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SG Metal Ball with Defense Grip Base tip

Poll: Should it be legal?

Yes, it's the same as Uriel 2 in WB2 casing
75.00%
15
No, tips are not supposed to be switched
25.00%
5
Total: 100% 20 vote(s)
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Jan. 04, 2016  5:28 AM
 
[Image: 10z1sg0.jpg]
I was playing around with some fun combos today, by making hole flats out of bases that should have a metal tip in them. I showed a picture of one made with SG Metal Ball base and they said, "Put a Seaborg tip in it!". So I did and it fits great, tighter than it even fits into the Defense Grip Base that it comes with.
[Image: 2hmek9k.jpg][Image: 169hnk8.jpg]
It works awesome and with the weight that SG Metal Ball provides, it makes it even better than Defense Grip Base (putting 4 balls in the base is legal right?). I think this should be legal to change the tip like this. If you can flip tips anyway and put Uriel 2's tip into Wolborg 2's bearing casing and stuff like that, then this should be legal too. I see no difference and think it could rival Uriel 2 base combos, making a cheaper alternative for those who cannot afford to spend $100 on a Uriel 2. Taking the tip out of Uriel 2 and putting it in Wolborg 2's bearing case or changing tips in bases that fit and are not unreasonable. I don't see how the two actions are different in concept. Please comment with your opinion
Jan. 04, 2016  6:03 AM
 
hm, looks like a good idea. but i have no idea it is legal or not [due to i don't have much experience/interest in plastic]. gaining interest in plastic since i joined WBO. sorry if this post is spam but i was really sharing my option
Jan. 04, 2016  6:06 AM
 
Hmm.
I can't get my tip to fit inside. This could be due to wear though.
I'm not against it, but I'm not sure at this point. Seems interesting. I will have to get another Seaborg.
You gotta keep in mind that Uriel 2's tip is part of the SG at that point. And it was done to avoid breaking a ton of SG Grip Change Bases. So they're not really similar, to be honest.

(also, I like how Plastics discoveries are occurring, heh)
Jan. 04, 2016  6:25 AM
 
It's a tight fit, but that's a good thing. Remember how you lost your tip twice? Lol. Wouldn't happen with this combo
Jan. 04, 2016  7:13 AM
 
I followed what you said and put it in. The fact that I have to either work it in slowly or force it in isn't a good idea.
I know th!nk legalized the inverting of Seaborg's tip, but it was designed in a way in which it could easily fit inverted. The two were not designed for each other, evidenced by the fact that Draciel S' tip can't fit inside of Seaborg's base.

Yes, Plastics have more freedom with customization. I know that. But you can't just make something outrageous. I've pointed this out before, with the Screw Zeus thread.

I'll have to disagree with you, on this one. I wish it could've worked, as the synergy with Square Edge could've been amazing.
Jan. 04, 2016  7:21 AM
 
(Jan. 04, 2016  7:13 AM)Neo Wrote: I followed what you said and put it in. The fact that I have to either work it in slowly or force it in isn't a good idea.
I know th!nk legalized the inverting of Seaborg's tip, but it was designed in a way in which it could easily fit inverted. The two were not designed for each other, evidenced by the fact that Draciel S' tip can't fit inside of Seaborg's base.
I'll have to disagree with you, on this one. I wish it could've worked, as the synergy with Square Edge could've been amazing.

Welp, this had potential

Can't stop the square edge hype train though B)
Jan. 04, 2016  7:26 AM
 
Cool. Thanks for your opinion. I think the fact that it is a tight fit is a good thing, as I previously stated. Seaborg's tip wasn't meant to be inverted. Uriel 2's tip wasn't meant to be used in Wolborg 2's casing. So that argument holds no water. It fits, tightly (again, good thing imo), but it fits and works great. I don't like how certain exceptions are allowed and certain ones aren't. It should be all or nothing in my opinion, unless it is crazy OP and breaks the game or something, which isn't the case here at all. I think inverted Storm Grip Base tip should be allowed as well. It is in no way outrageous, it simply fits tighter and adds a bit more weight.
Jan. 04, 2016  7:35 AM
 
Like I've said to you before; Storm Grip doesn't really need to be inverted. It wasn't meant to either, and honestly you could just use Grip Base.

Keep in mind that Uriel 2's tip could've been dust if it weren't discovered that it actually fit inside of the WB2 Casings. The base it belongs to, Customize Grip Change Base, suffers from Gold Plastic Syndrome.
I'm sure none of us want this to happen:
[Image: IMG_4067.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip]
(image from Galaxy)
Due to the price and rarity, I'm sure legalizing that tweak was justifiable for a top tier part that could've been garbage because of the plastic color.


I wish that this tip with SG Metal Ball Base could be legal, but honestly there's no real concrete reason for it other then you like it. (I'll admit I do too, but the point stands.)
Jan. 04, 2016  7:39 AM
 
(Jan. 04, 2016  7:35 AM)Neo Wrote: Like I've said to you before; Storm Grip doesn't really need to be inverted. It wasn't meant to either, and honestly you could just use Grip Base.

Keep in mind that Uriel 2's tip could've been dust if it weren't discovered that it actually fit inside of the WB2 Casings. The base it belongs to, Customize Grip Change Base, suffers from Gold Plastic Syndrome.
I'm sure none of us want this to happen:
[Image: IMG_4067.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip]
(image from Galaxy)
Due to the price and rarity, I'm sure legalizing that tweak was justifiable for a top tier part that could've been garbage because of the plastic color.


I wish that this tip with SG Metal Ball Base could be legal, but honestly there's no real concrete reason for it other then you like it. (I'll admit I do too, but the point stands.)

Everything in that picture is truly suffering, hahaha.
Jan. 04, 2016  8:00 AM
 
In my opinion it should be all or nothing. You should be able to flip tips and interchange them with bases or not. You should be able to make things fit together a little extra snug (like gaia g's AR with screw zeus), or not. I don't think it should go both ways. That is my opinion, thanks for yours, but I respectfully disagree.
Jan. 04, 2016  8:41 AM
 
(Jan. 04, 2016  7:39 AM)Shirayuki Wrote: Everything in that picture is truly suffering, hahaha.

Honestly, it does scare me. Glad the casing trick is a thing; and the fact that Seaborg is an alternative.

(Jan. 04, 2016  8:00 AM)Zoroaste Wrote: In my opinion it should be all or nothing. You should be able to flip tips and interchange them with bases or not. You should be able to make things fit together a little extra snug (like gaia g's AR with screw zeus), or not. I don't think it should go both ways. That is my opinion, thanks for yours, but I respectfully disagree.

For my combo of Dragon Saucer+Screw Zeus, I meant snug as in snugly enough to stop the free spinning. No force necessary. Besides, completely different thing, that. It's resolved anyways.

Back on topic;
Keep in mind, only tip swapping is illegal. The only exceptions I can think of are the Customize Grip Base Tip, Magne Flat Base tip, and SG Grip Base Tips since they share the same general shape and mold to fit.
Uriel 2's tip takes on the form on a shaft, since it's technically legal to swap tips as long as their part of the shaft. But if the SG tip won't fit (for example, Grease Ball inside of Spiral Change) it's illegal. Putting the WB2 shaft and casings inside of Customize Bearing Base. Uriel 2 takes the form of a shaft, as its a part of the SG now, technically. And I think exceptions need to be made only when justified. Which it is. I'd love this but it isn't necessary, unlike Uriel 2. I mean, you could say Seaborg isn't necessary or that Uriel 2 is against the rules; but I'm sure anyone who plays wouldn't be very happy with those banned.


On a side note, I just realized why no one can get into Plastics, ha XD
Jan. 04, 2016  9:00 AM
 
You act like you are teaching me something. I completely understand. I simply disagree
Jan. 04, 2016  9:14 AM
 
(Jan. 04, 2016  9:00 AM)Zoroaste Wrote: You act like you are teaching me something. I completely understand. I simply disagree

Nah, just general discussion on the topic. You know forums are like that; people don't always agree with the topic at hand.
Opinions, yo.

Edit:
I'll just add this, too.
You should know that maybe the people preceding us in Beyblade knew a thing or two; so obviously there's a reason to why it was banned in the first place; and of course there's a reason as to why the official rule book made exceptions.
Jan. 04, 2016  10:10 AM
 
Tbh I agree with Neo. There is a definitive reason for the examples mentioned so there's a difference.
Jan. 04, 2016  10:48 AM
 
I only posted this thread because a bunch of people in Skype chat told me to. Lol. Where are they all now? Haha. Well I guess it is almost 5am. All in all I just thought I would throw my opinion out there. Seems more than logical to me, but I guess not enough people seem to agree. Oh well, at least I learned a thing or two in the process. Now that I have thought about it, what does it really matter? We shouldnt really be bothering the committee with rule changes about a basically dead format unless it is something more significant. People are used to the way things are and why bother to change things for the one tournament a year that people actually compete with these things
Jan. 04, 2016  12:45 PM
 
(Jan. 04, 2016  9:00 AM)Zoroaste Wrote: You act like you are teaching me something. I completely understand. I simply disagree

Actually, he´s only explaining his opinion once more in other words...discussing.

(Jan. 04, 2016  10:10 AM)Ultra Wrote: Tbh I agree with Neo. There is a definitive reason for the examples mentioned so there's a difference.

Same here, same reasons.

(Jan. 04, 2016  10:48 AM)Zoroaste Wrote: I only posted this thread because a bunch of people in Skype chat told me to. Lol. Where are they all now? Haha. Well I guess it is almost 5am. All in all I just thought I would throw my opinion out there. Seems more than logical to me, but I guess not enough people seem to agree. Oh well, at least I learned a thing or two in the process. Now that I have thought about it, what does it really matter? We shouldnt really be bothering the committee with rule changes about a basically dead format unless it is something more significant. People are used to the way things are and why bother to change things for the one tournament a year that people actually compete with these things

As the others already told you, there are reasons not to change the rules. It´s not that we just don´t want to, because it´s always been than way. Tip changing is significant and that´s why they "bothered" to ban it in the first place. It´s really awesome of you to try that for us, but there´s no need to act miffy now that the rules eventually won´t be changed. At least that is how your last post sounds.
Jan. 04, 2016  7:29 PM
 
It's not really that it's just that I realized I would probably never even play a plastics tournament, maybe one a year if they happen at AN. So ultimately why should I waste this time and frustration on it. You guys apparently have it the way you like it and I have to accept it, no matter how illogical it seems to me.
Jan. 04, 2016  7:41 PM
 
(Jan. 04, 2016  7:29 PM)Zoroaste Wrote: It's not really that it's just that I realized I would probably never even play a plastics tournament, maybe one a year if they happen at AN. So ultimately why should I waste this time and frustration on it. You guys apparently have it the way you like it and I have to accept it, no matter how illogical it seems to me.

And if someone tries to explain it to you so that is a little less illogical to you, he´s "teaching" you....
It´s not the way we just like it, it´s the way think it´s best for competitive play. Allowing awesome modifications like yours would bring us one step closer to the perfect bey. And that is exactly what must be avoided.
Jan. 04, 2016  7:44 PM
 
It still wouldn't be better than the Uriel 2 tip base combo, which should be illegal in my opinion. That's why I don't see the logic.
Jan. 04, 2016  7:54 PM
 
Maybe, and there are lots of other possibilities of tip changing that would be even worse. But the point is allowing such tip changes in general: There are other options of tip changing that would make combos that would be better than everything else. So you can either forbid tip changing in general or do lots of testing with every single combo of tips and bases, if it´s "bad" enough not to be banned. Since the effort would be unproportional, it´s simply not allowed in general.
Uriel 2 tip base combo is technically not a tip changing, like Neo said. That´s why it isn´t affected by this rule. And it´s not close enough to invincible to be banned seperately.
Jan. 04, 2016  8:03 PM
 
I just don't see possibilities that would be better than the current best bases. Maybe that is because the current best bases themselves seem to be a manipulation of the rules and wouldn't be legal except by their case by case allowance
Jan. 04, 2016  9:25 PM
 
Frankly, I don't see why inverted Seaborg should be legal in the first place, given that it was never intended and doesn't even work with all instances of the base and tip in question. Mine atleast had to be bluetacked slightly just to test the hack.
Jan. 04, 2016  9:52 PM
 
Because when its inverted it is like a RF, didn't you guys watch Poursomesugaronme's video about Seaborg?

It'll eventually w ware down and it'll be "completely useless" which will not be a good thing. I do like it being inverted only if the other side is gone but aside from that....Ye-No.
Jan. 05, 2016  2:37 AM
 
RF is actually more indented in the middle than the Seaborg tip, meaning that this is actually more friction than that for the same kind of radius.
Jan. 05, 2016  5:56 PM
 
Quote:Frankly, I don't see why inverted Seaborg should be legal in the first place, given that it was never intended and doesn't even work with all instances of the base and tip in question. Mine atleast had to be bluetacked slightly just to test the hack.

I remember there was a beyblade magazine (perhaps it was corocoro, I don't know right now) which included some pictures showing different combos, and I 'm quite sure that there was a Seaborg with its tip inverted.
The rubber tip is not implemented in the base and as it can be removed very easy I see no point in banning the use of the inverted tip. Moreover it's an easy and cheap way to get an aggresive and useful attack base.

I see Zoroaste's point and it would be great to enhance the customization by adding new base-tip combinations. But Draciel S's base is by no means designed to have Seaborg's tip attached to it.
It just does not fit. It's no tight fit, it's just not a good one.
My last idea of combining Gaia Dragoon S's base and Seaborg's tip wasn't useful, but at least the base design was similar to the one the Defense Grip Base.

And yeah, I don't like Screw Zeus and Dragon Breaker as well. It's just not meant to fit together.

Quote:No, tips are not supposed to be switched.
So all in all I wouldn't say that tips are not supposed to be switched, but in this case I would say no.
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