(Apr. 04, 2023 12:07 PM)versusENDEV Wrote: Let me start by saying..The 5G format is something that’s an extension of this but not fully added into it. But I am sure that 5G would indeed be added in with this as part of it. As I have said before, the base idea I had is close to what Th!nk has proposed here. He has just added or slightly changed some things that I would have done. But so long as the base is there I’m fine with it and won’t argue.
"This is the way" (with Mando's voice)
Some may see it as the solution to BDr and balancing Burst Gen, but the most important part of this proposal is its impact on Beyblade X! Beyblade X is like a new start or a fresh beginning and I would like to see it start in the right way. The rules are the language of Beyblade and everybody should first learn a common ruleset before learning any other languages. In this way, the target audience(competitive) will not be limited to just one part of the globe.
I have said this before and I want to state it again, that "WBO should AIM to be the iPhone+/pro of WBBA's iPhone". Don't be an Android Phone that is totally different, but be different by providing more features to the base form. It is VERY weird for an organization that is carrying the name of Takara Tomy's Intellectual Property(Beyblade) but does not recognize or at least acknowledge their rules/standards. You are not required to play their way, but as a sign of respect to the creators, you should show your support by making it accessible to the community and not by completely shutting it down. WBO should be the one supporting Takara Tomy/WBBA, and not the other way around since TT is the owner of the IP. Does the WBO have TT's blessing to make changes on the Standards that they set for their IP? If not, you will have a real issue if TT decides to take action especially now that they are starting a new generation of products. IF BeybladeX becomes a hit and turns into a big thing, don't give any reason for TT to do something you won't like. You need to set things right by approving this proposal to show that you are supporting and respecting their IP, as well as exploring alternative ways of playing THEIR game. You can't just change someone else's work, use their IP's name, and then present it as your own without their consent. Better safe than sorry.
When this proposal gets approved, which I expect it to be, I assume that WBBA 5G is unlocked in Unlimited Format?
[Proposal] Unlimited Ruleset - Bridging The Divide
Poll: Should we add the Unlimited Ruleset as an option?
| Yes |
|
51 |
| No |
|
5 |
| Total: | 100% | 56 vote(s) |
![[Image: 4iz876.gif]](https://i.imgflip.com/4iz876.gif)
(Apr. 04, 2023 12:07 PM)versusENDEV Wrote: Let me start by saying..There is nothing stopping anyone who joins the WBO to become an organizer and only run WBBA ruleset events outside of ranking the tournament with a ranking system the WBBA wouldn't respect/recognize anyways. We have the freedom to do that and a multitude of other things all over the world under the WBO umbrella, by that alone I already believe the WBO is the iPhone 13 Pro Max Retina Display X Limited Edition to WBBA's iPhone 13. A good chunk of our rules are based on/ acknowledge what the WBBA does over in Asia (see bentguard, ways to score points, legal stadiums for ranked play, etc...) If Hasbro and TT haven't had any legal/respect problems with how the WBO has handled things for the last 10+ years (WBO has been thru 2 Beyblade gen releases I believe) I don't see why they would now.
"This is the way" (with Mando's voice)
Some may see it as the solution to BDr and balancing Burst Gen, but the most important part of this proposal is its impact on Beyblade X! Beyblade X is like a new start or a fresh beginning and I would like to see it start in the right way. The rules are the language of Beyblade and everybody should first learn a common ruleset before learning any other languages. In this way, the target audience(competitive) will not be limited to just one part of the globe.
I have said this before and I want to state it again, that "WBO should AIM to be the iPhone+/pro of WBBA's iPhone". Don't be an Android Phone that is totally different, but be different by providing more features to the base form. It is VERY weird for an organization that is carrying the name of Takara Tomy's Intellectual Property(Beyblade) but does not recognize or at least acknowledge their rules/standards. You are not required to play their way, but as a sign of respect to the creators, you should show your support by making it accessible to the community and not by completely shutting it down. WBO should be the one supporting Takara Tomy/WBBA, and not the other way around since TT is the owner of the IP. Does the WBO have TT's blessing to make changes on the Standards that they set for their IP? If not, you will have a real issue if TT decides to take action especially now that they are starting a new generation of products. IF BeybladeX becomes a hit and turns into a big thing, don't give any reason for TT to do something you won't like. You need to set things right by approving this proposal to show that you are supporting and respecting their IP, as well as exploring alternative ways of playing THEIR game. You can't just change someone else's work, use their IP's name, and then present it as your own without their consent. Better safe than sorry.
When this proposal gets approved, which I expect it to be, I assume that WBBA 5G is unlocked in Unlimited Format?
Also aren't WBO rules played with in more continents than WBBA? Since the WBBA only runs events in Asia right now? Even when the WBBA (Hasbro) hosted events outside of Asia, they didn't use the same equipment/rules as Asia.
Would it be cool to play Beyblade X day 1 with WBBA rules? Yes, I th!nk so. Is it going to make or break us with legal if we don't do that and use our own interpretation? Nah.
(Apr. 04, 2023 3:15 PM)Trsal Wrote: There is nothing stopping anyone who joins the WBO to become an organizer and only run WBBA ruleset events outside of ranking the tournament with a ranking system the WBBA wouldn't respect/recognize anyways. We have the freedom to do that and a multitude of other things all over the world under the WBO umbrella, by that alone I already believe the WBO is the iPhone 13 Pro Max Retina Display X Limited Edition to WBBA's iPhone 13. A good chunk of our rules are based on/ acknowledge what the WBBA does over in Asia (see bentguard, ways to score points, legal stadiums for ranked play, etc...) If Hasbro and TT haven't had any legal/respect problems with how the WBO has handled things for the last 10+ years (WBO has been thru 2 Beyblade gen releases I believe) I don't see why they would now.
Also aren't WBO rules played with in more continents than WBBA? Since the WBBA only runs events in Asia right now? Even when the WBBA (Hasbro) hosted events outside of Asia, they didn't use the same equipment/rules as Asia.
Would it be cool to play Beyblade X day 1 with WBBA rules? Yes, I th!nk so. Is it going to make or break us with legal if we don't do that and use our own interpretation? Nah.
I think a constant misconception is that you can’t host a tournament using the WBBAs rules and battle formats because we have no rules for it within the guide books. No where in any of them does it acknowledge that players can host WBBA tournaments. It all says “WBO”. So I think what people really just need is for the one running the WBO to come out and say that we can run WBBA tournaments and here is the guide for how to do so.
The other issue is the ranking system. And this happens with all competitive games. And I have no doubt that eventually the WBO will follow on those other games footsteps because it just simplify things… What I mean by this is that eventually the WBO will have to create a standard tournament structure that will be the only tournament structure that can be ranked. The reason for this is because people will stop acknowledging certain tournament structures as being “real tournaments” and argue that they shouldn’t be ranked. You will see things like “3on3 is to random and shouldn’t be ranked. P3C1 is better for competitive play and should be all that is ranked.” And while it is not true it will start to plant seeds in others brains and eventually more people will start to believe it and it causes rifts and splits in the community. And once that happens the WBO will have no choice but to step in and do something to remedy it all. It’s very unfortunate but it happens a lot with competitive play.
(Apr. 04, 2023 12:07 PM)versusENDEV Wrote: Let me start by saying..
"This is the way" (with Mando's voice)
Some may see it as the solution to BDr and balancing Burst Gen, but the most important part of this proposal is its impact on Beyblade X! Beyblade X is like a new start or a fresh beginning and I would like to see it start in the right way. The rules are the language of Beyblade and everybody should first learn a common ruleset before learning any other languages. In this way, the target audience(competitive) will not be limited to just one part of the globe.
I have said this before and I want to state it again, that "WBO should AIM to be the iPhone+/pro of WBBA's iPhone". Don't be an Android Phone that is totally different, but be different by providing more features to the base form. It is VERY weird for an organization that is carrying the name of Takara Tomy's Intellectual Property(Beyblade) but does not recognize or at least acknowledge their rules/standards. You are not required to play their way, but as a sign of respect to the creators, you should show your support by making it accessible to the community and not by completely shutting it down. WBO should be the one supporting Takara Tomy/WBBA, and not the other way around since TT is the owner of the IP. Does the WBO have TT's blessing to make changes on the Standards that they set for their IP? If not, you will have a real issue if TT decides to take action especially now that they are starting a new generation of products. IF BeybladeX becomes a hit and turns into a big thing, don't give any reason for TT to do something you won't like. You need to set things right by approving this proposal to show that you are supporting and respecting their IP, as well as exploring alternative ways of playing THEIR game. You can't just change someone else's work, use their IP's name, and then present it as your own without their consent. Better safe than sorry.
When this proposal gets approved, which I expect it to be, I assume that WBBA 5G is unlocked in Unlimited Format?
I don't really know what to say in response to most of this post, but I'll remind you we've done well enough to survive quite some time already, that corporations run competitive games to push product sales more than they do to make balanced games and don't deserve blind worship - there's very much room for an independent player and we have been that player for a long time now - after all, for all our faults you've still managed to find us to post this, right? We'll be okay whichever way we do things, don't stress on our part.
Also, just as an aside, ws someone who worked in a telco store for 6 years... I don't really consider the iPhone a product to model much after 😅
5G is a separate proposal, there have already been some test events, I am hoping it is something we can make happen soon as well, maybe it could be lined up with implementing this.
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
Especially considering TT basically has no official presence in the West so there's not even the incentive of WBBO exclusive rewards. Molding the rules around TT's official rules is good, but they should be adapted to the players' reality and how they feel about the meta, because as th!nk put it, their objective first and foremost is selling products.
(Apr. 04, 2023 12:07 PM)versusENDEV Wrote: Let me start by saying..
"This is the way" (with Mando's voice)
Some may see it as the solution to BDr and balancing Burst Gen, but the most important part of this proposal is its impact on Beyblade X! Beyblade X is like a new start or a fresh beginning and I would like to see it start in the right way. The rules are the language of Beyblade and everybody should first learn a common ruleset before learning any other languages. In this way, the target audience(competitive) will not be limited to just one part of the globe.
I have said this before and I want to state it again, that "WBO should AIM to be the iPhone+/pro of WBBA's iPhone". Don't be an Android Phone that is totally different, but be different by providing more features to the base form. It is VERY weird for an organization that is carrying the name of Takara Tomy's Intellectual Property(Beyblade) but does not recognize or at least acknowledge their rules/standards. You are not required to play their way, but as a sign of respect to the creators, you should show your support by making it accessible to the community and not by completely shutting it down. WBO should be the one supporting Takara Tomy/WBBA, and not the other way around since TT is the owner of the IP. Does the WBO have TT's blessing to make changes on the Standards that they set for their IP? If not, you will have a real issue if TT decides to take action especially now that they are starting a new generation of products. IF BeybladeX becomes a hit and turns into a big thing, don't give any reason for TT to do something you won't like. You need to set things right by approving this proposal to show that you are supporting and respecting their IP, as well as exploring alternative ways of playing THEIR game. You can't just change someone else's work, use their IP's name, and then present it as your own without their consent. Better safe than sorry.
When this proposal gets approved, which I expect it to be, I assume that WBBA 5G is unlocked in Unlimited Format?
What TT or any other product manufacturer does has no bearing whatsoever on how their products can or should be used. They are owed some baseline level of respect as the original author of the game, but ultimately the instant you purchase a Beyblade product and it enters your hands, any obligation you or any other fan has to follow TT/Hasbro/whatever manufacturer's direction goes out the window. You purchased that particular instance of the product, it belongs to you exclusively.
TT and co. retain intellectual property rights, but that has nothing to do with how individuals use their products - if TT or another holder of the Beyblade trademark decided to chase after the WBO for using "Beyblade" in its name, it would be equally in danger regardless of what rules the organization used. TT etc. have a legitimate interest in protecting their brand through their trademark, and so while there is some merit to saying that the WBO's name is on somewhat legally shaky ground, none of that has anything to do with what rules the WBO (or, hypothetically, a renamed World Battle Tops Organization or something) operates under.
Rules and other such methodologies are not trademarks, not copyrightable, and are not generally not patentable in US or EU law. Even if they were, TT etc. have absolutely no method whatsoever to require a specific set of rules to be used with their products. Hasbro has no more authority to kick down my door and arrest me for playing Monopoly "wrong" than they do to barge in and demand that we play Beyblade in their stadiums by their rules.
The WBO (or any organization like it) has every reason to disregard the intentions of the original manufacturer anywhere they would interfere with its mission - specifically because the WBO does not have any ties or obligation to those companies. The duty of the WBO is first and foremost to its players, because it is run by fans for fans. The WBBA will do its own thing as an extension of TT's marketing scheme, run by the corporation for the corporation. The WBBA's actions and goals may often line up with the goals of a fansite like the WBO, but make no mistake - selling toys and playing with toys are not the same, and the health of one does not necessarily imply the health of the other.
The WBO has very weak reasons to follow the WBBA's lead, and fairly strong reasons to do its own thing. Fearmongering about the possibility of some kind of hostile response from on high against the continued use of unique rules that have been in operation for over a decade already is ridiculous. As an extreme example, I would like to point to Super Smash Bros. Melee, which has a thriving organized competitive scene that dwarfs that of the WBO, despite years of open hostility from the company that birthed it - and Nintendo is 50 times larger than TT and 6 times larger than TT and Hasbro combined. Not only that, but Nintendo also has much stronger legal standing to enforce its ambitions, as digital media remains in something of a IP grey area. And yet Melee, 7 years older than the WBO, continues to exist, carried entirely on the backs of dedicated fans in spite of the persistent efforts of its original maker.
The WBO will endure the whims of the businesses that make our hobby just fine, I'm certain. The outcome that is the best and healthiest for the organization is not to turn into an unofficial extension of the WBBA, but to continue to act as its own independent entity dedicated not to sales figures but to the playerbase. Wise management of our rules and organization to cultivate a great play environment is, naturally, the best way to continue to succeed as an organization dedicated to play.
![[Image: rcFJUxo.png]](https://i.imgur.com/rcFJUxo.png)
![[Image: Blaziken.gif~c200]](https://rs301.pbsrc.com/albums/nn67/kael999/animated%20pics/Blaziken.gif~c200)
(Apr. 04, 2023 3:15 PM)Trsal Wrote:(Apr. 04, 2023 12:07 PM)versusENDEV Wrote: Let me start by saying..There is nothing stopping anyone who joins the WBO to become an organizer and only run WBBA ruleset events outside of ranking the tournament with a ranking system the WBBA wouldn't respect/recognize anyways. We have the freedom to do that and a multitude of other things all over the world under the WBO umbrella, by that alone I already believe the WBO is the iPhone 13 Pro Max Retina Display X Limited Edition to WBBA's iPhone 13. A good chunk of our rules are based on/ acknowledge what the WBBA does over in Asia (see bentguard, ways to score points, legal stadiums for ranked play, etc...) If Hasbro and TT haven't had any legal/respect problems with how the WBO has handled things for the last 10+ years (WBO has been thru 2 Beyblade gen releases I believe) I don't see why they would now.
"This is the way" (with Mando's voice)
Some may see it as the solution to BDr and balancing Burst Gen, but the most important part of this proposal is its impact on Beyblade X! Beyblade X is like a new start or a fresh beginning and I would like to see it start in the right way. The rules are the language of Beyblade and everybody should first learn a common ruleset before learning any other languages. In this way, the target audience(competitive) will not be limited to just one part of the globe.
I have said this before and I want to state it again, that "WBO should AIM to be the iPhone+/pro of WBBA's iPhone". Don't be an Android Phone that is totally different, but be different by providing more features to the base form. It is VERY weird for an organization that is carrying the name of Takara Tomy's Intellectual Property(Beyblade) but does not recognize or at least acknowledge their rules/standards. You are not required to play their way, but as a sign of respect to the creators, you should show your support by making it accessible to the community and not by completely shutting it down. WBO should be the one supporting Takara Tomy/WBBA, and not the other way around since TT is the owner of the IP. Does the WBO have TT's blessing to make changes on the Standards that they set for their IP? If not, you will have a real issue if TT decides to take action especially now that they are starting a new generation of products. IF BeybladeX becomes a hit and turns into a big thing, don't give any reason for TT to do something you won't like. You need to set things right by approving this proposal to show that you are supporting and respecting their IP, as well as exploring alternative ways of playing THEIR game. You can't just change someone else's work, use their IP's name, and then present it as your own without their consent. Better safe than sorry.
When this proposal gets approved, which I expect it to be, I assume that WBBA 5G is unlocked in Unlimited Format?
Also aren't WBO rules played with in more continents than WBBA? Since the WBBA only runs events in Asia right now? Even when the WBBA (Hasbro) hosted events outside of Asia, they didn't use the same equipment/rules as Asia.
Would it be cool to play Beyblade X day 1 with WBBA rules? Yes, I th!nk so. Is it going to make or break us with legal if we don't do that and use our own interpretation? Nah.
- If you want WBBA to recognize WBO rankings, WBO should be the one reaching out to WBBA and not the other way around because WBBA is the OFFICIAL Organization TASKED by Takara Tomy to handle their Beyblade Tournament matters. It is a lame excuse that anyone can become a WBO Organizer and host tournaments outside of ranked. Why become a WBO Organizer in the first place if your end goal is to host unranked tournaments? People can just do their own local tournaments which already happened/is happening.
- If you do your research, WBBA has the dominant population and countries using it.
- WBO will only become the FULL/Max specs iPhone once this proposal gets approved. For now, it is still act as an Android phone.
- Hasbro and TT are partners. They have contractual obligations to each other. Hasbro is the only company allowed by TT to modify their product and present it as their own. They are paying TT for that rights. Everyone is fully aware of how different Hasbro Beys have become and TT is fine with that because they are legit business partners. Hasbro cannot oversee what WBO is doing because they are not obliged to since they only answer to TT.
- Reality check: Beyblade competitive scene is too small compared to other competitive games like pokemon, yugioh, moba, console/pc games, etc.
It is not big enough for TT/WBBA to even consider exerting time and effort to step in and regulate things in a global scale. But that MIGHT change when BeybladeX goes live especially now in the age of social media where anything has the potential to trend and go viral. When Burst was released, social media was still at the early stage compared to what we have today. A lot benefited from the rise of social media and there will be even more when BeybladeX goes live. Also, the Pandemic is over and you might have noticed a growth in Beyblade again. Now is the perfect time to release a new generation that will keep their current customers, generate new wave of players, and perhaps attract big investors if they see the competitive scene as viable. IF BeybladeX becomes that BIG, which I believe everyone here wants it to be, that's the time you will expect TT to regulate their Brand. The last time I checked, B stands for BEYBLADE in WBO. They have every right to do what they want to those using the name of their Intellectual Property. They are the BOSS and no one is above them with regards to Beyblade. No one is forcing you to play WBBA or WBO rules, the main point is to do it the right way and this proposal is the solution to that. Bridging the bigger divide, not just the smaller BDr divide.
(Apr. 05, 2023 6:52 AM)versusENDEV Wrote:(Apr. 04, 2023 3:15 PM)Trsal Wrote: There is nothing stopping anyone who joins the WBO to become an organizer and only run WBBA ruleset events outside of ranking the tournament with a ranking system the WBBA wouldn't respect/recognize anyways. We have the freedom to do that and a multitude of other things all over the world under the WBO umbrella, by that alone I already believe the WBO is the iPhone 13 Pro Max Retina Display X Limited Edition to WBBA's iPhone 13. A good chunk of our rules are based on/ acknowledge what the WBBA does over in Asia (see bentguard, ways to score points, legal stadiums for ranked play, etc...) If Hasbro and TT haven't had any legal/respect problems with how the WBO has handled things for the last 10+ years (WBO has been thru 2 Beyblade gen releases I believe) I don't see why they would now.
Also aren't WBO rules played with in more continents than WBBA? Since the WBBA only runs events in Asia right now? Even when the WBBA (Hasbro) hosted events outside of Asia, they didn't use the same equipment/rules as Asia.
Would it be cool to play Beyblade X day 1 with WBBA rules? Yes, I th!nk so. Is it going to make or break us with legal if we don't do that and use our own interpretation? Nah.
- If you want WBBA to recognize WBO rankings, WBO should be the one reaching out to WBBA and not the other way around because WBBA is the OFFICIAL Organization TASKED by Takara Tomy to handle their Beyblade Tournament matters. It is a lame excuse that anyone can become a WBO Organizer and host tournaments outside of ranked. Why become a WBO Organizer in the first place if your end goal is to host unranked tournaments? People can just do their own local tournaments which already happened/is happening.
- If you do your research, WBBA has the dominant population and countries using it.
- WBO will only become the FULL/Max specs iPhone once this proposal gets approved. For now, it is still act as an Android phone.
- Hasbro and TT are partners. They have contractual obligations to each other. Hasbro is the only company allowed by TT to modify their product and present it as their own. They are paying TT for that rights. Everyone is fully aware of how different Hasbro Beys have become and TT is fine with that because they are legit business partners. Hasbro cannot oversee what WBO is doing because they are not obliged to since they only answer to TT.
- Reality check: Beyblade competitive scene is too small compared to other competitive games like pokemon, yugioh, moba, console/pc games, etc.
It is not big enough for TT/WBBA to even consider exerting time and effort to step in and regulate things in a global scale. But that MIGHT change when BeybladeX goes live especially now in the age of social media where anything has the potential to trend and go viral. When Burst was released, social media was still at the early stage compared to what we have today. A lot benefited from the rise of social media and there will be even more when BeybladeX goes live. Also, the Pandemic is over and you might have noticed a growth in Beyblade again. Now is the perfect time to release a new generation that will keep their current customers, generate new wave of players, and perhaps attract big investors if they see the competitive scene as viable. IF BeybladeX becomes that BIG, which I believe everyone here wants it to be, that's the time you will expect TT to regulate their Brand. The last time I checked, B stands for BEYBLADE in WBO. They have every right to do what they want to those using the name of their Intellectual Property. They are the BOSS and no one is above them with regards to Beyblade. No one is forcing you to play WBBA or WBO rules, the main point is to do it the right way and this proposal is the solution to that. Bridging the bigger divide, not just the smaller BDr divide.
"If you want WBBA to recognize WBO rankings, WBO should be the one reaching out to WBBA and not the other way around" no one said that? i dont know where u got that from. no one in the WBO wants the WBO to be exactly the same as the WBBA. and what is wrong with playing in a different ruleset than WBBA? you make it seem like there is a legal implication that the WBO is using different ruleset than WBBA. at the end of the day, the WBO is a non-profit organization designed to run tournaments for people who want a fair and fun competitive Beyblade experience, without 100% influence from WBBA and their marketing strategies.
(Apr. 05, 2023 4:45 AM)Cake Wrote:(Apr. 04, 2023 12:07 PM)versusENDEV Wrote: Let me start by saying..
"This is the way" (with Mando's voice)
Some may see it as the solution to BDr and balancing Burst Gen, but the most important part of this proposal is its impact on Beyblade X! Beyblade X is like a new start or a fresh beginning and I would like to see it start in the right way. The rules are the language of Beyblade and everybody should first learn a common ruleset before learning any other languages. In this way, the target audience(competitive) will not be limited to just one part of the globe.
I have said this before and I want to state it again, that "WBO should AIM to be the iPhone+/pro of WBBA's iPhone". Don't be an Android Phone that is totally different, but be different by providing more features to the base form. It is VERY weird for an organization that is carrying the name of Takara Tomy's Intellectual Property(Beyblade) but does not recognize or at least acknowledge their rules/standards. You are not required to play their way, but as a sign of respect to the creators, you should show your support by making it accessible to the community and not by completely shutting it down. WBO should be the one supporting Takara Tomy/WBBA, and not the other way around since TT is the owner of the IP. Does the WBO have TT's blessing to make changes on the Standards that they set for their IP? If not, you will have a real issue if TT decides to take action especially now that they are starting a new generation of products. IF BeybladeX becomes a hit and turns into a big thing, don't give any reason for TT to do something you won't like. You need to set things right by approving this proposal to show that you are supporting and respecting their IP, as well as exploring alternative ways of playing THEIR game. You can't just change someone else's work, use their IP's name, and then present it as your own without their consent. Better safe than sorry.
When this proposal gets approved, which I expect it to be, I assume that WBBA 5G is unlocked in Unlimited Format?
What TT or any other product manufacturer does has no bearing whatsoever on how their products can or should be used. They are owed some baseline level of respect as the original author of the game, but ultimately the instant you purchase a Beyblade product and it enters your hands, any obligation you or any other fan has to follow TT/Hasbro/whatever manufacturer's direction goes out the window. You purchased that particular instance of the product, it belongs to you exclusively.
TT and co. retain intellectual property rights, but that has nothing to do with how individuals use their products - if TT or another holder of the Beyblade trademark decided to chase after the WBO for using "Beyblade" in its name, it would be equally in danger regardless of what rules the organization used. TT etc. have a legitimate interest in protecting their brand through their trademark, and so while there is some merit to saying that the WBO's name is on somewhat legally shaky ground, none of that has anything to do with what rules the WBO (or, hypothetically, a renamed World Battle Tops Organization or something) operates under.
Rules and other such methodologies are not trademarks, not copyrightable, and are not generally not patentable in US or EU law. Even if they were, TT etc. have absolutely no method whatsoever to require a specific set of rules to be used with their products. Hasbro has no more authority to kick down my door and arrest me for playing Monopoly "wrong" than they do to barge in and demand that we play Beyblade in their stadiums by their rules.
The WBO (or any organization like it) has every reason to disregard the intentions of the original manufacturer anywhere they would interfere with its mission - specifically because the WBO does not have any ties or obligation to those companies. The duty of the WBO is first and foremost to its players, because it is run by fans for fans. The WBBA will do its own thing as an extension of TT's marketing scheme, run by the corporation for the corporation. The WBBA's actions and goals may often line up with the goals of a fansite like the WBO, but make no mistake - selling toys and playing with toys are not the same, and the health of one does not necessarily imply the health of the other.
The WBO has very weak reasons to follow the WBBA's lead, and fairly strong reasons to do its own thing. Fearmongering about the possibility of some kind of hostile response from on high against the continued use of unique rules that have been in operation for over a decade already is ridiculous. As an extreme example, I would like to point to Super Smash Bros. Melee, which has a thriving organized competitive scene that dwarfs that of the WBO, despite years of open hostility from the company that birthed it - and Nintendo is 50 times larger than TT and 6 times larger than TT and Hasbro combined. Not only that, but Nintendo also has much stronger legal standing to enforce its ambitions, as digital media remains in something of a IP grey area. And yet Melee, 7 years older than the WBO, continues to exist, carried entirely on the backs of dedicated fans in spite of the persistent efforts of its original maker.
The WBO will endure the whims of the businesses that make our hobby just fine, I'm certain. The outcome that is the best and healthiest for the organization is not to turn into an unofficial extension of the WBBA, but to continue to act as its own independent entity dedicated not to sales figures but to the playerbase. Wise management of our rules and organization to cultivate a great play environment is, naturally, the best way to continue to succeed as an organization dedicated to play.
What happened to Smash is totally different story. Melee was revived by tournament hosts and it was a game that Nintendo already stopped supporting because they already have a new Smash game. So, your analogy is wrong. If WBO popularized Metal Fight to the point that it creates an issue on the new Beyblade X sales/tournaments, then that is your correct Smash analogy. Also, Melee tournament hosts does not carry Nintendo's name so they can't really dictate what the host wants to do. In BeybladeX's case, it is a new product that TT probably have plans for. No one knows if a global tournament is part of their plan, but as long as WBO is not in the way of TT's plans, there won't be any problem. I'm just saying that TT "can" step in if WBO will not be in line with their plans. TT would probably win a cease and desist case because of the Beyblade name. A simple name can mean everything, but that is just a worst case scenario.
I don't want this to go out of topic. It is fine if you don't agree with my reasons of why I support this proposal. We all have our own reasons. Arguing with someone on how and why they support a proposal that they both agree is nonsense! Does it matter if we have different reasons? No! Because what's important is that majority of us, based from the votes, agree with this proposal. This proposal will future-proof WBO for whatever TT is planning for Beyblade X.
(Apr. 04, 2023 3:40 PM)CrisisCrusher07 Wrote:(Apr. 04, 2023 3:15 PM)Trsal Wrote: There is nothing stopping anyone who joins the WBO to become an organizer and only run WBBA ruleset events outside of ranking the tournament with a ranking system the WBBA wouldn't respect/recognize anyways. We have the freedom to do that and a multitude of other things all over the world under the WBO umbrella, by that alone I already believe the WBO is the iPhone 13 Pro Max Retina Display X Limited Edition to WBBA's iPhone 13. A good chunk of our rules are based on/ acknowledge what the WBBA does over in Asia (see bentguard, ways to score points, legal stadiums for ranked play, etc...) If Hasbro and TT haven't had any legal/respect problems with how the WBO has handled things for the last 10+ years (WBO has been thru 2 Beyblade gen releases I believe) I don't see why they would now.
Also aren't WBO rules played with in more continents than WBBA? Since the WBBA only runs events in Asia right now? Even when the WBBA (Hasbro) hosted events outside of Asia, they didn't use the same equipment/rules as Asia.
Would it be cool to play Beyblade X day 1 with WBBA rules? Yes, I th!nk so. Is it going to make or break us with legal if we don't do that and use our own interpretation? Nah.
I think a constant misconception is that you can’t host a tournament using the WBBAs rules and battle formats because we have no rules for it within the guide books. No where in any of them does it acknowledge that players can host WBBA tournaments. It all says “WBO”. So I think what people really just need is for the one running the WBO to come out and say that we can run WBBA tournaments and here is the guide for how to do so.
The other issue is the ranking system. And this happens with all competitive games. And I have no doubt that eventually the WBO will follow on those other games footsteps because it just simplify things… What I mean by this is that eventually the WBO will have to create a standard tournament structure that will be the only tournament structure that can be ranked. The reason for this is because people will stop acknowledging certain tournament structures as being “real tournaments” and argue that they shouldn’t be ranked. You will see things like “3on3 is to random and shouldn’t be ranked. P3C1 is better for competitive play and should be all that is ranked.” And while it is not true it will start to plant seeds in others brains and eventually more people will start to believe it and it causes rifts and splits in the community. And once that happens the WBO will have no choice but to step in and do something to remedy it all. It’s very unfortunate but it happens a lot with competitive play.
The ranking system can be tailored to the proposal if it gets approved. Any ranked tournament, regardless if it is Standard or Unlimited, will generate your "All Time" Ranking Points(the current WBO ranking system). But if an organizer chose to host a Standard Ranked Tournament, it will generate a Seasonal/Annual Ranking Points in addition to generating an All Time Rank points. In this way, WBO does not need to reset/abolish the current ranking system but instead add a new one that resets yearly. WBO can award its Season MOP(Most Outstanding Player) to the the best Ranking Blader of the season, like a Season MVP in NBA. The MOP will be awarded just before the Rank Reset. The rank reset will happen when a National Championship or like the BWC is held to crown a Grand Tournament Champion. The MOP will be the favorite to win the title but it will also create an underdog story if another player wins the championship. The season can run for 10 months and there will be 2 months offseason that the WBO can use to apply changes on the Ranked Standard Format, whether it will be rule change, stadium change, match type to be used, ban, unban, etc. Two months to decide of what to implement for the next season. During the offseason, there will still be the All Time Rank to keep competitive players busy and the time can also be used to experiment on combos/strategies for the next season. Ranked Standard is still accessible during the offseason, but it will not give seasonal rank points during that period. The National Championship will be up to the Organizers to discuss on who will host, for example they can take turns each year on who is able to do a large scale tournament. Part of the offseason agenda will also be discussing the structure of the next National Championships.
(Apr. 05, 2023 8:29 AM)versusENDEV Wrote:.Spoiler (Click to View)
If anything, the WBO would give more traction worldwide for any global event TT would do, and boost sales too as we constantly talk about their products here. So not sure how a fan-run organization that with their own rules would stop TT on it's tracks. If a global event does happen, they'll just use their rules or custom, it's not like ours get in the way.
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This is valid. However, your reasons do seem to spark some talk, which leads the thread into the offtopic zone. It is not nonsense to discuss about the reasons though, as some may be more controversial than others or may not even make sense.
You can create a thread to share your worries with the WBO in a more on-topic environment.
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You can also create your own thread for that suggestion on restructuring or adding stuff, especially with this huge restructuring idea of yours.
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Anyways, I like the format split thing.
I'll put in a last word on my end regarding the above.
As far as I am aware, the WBO is comfortable with our relationship to and with the WBBA. We are not the WBBA. We do not need to be the WBBA. We do not need recognition by or to be absorbed into the WBBA. We do pay attention to their rules and we do use a number of them, but we acknowledge we have a longer history than the wbba focusses on, and we believe that we can be more than the sum of the parts handed to us. We have already done so, MFL is more popular than Zero G or MFS after all.
Now, if an opportunity came up for a partnership with them, that is something for which terms can be discussed at the time and obviously something that would be of great interest - but until then we are okay to continue with our own processes that account for differences in practicality, audience, and revenue streams as to make our "product" as successful as we possibly can.
If there are further proposals to be made for how we operate ideologically or organisationally, I would encourage people to make separate threads for those 😊
As far as I am aware, the WBO is comfortable with our relationship to and with the WBBA. We are not the WBBA. We do not need to be the WBBA. We do not need recognition by or to be absorbed into the WBBA. We do pay attention to their rules and we do use a number of them, but we acknowledge we have a longer history than the wbba focusses on, and we believe that we can be more than the sum of the parts handed to us. We have already done so, MFL is more popular than Zero G or MFS after all.
Now, if an opportunity came up for a partnership with them, that is something for which terms can be discussed at the time and obviously something that would be of great interest - but until then we are okay to continue with our own processes that account for differences in practicality, audience, and revenue streams as to make our "product" as successful as we possibly can.
If there are further proposals to be made for how we operate ideologically or organisationally, I would encourage people to make separate threads for those 😊
I think (and the voting so far supports this) that going in this direction is a no-brainer.
But I’d like to take a step back to try and contextualize why I think this is a no-brainer:
The WBO’s vision is to help people “Play Beyblade, Together”. I view every decision we make now through that lens. And I say it at every opportunity to remind people of this.
Although it was acknowledged that this proposal does not address legitimate concerns about mixing different rulesets into the ranking system, that is a separate issue that must be addressed independently. Some players may like to see a separate ranking for each ruleset so that you can have a more granular view of who is the ‘best’ in specific areas. That’s legitimate. Combining all standardized formats for a particular generation under one “master” ranking (like we have now) is too.
At the end of the day, when it comes to discussion about the rankings or any rule within Beyblade, there will always be someone who has a different opinion than you. And that’s OK.
Takara-Tomy once identified Beyblade as a “communication toy”. It enables connections among people.
The framework and structure provided by any set of rules we play with enables such communication and connection. Without it, you have chaos.
If we want to help generate more connections and maximize the number of people who can enjoy playing Beyblade with each other, we must allow for greater freedom of choice when it comes to the rulesets available for both players and organizers. We’ve already seen this come into effect over the past few years with various rule changes and additions, such as the addition of Match Types like P3C1, unlocking WBO Deck for first stage, and 3on3.
We know that there are an endless number of ways to enjoy playing Beyblade. But as an organization that also aims to promote competition the key is to ensure that the additional flexibility is built into a manageable, fair, understandable framework so that it can be communicated effectively and played competitively. That's been done here.
Allowing for a more diverse set of standardized rulesets which allow for more people to have their preferences heard and quite simply moves us closer to achieving our organization’s vision. That’s why I am in favour of it.
My only feedback would be that the one thing which might be missing and worth considering is that if someone wants to, for instance, play ranked traditional WBO Burst Format rules but with no bans on BDr and MBD ... it doesn't seem to be an option? Basically, I'm not sure if forcing a ban on certain parts in the "Standard" rulesets is the best thing (safety-related bans being the only exception). If such bans were an option, that would enable greater flexibility.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to making this proposal!
But I’d like to take a step back to try and contextualize why I think this is a no-brainer:
The WBO’s vision is to help people “Play Beyblade, Together”. I view every decision we make now through that lens. And I say it at every opportunity to remind people of this.
Although it was acknowledged that this proposal does not address legitimate concerns about mixing different rulesets into the ranking system, that is a separate issue that must be addressed independently. Some players may like to see a separate ranking for each ruleset so that you can have a more granular view of who is the ‘best’ in specific areas. That’s legitimate. Combining all standardized formats for a particular generation under one “master” ranking (like we have now) is too.
At the end of the day, when it comes to discussion about the rankings or any rule within Beyblade, there will always be someone who has a different opinion than you. And that’s OK.
Takara-Tomy once identified Beyblade as a “communication toy”. It enables connections among people.
The framework and structure provided by any set of rules we play with enables such communication and connection. Without it, you have chaos.
If we want to help generate more connections and maximize the number of people who can enjoy playing Beyblade with each other, we must allow for greater freedom of choice when it comes to the rulesets available for both players and organizers. We’ve already seen this come into effect over the past few years with various rule changes and additions, such as the addition of Match Types like P3C1, unlocking WBO Deck for first stage, and 3on3.
We know that there are an endless number of ways to enjoy playing Beyblade. But as an organization that also aims to promote competition the key is to ensure that the additional flexibility is built into a manageable, fair, understandable framework so that it can be communicated effectively and played competitively. That's been done here.
Allowing for a more diverse set of standardized rulesets which allow for more people to have their preferences heard and quite simply moves us closer to achieving our organization’s vision. That’s why I am in favour of it.
My only feedback would be that the one thing which might be missing and worth considering is that if someone wants to, for instance, play ranked traditional WBO Burst Format rules but with no bans on BDr and MBD ... it doesn't seem to be an option? Basically, I'm not sure if forcing a ban on certain parts in the "Standard" rulesets is the best thing (safety-related bans being the only exception). If such bans were an option, that would enable greater flexibility.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to making this proposal!
![[Image: beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/VLksgt2k/beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg)
(Apr. 09, 2023 11:52 AM)Kei Wrote: My only feedback would be that the one thing which might be missing and worth considering is that if someone wants to, for instance, play ranked traditional WBO Burst Format rules but with no bans on BDr and MBD ... it doesn't seem to be an option? Basically, I'm not sure if forcing a ban on certain parts in the "Standard" rulesets is the best thing (safety-related bans being the only exception). If such bans were an option, that would enable greater flexibility.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to making this proposal!
I think this is great feedback. Im not sure the overall purpose of this proposal was to implement unlimited or see the communities views on using WBBA formats and rulesets. My take away was more that players wanted the unlimited/wbba rulesets to implement into their game.
Since I've been involved in the community I have seen the main issue within our rulesets is the limitation in play, from back wall KO's in burst, no rotational changes, 3G was recently implemented but not 5G so single bey became kind of stale in the meta (when you play outside of your region), the use of a single standard stadium in burst ranked until recently. With all of these and other issues they arrive because we have something to compare our rulesets to, and that is the ruleset of the WBBA. This proposal, and I could be wrong, is just a glimpse on how the community feels with implementing the WBBA ruleset of play and implementing bans.
However, I think the WBO can take this feedback and adapt it to our WBO community. We have the ability to implement formats and make changes as we see fit to benefit the community. We see that players are in agreement with rotational changes, bans, 2 separate formats (Unlimited and Limited) so maybe we can go from there. Instead of looking at it as WBO vs WBBA we could just have the Unlimited and Limited format. The "Unlimited" is just a name, but the gameplay and ruleset is what is most important. Players want the freedom of having no bans or have the option to play with bans, and several other factors in this proposal. We can please both of the masses by splitting them into complete raw play with Unlimited, and balance focused with Limited. This can go across the board with every format we have and truly simplify a lot of things. Use the base from TT/WBBA and go from there and maintain all our play formats as options 1v1, p3c1, 3v3 and hopefully 5G within Unlimited and Limited.
To sum this up, essentially we can run Unlimited and a Standard WBO play style that does not conflict with the past significantly. Implementing just 2 ways to play is a win win. If someone wanted to play traditional burst I'd ask which one? Classic, limited, standard...there are so many options and they can still be there. The takeaway is just to reimplement bans to the masses that want it and open the floodgates to the masses that don't.
I vote yes on this, with dual spins being allowed in play, I CAN FINALLY USE ZEST ACHILLES STOCK AT ITS TRUE 48 WAYS TO PLAYYYYYYYY