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[Takara Tomy]  Atomic, Bearing or Xtend+ on HS

Dec. 21, 2019  7:15 AM
 
Hey everyone, a little curious on what combo to put on my salamander

I know that there is already a thread talking about customising salamander but idk which driver to use still

My current combo is HS 0P At/Xt+/Br

Please help me decide
Dec. 21, 2019  7:48 AM
 
Both drivers work well on Salamander. I find myself alternating between Atomic and Xtend+. Xtend+ definitely enables better spin stealing after entering LAD, however Atomic gives you slightly more verstality by giving Salamander a better matchup in same spin battles. At the end of the day I usually use Atomic.
Dec. 26, 2019  3:02 PM
 
in singapore G4 tournaments (singles format), most of the players use hS.00C/Outer.Xt+ , rarely using Atomic as it has very bad LAD when compared to other stamina drivers. so hS on Atomic has an almost 100% chance of losing when it faces opposite spin beys.
Dec. 26, 2019  10:02 PM
 
Without a doubt that's incorrect. Salamander on Atomic has carried me through a lot of tournament play. The only three right spinning beys it struggles against are Perfect Phoenix, Archer Hercules, and Judgment.
Dec. 26, 2019  10:10 PM
 
(Dec. 26, 2019  10:02 PM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: Without a doubt that's incorrect. Salamander on Atomic has carried me through a lot of tournament play. The only three right spinning beys it struggles against are Perfect Phoenix, Archer Hercules, and Judgment.
Incorrect. Atomic has 0 uses in the metagame we live in. It's Lad is just awful.
Dec. 26, 2019  10:17 PM
 
You should play with it more. You'd be surprised at how often it wins when used with spin stealing capabilities. Like I said, Salamander on Atomic only has three noticeable bad matchups in right spin. It will defeat everything else.
Dec. 26, 2019  10:19 PM
 
(Dec. 26, 2019  10:10 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Dec. 26, 2019  10:02 PM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: Without a doubt that's incorrect. Salamander on Atomic has carried me through a lot of tournament play. The only three right spinning beys it struggles against are Perfect Phoenix, Archer Hercules, and Judgment.
Incorrect. Atomic has 0 uses in the metagame we live in. It's Lad is just awful.

People on this website have tested it. They know what they are talking about. We don’t just make assumptions about parts. We test them. Atomic has good LAD, but of course not as good as Xtend+. That thing has the best lad of any driver.
Dec. 26, 2019  11:20 PM
 
(Dec. 26, 2019  10:19 PM)BuilderROB Wrote:
(Dec. 26, 2019  10:10 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: Incorrect. Atomic has 0 uses in the metagame we live in. It's Lad is just awful.

People on this website have tested it. They know what they are talking about. We don’t just make assumptions about parts. We test them. Atomic has good LAD, but of course not as good as Xtend+. That thing has the best lad of any driver.
Atomic being in outclassed in Ko resistance and burst resistance says enough for me; you can test all you want but results don't lie.
Dec. 27, 2019  8:17 AM
 
Thank you all for the suggestions sorry for the update
Dec. 30, 2019  11:23 AM
 
(Dec. 21, 2019  7:15 AM)BeyGekk Wrote: Hey everyone, a little curious on what combo to put on my salamander

I know that there is already a thread talking about customising salamander but idk which driver to use still

My current combo is HS 0P At/Xt+/Br

Please help me decide

try it with Yard
Dec. 31, 2019  1:40 AM
 
(Dec. 30, 2019  11:23 AM)Ruddy Wrote:
(Dec. 21, 2019  7:15 AM)BeyGekk Wrote: Hey everyone, a little curious on what combo to put on my salamander

I know that there is already a thread talking about customising salamander but idk which driver to use still

My current combo is HS 0P At/Xt+/Br

Please help me decide

try it with Yard

Ehh no. Yr is worse than the given choices. 

To BeyGekk, any of the three Drivers you already mentioned have good synergy with your current hS.0P combo. Just keep in mind that all of them have moderately weak KO resistance (especially XT+ and Br), but still depends on what you intend to use hS for and against what kind of combo.

To provide some input:

Xt+ - Pros: versatile use, have 3 modes (only Stamina mode is the most useful), and have amazing LAD synergy with Proof; Cons: easily KO'd even in Defense mode

Br - Pros: best for countering opposite spin alone since hS doesn't have that great set of teeth more recent GT releases have and of course still good LAD and precession synergy with Proof (might recommend to use Bump or Wall instead for the stability if using Core Disks, otherwise you can try Vanguard or Ratchet); Cons: same as Xt+ regarding KO resistance with high Burst risk due to weak spring

At - Pros: semi-versatile usage (just be careful not to overshoot else you're looking at seeing yourself out of the stadium even before doing anything; sliding shoot is best to mitigate self-KO), though I may suggest to swap for Bump or Glaive for more LAD since Proof makes your combo scrape earlier than other Frames; Cons: while it has more Burst resistance than Br, it still is easily KO'd by heavier same-spin matchups (or by Judgment/Lord combos)

Edit: I currently run (LC) hS (Defense mode/10 blades).Hr.Ds' as a balanced tornado stalling attacker with spin-equalization and destabilization as the secondary functions
Dec. 31, 2019  2:21 AM
 
(Dec. 26, 2019  10:10 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Dec. 26, 2019  10:02 PM)Mr. Palazzo Wrote: Without a doubt that's incorrect. Salamander on Atomic has carried me through a lot of tournament play. The only three right spinning beys it struggles against are Perfect Phoenix, Archer Hercules, and Judgment.
Incorrect. Atomic has 0 uses in the metagame we live in. It's Lad is just awful.

I went all the way to the semifinals in a recent tournament with only an Atomic combo. It has really good versatility and it's really a good driver to just use.
Dec. 31, 2019  2:35 AM
 
hS.7C.Xt+

hS.00P.Ds'
Dec. 31, 2019  4:15 AM
 
(Dec. 31, 2019  2:21 AM)BloodyPhoenix Wrote:
(Dec. 26, 2019  10:10 PM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: Incorrect. Atomic has 0 uses in the metagame we live in. Its Lad is just awful.

I went all the way to the semifinals in a recent tournament with only an Atomic combo. It has really good versatility and it's really a good driver to just use.
Great job! Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to reach that kind of success in my area Unhappy
Dec. 31, 2019  4:21 AM
 
(Dec. 31, 2019  4:15 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Dec. 31, 2019  2:21 AM)BloodyPhoenix Wrote: I went all the way to the semifinals in a recent tournament with only an Atomic combo. It has really good versatility and it's really a good driver to just use.
Great job! Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to reach that kind of success in my area Unhappy

Okay, stop. All three of your posts in this thread are basically "Atomic is bad" and the last one went so far as to imply "Well if Atomic works in your area then you must be playing on easy mode." That's getting rude.

We get it, you don't think highly of Atomic. That said, you can believe what you want, but Atomic is a fairly solid stamina and defense driver that works very well on same spin matchups and can even do smash attack launches. It's not dash driver strength, but it's a decent tier 2 part at this point.

hS can benefit from all of these drivers, although I wouldn't recommend Bearing on it because it tends to lose clicks even in opposite spin against recoil-heavy opponents.
Dec. 31, 2019  4:24 AM
 
(Dec. 31, 2019  1:40 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: Ehh no. Yr is worse than the given choices. 

To BeyGekk, any of the three Drivers you already mentioned have good synergy with your current hS.0P combo. Just keep in mind that all of them have moderately weak KO resistance (especially XT+ and Br), but still depends on what you intend to use hS for and against what kind of combo.

To provide some input:

Xt+ - Pros: versatile use, have 3 modes (only Stamina mode is the most useful), and have amazing LAD synergy with Proof; Cons: easily KO'd even in Defense mode

Br - Pros: best for countering opposite spin alone since hS doesn't have that great set of teeth more recent GT releases have and of course still good LAD and precession synergy with Proof (might recommend to use Bump or Wall instead for the stability if using Core Disks, otherwise you can try Vanguard or Ratchet); Cons: same as Xt+ regarding KO resistance with high Burst risk due to weak spring

At - Pros: semi-versatile usage (just be careful not to overshoot else you're looking at seeing yourself out of the stadium even before doing anything; sliding shoot is best to mitigate self-KO), though I may suggest to swap for Bump or Glaive for more LAD since Proof makes your combo scrape earlier than other Frames; Cons: while it has more Burst resistance than Br, it still is easily KO'd by heavier same-spin matchups (or by Judgment/Lord combos)

Edit: I currently run (LC) hS (Defense mode/10 blades).Hr.Ds' as a balanced tornado stalling attacker with spin-equalization and destabilization as the secondary functions

eh? Xt+ has better KO resistance than Atomic in my experiences..
Dec. 31, 2019  4:39 AM
 
(Dec. 31, 2019  4:24 AM)@ya.dama Wrote:
(Dec. 31, 2019  1:40 AM)Rouzuke Wrote: Ehh no. Yr is worse than the given choices. 

To BeyGekk, any of the three Drivers you already mentioned have good synergy with your current hS.0P combo. Just keep in mind that all of them have moderately weak KO resistance (especially XT+ and Br), but still depends on what you intend to use hS for and against what kind of combo.

To provide some input:

Xt+ - Pros: versatile use, have 3 modes (only Stamina mode is the most useful), and have amazing LAD synergy with Proof; Cons: easily KO'd even in Defense mode

Br - Pros: best for countering opposite spin alone since hS doesn't have that great set of teeth more recent GT releases have and of course still good LAD and precession synergy with Proof (might recommend to use Bump or Wall instead for the stability if using Core Disks, otherwise you can try Vanguard or Ratchet); Cons: same as Xt+ regarding KO resistance with high Burst risk due to weak spring

At - Pros: semi-versatile usage (just be careful not to overshoot else you're looking at seeing yourself out of the stadium even before doing anything; sliding shoot is best to mitigate self-KO), though I may suggest to swap for Bump or Glaive for more LAD since Proof makes your combo scrape earlier than other Frames; Cons: while it has more Burst resistance than Br, it still is easily KO'd by heavier same-spin matchups (or by Judgment/Lord combos)

Edit: I currently run (LC) hS (Defense mode/10 blades).Hr.Ds' as a balanced tornado stalling attacker with spin-equalization and destabilization as the secondary functions

eh? Xt+ has better KO resistance than Atomic in my experiences..

Were you using the Stamina or Defense mode for Xt+? Stamina mode makes it much more susceptible to KO's especially on lighter combos, whereas Defense mode (while making it go berserk like Absorb does) should ideally let your combo stay in the stadium better than Stamina mode.

From my experiences, most of my Atomic copies (from RBVs, separate releases, etc) have very free-spinning parts and tend to keep to the stadium as long as it is used with heavy parts (like pP and 00/Sting) and is launched with a sliding shoot. 

Just for an example, I use pP.Outer.Xt+ and pP.00P.At - I haven't had them launched simultaneously (with ideally same amount of pulling force) for me to see how long they would spin, BUT, I tried using JA.0E.Qc' on both (Xt+ tried with Stamina and Defense mode, respectively) Drivers and it can easily KO pP on Xt+ Stamina more than Defense, but also has a harder time destabilizing the one on At.

I'm not sure about the physics aspect of the parts, but for some reason Outer has amazing LAD synergy with Xt+ compared to At. I did try both Drivers on pP.00P, but my tests still show that At can beat Xt+ in terms of KO resistance. 


Still, there are other factors in play when choosing from the said Drivers for hS as stated in the topic, so it really depends with OP on what he/she wants the combo to do.
Dec. 31, 2019  6:55 AM
 
(Dec. 31, 2019  4:21 AM)DeceasedCrab Wrote:
(Dec. 31, 2019  4:15 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: Great job! Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to reach that kind of success in my area Unhappy

Okay, stop. All three of your posts in this thread are basically "Atomic is bad" and the last one went so far as to imply "Well if Atomic works in your area then you must be playing on easy mode." That's getting rude.

We get it, you don't think highly of Atomic. That said, you can believe what you want, but Atomic is a fairly solid stamina and defense driver that works very well on same spin matchups and can even do smash attack launches. It's not dash driver strength, but it's a decent tier 2 part at this point.

hS can benefit from all of these drivers, although I wouldn't recommend Bearing on it because it tends to lose clicks even in opposite spin against recoil-heavy opponents.
If you're going to stop me from stating my personal opinion on a driver, then you've ignored the whole point of the thread's title. It's a place for bladers to freely discuss their opinions on which drivers (At, Br, Xt+) they feel are most compelling on hS. Because of the nature of the thread's direction, I feel that it is essential for others to prove and disapprove of people's posts. This is the only way to move the thread in a productive manner where everyone can learn from each other's personal experiences and build upon them.

With that said, I'd like to personally apologize to you and everyone (specifically Mr. Palazzo BuilderROB BloodyPhoenix) who've been offended because of my posts (I did not think through my words and how it would affect others). It was very immature of me to behave in a compulsive manner on a website that depends on Moderators to enforce healthy rules. Apologies.
Dec. 31, 2019  2:46 PM
 
(Dec. 21, 2019  7:15 AM)BeyGekk Wrote: Hey everyone, a little curious on what combo to put on my salamander

I know that there is already a thread talking about customising salamander but idk which driver to use still

My current combo is HS 0P At/Xt+/Br

Please help me decide

Personally on this setup 0P has better synergy with At than Xt+. Xt+ is downgraded in LAD on Proof while At is upgaded. Proof hangs lower than most frames and that works relitivley well on At. Xt+ needs high profile disks and frames to work properly (Ex:0C and Outer) The way HS is outclassed in the meta shows that At is probably the better choice for it right now as it has excellent same spin stamina. It is burst relitivley easily anyway so Br is not the right way to go. Both Xt+ and At are usable, they just have strengths and weakness' different from each other. If you want a relitivley safe combo, go for Xt+, if you want decent opposite and excellent same spin stamina to directly counter left spin LAD, go for At. It's your choice really Grin
Dec. 31, 2019  5:35 PM
 
It would probably be atomic as it out spins all drivers in same spin.
Dec. 31, 2019  6:03 PM
 
For same spin stamina, I'd choose atomic. But if orbit was a choice, then I'd pick orbit instead.

Atomic pros:
very good same spin stamina
Atomic cons:
weak spring
bad ko resistance

Orbit pros:
very good same spin stamina
better spring
Orbit cons:
worse lad

------------------

If you like more LAD and would like to sacrifice burst resistance then you can pick At

------------------

With your parts I would pick Xt+

Why?:

Good same spin stamina (not as good as At or O tho)

Very good opposite stamina (as good as bearing or better)

Not bad spring (better then At)(worse then O)
Dec. 31, 2019  11:07 PM
 
Sorry for the oof's but in my opinion it would be bearing. It outspins everything in opposite spin.
Jan. 04, 2020  5:47 PM
 
(Dec. 31, 2019  11:07 PM)YishYash Wrote: Sorry for the oof's but in my opinion it would be bearing. It outspins everything in opposite spin.

If those parts he mentioned are the only parts he has. I think bearing will be to easy to burst. Especially with Judgement and Quick'
Jan. 04, 2020  10:45 PM
 
(Jan. 04, 2020  5:47 PM)7sukuyomi Wrote:
(Dec. 31, 2019  11:07 PM)YishYash Wrote: Sorry for the oof's but in my opinion it would be bearing. It outspins everything in opposite spin.

If those parts he mentioned are the only parts he has. I think bearing will be to easy to burst. Especially with Judgement and Quick'

I never took that into consideration. But it would be best for him to put Bearing (If he has other parts which will add burst resistance), Xt+, Destroy, Eternal, Octa, Or Absorb. The order is from best to worst.
Jan. 05, 2020  3:55 AM
 
For hS, PERSONALLY I find Bearing to be the most consistent.
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