[Takara Tomy]  Beyblade Burst Opposite spin tier list. Updated 5/11/19 8:47 A.M. Pacific Time

(Jan. 21, 2019  3:37 AM)Rouzuke Wrote:
(Jan. 19, 2019  7:09 PM)Phades115 Wrote: Is it just me or did this happen to someone else too..
Some weak layers with dash drivers are making an impact...

sR.0P.Ds'
Really holds its ground
Did this happen to someone else too..

I'm going to assume you meant Shelter Regulus on that "sR". 

I think the Dash/Prime Drivers are also intended to give more viability for previously released gum-toothed Layers even like gK or mG.

Exactly..for eg.the combo of storm spriggan and extreme' was surprising....
Legend spriggan with merge' was packing a pinch
(Jan. 21, 2019  10:38 AM)Phades115 Wrote:
(Jan. 21, 2019  3:37 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: I'm going to assume you meant Shelter Regulus on that "sR". 

I think the Dash/Prime Drivers are also intended to give more viability for previously released gum-toothed Layers even like gK or mG.

Exactly..for eg.the combo of storm spriggan and extreme' was surprising....
Legend spriggan with merge' was packing a pinch

Tbh, tho they may have better Burst Resistance than normal Drivers can give, it would still be moot if Chouzetsu Beys can easily shut them down via Over Finishes (and most probably Spin Finishes especially on free-spinning Drivers)
Can you add 0/7/10/00 Wall/Turn/Lift. Hold to A or S tier. It can win almost as much as Wall.Bearing.
(Feb. 04, 2019  2:07 AM)bladekid Wrote: Can you add 0/7/10/00 Wall/Turn/Lift. Hold to A or S tier. It can win almost as much as Wall.Bearing.
Yes. A while back when Wall came out, I was convinced it was a God xD, but despite it beating Turn/Lift Br, it's not able to beat C Xt+ (Attack) for some odd reason from Shindog's tests However, C Xt+ (Attack) cant beat Turn/Lift Br so Ive decided its best to put all of them as a group. Not to mention Wall's scraping issues in opposite/same spin. Thankyou for the suggestion though ;)
Where does these slot to?
1. C Xt+ (Stamina)
2. C At
3. C Ds/Ds'
(Feb. 04, 2019  6:20 AM)Biggster Wrote: Where does these slot to?
1. C Xt+ (Stamina)
2. C At
3. C Ds/Ds'
1. C Xt+ (Stamina) is about as good as C Xt+ (Attack)
2. C At is below everything in my list.
3. C Ds/Ds' should be worse or equal to F tier.
(Feb. 04, 2019  5:44 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Feb. 04, 2019  2:07 AM)bladekid Wrote: Can you add 0/7/10/00 Wall/Turn/Lift. Hold to A or S tier. It can win almost as much as Wall.Bearing.
Yes. A while back when Wall came out, I was convinced it was a God xD, but despite it beating Turn/Lift Br, it's not able to beat C Xt+ (Attack) for some odd reason from Shindog's tests However, C Xt+ (Attack) cant beat Turn/Lift Br so Ive decided its best to put all of them as a group. Not to mention Wall's scraping issues in opposite/same spin. Thankyou for the suggestion though Wink

Really? With Glaive.Bearing, I've beaten Cross.Xt+ in both attack and stamina mode. Also, I still thing Wall.Hold deserves to be on the tier list at least somewhere considering that is is again, almost as good as Wall.Bearing. Thanks.
(Feb. 04, 2019  3:02 PM)bladekid Wrote:
(Feb. 04, 2019  5:44 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: Yes. A while back when Wall came out, I was convinced it was a God xD, but despite it beating Turn/Lift Br, it's not able to beat C Xt+ (Attack) for some odd reason from Shindog's tests However, C Xt+ (Attack) cant beat Turn/Lift Br so Ive decided its best to put all of them as a group. Not to mention Wall's scraping issues in opposite/same spin. Thankyou for the suggestion though Wink

Really? With Glaive.Bearing, I've beaten Cross.Xt+ in both attack and stamina mode. Also, I still thing Wall.Hold deserves to be on the tier list at least somewhere considering that is is again, almost as good as Wall.Bearing. Thanks.
I am pretty sure if it was Sr 0G Br vs Sr 0C Xt (Attack or Stamina) it would go to 0C Xt+. However, your combo against Wombat aH 7C Xt+ wasnt the average hS Br combo...it was on B3. B3 is arguably the best left spin bey for opposite spin. Which goes to show that B3 is a viable layer in the current Cho-Z meta. Its so good to the point that despite me being a TT player, Im using B3 00T Br in one of my competitive decks. As for Wall H....it would be nice if you could get Wombat to test it. He is one of the best Hold users on the Wbo, and he probably wouldnt mine you asking him to test it since you guys already recommended combos to each other.
Where do these fit in?

1. According to the list, 00/0/7/10 Cross Xtend+ sits higher in the tier than Outer Xt+. I'm just wondering why most pP combos use the latter?
2. How does Outer Revolve compare to Outer Et?
3. How does Cross Hold compare with Proof Hold?
(Feb. 27, 2019  8:15 AM)Biggster Wrote: Where do these fit in?

1. According to the list, 00/0/7/10 Cross Xtend+ sits higher in the tier than Outer Xt+. I'm just wondering why most pP combos use the latter?
2. How does Outer Revolve compare to Outer Et?
3. How does Cross Hold compare with Proof Hold?
1. Bc Outer is overated or its bc pll are clueless, and havent tested Cross...Shindog would it be alright with you if could answer this question too?
2. Bc this is a opposite spin tier list, Im going off of opposite spin performance. Outer Et has the lad to eZ Outer Revolve np.
3. Im pretty sure Cross Hold and Proof Hold are pretty even, but if I were to make a guess to which is better, then it would be P Hold over C Hold. 

Ps. Im pretty sure Turn/Wall Hold are believed to be better then Proof/Cross Hold.
(Feb. 27, 2019  7:34 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Feb. 27, 2019  8:15 AM)Biggster Wrote: Where do these fit in?

1. According to the list, 00/0/7/10 Cross Xtend+ sits higher in the tier than Outer Xt+. I'm just wondering why most pP combos use the latter?
2. How does Outer Revolve compare to Outer Et?
3. How does Cross Hold compare with Proof Hold?
1. Bc Outer is overated or its bc pll are clueless, and havent tested Cross...@[Shindog] would it be alright with you if could answer this question too?
2. Bc this is a opposite spin tier list, Im going off of opposite spin performance. Outer Et has the lad to eZ Outer Revolve np.
3. Im pretty sure Cross Hold and Proof Hold are pretty even, but if I were to make a guess to which is better, then it would be P Hold over C Hold. 

Ps. Im pretty sure Turn/Wall Hold are believed to be better then Proof/Cross Hold.
The thing with Xtend+ is that there are multiple modes and the mods actually affect the height of the driver.  According to my tests, 7/0/10/oo cross Xtend+ (stamina) was better than Outer Xtend+ (stamina). However, I have also been told that 7/0/10/oo proof Xtend+ (attack) is very good, and proof is the right frame for Xtend+ (attack).  I have not tested this myself but I can see the logic behind it.  What I have been told is the Outer.Xt+ gives you a happy medium/least bad option for same spin, opposite spin in both attack and stamina modes.  I have not tested this so treat this as total rumor. I plan to tested it but just haven’t gotten around to it yet.

Edit:
Added some video to show how close Ω and 7C can be.  I give the edge to 7C but it is close.  It is easier to see the difference I think once I put pP.7C.Xt+ and pP.Ω.Χt+ against the same Sr.0W.Br in left spin.

Opposite spin: Sr.7C.Xt+ vs Sr.Ω.Χt+
7C       3 OS
Ω         2 OS
Draw    4
*this is more or less a tie actually.  I just did it to show how close it is
Video: https://youtu.be/Q7hlugu5LBI

13 rounds done: (LC)pP.7C.Xt+(Stamina) vs (Left)Sr.0W.Br 
pP.7C.   8 OS
Sr.BR.   2 OS
Draw.    3
Video: https://youtu.be/WBPG4yhWxDc

13 rounds done: (LC)pP.Ω.Xt+(stamina) vs (Left)Sr.0W.Br
pP.Ω.    5 OS
Sr.Br.    2 OS
Draw.    6
Video: https://youtu.be/wqjXsWcZhHs

This stuff is so close that part variation can probably tip the scale.
Sorry if someone asked this already, but what about Revolve and Atomic?
(Feb. 28, 2019  5:47 PM)Armor Wrote: Sorry if someone asked this already, but what about Revolve and Atomic?
Both Revolve and Atomic have worse lad then the "F" tier.
(Mar. 01, 2019  3:49 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Feb. 28, 2019  5:47 PM)Armor Wrote: Sorry if someone asked this already, but what about Revolve and Atomic?
Both Revolve and Atomic have worse lad then the "F" tier.
How can they be worse than Ultimate Reboot? Are you sure that even with certain disc and frame combos they can’t be better?
(Mar. 01, 2019  7:04 PM)Armor Wrote:
(Mar. 01, 2019  3:49 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: Both Revolve and Atomic have worse lad then the "F" tier.
How can they be worse than Ultimate Reboot? Are you sure that even with certain disc and frame combos they can’t be better?
Your just going to have to test Ul yourself. Its better then At and on par with 7/00/10 Et. I added Outer Revolve to the list bc ik its pretty close to top tier naked number with Et.

(Feb. 27, 2019  10:06 PM)Shindog Wrote:
(Feb. 27, 2019  7:34 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: 1. Bc Outer is overated or its bc pll are clueless, and havent tested Cross...@[Shindog] would it be alright with you if could answer this question too?
2. Bc this is a opposite spin tier list, Im going off of opposite spin performance. Outer Et has the lad to eZ Outer Revolve np.
3. Im pretty sure Cross Hold and Proof Hold are pretty even, but if I were to make a guess to which is better, then it would be P Hold over C Hold. 

Ps. Im pretty sure Turn/Wall Hold are believed to be better then Proof/Cross Hold.
The thing with Xtend+ is that there are multiple modes and the mods actually affect the height of the driver.  According to my tests, 7/0/10/oo cross Xtend+ (stamina) was better than Outer Xtend+ (stamina). However, I have also been told that 7/0/10/oo proof Xtend+ (attack) is very good, and proof is the right frame for Xtend+ (attack).  I have not tested this myself but I can see the logic behind it.  What I have been told is the Outer.Xt+ gives you a happy medium/least bad option for same spin, opposite spin in both attack and stamina modes.  I have not tested this so treat this as total rumor. I plan to tested it but just haven’t gotten around to it yet.

Edit:
Added some video to show how close Ω and 7C can be.  I give the edge to 7C but it is close.  It is easier to see the difference I think once I put pP.7C.Xt+ and pP.Ω.Χt+ against the same Sr.0W.Br in left spin.

Opposite spin: Sr.7C.Xt+ vs Sr.Ω.Χt+
7C       3 OS
Ω         2 OS
Draw    4
*this is more or less a tie actually.  I just did it to show how close it is
Video: https://youtu.be/Q7hlugu5LBI

13 rounds done: (LC)pP.7C.Xt+(Stamina) vs (Left)Sr.0W.Br 
pP.7C.   8 OS
Sr.BR.   2 OS
Draw.    3
Video: https://youtu.be/WBPG4yhWxDc

13 rounds done: (LC)pP.Ω.Xt+(stamina) vs (Left)Sr.0W.Br
pP.Ω.    5 OS
Sr.Br.    2 OS
Draw.    6
Video: https://youtu.be/wqjXsWcZhHs

This stuff is so close that part variation can probably tip the scale.
Hmm...Ill have to update my list then. Thanks for the clarification.
So the only way Revolve can best Atomic is with Outer. However, Outer with Atomic isn't as good, right?
(Mar. 02, 2019  4:04 AM)Biggster Wrote: So the only way Revolve can best Atomic is with Outer. However, Outer with Atomic isn't as good, right?
Yes. Because of Outer's shape, it hightens revolves lad by letting it spin on the free spinning plate longer bc of the shape. Stuff like 0 Proof would only decrease its lad potential bc it would scrape. Plz remember that everything I just said does not apply to Bearing. Atomic on the other hand isnt bad on Outer, but it doesnt unlock Outers full potential like 0 Proof would on Atomic.



Shindog If anything I said isnt true, It would be a great help if you could help explain. Sorry for tagging you in a situation like this again.
(Mar. 02, 2019  7:35 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Mar. 02, 2019  4:04 AM)Biggster Wrote: So the only way Revolve can best Atomic is with Outer. However, Outer with Atomic isn't as good, right?
Yes. Because of Outer's shape, it hightens revolves lad by letting it spin on the free spinning plate longer bc of the shape. Stuff like 0 Proof would only decrease its lad potential bc it would scrape. Plz remember that everything I just said does not apply to Bearing. Atomic on the other hand isnt bad on Outer, but it doesnt unlock Outers full potential like 0 Proof would on Atomic.



@[Shindog] If anything I said isnt true, It would be a great help if you could help explain. Sorry for tagging you in a situation like this again.
I don’t think anything Infinite.Zero said is untrue. Parts have variations and ppl can have different results of course.  And atomic is a part has been released several times with a great amount of variation.  I think one way to see the effect of what 0 Proof does for Atomic is to go back to what polish did for dF.P.At in opposite spin match ups.
(Mar. 02, 2019  8:22 AM)Shindog Wrote:
(Mar. 02, 2019  7:35 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: Yes. Because of Outer's shape, it hightens revolves lad by letting it spin on the free spinning plate longer bc of the shape. Stuff like 0 Proof would only decrease its lad potential bc it would scrape. Plz remember that everything I just said does not apply to Bearing. Atomic on the other hand isnt bad on Outer, but it doesnt unlock Outers full potential like 0 Proof would on Atomic.



@[Shindog] If anything I said isnt true, It would be a great help if you could help explain. Sorry for tagging you in a situation like this again.
I don’t think anything Infinite.Zero said is untrue. Parts have variations and ppl can have different results of course.  And atomic is a part has been released several times with a great amount of variation.  I think one way to see the effect of what 0 Proof does for Atomic is to go back to what polish did for dF.P.At in opposite spin match ups.
Wait...so Outer might be even better for Atomic in opposite spin then 0 Proof. o is it like Polish and Outer both having a smaller circumfrence that helps allow At to maximize its time on the free spinning ring?
(Mar. 02, 2019  9:00 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Mar. 02, 2019  8:22 AM)Shindog Wrote: I don’t think anything Infinite.Zero said is untrue. Parts have variations and ppl can have different results of course.  And atomic is a part has been released several times with a great amount of variation.  I think one way to see the effect of what 0 Proof does for Atomic is to go back to what polish did for dF.P.At in opposite spin match ups.
Wait...so Outer might be even better for Atomic in opposite spin then 0 Proof. o is it like Polish and Outer both having a smaller circumfrence that helps allow At to maximize its time on the free spinning ring?

In my opinion 0.proof is better for At in opposite spin match ups than Outer.  I think I have epxressed myself poorly, sorry for the confusion.
(Mar. 02, 2019  9:35 AM)Shindog Wrote:
(Mar. 02, 2019  9:00 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: Wait...so Outer might be even better for Atomic in opposite spin then 0 Proof. o is it like Polish and Outer both having a smaller circumfrence that helps allow At to maximize its time on the free spinning ring?

In my opinion 0.proof is better for At in opposite spin match ups than Outer.  I think I have epxressed myself poorly, sorry for the confusion.
Ok. So Im guessing that At is better with a heavier setup then a Outer or 00 by it self.
(Mar. 02, 2019  6:38 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Mar. 02, 2019  9:35 AM)Shindog Wrote: In my opinion 0.proof is better for At in opposite spin match ups than Outer.  I think I have epxressed myself poorly, sorry for the confusion.
Ok. So Im guessing that At is better with a heavier setup then a Outer or 00 by it self.
I think primarily proof and polish have the right architecture to help with LAD with At.
It's interesting that Polish only adds 0.25 tier to Cross Atomic while Outer makes Revolve 1 full tier higher than Cross Atomic or 0.75 tier higher than Proof Atomic (which is 0.25 tier higher than Cross Atomic). Is my math correct? 😜

If yes, can it be established that either Proof or Polish adds 0.25 tier to either Cross Atomic or Cross Destroy?
Thanks alot for making this Infinite.Zero. Although don't you think this can be incorporated into main tier list rather than making a seperate thread?

I have some comments and suggestions on this.

(Nov. 24, 2018  9:19 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: S Tier: (00/0/7/ 10 Wall/Turn/Lift Bearing) (00/0/7/10/Outer Cross Xtend+)

My BeyLife is complete now. Adarsh Abhinav can understand why XD

You guys can give a try to Star frame on Xt+ combo as well and see if it can be added here. from my testing it had same if not higher LAD than Cross. I can't say for same spin stamina though.

Quote:A Tier: (00/0/7/10 Proof Xtend+ (Attack)
I would suggest using Bump instead or keeping it as a option. When Xt+ is in attack mode. It relies more on precession rather than LAD. Proof makes it fall over faster and that LAD doesn't help as much as it hurts.

Quote:B Tier: (00/0/7/10 Proof Bearing) (Outer Bearing)
Perfect..

Quote:C Tier: (00/0/7/10 Bump/Cross/Glaive Bearing) 
[/Quote]
Again. You can add Star here.

D Tier: (Outer Eternal) (00/0/7/10 Xtend+) (00/0/7/10 Proof Destroy/Destroy') (00/0/7/10 Wall/Turn/Lift Hold?)

[/quote]
Star and Cross can be here too. I believe Outer Eternal can be bit higher than this tbh

Quote:F Tier: (00/0/7/10 Eternal) (00/0/7/10 Proof Ultimate Reboot)
(Outer Revolve) 
What about 0B/P Atomic/Octa? I'm pretty sure it would be higher than Ul and Outer Revolve.

Outer Yielding also places bit higher than Outer Revolve from my experience. Although don't add it in same class as At based combos.
[/quote]
(Mar. 03, 2019  2:18 AM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Thanks alot for making this Infinite.Zero. Although don't you think this can be incorporated into main tier list rather than making a seperate thread?

I have some comments and suggestions on this.

(Nov. 24, 2018  9:19 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: S Tier: (00/0/7/ 10 Wall/Turn/Lift Bearing) (00/0/7/10/Outer Cross Xtend+)

My BeyLife is complete now. Adarsh Abhinav can understand why XD

You guys can give a try to Star frame on Xt+ combo as well and see if it can be added here. from my testing it had same if not higher LAD than Cross. I can't say for same spin stamina though.

Quote:A Tier: (00/0/7/10 Proof Xtend+ (Attack)
I would suggest using Bump instead or keeping it as a option. When Xt+ is in attack mode. It relies more on precession rather than LAD. Proof makes it fall over faster and that LAD doesn't help as much as it hurts.

Quote:B Tier: (00/0/7/10 Proof Bearing) (Outer Bearing)
Perfect..

Quote:C Tier: (00/0/7/10 Bump/Cross/Glaive Bearing) 
[/Quote]
Again. You can add Star here.

D Tier: (Outer Eternal) (00/0/7/10 Xtend+) (00/0/7/10 Proof Destroy/Destroy') (00/0/7/10 Wall/Turn/Lift Hold?)
Star and Cross can be here too. I believe Outer Eternal can be bit higher than this tbh

Quote:F Tier: (00/0/7/10 Eternal) (00/0/7/10 Proof Ultimate Reboot)
(Outer Revolve) 
What about 0B/P Atomic/Octa? I'm pretty sure it would be higher than Ul and Outer Revolve.

Outer Yielding also places bit higher than Outer Revolve from my experience. Although don't add it in same class as At based combos.
[/quote]
This...is alot for me to take in right now lol. Finally my thread gets the recognition it never deserved. 


So...How should I begin :P
Thankyou for liking my post, I really appreciate your comments on how I should make this list better. I shall try my best to return your questions.

God Tier questions/suggestions from Fire Fire:
My answer: 
I will go ahead and add Star to Xt+ in the God tier, but I would have to include Glaive if thats ok with Shindog. What Ive learned from the high lad setups is the inconsisnt result it produces. Originally, I had planned to only allow Wall Br in it, but it seemed like such a waste to the tier that I decided it would be best if I included L/T Br and C Xt+. Later I added Outer Xt+ after some eerily close tests when put up against against C Xt+. Well enough said, I will add Star and Glaive if Shindog complies with it. Nvm since I pretty much gave this treatment to Br in the C tier, I will answer your wish for this tier.


A Tier questions/suggestions from Fire Fire:
My answer: 
Idk if Bump is better then Proof for Xt+ imo? I will have to check with Shindog if its viable when compared to Proof if thats ok with you.


B Tier questions/suggestions from Fire Fire:
My answer:
Thanks for the comment.


C Tier questions/suggestions from Fire Fire:
My answer:
Understood.


D Tier questions/suggestions from Fire Fire:
My answer:
I wont be adding Star or Cross to Ds. Instead Ill just be adding Expand to it. 


Outer Et cant compete with Bump/Proof/Cross/Star Br so I will not be promoting it to the next tier or giving it a salary raise lol.


F Tier questions/suggestions from Fire Fire:
My Answer:
At and Octa would be in the the next tier down if I made one. Ill consider making it, but def not right now. I still have to edit my first post xD after all this. I do not think they have the opposite spin stamina to compete with 0/00/7/10 Et, 0/0/7/10 Proof Ul, and Outer Revolve. Sry about that.


Interesting that Outer Yielding can beat Outer Revolve...kinda have to ask Shindog to test it.


Thx for putting your time into this list.


Tagging Shindog bc I aint tagging him 3x in one post. It wont turn out well lol. 



To Shindog: Would it be ok with you if you could be my beyblade grammerly, and answer some of Fire Fire's questions I answered wrong. Im sry for asking you to do this again, but I dont want to make mistake without knowing it.


Tagging FIREFIRE CPB bc i cant fix the quoting engine.