The Judge rules the tournament.
The Judge does not get an unfair advantage, he has the same amount as any other blader.
As one of the only people in my state to my knowledge, Judges not being able to compete would be a total letdown to me. I wouldn't be able TO EVEN PLAY. I would have to burden someone with the task of:
1. Getting a BB-10.
2. Getting a prize bey/beys.
3. Learning the rules.
I am wholeheartedly willing to host a tournament, if there is enough people. But why are the capable (and willing) people, not allowed to participate in their own creation?
That's my thoughts on it. Judges should be able to play.

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How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

Good for those organisations. However, our tournaments are not run or organised by a body of staff, they're run and organised by members.

Here's my main point: I'm pretty sure a lot of us wouldn't bother hosting if it wasn't the ONLY way we got to compete, ever.

It's not a conflict of interest unless it's exploitable. The most they could do is rig the blocks or tournament order, which would become quite obvious after a couple of tournaments.

As long as no-one is judging any matches they are competing in (which is something I DO disagree with), and there are enough people looking on to call out anyone who makes a bad decision, it really isn't a big issue. Not big enough to justify the huge drop in tournaments we would see.

Sorry Fragbait, but we're not Wizards of the Coast, and as far as I can tell, you've never competed in a WBO tournament, let alone Organised one. I'm sure some people enjoy that, but it's the fun of being able to play a game we love that is the reason most of us end up hosting, and for a lot of people, the entire motivation for hosting their first tournament is just so that they are able to compete at all.

And before you point out (again) that you have judged tournaments, there's a big difference between judging and organising. Were the question "should people be judging their own battles" I'd certainly be on the No side, but for hosts competing in their own tournaments, at the very least you've ignored the practical aspects in a tradeoff for what you're "used to".

This counter, I feel, is really just paper thin. The only counter here seems to be, "Well, this is Beyblade."
I mean, Seriously? Why should Bey be any different.

But for a couple of your points specifically...
>However, our tournaments are not run or organised by a body of staff, they're run and organised by members.
Oh boy, here we go.
Let's see....

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258525
NO KOAST v3. Hosted at a Con, Organized by one person, judged by one person.

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/S...al_Inferno
This guy. THIS GUY. This guy WAS the Midwest Smash Scene. He organized, ran, paid for, and often times would run tournaments he intended on competing in.

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?thr...11.127336/

Wichita Fight Night. Hosted at a gaming venue, organized by one person, costs paid from his own pocket. Series of tournaments that was only ended by closing of the venue.

Also, card game tournaments, on the local level, may be hosted at a store with a body of staff, as you say, but they are organized and ran by one person for the most part. Exceptions to this rule are high dollar tournaments such as the recent $250 draft held in my FNM spot.
So, with that out of the way...

>Here's my main point: I'm pretty sure a lot of us wouldn't bother hosting if it wasn't the ONLY way we got to compete, ever.

That's just disappointing. Then maybe someone else in your town should host something? Maybe you should travel to other cities for THEIR tournaments? If you want to be serious about a game, be serious.

>It's not a conflict of interest unless it's exploitable. The most they could do is rig the blocks or tournament order, which would become quite obvious after a couple of tournaments.

So...you argue it's not exploitable, but then you prove it is, using my own example?

Judges have direct access to brackets (if applicable) seeding, statistics, and data on each player and game.

>As long as no-one is judging any matches they are competing in (which is something I DO disagree with), and there are enough people looking on to call out anyone who makes a bad decision, it really isn't a big issue. Not big enough to justify the huge drop in tournaments we would see.

And that's the thing. Without much digging through hundreds of threads in the Organized Play forum, it seems that the only large tournaments, with a few examples, happen in the same places they did pre-Hasbro MFB launch: New York, and Canada.
So, from what I've gathered from news posts, and how the committee practically BEGS for some new people to host (meant non insultingly), most of the tournaments are small, one host/Judge affairs, and they play both roles.


Furthermore, can you prove, with evidence, that there would be a drop in tournaments because of a ruling on this? Can you prove members like Deikalio, who have been part of this hobby before I knew that such a group like this existed, or people like our Committee, would stop hosting tournaments because of it?
I (and this is just conjecture based on time in other communities) believe this would give rise to a stronger judging and hosting base, one based in people that are happy to organize, learn fine details in rules, and to teach others. There's no true loss in having to step back, as I've said, and there's even a certain satisfaction in it.
Sure, certain smaller scenes will take a hit. But nothing that would cause a "huge" drop in tournaments. Besides, do you really want quantity over quality?


A few points on other things above that may be brought up:

-You may find me in the results for No Koast v3. I was entered into the competition, paid my fee, and didn't play. I was considered a Bye for most players, and I didn't even pick up the sticks. I was entered in to round out our numbers
-The Real Inferno's smash page talks about his history in tournaments. I didn't say, however, that the was a judge exclusively. Just the best one.

Quick, non-related question: What usergroup are you in that your username is italicized? >.> That's new.

The Judge rules the tournament.
The Judge does not get an unfair advantage, he has the same amount as any other blader.
As one of the only people in my state to my knowledge, Judges not being able to compete would be a total letdown to me. I wouldn't be able TO EVEN PLAY. I would have to burden someone with the task of:
1. Getting a BB-10.
2. Getting a prize bey/beys.
3. Learning the rules.
I am wholeheartedly willing to host a tournament, if there is enough people. But why are the capable (and willing) people, not allowed to participate in their own creation?
That's my thoughts on it. Judges should be able to play.

Well, that's kinda what comes with being a judge. But the creative judge can ease some of this burden.
>Find a local game/hobby shop to sponsor the tournament. In exchange for a certain turnout, have the store guarantee certain prizes. They don't necessarily have to be Bey.
>Learning the Rules doesn't have to happen overnight. It can be split up, like any other study.

Also, why is it the JUDGE's responsibility to get the Attack Stadium? Surely someone else in your community has a stadium that's legal.

And you seem to be missing the issue at hand. As I said above, a Judge has access to all aspects of a tournament, including pairings, seeding, and Win/Loss records. If that isn't an unfair advantage, I don't know what is.

fragbait, I did not even read half of what you wrote, but believe it or not, this community is not as malevolent as those card game and video game tournaments people you seem to refer to. Most of our tournaments are Round Robin, or Block Round Robin, and from what we see from the results they are fair. Nobody has bad intentions here. Plus, who cares about win and loss records ? That does not mean that you will necessarily win against another player, and if for some reason you noted the other person's combination, that player should be smart enough to change to another one once they battle (you), that is just part of any competition and it is not an unfair advantage ...

We also do not approve tournaments if the host him- or herself does not own a legal BeyStadium because otherwise, if the whole event relies on a third-party to bring one and that they end up not being able to come, everything does not work. Such issues have happened in the past.

Dark_Mousy had asked us at the Tournament on December 18th if we had a problem with him competing, since he usually won every tournament he competed in. It was a unanimous no (except hitsugiya, but he doesn't count apparently), that we don't care if he plays or not. He's a blader too, and he deserves the chance to play. Sure, parents might scold them, but so what? They're not your parents are they? I'm not saying you should disrespect the child's parents, but you shouldn't let the parents get in the way of your passion and wanting to compete. You want to compete? You should earn the right without being restricted.

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I dislike your description of my counter as paper thin. Frankly, you seem very reluctant to simply accept that communities will differ in how they are organised, and I think you should consider comparing the userbases, and the demographics here, as it might explain some of these differences. You've never been to a WBO tournament, let alone hosted one, so you really have very little to base your own assumptions on.

>That's just disappointing. Then maybe someone else in your town should host something? Maybe you should travel to other cities for THEIR tournaments? If you want to be serious about a game, be serious.

We only have one city in Western Australia, and I'm not able to take a plane to Sydney/Melbourne for their tournaments. Have you considered that some of us merely play for fun? It is just a game. This is the only way I'm able to play the game, other than helping train other people to host, and the main reason they host is because they want to compete. Yes, I get some satisfaction from helping these kids play, but quite simply, that's not enough to get me out of bed. So, by being serious about a game, I'd never get to play it. Fantastic!

Yes, there would be a drop in hosting. I can guarantee this, because I wouldn't host, and I know others that wouldn't host. Would you like to prevent some evidence to support your side of the argument here, or will you forego that as well? Personal satisfaction is hard to get if you never get to play the game you love, and bringing up the small number of people who do get satisfaction for it does not prove your point at all.

You've even conceded that "certain smaller scenes" (which I'd point out is everywhere that isn't within a drive of Deikailo, in Canada, or the UK (and maybe one of the Australian Communities)) will take a hit. That's what I want to avoid.

I've already stated my opinion on people judging their own matches, they need to train at least two other people to judge, if all the judges are competing (so when two judges face off, they will still have a judge for that match). I made sure to do this at my tournament, and it should be a priority for every host. Judging is significantly easier than hosting, and it's not hard to teach. :\

Quantity over Quality? Not how I would put it, but yes actually.. The WBO makes money from tournaments, and seeing as those that share your viewpoint are a vast minority, these quality issues you imply seem to be something entirely manufactured in the depths of your mind.

The rest of your argument has already been countered. Considering you've never been to a WBO tournament let alone hosted one, and obviously aren't on the site enough to know about the Advanced Forum and Veterans (italicised folk), you really seem to care a lot about something that doesn't affect you in the least, and that you have absolutely no experience with. Very few others actually seem to care about this, because we play for fun. We're not as serious about it as the smash community (thank goodness), the rankings are really just a little nudge for us to get down and spin tops and then try to win tops.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I did ask everyone of they had a problem with me playing. Hitsugiya was joking. I placed second at the event. If at any point the players or parents asked me not to play I would step down and just judge. We had a 10 person round robin and I don't control who fought who.

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I did ask everyone of they had a problem with me playing. Hitsugiya was joking. I placed second at the event. If at any point the players or parents asked me not to play I would step down and just judge. We had a 10 person round robin and I don't control who fought who.

I respect your ability to make your own decisions, but there's no objective reason for any host to not play due to blader or parental concern.

The rules are the rules, and there are no eligibility restrictions on age or host/judge status.

I did ask everyone of they had a problem with me playing. Hitsugiya was joking. I placed second at the event. If at any point the players or parents asked me not to play I would step down and just judge. We had a 10 person round robin and I don't control who fought who.

I respect your ability to make your own decisions, but there's no objective reason for any host to not play due to blader or parental concern.

The rules are the rules, and there are no eligibility restrictions on age or host/judge status.

I did it simply because I either win or you every tournament we have.

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at the world championships qualifiers in ireland i went to my first tournament i felt so stupid becaus i was the oldest there but anyway on point i lost in the semis but in the second leg my sister went up against this boy named------ and she lost because she used my old beys but the guy comes over and notices that the boys ripcord is a bit longer then normal , like the left spin one but he made him redo his match with my sister and i swear his mother was going to have a fit and i gave my sister the new earth virgo and ray striker(unicorno)and she mopped the floor with him so after he was knocked out the mother has a posh fit and is like (will he compete again ) i was laughing but i felt sorry for him because there is never any tournaments in ireland but honestly if i had held the tournament like a wbo i would have a choice of compeditive and beginner tournaments so the older compeditive blader can have their and the smallies can have the choice to

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i am donncha hear me roar

You would probably get less tournaments. Who would spend lots of money and time on something, and then not get to compete in what they created? That's like being an artist, then somebody just gets your art for free and you don't get any profit.

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I am sorry that I am leaving, but I think there are more people that hate than people that like me. I am sorry that I am not a good member, but I had a good time. I made a few friends like Titi, Primal, iBeyblader, Universe2, Storm Dragoon, and Harkins. I have just realize that I like this website as much as I like school, and if I want to still be happy while I'm blading, I will have to leave. I will still go on once in a while, PM, go to tourneys, and captain my team. It is just that I will not be posting. I feel like I need to be somewhere where I am appreciated. Goodbye. :)

EDIT: Just in case the tourney gets approved, I will still check that.

but in that form you could compete yourself and have no worries about getting scolded by parents it makes it fairer

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i am donncha hear me roar

well first off since there are no tournaments in my area the only reason i would host anyway is to compete in my own tournament plus not all tournament holders are skilled enough to place and you cant stop people from competing in a kids spinning top game that THEY hosted themselves and THEY went through the work to get it approved and everything

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"Remember this Masamune Kadoya, true effort, real training, is found at the very edge of one's limit!"-Klaus

just what im trying to say it would be so annoying if the host made all the effort just to be scolded out of the tourmanent

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i am donncha hear me roar

Just because your hosting doesn't mean you have a biased chance of winning. If a parent complains thats because they don't understand that, and if their child loses thats based on their child's skill it doesn't mean they suck, it just means they need practice.

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"That's Debatable"

TEAM KIRIN DESTROYERS

Just because your hosting doesn't mean you have a biased chance of winning. If a parent complains that's because they don't understand that, and if their child loses thats based on their child's skill it doesn't mean they suck, it just means they need practice.

I think that every parent who is at a WBO tournament should have to read a rewritten version of what you said for there kid(s) to be enter a tournament.

also look at it this way do they think a bunch of kids can handle and manage a tournament by themselves without the guidence no offense but the older kids are what make it work and its not so bad if we wanna participate in it too if parents get mad then there just imature

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Just because your hosting doesn't mean you have a biased chance of winning. If a parent complains that's because they don't understand that, and if their child loses thats based on their child's skill it doesn't mean they suck, it just means they need practice.

I think that every parent who is at a WBO tournament should have to read a rewritten version of what you said for there kid(s) to be enter a tournament.

Yes, sit parents down and try to lecture them. That will certainly go well.

also look at it this way do they think a bunch of kids can handle and manage a tournament by themselves without the guidence no offense but the older kids are what make it work and its not so bad if we wanna participate in it too if parents get mad then there just imature

Again, it would not be a good idea to insult people's parents because they want the game to be more fair for their children... it is understandable that they would suspect things, just not entirely justified. There is nothing immature about it, however.

Regardless, if I hosted an event, I'd most certainly participate.

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Some manner of Octopus.

Also: preventing hosts from competing would basically kill the plastics scene for good. As far as I know, most of us host tournaments for plastics because it's the only way we get to play, and there aren't really other people who would be able to host in most areas, so given the scarcity of tournaments, that could mean a whole year without play. Plus, hosting a plastics tourney usually means lending out beys, and lending out beys without being able to compete in one of the rare plastic events would be annoying, to say the least.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

That goes quadruple for HMS, since many HMS events I am aware of are just one or two people with HMS Beyblades and then everyone else borrowing.

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Some manner of Octopus.

I personally see no reason why the hosts should NOT participate in their tournaments. They are the judges, yes, with more responsibility. But that is all. They are really no different from the normal participants, except they have more responsibility, like watching the battles, and maybe taking a video.

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l Buying Thread l

Just because your hosting doesn't mean you have a biased chance of winning. If a parent complains that's because they don't understand that, and if their child loses thats based on their child's skill it doesn't mean they suck, it just means they need practice.

I think that every parent who is at a WBO tournament should have to read a rewritten version of what you said for there kid(s) to be enter a tournament.

Yes, sit parents down and try to lecture them. That will certainly go well.

also look at it this way do they think a bunch of kids can handle and manage a tournament by themselves without the guidence no offense but the older kids are what make it work and its not so bad if we wanna participate in it too if parents get mad then there just imature

Again, it would not be a good idea to insult people's parents because they want the game to be more fair for their children... it is understandable that they would suspect things, just not entirely justified. There is nothing immature about it, however.

Regardless, if I hosted an event, I'd most certainly participate.

belive it or not I had to do that to my mom at my first tournament to get her to shut up about older people beting me XD

You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. Don't hold back. Let It Rip! And offer to help the kid. Complement them on their skills. Tell them you look forward to battling them again. All you can do is help them to get stronger. And the parents will see that you are an experienced blader that wants to help the next generation. If they can't see that then it is the parents issue. Just do you best and keep competing. Everyone can Always get better.

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its fair because they spent money on prizes maybe even the place

and they went through the trouble of making it happen and if a kid loses so WHAT they were going to lose anyway you CANNOT blame the host they may need to stay after and practice some!

i fell if i lose its my fault not my combo not the person who told me the combo either just me

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Yes, sit parents down and try to lecture them. That will certainly go well.

Actually, half of the time they get it after you explain it to them. It's the ones that don't complain and that won't come back that I worry about.

i actually had a parent come up to me during a Toys R Us tourney and scolded me for not going easy on his child. i told him that it would be disrespectful to both his child and for me if i don't show him what you could accomplish if you work hard enough. i get parents badgering me and my co-host whenever their child loses at our hands and we keep telling them that they need to practice some more. i think that hosts have every right to participate in their tourney.