Stock wV isn't particulary good. If hS was doing really well against wV Atomic/other stationary wV setups, that wouldn't make it inherently better than dF, tN, or eF which can all do the same, it would just make it a good choice for defense combos. I doubt hS will get banned.

This might be the Hell Salamander booster. I'm also thinking that the Disk might be 14 or 16.

It was just released 2 days ago in Japan it has the Hell Salamander layer, 12 Disk that comes with Winning Valtreyek ( or Valkerie ) and has Operate Tip.
Operate is a tip with a Ball on it that can change from Defense mode to Attack, 12 is well 12 just a really lightweight attack type disk, and of course Hell Salamander is I think a Defense type layer that can change I between I think a Regular mode to a Barrage anyways that's all I know except its awesome!

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Stock wV isn't particulary good. If hS was doing really well against wV Atomic/other stationary wV setups, that wouldn't make it inherently better than dF, tN, or eF which can all do the same, it would just make it a good choice for defense combos. I doubt hS will get banned.

I kinda agree but also disagree with the way Hell Salamander is in Attack I mean i've saw that thing in attack and its insane! In Defense its pretty calm of course but I don't think it will get banned from how terribly of balance it is when in attack...

A few days before Hell Salamander's design was revealed I talked to my friend BeelzebBlader (aka. SatombCrafter) and he was like: "Dude, you know what would be awesome? A metal Arc Bahamut 0-Bump Bearing with the shape of Poison (the Metal Wheel from MFB). This shape and teeth would be the best for Spin Stealing and regaining clicks!" Part of his prediction has already come true: a left spin, poison-shaped, chouzetsu Bey with weak teeth. If it now turns out that Hell Salamander can spin steal and regain clicks he's either a psychic or a hacker (he really knows a lot about system programming). I am confused. ^^'

This might be the Hell Salamander booster. I'm also thinking that the Disk might be 14 or 16.

It was just released 2 days ago in Japan it has the Hell Salamander layer, 12 Disk that comes with Winning Valtreyek ( or Valkerie ) and has Operate Tip.
Operate is a tip with a Ball on it that can change from Defense mode to Attack, 12 is well 12 just a really lightweight attack type disk, and of course Hell Salamander is I think a Defense type layer that can change I between I think a Regular mode to a Barrage anyways that's all I know except its awesome!

It's advertised as a Balance Type Layer with the 10 point as Defense mode, and the 5 point as Attack mode.

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LET IT RIP!!

wbba profile

My two beys Earth Eagle, Dark Libra, forever lost,

you'll always be the one that started my hobby

and the Beyblade Geeks rekindled it.

[Image: pdXOXLR.jpg]

That's for sure, pheonix. Not even stock wV could do much against hS, just a ko finish. The "problem" is: if it proves to be too hard to defeat over and over again, i think hS will enter in the Guinness World Records' book for being the most quickly banned layer in burst metagame. This also pushes us all to find a combo who can greatly compete with it. My advice is to focus on wV only, the other ones have no chance at all.

You're absolutely correct. Even I think that wV is one of if not THE best layer for ChoZ excluding hS cuz I don't know any body who has it and speaks fluent English other than @[Leo Burst]...

I bought it from Japan a few days after its release. Even if i'm italian i can speak at least a basic english. 
wV and hS are the best cho-z layers released so far. The first is the only hope to beat hS right now, it has skyscraping-tall teeth and an INSANE attack power. It delivers impressive hits. Unfortunately, bL disappointed us all cause most of the times it's the bey who bursts instead of its opponent. Wow, i can't wait for the other super z beys to be released! Buster xcalibur, for example, will be as strong as its predecessors? Idk, cause valkyrie passed from gV to wV so.....

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Stock wV isn't particulary good. If hS was doing really well against wV Atomic/other stationary wV setups, that wouldn't make it inherently better than dF, tN, or eF which can all do the same, it would just make it a good choice for defense combos. I doubt hS will get banned.

Yeah, that's why i was talking about testing different combos with wV. I spoke too soon (maybe), but hS is a dang good layer.

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This might be the Hell Salamander booster. I'm also thinking that the Disk might be 14 or 16.

It was just released 2 days ago in Japan it has the Hell Salamander layer, 12 Disk that comes with Winning Valtreyek ( or Valkerie ) and has Operate Tip.
Operate is a tip with a Ball on it that can change from Defense mode to Attack, 12 is well 12 just a really lightweight attack type disk, and of course Hell Salamander is I think a Defense type layer that can change I between I think a Regular mode to a Barrage anyways that's all I know except its awesome!

---

Stock wV isn't particulary good. If hS was doing really well against wV Atomic/other stationary wV setups, that wouldn't make it inherently better than dF, tN, or eF which can all do the same, it would just make it a good choice for defense combos. I doubt hS will get banned.

I kinda agree but also disagree with the way Hell Salamander is in Attack I mean i've saw that thing in attack and its insane! In Defense its pretty calm of course but I don't think it will get banned from how terribly of balance it is when in attack...

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This might be the Hell Salamander booster. I'm also thinking that the Disk might be 14 or 16.

It was just released 2 days ago in Japan it has the Hell Salamander layer, 12 Disk that comes with Winning Valtreyek ( or Valkerie ) and has Operate Tip.
Operate is a tip with a Ball on it that can change from Defense mode to Attack, 12 is well 12 just a really lightweight attack type disk, and of course Hell Salamander is I think a Defense type layer that can change I between I think a Regular mode to a Barrage anyways that's all I know except its awesome!

---

Stock wV isn't particulary good. If hS was doing really well against wV Atomic/other stationary wV setups, that wouldn't make it inherently better than dF, tN, or eF which can all do the same, it would just make it a good choice for defense combos. I doubt hS will get banned.

I kinda agree but also disagree with the way Hell Salamander is in Attack I mean i've saw that thing in attack and its insane! In Defense its pretty calm of course but I don't think it will get banned from how terribly of balance it is when in attack...

Do you really think anybody will not customize hS by changing disc and driver? Let's give some time to test it well, in defense mode it's great but with operate in attack mode and layer with 5 blades only makes me laugh bad for how unbalanced it is. Again, we need at least a month to find the best use for hS. I really think it has no use for attacking purposes cause of the short teeth. Defense-oriented speaking, it can only be improved (no doubt about it) since it's like a wall even in stock combo. With atomic/bearing and a proper disc hS will become a BEAST.

Edit: eF in stock combo has proven to be able to defeat hS several times, but only by outspin finish. Since we have found a reliable counter for it, my idea of banning hS is no longer viable ☺

As already said, I think weighing how good something is based on stock combos doesn't really tell you anything. Stock Winning Valkyrie vs. stock Hell Salamander, or stock Emperor Forneus vs. stock Hell Salamander doesn't really tell you much.

No need to worry about any layer being banned unless it proves dominance in the tournaments. Will take time to see that happen and prove anything.

So basically, only time will tell with how good anything is and what is actually good with it.

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[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

As I gather, bL is a much better buy than this. The hS gimmick seems as useless as V145, honestly.

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Balro gang 

As already said, I think weighing how good something is based on stock combos doesn't really tell you anything. Stock Winning Valkyrie vs. stock Hell Salamander, or stock Emperor Forneus vs. stock Hell Salamander doesn't really tell you much.

No need to worry about any layer being banned unless it proves dominance in the tournaments. Will take time to see that happen and prove anything.

So basically, only time will tell with how good anything is and what is actually good with it.

Hey fox! Yes, it's exactly what i talked about in my previous posts. If there are still doubts on choosing the best combo for the first 3 starters, everybody can understand that bL and hS are FAAAAAAAR away from finding out the best disc and driver for them.

As already said, I think weighing how good something is based on stock combos doesn't really tell you anything. Stock Winning Valkyrie vs. stock Hell Salamander, or stock Emperor Forneus vs. stock Hell Salamander doesn't really tell you much.

No need to worry about any layer being banned unless it proves dominance in the tournaments. Will take time to see that happen and prove anything.

So basically, only time will tell with how good anything is and what is actually good with it.

Hey fox! Yes, it's exactly what i talked about in my previous posts. If there are still doubts on choosing the best combo for the first 3 starters, everybody can understand that bL and hS are FAAAAAAAR away from finding out the best disc and driver for them.

Actually not that far as you are writing 'A's. Considering it has already released and people like you have gotten your hands on them. Typing about that, can you do some tests if you have enough competitive beys? Thanks!

Hey fox! Yes, it's exactly what i talked about in my previous posts. If there are still doubts on choosing the best combo for the first 3 starters, everybody can understand that bL and hS are FAAAAAAAR away from finding out the best disc and driver for them.

Actually not that far as you are writing 'A's. Considering it has already released and people like you have gotten your hands on them. Typing about that, can you do some tests if you have enough competitive beys? Thanks!

Hi pheonix! Unfortunately i only have wV cause basically ALMOST every other cho-z bey is not worth getting (or, at least, they need to be customized for being competitive). The other beys i have are from previous burst series (all Hasbros), so any test would be useless. wV is way too strong for them. Combos speaking, if you visit every thread dedicated to all cho-z beys released so far, you'll notice that everybody has his/her own opinion on what is better or worse. Example: some say to use old forge discs instead of core disc+frame cause the latests decrease burst resistance, while some say it's not true. Imo, wV/H/X is a strong combo. To be sure, however, WBO should organize an official cho-z beys-only tournament. But i think it will wait for more releases to come out, since the choices are pretty limited right now.

P.S. If you look at my post above again, you'll see that FAAAAAR is referred to bL and hS only.

I've been experimenting with Hell Salamander all day, and wow, is it ever a beast. Operate is a very interesting, super fun driver to watch in action, though I've yet to build anything solid with it yet. Stamina and balance issues for the most part. Still doesn't detract how fun it is. The bouncing is a neat gimmick. 

hS.0C/B.At, however, is dominating all of the competitive combos I've got the parts for so far, Sr combos included. I prefer Cross over Bump at the moment. Burst rate in my testing is low; usually it only clicks once. eF.0B/C.At is doing better against it than any Sr combo, typically getting 1-5 less rotations depending. 

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what more knowledgeable and skilled players can do with Hell Salamander. ^_^ It's gotta be my favourite Cho-Z bey so far, both in appearance and play-style/functionality.

Update: sX.7B.Ds/Jl is currently holding its own along with dC.4/7.At with or without Glaive/Cross (personal preference to Glaive if used) and dF.0/4/7.G/C/B.At against hS.0C.At. Looks like hS took a chunk out of dF's layer, so keep an eye out for that.

Looks like hS took a chunk out of dF's layer, so keep an eye out for that.

Wait, what? So they actually made it have metal points, and those metal points can damage other layers?

That was always my concern when seeing the explanation in CoroCoro, since they referred to them as "metal blades", but I had hoped it wouldn't work out like that.

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@[Kei] you might want to see where this convo goes.

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[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

Looks like hS took a chunk out of dF's layer, so keep an eye out for that.

Wait, what? So they actually made it have metal points, and those metal points can damage other layers?

That was always my concern when seeing the explanation in CoroCoro, since they referred to them as "metal blades", but I had hoped it wouldn't work out like that.

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@[Kei] you might want to see where this convo goes.

If these photos help at all:





The metal is extended to the tips where it appears blunt. I'm not sure whether dF just took a beating today and coincidentally broke or the contact points were at fault. My Drain Fafnir hadn't been used prior to today's testing so I can only guess. I truly hope it's not the case as I love Hell Salamander.

If any other photos are needed or wanted, I'll be glad to take them.

The metal is extended to the tips where it appears blunt. I'm not sure whether dF just took a beating today and coincidentally broke or the contact points were at fault. My Drain Fafnir hadn't been used prior to today's testing so I can only guess. I truly hope it's not the case as I love Hell Salamander. :/

If any other photos are needed or wanted, I'll be glad to take them.

How does the damage look on dF? Is it the rubber that took damage? Maybe it'd be good to see a photo there.

Yeah, I'm hoping it just happened to take a beating. I don't want to see any other parts be repeats of 12. That's just awful.

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Wait, did you test with 12 bare at all, since it comes with the stock form? Then it could've been 12 dealing out the damage (or laid the foundation for what ultimately happened). But strike that idea if you didn't.

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[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

The metal is extended to the tips where it appears blunt. I'm not sure whether dF just took a beating today and coincidentally broke or the contact points were at fault. My Drain Fafnir hadn't been used prior to today's testing so I can only guess. I truly hope it's not the case as I love Hell Salamander.

If any other photos are needed or wanted, I'll be glad to take them.

How does the damage look on dF? Is it the rubber that took damage? Maybe it'd be good to see a photo there.

Yeah, I'm hoping it just happened to take a beating. I don't want to see any other parts be repeats of 12. That's just awful.

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Wait, did you test with 12 bare at all, since it comes with the stock form? Then it could've been 12 dealing out the damage (or laid the foundation for what ultimately happened). But strike that idea if you didn't.

Whew, sorry I'm still new to forums and am not sure how to delete my own replies within yours.

Photos of dF:





I'm incredibly picky when it comes to my collector's pieces so it strikes me as odd that I didn't notice the chunk missing in the first photo as possible factory damage/a mold defect. The second photo with the smaller chunk and deep scratch on the blue area looks more like wear and tear.

Nope! I don't touch 12 with or without a frame. That's my concern with the layer too, just a sinking feeling of "please not this again, don't let it be this." Hopefully more info and experiences from other users will prove whether this was a one-off or not. Really, really hoping I had poor luck and put dF through the ringer than anything else (though it pains me to say dF underwent the least testing today).

Whew, sorry I'm still new to forums and am not sure how to delete my own replies within yours.

Hey, no worries. I grew up on these kinds of forums, so I'm used to it. Took me time to learn it!

I delete the extra innards by hand (because I think it looks nicer), but if you just keep them, that's fine.

Just tinker with things now and again. You'll make mistakes, but you'll get it with practice. But no rush.

I'm incredibly picky when it comes to my collector's pieces so it strikes me as odd that I didn't notice the chunk missing in the first photo as possible factory damage/a mold defect. The second photo with the smaller chunk and deep scratch on the blue area looks more like wear and tear.

Nope! I don't touch 12 with or without a frame. That's my concern with the layer too, just a sinking feeling of "please not this again, don't let it be this." Hopefully more info and experiences from other users will prove whether this was a one-off or not. Really, really hoping I had poor luck and put dF through the ringer than anything else (though it pains me to say dF underwent the least testing today).

OK, I've got good news! Those are factory/mold marks. Both of my dF layers have those exact marks. I also thought 12 originally dealt one or both of them, but when I got my second dF and saw the same exact marks...I knew it was all factory.

So good, good news! Woooooo!

Yeah, ever since, I better notice the factory marks. I felt bad that I didn't notice it before, but live and learn.

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See, here's a pic I made of the bigger mark, since I thought that was definitely damage. Same exact spot.

Unfortunately, 12 did cut into the rubber, so it wasn't left unscathed from the like 5 or so minutes of play. But it helped ban 12's bare usage, and so it wasn't in vain.

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[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

Okay now I am confused. Is there any improvement in 12 or not?

Okay now I am confused. Is there any improvement in 12 or not?

Nope. Same old 12...

Okay now I am confused. Is there any improvement in 12 or not?

No one has noticed any difference, as far as I'm aware. (I say that as someone without Salamander.)

sonyat thought the hS layer damaged a dF layer they had used. However, those marks appear to be factory/mold marks. Those are the same marks on my own dF layer I had debated were damage by 12 from the original stock Winning Valkyrie combo. dF's one mark is just really ugly is all, the other is a dot of a thing.

I hope that helps to clear things up!

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That's something good to ask about: Has someone done a direct comparison to the original stock Winning Valkyrie's 12 to see if there's any differences at all, even slight/poor adjustments?

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[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

No one has noticed any difference, as far as I'm aware. (I say that as someone without Salamander.)

sonyat thought the hS layer damaged a dF layer they had used. However, those marks appear to be factory/mold marks. Those are the same marks on my own dF layer I had debated were damage by 12 from the original stock Winning Valkyrie combo. dF's one mark is just really ugly is all, the other is a dot of a thing.

I hope that helps to clear things up!

I don’t think the scratch on the blue part of the layer is a factory mark, on my dF layer it wasn’t there so maybe hS did damage it?

I don’t think the scratch on the blue part of the layer is a factory mark, on my dF layer it wasn’t there so maybe hS did damage it?

Ah, nice catch! I'm tired, and I tend to miss/overlook some things when I am.

So there is one mark that is some level of new damage, with where it came from being unknown at the moment. I guess we'll have to unfortunately wait for more input.

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[[ Michigan Blader | Avatar photo by Ivan Kislov ]]

I don’t think the scratch on the blue part of the layer is a factory mark, on my dF layer it wasn’t there so maybe hS did damage it?

Ah, nice catch! I'm tired, and I tend to miss/overlook some things when I am.

So there is one mark that is some level of new damage, with where it came from being unknown at the moment. I guess we'll have to unfortunately wait for more input.

Thank you for all the understanding and help in previous replies, I really appreciate it! Good to know part of it was mold issues. I considered whether I should've said something or not but ultimately better to be safe than sorry.

I'll be doing more testing tomorrow with beys I have copies of to see if the hS layer is the problem. If you or anyone else has specific requests, I'll do my best to get them done. ?

RE the 12 discs: There's no improvements or adjustments that I can feel or see. wV's 12 disc and hS's 12 disc are exactly the same; no edges have been dulled. As always, can provide photos for anyone who wants them.

A few days before Hell Salamander's design was revealed I talked to my friend BeelzebBlader (aka. SatombCrafter) and he was like: "Dude, you know what would be awesome? A metal Arc Bahamut 0-Bump Bearing with the shape of Poison (the Metal Wheel from MFB). This shape and teeth would be the best for Spin Stealing and regaining clicks!" Part of his prediction has already come true: a left spin, poison-shaped, chouzetsu Bey with weak teeth. If it now turns out that Hell Salamander can spin steal and regain clicks he's either a psychic or a hacker (he really knows a lot about system programming). I am confused. ^^'

Libra, you are a genius!

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Acutally, something has been bothering me. For Natsu (hS) how strong are the teeth?

Ugh please let the clicks be strong...

Ah, nice catch! I'm tired, and I tend to miss/overlook some things when I am.

So there is one mark that is some level of new damage, with where it came from being unknown at the moment. I guess we'll have to unfortunately wait for more input.

Thank you for all the understanding and help in previous replies, I really appreciate it! Good to know part of it was mold issues. I considered whether I should've said something or not but ultimately better to be safe than sorry.

I'll be doing more testing tomorrow with beys I have copies of to see if the hS layer is the problem. If you or anyone else has specific requests, I'll do my best to get them done. ?

RE the 12 discs: There's no improvements or adjustments that I can feel or see. wV's 12 disc and hS's 12 disc are exactly the same; no edges have been dulled. As always, can provide photos for anyone who wants them.

Thanks for the effort sonyat! Can you please share some pictures if you don't mind? I just want to see the contact points.. Hope you don't mind.