Played around with an FACB Zombie today (seeing as I'm considering making it my main zombie combo).
Combo is:
AR: Twin Horn
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Neo Left SG
SG Casings: SG (Full Auto Clutch) Casings
SG Shaft: SG (Full Auto Clutch) Shaft
Bearing: one of my better Shielded Ball Bearings
BB: Full Auto Clutch Base

Some notes from a few things I tried with the above combo
-SCB (Sonokong, right spin, wide survivor, sk Tiger Defenser) weak launched can be difficult to KO, but this is mostly due to FACB being hard to control. If you can reliably launch FACB at full strength without it self KOing, you would likely win a match.
HOWEVER, there's a big downside
-The combo has really poor defense.
Not SCB poor, but still poor. As in, a standard driger s compact would give you trouble even with weak launching, and because of spin velocity's role in Force Smash, anything touting Smash Turtle (ie Weight Defense on Customize metal Change, Force Smash combo) is going to give you a pretty rough time even if you weak launch (and you have to weak launch) - the former not reliably but enough that if I was using the weight combo in a tournament I would not be giving up.

Might play around with wide defense some, but that had trouble with my Circle Survivor combo IIRC, so I think I'll stick with a conventional zombie (damn shame too - between twin horn, the base, red wide survivor, my red vulpace bit chip and some silver neo left casings I had a pretty decent color scheme happening!) Also a shame because if it weren't so easy to KO, the skill required to use it well would be a really neat thing for plastics.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

How good is Upper Dragoon for weight based defence? Beywiki says it is but i've never tried it. Mainly because I thought the massive spikes on the three wings would too detrimental to make it good for weight based defence.

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On SG Metal Ball Base, which is the only base I've tried it on now I think about it, I don't like it even a little bit, too much recoil in the spikes and gaps. However, Mc Frown liked it a lot, so I would hesitate to say it isn't worth a shot, maybe I just don't use it well.
I haven't tried it on Customize MCB however, might give it a shot but I don't think the base is aggressive enough to justify using that over Smash Turtle (given how perfect ST is for the application).

Sat down with two of the new AR's I mentioned, the two that worked.
Corona Saber is pretty darned great in right, unsurprisingly it has a fair bit of recoil, and mixes smash with upper (the width helps it get under stuff), and beholder was right about it being very similar to Whale Crusher, it has a bit more smash and a little more recoil (and neither are really worth using in left). However, it's still not as strong as the Dragon Breaker setups (I doubt there's anything that will surpass those now honestly), and has more recoil than I'd like for grip base (using one of my heavy 10 Wides (about equal to wide defense in weight) instead of wide defense seemed to help with the recoil slightly, at the cost of speed (though with the weight of a large AR this is pretty negligible - hurts a bit more for lighter things).
It also has particularly audible wind resistance when launched hard LOL.
Haven't tried it on CGB but Wide AR's rarely do well on that, and you'd sacrifice a lot of what makes it worthwhile (the upper/upward smash) to do that. It is however unsurpassed in MAJESTY.

________
EDIT: Did some experimentation with conventional upper setups. The standard is 10H/HMC/Storm Grip Base - Corona Saber is significantly less effective than Whale Crusher here, too much rotational recoil and from watching it more closely, a lot of the upward-hitting is likely from Upward Smash. This is supported by a drastic improvement in performance when switching to Wide Defense (even in comparison to Whale Crusher which also benefits greatly from the increase in movement speed).
________

Delta Wave (Orca Diver) again impressed me, it does have a bit of recoil (I think it's mostly rotational recoil rather than conventional but I am not sure yet), and surprising power (I'm still not sure how, would've thought the six contact points were all too outward facing, but I can't argue with what it's doing). It's a lot more sturdily built than I thought it would be, so I'm not overly worried about breakage.

However it's kinda hard to say I'm sure of this as I think my cross griffon might be past it. It's not doing much at all to things it used to KO reliably (MBB compacts eg), though the violence of the hits is still there for sure (i.e. the Bit Chip Space Program continues to thrive), the actual power just isn't. That said, I'm not going to use my black one to confirm this and I'm near broke so I won't have a new one any time soon. The upper of Triple Wing, Upper Claw and Triple Tiger tend to alter results a bit, too, but I did use them to get a rough idea of where these AR's want to be at as well.

But, overall, if you suddenly decide hey screw keeping rare tops mint or perhaps want to get a competitive edge over a collector by making them tear up a little, then these two are probably fine choices.

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Gave Upper Dragoon a shot on CMCB. Cross Griffon/Wide Defense/Grip base is able to beat the stamina out of it whether the weight defender used wide defense or 10 heavy (more consistently than Smash Turtle because the force smash of that helps stop the opponent earlier), but it is still hard to KO even with wide defense. Haven't had success trying to upper Tiger Defenser/10H/Metal Ball Base, but attackers sometimes manage to ramp themselves off it, though it's not that common and KO's as a result even less so. Then again, smash turtle isn't super reliable against MBB (it needs to be launched so that it stays in place but also really strong to stand a fair chance), both of these being due to MBB being able to resist toppling at extreme angles/right itself very quickly. Against upper attack it does slightly better but it's very, very close. Stamina wise they're all very similar, even using wide defense with upper dragoon doesn't give it a measurable advantage against TD/10H/MBB vs 10H+Smash Turtle.
I strongly suspect that Smash Turtle is still more versatile overall as its force smash has an effect against most things, whereas Upper Dragoon's upper attack is quite limited in what it affects. However to confirm this would require a large battery of tests and they're both clearly competitive, so right now it's just not efficient use of my time to thoroughly analyse/compare the pair.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Thanks for the concise answer. I'll try out upper dragon myself sometime in the next few days.

I'll see how your CMCB defender balance type combo does against an ariel 2 tip combo since when I tested it I only had a reasonably worn but not illegal Grip base so that could have affected my performance against it.

Also just to check War Lion is equal to Tiger Defenser in compacts and zombie combos but no defence right?

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CMCB compacts/weight defense combos can vary depending on a number of factors for Ariel 2 tipped combos - the AR they use (TD being the most annoying to KO but lacking versatility), tip condition/launch technique with the attacker and the attackers parts/spin directions etc. Don't remember the specifics of the matchup - partially because my launch is pretty inconsistent day-to-day if I don't practice regularly (which I rarely do for obvious reasons), but the combo I use for attack with a near-mint A2 tip and decent launch handles it well IIRC.

For compacts it has less attack, so it's less versatile - but likely slightly more defense given the small weight disks (same for 10 balance circle survivor defense). Stamina/Defense with wide weight disks it's roughly the same but with the small additional risk of attackers hooking under the main AR with war lion's own SAR, or with bafflingly severe difficulty outspinning Driger V2 combos with Gaia Dragoon G's.

Probably going to stop answering many more part performance questions for a while and just work on the database thing instead, better use of time.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I've always thought the same just because it's common sense. There are lots of factors that affect results. Anyway thanks for actually testing it.

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No probs, glad you replied, lets me post these notes from the last couple of days:

Right Spin Spin Stealing Upper Attack (written yesterday):

I haven't actually done any testing on these until now, because left spin combinations are relatively rare so I doubted it would be that useful. In addition to this, the vast majority of left spin combos that are used are either attack types which SSUA is not great against in general, or spin-stealers, which will usually win an LAD battle, plus their own bearings and low-recoil profiles mean they're a little difficult for ssua to KO (free spin somewhat counters the SSUA attack method, similarly to what it does with force smash). I still need to check CGB Defensive Zombies and CGB/CBB regular zombies, only used Defense Grip Base 2 for them because it's what I had together and I didn't have much time, so I figured I'd go for worst-case scenarios. Also still haven't tried FACB on SSUA in full, again I ran out of time.

Anyway, my suspicions were basically correct however I guess it could still be useful against left spin random stuff or left spin weight defense (against which it does work), and so on. Main reason I actually checked it was to see how Triple Tiger and Upper Claw work for SSUA. Also used Upper Dragoon and Triangle Wing for comparison etc.

None of them were comparatively bad but Triple Tiger was noticeably worse – not surprising as it has the highest recoil of the three, meaning it tends to bounce away after collisions instead of keeping contact long enough for upper attack, think it had slightly less LAD but it's hard to tell. Upper Claw did quite well, though the 'mane' parts of mine are quite worn which likely lowered the recoil. Will try with a mint one tomorrow. The other two were fine, not really that different, Triangle Wing being more recoily seemed a little worse than Upper Dragoon/Upper Claw, but I doubt it'd be a truly significant difference, and upper dragoon is the benchmark so not much more to say there.


Today I played around with Mirage Goddess in right spin on grip base+wide defense. Hit hard but suffered from large recoil - OHKO-ey, basically, kinda like Corona Saber but I prefer the latter due to the upper/upwards smash etc. Again used it against Metal Ball Base (4 Balls)/10H/Tiger Defenser and didn't do a huge number of rounds, this is just for draftwork/getting impressions etc. I'll do more extensive stuff with the AR's I've mentioned before I post the database I'm working on, specially to work out whether they're truly T1 or I've gone too easy on them. Will likely split Smash AR's between regular and hyper-aggressive, which is where mirage goddess, corona saber, Dragon breaker + war bear/screw zeus will go, when I do the smash attack type page and related top tier/competitive combo list for the type. Hyper-aggressive Smash AR's would basically supplant OHKO entirely, might require using the heavier or better recoil-controlling competitive parts/not work with lighter setups but otherwise the combos are mostly identical, because anything less generally results in being outclassed by regular smash.

S'yeah, just notes really but I've had questions about Mirage Goddess a few times and the first part seemed worth mentioning.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I remember you said that OHKO is not really a thing since it's just a carp attack type so should be stop using it? However the other side of the coin is that made certain part to work that way on purpose (takara's releases make a lot more sense than people realize but only from a business sense).

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That was referring to the conventional idea of OHKO as a type, the combos considered OHKO, and what people said about them. They were right to make a distinction for more aggressive, more recoily setups, but most everything else about it was flawed resulting in them ending up outclassed by regular smash setups - vaguely correct idea, heavily flawed execution.
Note my distinction that they're a separate group of AR's for the same type for whom certain things should be kept in mind, rather than a different set of combos - that's the key thing. A lot of AR's only show their true abilities on smash setups that control their recoil, but controlling recoil without ruining aggression is not easy - some ARs really need Ariel 2's tip to shine. Of course, that raises the question of why not just go all the way to the Dragon Breaker setups if you're already using that tip, but there are various reasons why other stuff is relevant.

Also, just tried Corona Saber and Mirage Goddess (both on Grip Base+Wide Defense) against something more solid (CMCB+Tiger Defenser Compact/WBD) - Mirage Goddess has lower recoil and overall worked a bit better (though neither of them did that well - that combo has a tendency to make attackers pay for their recoil, after all (not to mention being near-immune to upper attack which is Corona Saber's distinguishing attribute), and while grip base isn't bad at handling recoil it just lacks the weight and it's very hard to fix within the 4-layer system's constraints). Of course, as I said, there's still more stuff to check etc, and I have my reasons for doing things the way I am, haha.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Oooh, testing on Mirage Goddess, one of my favorite looking ARs.

Is it any good for left spin weight based defense? I think I read somewhere it was supposed to be smash in right, defense in left. Granted, left spin Weight Based Defense sounds pretty niche.

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Like B-Daman! Go here!

That was what I tried when I got it which was ages ago (at the behest of Bluezee IIRC), though that was back before we knew about Customize Metal Change Base - all on SG Metal Ball Base. IIRC: yes it was a competitive part for it, mainly for those who use KO launching a lot due to the greater size. Would want to retest on CMCB, just in case that messes it up. You could probably find my original post by searching.

Theoretically you could use the aggression it has in right spin if you played your cards right but that'd be pretty niche and do horrible things to your defence. That also applies more to SG MBB as it's easier to get moving aggro than CMCB.

Of course, using weight based defense in left spin is a pretty odd idea in general, or at least was when SG Metal Ball was the thing due to its horrible LAD. Perhaps CMCB will help a little as it has some LAD, but I've still never liked being in opposite spin against most opponents (seeing as weight defense is very close to being a balance type thing and often gets used as such) with a weight defense setup as they don't handle destabilisation too well and opposite spin destabilisation occurs. Not to mention that Force Smash doesn't do much in opposite spin so smash turtle would struggle to be of use.

But yeah I'll give that a shot next chance I get, have to for this database thing anyway. Probably give Upper Dragoon a shot in left too while I'm at it..

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Okay tried some stuff:

Left Spin Weight Based Defense with CMCB+Defense Ring needs to use wide defense to not get outspun by some Grip Base and Left-Spin SG Metal Flat Base (Gaia Dragoon V Version) Combos (that's the proper name for SGMF2 btw) . Even then it's not certain - and Mirage Goddess struggles a lot more than more conservative choices due to it's dimensions/rotational recoil. The grip base combo I used was Cross Griffon/10 Wide (wide defense weight)/Grip Base, as well as wide defense later on (10W does fine when the weight defender uses 10h, but not well v wide defense). SGMF2 combo was Flash Leopard 2 AR/Wide Defense/Neo Left SG MG Core/SGMF2. FWIW though, mirage goddess does have very low regular recoil, and when moving fast it can KO opposing attackers pretty nicely, as expected, so I would still consider it competitive, it's more the weakness of Weight Defense in left spin that is an issue, and that depends more on the opponent.

Also, you know how I've mentioned triple wing hooking under SAR-capable AR's and landing extremely strong hits? Well I was wondering why the SGMF2 combo was KOing Scissor Attacker/Wide Defense/Neo Left HMC/Defense Ring/CMCB a whole lot (especially when it didn't do so against the same combo with 10H) - turns out that at that height matchup, the contact points of FL2's AR, despite not having much reach, can still quite easily sandwich themselves between Scissor Attacker and Wide Defense which results in violent KO's - checked that by simulating a collision (read 'moving the tops in slow motion with my hands in a stadium like they move when in battle'). Always thought the gap could be a weak point for Scissor Attacker. Still, this kinda thing only happens with specific height matchups generally, and scissor attacker is pretty well protected in left against right spin opponents, so I doubt it's too much of a threat in general, but still worth mentioning.

Oh also it seems like there's literally nothing that will stop Cross Griffon breaking the corners of Tornado Attack - Double-layering AND reinforcement with newspaper, etc... It's up to pure luck how long you have til it or something else eventually cracks a corner.
Glad I had the foresight to put my less-good one on the top rather than my good one I had been using previously, seeing as cross griffon tore a chunk straight out of a previously untouched wall corner. Then again, that only means I staved off having no tournament-legal tornado attacks slightly longer. Will probably end up continuing to use this rig, and taping over the corners (including affixing the chunk in place from both sides). As much as that technically invalidates tests and so on, it's that or I quickly end up with stadia in conditions that would actually significantly affect results because of holes in the corners of each wall (I have a lot of stuff involving attack types to do). Might also give BB-10 another shot, seeing as the 'ideal' meta has changed a bit (particularly in terms of defense being a little too strong), but my BB-10 isn't in legal condition either, due to that crack (though IIRC Hazel mentioned I could tape it from behind and it'd still be passable for testing).

EDIT: Also worked out why Triple Attacker's non-Spike wings don't hit as hard as Triple Wing, despite having basically identical angles/range with pointed contact points instead of round ones (which in theory should help focus hits more). Just took a better look at one of mine and noticed that all the wear is on the outside diagonals of the wingtips, and the tips themselves are still sharp, not dulled from contact. It's hitting with that face instead of the point, which both increases recoil and lowers power by significant amounts. Helps explain a little more about contact points and AR design to me, at least (probably would've been able to figure that out a lot faster if I had any aptitude for physics but oh well).
It's a real shame though, Triple Attacker would've been a great AR even if they'd just left the contact point shape the same as triple wing, let alone actually improved on it.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

I freakin love this thread

Seriously though, this is like my favorite thread on here lol.

Why Panther Head over Eight Spiker? Is it better?

Tornado Attacks crack so fast. Mine wasn't tourney legal literally two days after I got it. Granted, I did give Cross Griffon a lot of work in there. Any good ways to reinforce them?(I'm thinking about buying another)

I actually find BB-10 to be half decent. Attack has a better chance of KOing defensive stuff from what I've seen. I actually use BB-10 when I'm just playing around with stuff most of the time.

Also, sorry to give you another request, but... could you try Scissor Attacker out? I was KOing Defensive Zombies and Weight Based Defense on SG MF2 or SG Metal Flat(GDV Ver.). Granted, most of my tests were in BB-10, but it still did pretty decent against Weight Based Defense in the 10 or so rounds I did in TA.

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Like B-Daman! Go here!

It's nice to have other people responding, haha.

Because the combo (bar the weight disk, of course) was pre-assembled in my plastics containers. Panther Head and Eight Spiker are roughly equal, or were last I checked, but I prefer how panther head works, or at least did last time I compared the two.

What I did (stacking+newspaper) was about the best you can do to reinforce one legally, and while there could've been a small gap between the two stadia,my previous attempt with filling the walls of a single stadium with scrunched up newspaper, which should still allow a little give so wall contact doesn't damage tops (not to mention the effect that would have on performance - significantly more than exterior tape) also failed.
I'd suggest putting electrical/gaffers tape (as elec. tape is usually rubbery - I use at most two overlapping layers (never 3 thick at any point) to avoid affecting performance) over the corners of the walls for practice/playing around with stuff etc - anything that doesn't have to be official (ie. not tournaments or testing), as well as stuffing scrunched up newspaper into the corners underneath (hold it in place with tape or whatever IDK). Might extend the life a little but it's mostly luck. My first one lasted much longer than my other two have.

The issues I had with BB-10 were that KO's in general are more common - and that includes recoil KO's, and that the deeper dish causes a lot of height-related weirdness, a lot more destabilisation etc which in plastics tends to make results less consistent. Still, between the fragility of TA and the fact BB-10 is much more common (though for me at least, TA's are cheaper) I'm starting to think the latter might be a better choice in general for the standard stadium... Dunno, have to look into it, I've temporarily resurrected mine and while it's not legal (tape on the inside wall over the crack), it should be enough to look into it when I have time.

I tried it pretty thoroughly a while back (when I got one), and re-checked just now, scissor attacker doesn't have the range to hit past Wide Defense or 10 Wide effectively, and on 10 Balance it has some recoil problems and doesn't hit hard as a result, even on grip base. Just a pretty average AR in right for me. Dunno how you're getting it to KO stuff, perhaps I'm not launching hard enough - got a mild stomache ache - but I'm launching it the same as I have for everything else today, and only using it against Tiger Defenser/10H/Metal Ball Base, which I generally use for benchmarking, particularly for attack types.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Not to move away from think's interesting posts, but I noticed something rather strange with a couple of my wds today (I'll have pictures up tomorrow probably), it appears a couple of them have begun to almost disintegrate, granted they are ten ish years old at this point, but all of a sudden on two or three of them I started knowing this whitish, almost powdery rough layer of stuff on them that I have no idea how it got there... Has anyone else seen anything like this? (and yes, I know they are real)

Not to move away from think's interesting posts, but I noticed something rather strange with a couple of my wds today (I'll have pictures up tomorrow probably), it appears a couple of them have begun to almost disintegrate, granted they are ten ish years old at this point, but all of a sudden on two or three of them I started knowing this whitish, almost powdery rough layer of stuff on them that I have no idea how it got there... Has anyone else seen anything like this? (and yes, I know they are real)

For future reference, questions go in plastics Q&A. But seeing as I learnt some useful stuff from it (such as why some of my weight disks are like this), I won't bother with the bureacracy:

The experiences I've had of weight disks being like that (never my own* - always from other sellers, some consistently) mirror this, which I suspect is what's happened to yours. Could just be from the air being too moist or whatever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_storage_stain
The page mentions the surface needing to be fresh, but the symptoms are dead on and weight disks are made of a zinc alloy so that's probably it. Don't think I had much success cleaning it with soap+water+a cloth, but I vaguely recall managing to polish a piece that had that issue back to shininess with very significant effort, with the usual brasso and cloth method. Guess a wire brush like it suggests would work, wonder if we have one anywhere - heck knows the look and the texture of these weight disks bugs me enough that I'd spend a few hours on it.

That's a lot better than my original suspicion, which was Zinc Pest (though I forgot that's extremely uncommon now, and none of the WD's that are like that which I've used would've lasted a battle), which was what I was trying to find the name for when I stumbled onto whiterust/'wet storage stain'.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Heavy vs 10 Heavy comparative battles.

Ultra wanted me to test whether Heavy was better than Ten Heavy. I considered it a waste of time because I'd tried them before pretty thoroughly because Heavy has a more compact weight distro and is still quite heavy, but I always found it inferior.
He insisted, so here are the tests. It should be noted that I expected 10H to do better, so there's the possibility of confirmation bias, however to the best of my knowledge there was no interference. (Keep in mind this will be the case with a lot of people's tests, I just like to state it because I have to justify the psych units I didotherwise I worry about it.)

The tests are as follows – first, a mirror match between the two on compacts. I used semi-flat base because its behaviour is more consistent than a change tip, and because I had at least two of them in mint condition. The AR's are of identical molds, though one is missing all of the mini-bitchip holders, while the other is missing two. That was the best I could do. Part weights are included, the weight disks are both pretty normal for the disk they are, the HMC's were the two closest I had, etc. I will do 20 rounds, swapping weight disks half way, as well as additional rounds at the end of each 10 rounds as 're-do's' of any KO's, using the conditions for that round (for who launches first and what parts each bey had). No bitchips are used.
The second and third tests are matches against attack. I will do 10 rounds with 10 Heavy, 20 rounds with 6 Heavy, and then another 10 rounds with 10 Heavy, using a second base for the last twenty rounds to negate wear etc and hopefully that'll keep things mostly equal. I'll be aiming to keep my launch as consistent as possible.

Compacts: (No bitchip)
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: iVar
SG: Neo Right HMC
BB: SG Semi Flat

Attack combo: (has a bitchip)
AR: Triple Tiger
WD: Wide Defense
BB: Grip Base

Weights (calibrated scale)
Tiger Defenser 1: 3.63g
Tiger Defenser 2: 3.67g
Neo Right HMC1: 8.77g
Neo Right HMC2: 8.81g
SG Semi Flat 1: 4.57g
SG Semi Flat 2: 4.47g

Ten Heavy: 16.10g
Heavy: 15.00g

10 heavy starts on parts numbered 1, launches first R1. Both straight shot.

10H vs 6H Compact Mirror Match
(X v VI)

Detailed Results (Click to View)

1. XOS
2. VIOS
3. VIKO
4. XOS
5. XOS
6. XOS
7. VIOS
8. XOS
9. XOS
10. XOS
11. VIOS
12. XOS
13. VIOS
14. VIOS
15. VIKO
16. XOS
17. XOS
18. XOS
19. VIOS
20. XOS

KO Redoes:
3: XOS
15: VIOS

Notes: A lot of the matches involved destabilisation. 6H loses a lot of stamina if it gets hit, and seems less stable. 10H seems more aggressive. If 10H upper attacks, it remains stable, whereas if 6H does, 6H seems to suffer from destabilisation – indicates to me that 10H is maintaining RPM better. R3 was a lucky KO from the TR. R20 was a lategame KO where they were both rolling around violently from destabilization (pretty common lategame scenario, but KO's from it aren't that common).

Results:
10H: 12/20 = 60% (all OS)
6H: 8/20 = 40% (6OS, 2KO)

KO's Redone Results
10H: 13/20 = 65%
6H: 7/20 = 35%

Vs Attack Battles
(start with part 1 parts, bases swapped according to intro paragraph).
Do note that I didn't consistently record the way things won, so just because I didn't state it doesn't mean a round didn't involve upper, I just got tired of noting things down and even at the start it was only when it was particularly noticeable.

10H Compact Vs ATK
(X vs A)

Detailed Results (Click to View)

1. XOS
2. AKO (upper)
3. AOS (upper like mad, wow)
4. AKO
5. AOS (upper)
6. XOS
7. AKO
8. AKO
9. AKO
10. XOS
(Swapped to 6H Rounds Here, came back after that was done, with base 2)
11. XOS
12. AKO
13. XOS
14. AKO
15. XOS
16. XOS
17. XOS
18. XOS
19. AKO
20. XKO (wut)
Draws: R15OS

Notes: 10H seems to do better when destabilised – scrapes later, and the attacker seems to come off less stable than v 6h from collisions where both are destabilised.

Results:
Attacker: 10/20 = 50% (8KO, 1OS)
10H Compact: 10/20 = 50% (9OS, 1KO)

6h Compact vs ATK
(VI v A)

Detailed Results (Click to View)

1. VIOS
2. AOS
3. AOS
4. AKO (Upper)
5. AOS
6. VIOS
7. AKO (Upper)
8. AKO
9. AOS
10. VIOS (very close)
(Swapped to base 2 here)
11. AOS
12. VIOS
13. AKO
14. VIOS
15. AKO
16. AOS
17. VIOS
18. AKO (Compact bounced off two walls and out LOL)
19. AOS
20. AKO
Draws:R2OS

Notes: Attacker seemed to struggle to make contact here, just unlucky with the launches I guess, at least early on

Results:
Attacker: 14/20 = 70% (7KO, 7OS)
6H Compact: 6/20 = 30% (all OS)


Do make sure to look at the full results because for the first 10 rounds, 10H was doing the same. The second set which happened 20 rounds later, it had a streak of wins. I redid round 15 of the 10H set twice, by the way, because the first time I felt I didn't launch the attacker at full strength – it had fallen off my launcher three times in a row so I was kinda surprised when it didn't that time, and it put me off. The redo ended in a draw and the redo of the redo ended up in the same result as the first time.

Overall, it's unsurprisingly relatively close, but 10H still seems to be the better WD to me – the fact it was much harder for the attacker to destabilise and OS speaks for its superior stability, which is a very useful attribute, and the slightly better stamina is useful, seeing as it's not coming at a huge trade off.
I will note that 10H seemed, looking at the results, to do a little worse in terms of being KO'd more often, however the difference is very small and the circumstances in the compact v compact battle could likely have gone the other way too.

6H is probably still competitive but I certainly don't like it.


Oh and I used triple tiger because my cross griffon is sucking at the moment and because compacts should generally do okay against upper attack (though SG Semi Flat is comparatively slightly-less-good IIRC).

PS: SG Semi Flat sux lol

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

That was the entire point of the tests. I knew 6 heavy would be top tier for compacts but that 10 heavy would only be slightly better but I needed proper tests to prove it.

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That was the entire point of the tests. I knew 6 heavy would be top tier for compacts but that 10 heavy would only be slightly better but I needed proper tests to prove it.

Do you want me to quote the PM here for your original hypothesis - you claimed 6H would be "better". Your revised-post-test hypothesis that 'oh i just forgot recoil i knew it all along' is also kinda sketchy, given I'm pretty sure I actually mentioned that in the discussion.

I wouldn't have wasted an hour and a half reconfirming exactly what I already know and have said everywhere for over a year now had that been the hypothesis I was presented with.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Cheers for the info about CGB vs CBB th!nk.

A real shame about Triple Attacker's under performance. I had really hoped it could usurp the ubiquitous Triple Wing.

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Buying
Jiraiya MS
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I much prefer triple tiger to triple wing anyway, not to mention cross griffon and a bunch of the hyper aggro AR's (might even prefer Mirage Goddess on grip base vs most things tbh).

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

That was the entire point of the tests. I knew 6 heavy would be top tier for compacts but that 10 heavy would only be slightly better but I needed proper tests to prove it.

Do you want me to quote the PM here for your original hypothesis - you claimed 6H would be "better". Your revised-post-test hypothesis that 'oh i just forgot recoil i knew it all along' is also kinda sketchy, given I'm pretty sure I actually mentioned that in the discussion.

I wouldn't have wasted an hour and a half reconfirming exactly what I already know and have said everywhere for over a year now had that been the hypothesis I was presented with.

How about you read my reply before making me look like a moron? I knew you would most likely know. I wanted to you to do the tests for the benefit of others since for anyone other than you this is a big deal.

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That was the entire point of the tests. I knew 6 heavy would be top tier for compacts but that 10 heavy would only be slightly better but I needed proper tests to prove it.

Do you want me to quote the PM here for your original hypothesis - you claimed 6H would be "better". Your revised-post-test hypothesis that 'oh i just forgot recoil i knew it all along' is also kinda sketchy, given I'm pretty sure I actually mentioned that in the discussion.

I wouldn't have wasted an hour and a half reconfirming exactly what I already know and have said everywhere for over a year now had that been the hypothesis I was presented with.

How about you read my reply before making me look like a moron? I knew you would most likely know. I wanted to you to do the tests for the benefit of others since for anyone other than you this is a big deal.

Okay so you just wasted my time because you think you know what I should be doing with it better than I do - that's wonderful, but I respectfully disagree - especially as you know right now I don't want to spend much time on anything but the database because I specifically asked you to stop sending me part performance questions so I could work on it. And no, your original hypothesis was that 6H would be better, and I don't see what reply I could've missed that changed that that came before you got the results.

PM Title: Test this

Based on the fact that six heavy is heavier and more compact I think that it should be better than Ten heavy for compacts. Can you test this please. It makes sense. The only reason everyone latched onto Ten heavy is because better than eight heavy and is just as common.
Alsoit's obvious that Voltaic Ape's SP is flat out best for zombies since it's more compact and has better weight distribution than all the others. The others were designed to be for defensive zombies and defence and attack types.

And after the ensuing discussion wherein I explained why 10H worked better (as well as pointing out it was the heavier one, whereafter you adjusted the hypothesis to 6H being 'equal or better') you still refused to accept it and wanted tests etc.


What I'm asking is that you have more respect for others, their time and their decisions on how to use it - same as I was saying last night via PM - and that when they do use it as you ask and it does turn out it was a waste of their time, you don't then turn and say yes you knew that already (also, a cursory 'thankyou' (or 'sorry' if you've wasted their time) wouldn't go astray either).

I'm stating this here to explain the tone of my posts to others, and it would be better to respond via PM. If you feel you need to respond publicly, then I'll likely just respond to that via PM.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Hmm.... I'm not too surprised to see Ten Heavy beat (Six) Heavy, but nice tests anyways th!nk!

By the way, with the Scissor Attacker thing, there could be a couple differences that may have affected our results.

1. I was using a Beylauncher with plastic prongs(all my Right Spin EZ launchers skip)

2. My Weight Based Defender used Tiger Defenser, Wide Defense, an MG Core, and SG Metal Ball with two metal balls. I just received Smash Turtle in the mail two hours ago, so I'll give that a go too.

3. I mainly used BB-10.

Oh, another random question: I just got a Draciel S(my second), but unfortunately, it only had one metal ball with it. This leaves me with a problem- I have three metal balls. Should I use all three in the base, which will cause imbalance but most likely more defense, or two, so I can actually OS some stuff?

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Like B-Daman! Go here!

That might have been enough to do it, maybe - that defense combo is pretty dodgy (smash turtle will only make things worse btw, force smash AR without an HMC usually = getting uppered/destabilised by everything), and the base is recoily, though I wasn't using anything with amazing defense myself so it's still kinda weird.

Use two. Wobbliness of 3 does bad bad things for your defense too.

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th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List