Standard Meta Analysis

Poll: What is your go to combo?

Wyvang Attack
8.57%
3
Balro Attack
5.71%
2
Flash Attack
5.71%
2
Duo Defense
0%
0
Dragoon Defense
2.86%
1
Genbull Defense
0%
0
Revizer/Killerken Defense
2.86%
1
Phantom Stamina
5.71%
2
Genbull Stamina
0%
0
Duo Stamina
14.29%
5
Dragooon (Spin-Stealing) Stamina
14.29%
5
F230
2.86%
1
Diablo Anti-Attack
2.86%
1
Wyvang Balance
5.71%
2
Balro Balance
5.71%
2
Phantom Staller
5.71%
2
Duo Balance
0%
0
Low-Track Dragooon CF/GCF
0%
0
Dragooon Balance
8.57%
3
Girago Anti-Attack
5.71%
2
Genbull Balance
2.86%
1
Total: 100% 35 vote(s)
Due to the relatively low quantity of results recently shared about standard combos, what better way to analyze data than to collect it all in one thread.

If you have not participated in a tournament, it would be preferable if you did not vote as this thread aims to gather data on the actual tournament meta.

The question, What is your go to wheel-type combo? helps us gather data similar to that of the winning combinations that my meta analysis of the limited format used (http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-A-Meta-Analysis).

A more detailed explanation of what the question is asking: Completely objective, no other variables considered outside of personal preference and confidence in tournament ability, what combo category would you choose?

Well, since there isn't any data yet, I guess that's about all their is to say.
So this thread is like a poll...?

Edit: You put up the poll, okay.

Edit 2: I think Genbull Balance is a pretty important one you left out.
I predict Dragooon (Spin-Stealing) Stamina is going to win by a landslide. It's the reason Limited is my favorite format over Standard now.
It looks like Duo Stamina is for more people. I honestly think that's because people are too scared to go to attack, but it's strange that Dragooon isn't winning.
No Dragooon attack for the poll? ;(

Just kidding, Dragooon balance is probably my main go-to for a situation I'm not sure of. It's safe usually.

EDIT: and when I say Dragooon balance I mean like spin equalizers and anti-attack/attacky stuff.
Dragooon attack is really just a mod on Wyvang attack
Duo stamina is pretty much the best low-risk high-reward combo so I'm guessing most people would go with that haha
There's no Begirados Attack on there doe

Or Phantom Defense/Anti-Attack lol

Or Dragooon Staller/Attack/Spin-steal...

Or Genbull Killerken Stamina/Defense...

Or Ifraid Attack...


Conclusion: My Beyblade preferences are thoroughly and completely insane.
(Jun. 07, 2014  11:45 PM)Cake Wrote: There's no Begirados Attack on there doe

Or Phantom Defense/Anti-Attack lol

Or Dragooon Staller/Attack/Spin-steal...

Or Genbull Killerken Stamina/Defense...

Or Ifraid Attack...


Conclusion: My Beyblade preferences are thoroughly and completely insane.
There is Dragooon Spinsteal up there, but most of your other priorities are completely outclassed.
(Jun. 08, 2014  12:55 AM)RagerBlade Wrote:
(Jun. 07, 2014  11:45 PM)Cake Wrote: There's no Begirados Attack on there doe

Or Phantom Defense/Anti-Attack lol

Or Dragooon Staller/Attack/Spin-steal...

Or Genbull Killerken Stamina/Defense...

Or Ifraid Attack...


Conclusion: My Beyblade preferences are thoroughly and completely insane.
There is Dragooon Spinsteal up there, but most of your other priorities are completely outclassed.

"completely outclassed"?

The great thing about those combos (in order: Balro Begirados 100RF, Phantom (Attack) Cygnus 85RB, Wyvang Dragooon SA165 (Attack) MF, Killerken Genbull BD145 RDF/WD, and Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF (listed only Ifraid to make the joke work, sorry Tongue_out) ) is that people see the combo (in particular Ifraid and Phantom) and think "lol this guy is so dumb he's using a terrible combo lolololol".

Then they get completely trashed by a screwball combo they have never seen before.

Every one of those customs seems to work far better for me than it does for anyone else (idk why) and I have used them repeatedly and effectively against a wide range of opponents. With the exception of Wyvang Ifraid, all of those combos are balance-y - Begirados has unusually high Stamina due to its pairing with Balro (which also allows it to handle E230/BD145 customs) and an absurd amount of Upper Smash which allows it to throw combos out of the staduim, eliminating the friciton rubber tips provide since the tips are no longer in contact with the Staduim. Phantom uses a similar technique to stop Attack types and even KO them - they hit the aggressive top of Phantom and either self-KO or just skip off and don't KO it. Wyvang Dragooon can OS RDF Dragooon (it slowly circles in then same-spin grinds it to death), KO EWD Dragooon sometimes, and get rid of pesky B : D Stamina, and Stamina in general, while still spin-stealing and beating anything not on a D-series tip. Killerken Genbull has unusually high Stamina, almost as high as Genbull^2, but has the advantage of being slightly Anti-Attack-y and is able to KO things occasionally. Finally, Ifraid exposes Wyvang's "head" incredibly well, which gives it an unholy amount of Smash. It also actually helps Stamina somewhat, because Wyvang doesn't waste Stamina on weaker hits repeatedly, but hits all at once on one insanely strong hit. This means that the opponent won't take hits and barely stay in the stadium, which wears out the Attacker it is facing; what will happen is that Wyvang will poke it a few times and do basically nothing, and then suddenly hit the one attack point and pretty much guarantee a KO. It won't wear itself out on near-KOs or weak hits; it just waits until it lands a perfect shot and puts all its power behind that.

Don't underestimate unusual combos. Just because it isn't on the top-tier list doesn't mean a combo isn't good. From my experience, top-tier combos get used far less often than strange ones, and in a tournament setting a jack-of-all-trades combo puts the pressure on your opponent - if they know you have such a combo, they can't safely pick any one combo because they know they can only get ~50% against it using one specific type. That's not a comfortable margin to win by; it leaves the outcome of the match up to skill and chance, which you don't really want to have to rely on. And, that way, even if I make a bad pick, my balance combo may throw my opponent off enough due to its oddball nature and wide range of effectiveness that I may pull out a win where, by all logic, I should not have.



On another note, my posts seem to be getting longer and longer lol
Kinda wish you could vote multiple choices... Oh well, I do best with Phantom Stallers anyway.
Cake Wrote:Insert long post here.

Well, honestly, some of the combinstions you listed are good, but outclassed.

Phantom 85 RB is outclassed by most Synchrom Defense/Anti-Attack
WD would scrape pretty badly on BD145 (since its not Boost Mode)

Some of the other listed things I have yet to see tested.
(Jun. 08, 2014  2:25 AM)Leone19 Wrote:
Cake Wrote:Insert long post here.

Well, honestly, some of the combinstions you listed are good, but outclassed.

Phantom 85 RB is outclassed by most Synchrom Defense/Anti-Attack
WD would scrape pretty badly on BD145 (since its not Boost Mode)

Some of the other listed things I have yet to see tested.
Well honestly my post was pretty bad there. I should have elaborated more, but Leone19 just took the word out of my mouth.
Phantom 85RB gets results against Wyvang which are roughly on par with Duo Defense and E230 Synchrom Defense, both of which give Wyvang a hard time. The Wyvang Ifraid combo has some testing that I did over in the Ifraid discussion if you want to see it. And there's still that thing you can do where you push up the BD145 disk to keep WD from scraping, too (though for the most part I use RDF anyways so it's less of an issue).
(Jun. 08, 2014  2:34 AM)Cake Wrote: Phantom 85RB gets results against Wyvang which are roughly on par with Duo Defense and E230 Synchrom Defense, both of which give Wyvang a hard time. The Wyvang Ifraid combo has some testing that I did over in the Ifraid discussion if you want to see it. And there's still that thing you can do where you push up the BD145 disk to keep WD from scraping, too (though for the most part I use RDF anyways so it's less of an issue).

That's actually pretty cool, but just saying in general, it's (Phantom combo) outclassed. Tongue_out (that was not sarcasm, please don't take it as such)

Either way, the scraping would pose some issues, even if it's pushed up on a Synchrom, I've tried this before on other combintions.

I never said Wyvang Ifriad was bad; those tests were fairly impressive, I was simply stating, while it's good, it's technically "outclassed".

To some of the other combintions, I haven't seen any testing results (like Dragoon MF), so you honestly cannot blame one for seeing the idea on paper, thinking of how it works against other tops, and assuming it's outclassed. That's why testing is key in this game, haha.
(Jun. 08, 2014  2:34 AM)Cake Wrote: Phantom 85RB gets results against Wyvang which are roughly on par with Duo Defense and E230 Synchrom Defense, both of which give Wyvang a hard time. The Wyvang Ifraid combo has some testing that I did over in the Ifraid discussion if you want to see it. And there's still that thing you can do where you push up the BD145 disk to keep WD from scraping, too (though for the most part I use RDF anyways so it's less of an issue).
Are you sure that Phantom 85RB can hold it's ground as well as E230 Defense? Based on tests E230 is by far the best Defense. Phantom may add stamina, making it better overall, but if you want the better defensive bey go with E230. If BD145WD is used against Attack at all it will completely scrape. RDF is a better option 100% of the time. I would like to look at the Wyvang Ifraid, but Wyvang Wyvang is the better bey in KOing, most likely. I'll still take a look at the tests.
Phantom 85RB gets about 60-70% against Wyvang, depending on whether or not it makes contact higher up or not; if Wyvang is hitting Phantom from the side, Phantom may be in trouble. But if it hits it from the top (which is pretty much always due to the low height), Phantom's fine. Phantom actually has a tendency to KO its attacker rather than be KOed itself. Phantom is even more effective against Balro and Begirados as the lower wheel, because Balro and Begirados have more Upper Attack than Wyvang, which just translates into massive recoil against Phantom, when they are on the bottom.

GAH this is so poorly written and rambling Tongue_out ^^^^

The Phantom combo (and Begirados, too) is based off of something that I learned while testing Jade for Force Smash; when a Beyblade is Force Smashing another Beyblade, or is being Upper Attacked by a lower opponent, the taller Beyblade will always "jump" more than the lower Beyblade is pushed down. Unless the lower Beyblade weighs pretty much nothing, it will have enough stability due to its rotation that it will strongly resist tilting. And, since it's being pushed down into the ground, it can't move vertically either. On the other hand, the taller Beyblade still has rotational resistance, but it is being hit up instead of down into the ground. Since it does not resist vertical motion, it is thrown up in to the air much more than its opponent is destabilized. At this point, when they opponent is in the air, basic logic comes into play: If your opponent isn't touching the ground, all the rubber in the world won't improve its grip. The loss of grip means that Attack types suddenly have nothing to counteract their own recoil aside from their own weight; it's basically like they went ahead and switched out their tip for an XF or something else with very little grip. Coupled with Phantom's moderate Attack, the opposing Attack type ruins its own attack by throwing itself into the air by its own recoil. The Begirados LTAC works similarly; it has a great deal of Upper Smash in addition to its Smash Attack, so it throws opposing Defense types (or Attack types) up and out, breaking their contact with the floor and preventing their rubber tips from helping them. Its Upper Smash also allows it to destabilize opponents, and my Balro, strangely, boosts Begirados' solo time drastically. This means I can actually just stall out Wyvang^2 in Attack v Attack; I have more Stamina than them, contact with Begirados interrupts their attack, and I can destabilize them more effectively than they can destabilize me.

leone: I sompletely understand what you are saying about the parts technically being outclassed. I could have sworn I saw Dragooon MF somewhere before though... I'll look around and see if there are already tests.


In any case, I will be re-testing and possibly upgrading all of the combos I listed.


I'm not sure if it's just me, but it often seems that in the Michigan meta, I see a lot more Balance and oddball combos than what you would expect. To counter those Balance combos, and prepare for other unusual combos I may not understand, I prefer to have a large number of unusual, good-against-everything customizations ready to counter them.
I mean against Wyvang Wyvang Attack I would just use Wyvang Dragooon Against it since Left Spin Attack wins most of the time, but if the Begairodos can do that then I may have to dust my Begairodos and start battling with it. Using XF might give that Bey a Stamina boost, but if Wyvang Wyvang has RF or any tip of its family then it can KO pretty easily. I would love to see some tests against Wyvang Wyvang, and have a comparison against Wyvang Dragooon. I will try to get some of my own as well, but I still stick to my theories at the moment.
Yeah, left-spin wrecks Phantom. It doesn't KO, but it has pretty much no trouble OSing Phantom.

And by saying that Wyvang is on XF, I don't mean to actually use XF - I'm saying that breaking contact with the floor negates any grip that RF provides, and thus it acts like a low-grip tip. Airborne Beyblades don't improve Defense/recoil handling with rubber tips, because the rubber isn't touching anything to provide grip on.
(Jun. 08, 2014  6:19 PM)Cake Wrote: Yeah, left-spin wrecks Phantom. It doesn't KO, but it has pretty much no trouble OSing Phantom.

And by saying that Wyvang is on XF, I don't mean to actually use XF - I'm saying that breaking contact with the floor negates any grip that RF provides, and thus it acts like a low-grip tip. Airborne Beyblades don't improve Defense/recoil handling with rubber tips, because the rubber isn't touching anything to provide grip on.
So your saying taller Beyblades provide better defense, right?
Yes, Girago^2 BD145RF can easily KO Duo W145WD, but not MF Duo 230MB. This true for stamina at least.
(Jun. 08, 2014  6:26 PM)AZL Wrote: Yes, Girago^2 BD145RF can easily KO Duo W145WD, but not MF Duo 230MB. This true for stamina at least.
Yes, but with a Sliding Shot and tornado stalling it can be KOed. It is definintley harder, but it can be done. I saw it in action at a tournament. Not the same combos, or even format, but the same concept. Lighting L-Drago TR145R2F went 2-3 against Libra 230MB at a Limited Tournamemt. The reason the final battle was lost was a mislaunch...
You are right.
That's a nice observation. Wink
Everything can be KOed (it's true).
(Jun. 08, 2014  6:36 PM)AZL Wrote: You are right.
That's a nice observation. Wink
Everything can be KOed (it's true).
Hey my friend made MF-H Wyvang Wyvang combo that was impossible to get KOed, but RF OSed it, so some stuff can't be KOed, but this are too heavy to spin. Conclusion: There will never be a Perfect Bey for any type.
Your conclusion is correct.
Just the right lauch and the right bey and you can KO anything as everything has counters. The problem: choosing the right bey/launch.