used to be a monster in pure LAD and OWD, but was dethroned with the coming of the Phoenix releases. The metal bows extend a bit further on powerful spins which provide good contact points for attacks, and on slightly slower spins will retract and assume a better Stamina form. Best used with the contact points slightly worn-down, but still works quite well from mint condition. Compatible and best used with Level Chips.



Layer: Perfect Phoenix (Dead Armor and Revive Core)
Tier: 1
Role: Stamina
Reason: This took over the slot of aH for quite some time, mainly because its gimmick enables it to provide an obstacle in the stadium for the opponent (double-edged sword as it can inhibit your own combo), and the remaining Core has amazing LAD and OWD on the right combos. Compatible and best used with Level Chips.



Layer: Orb Egis
Tier: 3
Role: Stamina/Defense
Reason: Being tested and proven as a pP killer, that is its main and sole usefulness. Against all other Layers, it will most probably Burst or lose via Spin Finish. Compatible and best used with Level Chips.


Layer: Chouzetsu Spriggan
Tier: 2
Role: Balance
Reason: The Burst stopping Chouzetsu Wings made it soar the winning lists and stayed quite a bit until the introduction of Lord Base. Despite the lack of rubber as it had with Sr, it still had that greatness in the meta standing both as a spin-equalizer and smash attacker.



Layer: Spriggan Requiem
Tier: 2
Role: Stamina
Reason: Until the coming of Lord Base, this was one of the best Layers used primarily for its dual-spin capability and strong teeth. Add its smallness, the metal center as well as the rubbers for spin-equalization, this Layer graced the winning lists pre-GT.



Core Disk: 7
Tier: 2
Role: Balance
Reason: Used to be one of the best Core Disks pre-Chouzetsu for the stamina and OWD it had. With the introduction of heavier Layers and Bases, this Disk works to minimize Burst risk at the expense of overall weight and stamina compared to combos on 00, for example.



Core Disk: 11
Tier: 3
Role: Stamina
Reason: Basically a poor-man's 7 Disk, too light to actually provide weight but it can work on low-height Stamina Drivers on its own (without a Frame) due to its very smooth underside providing ample LAD but offers little to no stamina boost.



Core Disk: 5
Tier: 2
Role: Attack
Reason: For some reason, its design makes it hug the God System Layers quite nicely, providing some Burst Resistance; it doesn't seem to have the same effect on the newer Layer Systems, but because its weight is lesser than 7, it still mitigates Burst risk for heavy Layers/Bases even on weak Drivers.




Forge Disk: Heavy
Tier: 1 (Classic)
Role: Balance
Reason: Being the heaviest Forge Disk in the Single Layer System, this has seen quite a lot of use in many tournaments (especially in pre-Dual Layer era) as it still has ample balance to suit most combos from any type (at least in Classic).



Forge Disk: Polish
Tier: 3
Role: Stamina
Reason: Disk design enables it to hug some Layers, hence providing added Burst resistance along with the perfectly smooth and round underside for LAD. Downside is the lightness of the Disk which will inevitably lose against tankier opponents.



Forge Disk: Jerk
Tier: 3
Role: Defense
Reason: Has a somewhat smooth underside like Polish with roughly similar weight, but has little to no stamina boost to most combos. Since combos rarely have low-height Drivers available, it is almost impossible to utilize the "bounding" gimmick of Jerk and would only exacerbate scraping.




Core Disk: 12
Tier: 3
Role: Attack
Reason: FREE THE 12!!!! Kidding aside, this Disk is too dangerous to be used without a Frame (unless you really want to wreck your opponent's Bey or yours), and doesn't really have any notable features to set it apart from better Disks in Burst.




GT Disk: Ratchet
Tier: 2
Role: Stamina
Reason: Best for spin-equalization, bad against same-spin due to scraping risk especially against aggro attack combos.




GT Disk: Around
Tier: 2
Role: Balance
Reason: Similar to Cross and Proof, it has good LAD and notably nice OWD because of the 4 metal balls underneath. Quite heavy and good for attackers as well.




GT Disk: Vanguard
Tier: 1
Role: Stamina/Defense
Reason: Basically a glorified Armed/Vertical Disk, but has some good synergy with Bearing alone, acting like Wall for the precession.




Frame: Expand
Tier: 2
Role: Attack
Reason: Has roughly similar weight with Bump, but works best on left-spin setups for the upper attack. Smooth underside also provides some LAD but not to the extent of Proof.




Frame: Proof
Tier: 2
Role: Balance
Reason: Could've had the most LAD potential if not for the designs of the underside that made it less effective than Cross. Similarly heavy as Bump, but the lowered design forces it to scrape early.



Frame: Glaive
Tier: 2
Role: Stamina/Defense
Reason: Slightly similar to Proof but with 2 protrusions and a higher underside (less scrape). A bit lighter than Cross but also has good LAD



Frame: Dagger
Tier: 2
Role: Attack
Reason: Best used with tall Drivers and works well with the Xcalibur line. Basically a more aggressive version of Hit with an added contact point and lesser LAD potential.




Driver: Zeta'
Tier: 2 (Classic)
Role: Balance
Reason: Mainly used for the stronger spring for higher Burst Resistance, but the tip choices it comes with are severely outclassed even in Classic.




Driver: Dimension'
Tier: 2
Role: Attack
Reason: Has a bit of use mainly for the stronger spring, but will be able to consistently KO on the correct combo on its lowest height attack mode setting (without the rubber tip); the balance mode (with the rubber tip) is quite helpful especially against rubber-tipped attackers to avoid KO and even be able to reflect damage back to the opposition




Driver: Zephyr'
Tier: 2
Role: Attack/Stamina
Reason: Used to be just a tornado staller, has good potential for flower-pattern attacks depending on the launch angle, and improved Burst resistance compared to its normal variant. Poor LAD makes it suffer defeat from spin-equalizers.




Driver: Octa
Tier: 2 (Classic)
Role: Balance
Reason: One of the heaviest Drivers allowed for classic play. Despite its typing, it actually has subpar Defense capabilities, less than acceptable Stamina, but still ample LAD with the correct combo.



Driver: Orbit Metal
Tier: 2
Role: Attack/Defense
Reason: A slightly improved Orbit with a metal ball instead of plastic, which added significant weight and stability. Good KO resistance but poor stamina and LAD still. Best for stationary attackers.



Driver: Eternal
Tier: 2
Role: Stamina
Reason: Almost similar to Xt+, but has a better Burst resistance (worse than Revolve). Used to be best with Stamina Layers like aH, but Xt+ takes the spot for the LAD potential. Still a fun part to use despite the high KO risk.




Driver: Ultimate Reboot'
Tier: 1
Role: Attack/Stamina
Reason: A slightly improved Ultimate Reboot with its better Burst resistance, it has synergy with certain Frames to allow it to reach its maximum LAD potential. At high spins it functions as a slow attacker, but then proceeds with a flower-pattern attack upon being hit. It has good stamina despite the tip being made mostly of rubber.




Driver: Hybrid
Tier: 2
Role: Attack/Defense
Reason: Controversial electric Driver due to number of reported breakages. Quite fragile for Burst action, but has some stamina and LAD potential due to its sheer weight and shape. However, it takes up the slot for a Disk (and Frame), so customization is quite limited.



Driver: Ignition'
Tier: 2
Role: Attack/Defense
Reason: Controversial electric Driver due to number of reported breakages. Quite fragile for Burst action, but has some stamina and LAD potential due to its sheer weight and shape. However, it takes up the slot for a Disk (and Frame), so customization is quite limited.
[quote pid='1564140' dateline='1577681406']
Spriggan 
Gatinko Chip
Tier 1
Role: Burst resistance
Reason
The teeth are very good on spriggan put it on judgment and was really tight

Plus spriggan works on left and right layers 
I tried it with slash worked tried it with dread worked
[/quote]
(Dec. 30, 2019  5:31 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: GT Chip: Ashura
Tier: 2
Role: Attack
Reason: Quite similar to Bahamut Chip but for exclusive right-spin. Best partnered with Dash Drivers to fully utilize the Burst resistance and compatible with Layer Weights.
Given that Ashura came first and Bahamut second, this feels weird to describe Ashura as "similar to Bahamut" when Bahamut is the imitator of Ashura. Also questioning it's Tier 2 rating given how many times Judgement Ashura crops up on ' drivers.

(Dec. 30, 2019  5:31 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: Forge Disk: Heavy
Tier: 1 (Classic)
Role: Balance
Reason: Being the heaviest Forge Disk in the Single Layer System, this has seen quite a lot of use in many tournaments (especially in pre-Dual Layer era) as it still has ample balance to suit most combos from any type (at least in Classic).
I had to reread this, as it sort of confused me that you're calling it the heaviest in the single layer system (I call it the basic layer system as a throwback to the plastic days, but I don't think there's official word on which is correct for Burst) when there were so few options there. It's more notable that it's tied for second heaviest among all pre-core disks (along with Gravity), but without the instabilities of Quarter.

(Dec. 30, 2019  5:31 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: Forge Disk: Polish
Tier: 3
Role: Stamina
Reason: Disk design enables it to hug some Layers, hence providing added Burst resistance along with the perfectly smooth and round underside for LAD. Downside is the lightness of the Disk which will inevitably lose against tankier opponents.
Despite its light weight, on an LAD-heavy combo in opposite spin it's still really good and the best you can get outside of a core disk combo. Calling this Tier 3 seems sorta wrong in that regard.

(Dec. 30, 2019  5:31 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: GT Disk: Vanguard
Tier: 1
Role: Stamina/Defense
Reason: Basically a glorified Armed/Vertical Disk, but has some good synergy with Bearing alone, acting like Wall for the precession.
I'm questioning why this is Tier 1 when Wall and Lift combos easily outperform it. It makes Vanguard feel like a backup plan, not a main star like a Tier 1 rating seems to say.

(Dec. 30, 2019  5:31 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: Frame: Glaive
Tier: 2
Role: Stamina/Defense
Reason: Slightly similar to Proof but with 2 protrusions and a higher underside (less scrape). A bit lighter than Cross but also has good LAD
It should be noted that Glaive only has good LAD in left-spin. That being said I'd call it Tier 1 as the most suitable backup to Cross in left-spin combos, where it's ridiculously close to Cross in terms of performance.

(Dec. 30, 2019  5:50 AM)Joshcatplays Wrote: Spriggan 
Gatinko Chip
Tier 1
Role: Burst resistance
Reason
The teeth are very good on spriggan put it on judgment and was really tight

Plus spriggan works on left and right layers 
I tried it with slash worked tried it with dread worked

This post confuses me because it is just terribly done.
I would like to say that the GT bahamut chip is likely the worst chip in beyblade. It's the only chip that you can put on the Lord layer that will enable it to burst against opponents.
(Jan. 01, 2020  2:45 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:
Given that Ashura came first and Bahamut second, this feels weird to describe Ashura as "similar to Bahamut" when Bahamut is the imitator of Ashura. Also questioning it's Tier 2 rating given how many times Judgement Ashura crops up on ' drivers.

Oh, I was referring to Ashura's likeness to Bahamut since I saw on the 1st page that Bahamut was already listed there, so I was assuming that readers would also be able to understand what I meant by "similar to Bahamut Chip". As for putting it in Tier 2, I was weighing in Diabolos as the more stable and powerful Chip than it, yet I do agree I've seen lots of JA combos on Dash Drivers that it should be pulled up to Tier 1 instead.

(Jan. 01, 2020  2:45 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:
I had to reread this, as it sort of confused me that you're calling it the heaviest in the single layer system (I call it the basic layer system as a throwback to the plastic days, but I don't think there's official word on which is correct for Burst) when there were so few options there. It's more notable that it's tied for second heaviest among all pre-core disks (along with Gravity), but without the instabilities of Quarter.

I was thinking that it would be called "Single" since there is already a "Dual" Layer System that proceeded it (so from what you're saying, there's no official term for that specific Layer System?). I would say that it is to be corrected into "the heaviest and balanced Forge Disk" probably to avoid such confusion. I feel Gravity is more of a placeholder for it, though I cannot deny it should have some attention as well (given some winning combos having it).

(Jan. 01, 2020  2:45 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:
Despite its light weight, on an LAD-heavy combo in opposite spin it's still really good and the best you can get outside of a core disk combo. Calling this Tier 3 seems sorta wrong in that regard.

You're probably right on the Tier level, but I was referring to it on the standard format, where there are evidently better-suited Core Disk+Frame combos that have already outclassed it, especially when heavier Bases are being introduced in either or both spin directions, rendering left-spin/opposite spin as common in tournaments. I should've put it on Tier 2 (Classic) in that case.

(Jan. 01, 2020  2:45 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:
I'm questioning why this is Tier 1 when Wall and Lift combos easily outperform it. It makes Vanguard feel like a backup plan, not a main star like a Tier 1 rating seems to say.

Upon backreading that entry, I guess I made a brain fart, and wholly agree it should probably be pulled down to Tier 2 since there are Core Disk+Frame combos already outclassing it prior to its conception.

(Jan. 01, 2020  2:45 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:
It should be noted that Glaive only has good LAD in left-spin. That being said I'd call it Tier 1 as the most suitable backup to Cross in left-spin combos, where it's ridiculously close to Cross in terms of performance.

This I cannot dispute either, and do apologize for not being thorough with the description for it.


(Jan. 01, 2020  2:45 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:
This post confuses me because it is just terribly done.

I actually didn't really understand either, though I did get he is trying to justify why Spriggan Chip is Tier 1. And possibly English might not be his native language.


(Jan. 01, 2020  3:32 AM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: I would like to say that the GT bahamut chip is likely the worst chip in beyblade. It's the only chip that you can put on the Lord layer that will enable it to burst against opponents.

I beg to disagree, since Bahamut Chip would only be useless if your Lord Base already has worn-down its Burst resistors. That, and you're possibly not using painted Disks or Blitz. In fact, all three left-spin Chips are quite viable and really just depend on your combo construction. 

If I had to say one, the worst GT Chip would be between Pegasus and Hyudra, cuz both of them don't really have any good edge against their other right-spin brothers (and sisters?)
I tested the clear and the red (zwei) bahamut chips on both my original Lord layer and a newly purchased Lord layer, using Lord Bahamut Outer(red) Xtend+. Both the Bahamut chips caused both lords to blow apart in the corner, would constantly advance him to the last click at the end of stamina matches, and actively burst against both Cosmo and Dead Hades combinations. It's not at all a good chip.

Quick Edit - It's actually the chip I've tested the most since I wanted to have a Bahamut representative as a member of my deck. I now refer to Balkesh as "The true Bahamut" instead of playing with this chip.
(Jan. 01, 2020  3:43 AM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: I tested the clear and the red (zwei) bahamut chips on both my original Lord layer and a newly purchased Lord layer, using Lord Bahamut Outer(red) Xtend+. Both the Bahamut chips caused both lords to blow apart in the corner, would constantly advance him to the last click at the end of stamina matches, and actively burst against both Cosmo and Dead Hades combinations. It's not at all a good chip.

Hmm. Why Outer.Xtend+ when you can use Blitz.Bearing? Also, if you think it Bursts too much, you can just use Longinus for that. Iirc, even color variations of Xtend Driver have varying spring strength. I've been using the original red from the zA release up to now without any problems.

Maybe when I get home from work I'll try to replicate those tests you have mentioned. But please keep in mind that parts variation is a thing with Beyblades, so it may just coincidentally be your Bahamut copies that are affected. It is good to note also that based on experience, most recolors of Bey parts are kinda nerfed compared to their original color released counterpart (though I know you can also dispute that recolored "x" part is much better than original "x" part).

I'll wait for other much more seasoned Bladers to share their inputs on Bahamut Chip's usability.
I never liked Bearing on Lord. It felt like something everyone else was doing, including friends I play with, so I wanted to avoid the monotony of seeing the same combination over and over. It also works exceptionally well. I usually do Lord Fafnir / Around / Xtend+, but specifically for the Bahamut chip I tested red Outer. Fafnir has never burst on me, not even from scraping in pockets. Longinus isn't cool enough to join my ranks.

I've owned every Bahamut chip so far and they all felt the same, including the ones my friends acquired with their purchases. What's interesting is that from my experiences of buying is that all the new recolors have been superior to the original releases, aside from any Revolve and Eternal I've received which have all been weak.

Quick Edit - I've never owned the Gold Turbo Bahamut chip, but I'm not even interested in it anymore after watching different Lord layers burst.
(Jan. 01, 2020  4:01 AM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: I never liked Bearing on Lord. It felt like something everyone else was doing, including friends I play with, so I wanted to avoid the monotony of seeing the same combination over and over. It also works exceptionally well. I usually do Lord Fafnir / Around / Xtend+, but specifically for the Bahamut chip I tested red Outer. Fafnir has never burst on me, not even from scraping in pockets. Longinus isn't cool enough to join my ranks.

I've owned every Bahamut chip so far and they all felt the same, including the ones my friends acquired with their purchases. What's interesting is that from my experiences of buying is that all the new recolors have been superior to the original releases, aside from any Revolve and Eternal I've received which have all been weak.

Quick Edit - I've never owned the Gold Turbo Bahamut chip, but I'm not even interested in it anymore after watching different Lord layers burst.

With how you've presented your side, I do understand especially on the part where certain combos have become too stagnant and common since everyone else has been using them.

With the introduction by Takara Tomy recently of that "5G" format, it actually influenced one of our local tournament organizers to finally put an end on the dual-spinning Beys and multiple Spriggan Beys in each player deck, so that I guess would also prompt me to test more than I used to and to go beyond what has been common (even though results do show it is good).

Again, maybe you're just using Bahamut with the not-so-synergistic/effective parts, since Defense (even Balance Chips) benefit most with being paired with Dash Drivers? I know you're not obligated to reveal your deck so I'm not gonna ask, but I really can't shake off the feeling that you just need to experiment with more parts and combos to discover what feels right with Bahamut in terms of Burst resistance.

Also, I'm no Hasbro hater, but calling Balkesh as the true "Bahamut" is like spitting on Takara Tomy's product-designing team. Sure, they don't make the best designs, but the Beyblade products being "Hasbro-ized" were originally designed by Takara Tomy, so in a way, I'd rather say Balkesh simply improved on what should have been Takara Tomy's standard.

To get back on track with the thread tho, I did use Wizard Bahamut.Zenith.Destroy' Retsu as a left-spin Judgment/Lord imitation, and while I cannot dispute that it is very lacking in terms of weight, overall power, LAD, etc, it seems to move quite decently even against several meta combos (heck, if they suddenly made Impact', I will test it with this immediately). Another is Wizard Bahamut.Zenith.Bearing Gen (which is quite bad honestly especially since it is soooo light; looks wonky yet aesthetically cool at the same time)

Luck does play a part on the battle, especially when your experimental combo wins suddenly against a tested and proven combo for no real reason.
I think Bahamut has a great design, the chips lacking performance just puts it a step below what Balkesh can do. Balkesh burst Apocalpyse last night in stunning form (Apocalypse / Blitz / Bearing).

I've tried every layer out aside from Wizard just because I've never owned one, and Bahamut never feels as if he gives me good results when I could just pair the layer with a Spriggan, Fafnir, or Diabolos chip for noticeably improved performance. It was Lord bursting that really pushed it over the edge for myself though. You can feel it when you lock a driver in, Bahamut's teeth doesn't give you the firm clicks of others.
Rouzuke Try to use the spoiler tag for the really long posts please! Smile
(Jan. 01, 2020  3:34 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: I was thinking that it would be called "Single" since there is already a "Dual" Layer System that proceeded it (so from what you're saying, there's no official term for that specific Layer System?). I would say that it is to be corrected into "the heaviest and balanced Forge Disk" probably to avoid such confusion. I feel Gravity is more of a placeholder for it, though I cannot deny it should have some attention as well (given some winning combos having it).

As I said, Plastic gen called their original 3-part beys "Basic", so I similarly applied it here to Burst in absence of any official terminology I've been able to found. Your mileage may vary, and I've since grown used to either.

Gravity itself is a placeholder for Heavy just as much as Heavy is a placeholder for Gravity. The two are the most powerful pre-Core disks released due to their heavy weight exceeding all but Quarter (which is weak in its imbalance), but have distinct differences from each other. Gravity boasts higher Stamina and OWD while Heavy is more stable and defensive and can increase your initial RPM some with its compact CWD.

They're very interchangeable with each other, but only because they're on such equal ground that either is a good choice on anything that can handle their weight. Gravity can add Stamina to a Defense combo just as easily as Heavy can help bolster the defenses of a Stamina combo. Gravity is just as top-tier as Heavy is, no doubt.
So many parts to list! Thank you all for contributing Smile!
I've added more parts to the list, but not all suggested parts yet. I'll add them tomorrow Smile!

I wanted to add to the Bahamut Chip convo, because I used it a lot in my favorite combo ZB.Bl.X'.Metsu and I've never seen it burst yet. Maybe it's simply not very good with the Lord base.
(Jan. 02, 2020  4:33 AM)Mikuri Wrote: So many parts to list! Thank you all for contributing Smile!
I've added more parts to the list, but not all suggested parts yet. I'll add them tomorrow Smile!

I wanted to add to the Bahamut Chip convo, because I used it a lot in my favorite combo ZB.Bl.X'.Metsu and I've never seen it burst yet. Maybe it's simply not very good with the Lord base.

Or a weird mold issue on his behalf. I've used Bahamut on Lord before to no ill effect.