Alright after some talinking with th!nk and and permission of a mod the name has changed. So basically now we are just discussing plastic parts in general. an example would be trygle vs griffoyon vs dragoon G what has the better attack rind and just discussing different parts, advantages ect
[Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread
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(Jul. 19, 2011 11:13 AM)th!nk Wrote: Basically, to fill everyone in, I pushed it to the point of it probably getting quite irritating, but apparently made some very convincing arguments (the system of griffolyon and salamalyon being a simple 4-layer system, them being released later than zinrai/hayate/raiden, and the fact salamalyon was released independently). I also found a post from Brad (albeit before the rules were written) saying that the AR's should not be banned.
The committee are, as usual, quite busy, so there has not been a decision yet. Hopefully, there will be one soon. However, let's not get too pushy, I've probably worn Kei to the point of exhaustion over it.
As of now, apparently salamalyon is tournament legal as it got a non-hidden spirit release. It's useless, but hey, it's something.
Honestly, I don't think many people would have a problem with the AR's at least being used.
It was never a game-breaking/fairness issue though. Just a matter of tournament legality. Brad seemed to recall it may have been mimicking Takara/Hasbro's position at the time, which isn't great for the "legalisation camp" but yeah.
They'll announce it when a decision is made.
That is good to hear. Hopefuly we hear about a decision soon. Honestly there is nothing irregular about the beys correct? other than the pegs on the AR for the "hidden spirit" figure, Salamalyon, Hayate, Griffolyon, Raiden, and Zinrai are perfectly normal 4-layer plastic generation beys (unless i forgot something but i dont think so) And the pegs on the AR's dont really interfear with battles anyway, from what I remember with my long lost Griffolyon. =(
Hayate, Zinrai and Raiden all use their own system, where AR's just clip on, and have an odd weight "ring" instead of the wd.
Griffolyon and Salamalyon, however, were released much later, diring the 5 layer gen, and used a 4 layer system. TT versions had clips on the base instead of the AR.
Griffolyon and Salamalyon, however, were released much later, diring the 5 layer gen, and used a 4 layer system. TT versions had clips on the base instead of the AR.
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
Never owned those 3, but i definatly owned Griffolyon and possibly Griffolyon2
and the non-hidden spirit salamolyon.
I had no idea about the 1st 3. That is odd. Still, Saly and Griff should be all legal, and some parts like the BB (SG if there is one) and the bit chip of the 1st 3 should be legal.
and the non-hidden spirit salamolyon.
I had no idea about the 1st 3. That is odd. Still, Saly and Griff should be all legal, and some parts like the BB (SG if there is one) and the bit chip of the 1st 3 should be legal.
The BB of the first 3 is weird, it's where the ar clips on abd the weight ring sits, I'll post pics tonight. Salamalyon is legal as it received a non hidden spirit release as the bakuten henkei gaia dragoon. That was quite rare, so you would've had the hidden spirit one.
Griffolyon is my aim, as it's AR is on par with 8 spiker and triple wing, and it really is just a 4 layer bey.
The funny thing is, if we interpret the rules literally, we can't actually use the weight disks of Salamalyon and Griffolyon, which are 8 Wide and 8 Balance respectively. I know it's not an actual rule, but it's what it says
Griffolyon is my aim, as it's AR is on par with 8 spiker and triple wing, and it really is just a 4 layer bey.
The funny thing is, if we interpret the rules literally, we can't actually use the weight disks of Salamalyon and Griffolyon, which are 8 Wide and 8 Balance respectively. I know it's not an actual rule, but it's what it says
that is true. if the hidden spirit beys are illegal, that incoperates all of thier parts, and I certantly dont want commonly used weight disks to become illegal. Did you mention this in your message to the commitee? That is a key point.
Going back to something you said before, that Griffolyon and Salamolyon, what do you mean?
Salamolyon is the bakuten henkei gia dragoon? was that like the 1st Gia Dragoon? (what does that name even mean i wonder) And why use Salamolyon instead if a new bey or a pre-existing Dragoon variant? Wierd if you ask me.
Going back to something you said before, that Griffolyon and Salamolyon, what do you mean?
Quote:TT versions had clips on the base instead of the AR.
Salamolyon is the bakuten henkei gia dragoon? was that like the 1st Gia Dragoon? (what does that name even mean i wonder) And why use Salamolyon instead if a new bey or a pre-existing Dragoon variant? Wierd if you ask me.
okay ive said this before but griffolyon and all the others have no ban worthy parts and when i use i just see plain old carp with the bases. If something needs to e banne id say trygles base and even that has little reason to be banned
leon: I was just joking about the weight disks being banned, the're obviously not, but the rulebook amusingly reads like that 
Oh, and I shouldn't have said clips. The TT Griffolyon and Salamalyon had the "poles" or attachment points on the bases instead of the AR's, as did Zinrai/Hayate/Raiden.
I don't know if it was the first, it was some kind of limited bey, but details are scarce. You can check the parts/release lists on beywiki to find out if it was the first one, but yeah. No idea why they did it, but yeah. The name isn't important, just the fact it's not a hidden spirit release
Pretty sure the bitchips of hidden spirit beys aren't banned, you could always just say you put the sticker on another beys bitchip, as you can use whatever sticker you want on the bitchip
Poseidon: I found a use for it as a zombie killer. If you are allowed to launch it extended, it can KO zombies, amusingly, if both are in left spin
I can understand the bases of them being banned, because they ARE really different, and I don't really think they hold AR's on well enough. But eh. All we really need to worry about is the AR's, they're the only useful parts of them, but it is simpler just to remove the paragraph banning hidden spirits as a whole.
I don't think us discussing this is worthwhile though, seeing as it's being considered.
Just gonna make a point that Smash Turtle apparently looks to be a great defence part, from Dei's and others posts earlier in the thread. Hmh.
Oh, and I shouldn't have said clips. The TT Griffolyon and Salamalyon had the "poles" or attachment points on the bases instead of the AR's, as did Zinrai/Hayate/Raiden.
I don't know if it was the first, it was some kind of limited bey, but details are scarce. You can check the parts/release lists on beywiki to find out if it was the first one, but yeah. No idea why they did it, but yeah. The name isn't important, just the fact it's not a hidden spirit release
Pretty sure the bitchips of hidden spirit beys aren't banned, you could always just say you put the sticker on another beys bitchip, as you can use whatever sticker you want on the bitchip
Poseidon: I found a use for it as a zombie killer. If you are allowed to launch it extended, it can KO zombies, amusingly, if both are in left spin
I can understand the bases of them being banned, because they ARE really different, and I don't really think they hold AR's on well enough. But eh. All we really need to worry about is the AR's, they're the only useful parts of them, but it is simpler just to remove the paragraph banning hidden spirits as a whole.
I don't think us discussing this is worthwhile though, seeing as it's being considered.
Just gonna make a point that Smash Turtle apparently looks to be a great defence part, from Dei's and others posts earlier in the thread. Hmh.
@ LeonTempest:
Bakuten henkei Gaia Dragoon is not the first gaia Dragoon. It's basically just Salamalyon in purple with a bit chip which shows Gaia Dragoon.
Bakuten henkei Gaia Dragoon is not the first gaia Dragoon. It's basically just Salamalyon in purple with a bit chip which shows Gaia Dragoon.
And without a figure, which makes it not a hidden spirit 
good news i may b e getting a vesuvian g later on so ill test see if thats any good. Its another ultra rare hard to find beyblade so i doubt it got any testing
Anyone tested rushing boar AR?it has lot of spikes anc looks compact..might have some potential..
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Rushing-...ht=rushing read this it basically dsays it doesnt work that well
Can someone explain Takara Zeus' Engine Gear mechanism to me, I've searched and looked and I can't find a clear explanation other than "it's got bearings yo".
If so, would the Metal Grip CEW give you something similar to a zombie? I've found it's not super aggro (though Dranzer GT's EG can really help keep it stationary), and as beywiki says, this isn't exactly unusual. I'd figure that weight and grip at the base would give it great grip and a pretty steady area, and if it has bearings, it'd improve the already not-abysmal stamina.
Am I correct? And as I said, can someone take me through the mechanism?
If so, would the Metal Grip CEW give you something similar to a zombie? I've found it's not super aggro (though Dranzer GT's EG can really help keep it stationary), and as beywiki says, this isn't exactly unusual. I'd figure that weight and grip at the base would give it great grip and a pretty steady area, and if it has bearings, it'd improve the already not-abysmal stamina.
Am I correct? And as I said, can someone take me through the mechanism?
Great Thread 
I'm an enthusiast of Plastic Generation
I've read the OP with the list of the Tier,but why we don't write a Tier made of combo?
I'm an enthusiast of Plastic Generation
I've read the OP with the list of the Tier,but why we don't write a Tier made of combo?
I've considered doing it myself, however, plastics aren't as easily defined by a list or formula as mfb.
I personally don't really want to dumb it down that much, but I can give it a shot (I often write lists when bored).
The huge number of balance combo's doesn't help, either.
I personally don't really want to dumb it down that much, but I can give it a shot (I often write lists when bored).
The huge number of balance combo's doesn't help, either.
(Jul. 21, 2011 1:01 PM)th!nk Wrote: Can someone explain Takara Zeus' Engine Gear mechanism to me, I've searched and looked and I can't find a clear explanation other than "it's got bearings yo".
If so, would the Metal Grip CEW give you something similar to a zombie? I've found it's not super aggro (though Dranzer GT's EG can really help keep it stationary), and as beywiki says, this isn't exactly unusual. I'd figure that weight and grip at the base would give it great grip and a pretty steady area, and if it has bearings, it'd improve the already not-abysmal stamina.
Am I correct? And as I said, can someone take me through the mechanism?
It's pretty much a Bearing SG with two Bearings. Basically, the end of the shaft is customisable with various CEWs. I don't know which one Metal Grip is, but to be honest Light Sharp, because of its low-friction material, would be the best choice anyway. However, there's no option to use it in Left Spin which reduces its use as a Zombie significantly.
I've never been a big fan of Zombies in the G/GT series since I think there are better options, but I think there are a few documented uses.
Regarding a prospective tier list, one of the things I most enjoyed over the weekend was the fact that Plastics are a lot less predictable. I don't know if that's because we know less about them, but unexpected results were quite frequent; I think a tier list would be quite difficult to write.
I agree with you,but personally the beauty of Plastic Generation is that you could make competitive combo thanks the great choice of components!
Don't want to go OT but even if i play competitive with MF,i've never been happy of them. Too poor customization on over 100 models.
Plastics are better because they've evolved in the time and each model gave to the precedent a new way of customization!
The work is hard,but i think (my dear th!nk xD) that to give honor to plastic generation,we must write a Tier list making combo
Yes it's difficult,but we're a community and your work is my work,so if someone want to help me,i'll be glad!
If not,i'll do it by myself :p!
Don't want to go OT but even if i play competitive with MF,i've never been happy of them. Too poor customization on over 100 models.
Plastics are better because they've evolved in the time and each model gave to the precedent a new way of customization!
The work is hard,but i think (my dear th!nk xD) that to give honor to plastic generation,we must write a Tier list making combo
Yes it's difficult,but we're a community and your work is my work,so if someone want to help me,i'll be glad!
If not,i'll do it by myself :p!
Ahh, totally forgot the right-spin lock. I was thinking of Customise Grip (dragoon GT's CEW), because mine is slow, I was thinking a wolborg 2 style defense combo. Of course, yeah, I forgot the right spin lock
There is relatively little info on the EG metagame in general, I guess because HMS came out so soon, and they weren't all that useful, but still, it's a little irksome at times, ahah.
As for the tier list, basically what I figured. I mean, I'm still KOing zombies with an extended SG Jumping Base in left spin, ahahah. At best, a tier list could only serve as a rough guide.
There is relatively little info on the EG metagame in general, I guess because HMS came out so soon, and they weren't all that useful, but still, it's a little irksome at times, ahah.
As for the tier list, basically what I figured. I mean, I'm still KOing zombies with an extended SG Jumping Base in left spin, ahahah. At best, a tier list could only serve as a rough guide.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. I found it difficult to explain it, but your example is bang on, haha.
I think there are a few gems from the EG series for sure, like Eight Spiker, Triple Tiger and Wolborg 4's Base. I think the concept of EG tarnished the entire series though, because let's face it, engines which don't work particularly well in a spinning top is a dumb idea.
I just found out that Dragoon GT's CEW is in fact, weirdly called Metal Grip so apologies there, haha.
I think there are a few gems from the EG series for sure, like Eight Spiker, Triple Tiger and Wolborg 4's Base. I think the concept of EG tarnished the entire series though, because let's face it, engines which don't work particularly well in a spinning top is a dumb idea.
I just found out that Dragoon GT's CEW is in fact, weirdly called Metal Grip so apologies there, haha.
Yeah, I know right
That said, I've had some thoughts:
Galaxy: I also fully agree with your post. I personally haven't touched my MFB since Sunday, though I owe people testings. They're just a pale imitation, so formulaic, and dull.
Might be worth doing up a draft list in the Beywiki section, maybe? That way we can all contribute. We'd want to define the combo's a bit better than just Attack/Defence/Endurance/Balance. We'd need to note out Upper and Smash, OHKO combo's, Compacts, Zombies, Weight and Grip Based defence, and so on. And then there's the Spiral Change Base spin stealer, that isn't really a zombie, but it's quite a unique thing, and it IS actually versatile enough to be top-tier, methinks.
It may be easier to choose the categories first and fill in suitable parts (and note parts that only work in combination with others), instead of using the "formula" layout we use for MFB. Maybe more like Ultrablader's Parts Tier List for MFB...
Of course, that does mean finding a category for everything, I mean, look how many people were blown away by Driger V2+10 Heavy or whatever on Sunday. What would we call that? It's not exactly a standard upper attack combo because it wins by OS. I mean, we could just call it "Balance", but that's really not doing it justice.
We'd have to make it very obvious it's not set-in-stone, to be sure, but even then, it's a bit tough.
That said, I've had some thoughts:
Galaxy: I also fully agree with your post. I personally haven't touched my MFB since Sunday, though I owe people testings. They're just a pale imitation, so formulaic, and dull.
Might be worth doing up a draft list in the Beywiki section, maybe? That way we can all contribute. We'd want to define the combo's a bit better than just Attack/Defence/Endurance/Balance. We'd need to note out Upper and Smash, OHKO combo's, Compacts, Zombies, Weight and Grip Based defence, and so on. And then there's the Spiral Change Base spin stealer, that isn't really a zombie, but it's quite a unique thing, and it IS actually versatile enough to be top-tier, methinks.
It may be easier to choose the categories first and fill in suitable parts (and note parts that only work in combination with others), instead of using the "formula" layout we use for MFB. Maybe more like Ultrablader's Parts Tier List for MFB...
Of course, that does mean finding a category for everything, I mean, look how many people were blown away by Driger V2+10 Heavy or whatever on Sunday. What would we call that? It's not exactly a standard upper attack combo because it wins by OS. I mean, we could just call it "Balance", but that's really not doing it justice.
We'd have to make it very obvious it's not set-in-stone, to be sure, but even then, it's a bit tough.
There's little info on the EG metagame cause there probably wasn't one . Like <3 said most of the engine bass has no proper uses and were outclassed by existing parts so know one really used them and continued using the combos and parts which were good and well known. Also this site didn't operate when they were being released so there really won't really be any evidence since most of the testing of parts and combos was done by the time this site was made. You'd have to look back at the older sites which the veterans on here would have gone on like OTC and whatnot. I'm not sure if they're even open anymore. Also there is a tier list for plastics but it only lists whole beys and not combos.
That's more of a "what to buy" list, and even it honestly needs a fair bit of elaboration on WHY these things are or are not worthwhile.
@th!nk:
I agree.
Also my thought was to give categories, as you said,and then do a lot of tests to give a competitive list of Plastic Generation from Tier 1 to Tier 3 ,i thought.
For Beys as Driger V2,that yes,also in my opinion is one of the best uncustomized Beys ever done in Plastic Generation,i think we could do a category named "Uncostumized" or something like that xD,putting in Bey like Galeon Attacker,Driger V2,Driger S and so on,that are high tier Beys even without customs on them
Then we can create for each category a sub-category for the layer system,but maybe it should be done as a second pass of the project.
Yes,we can create it for Beywiki,but first of all i think we need a proper Thread,like this, to discuss of our tests,or create a Thread in BeyWiki project to talk about it,but i guess it's not a good idea,because in that section there are a lot of workers on MFB articles.
I agree.
Also my thought was to give categories, as you said,and then do a lot of tests to give a competitive list of Plastic Generation from Tier 1 to Tier 3 ,i thought.
For Beys as Driger V2,that yes,also in my opinion is one of the best uncustomized Beys ever done in Plastic Generation,i think we could do a category named "Uncostumized" or something like that xD,putting in Bey like Galeon Attacker,Driger V2,Driger S and so on,that are high tier Beys even without customs on them
Then we can create for each category a sub-category for the layer system,but maybe it should be done as a second pass of the project.
Yes,we can create it for Beywiki,but first of all i think we need a proper Thread,like this, to discuss of our tests,or create a Thread in BeyWiki project to talk about it,but i guess it's not a good idea,because in that section there are a lot of workers on MFB articles.
(Jul. 21, 2011 1:57 PM)th!nk Wrote: That's more of a "what to buy" list, and even it honestly needs a fair bit of elaboration on WHY these things are or are not worthwhile.
That's not the aim of a tier list though. It doesn't need to elaborate why. It just needs to list things in an order of best to worst. Also even if it's not perfect it's still a tier list which in general is correct but it's just not detailed enough.