Phantom (Stamina Mode) Fox 230MF

Dual · Feb. 19, 2013 3:26 AM

Ok, first, this is my first testing thread, so please feel free to correct the mistakes I make, as I know I will make them.
This combo was based off of Inguilt's Phantom Hades 90MF. What I noticed is that that combo did badly against attack types, and thus, I began testing different Phantom MF combos that could do well against attack types. I found that 160 did well against Variares S130R2F, but once I got Flash, I found 230 did better. This combo requires different launches depending on the type you are facing, and sometimes the opponents bey itself. Sliding shots, Tornado stalling, and normal launching are used against various combos. While this combo's main purpose had been to tornado stall defense types and sliding shoot attack types.

Parts Explanation-
Normal Face- As in Inguilt's combo, its used to keep the weight focused on the outside.
Fox- I am at a horrible lack of clear wheels, so I used Fox. It was still able to perform decently.
Phantom- Phantom's stamina and good weight helps this combo serve its main purpose. It can circle around the stadium against defense types and still have the stamina to win.
230- After testing with tracks ranging from 85-230, 230 fared the best against attack combos. It also helps when defending against low track beyblades.
MF- MF gives this combo incredible versatility. When facing a defense type, the combo can tornado stall and have the stamina to win. When facing stamina types it has the attack to KO. When facing attack types, doing a slight sliding shot will allow for this combo to with stand attacks, though it will be destabilized occasionally.

Launch Techniques-
Against defense types, simply tornado stall. Against stamina types, sliding shoot, against attack types, only do a slight sliding shoot, so that the bey doesn't tip to much, resulting in destabilization. For more detailed information, check Inguilt's thread.

Tests-
Standard Procedure

vs. Attack

Spoiler (Click to View)

vs. Anti-attack

Spoiler (Click to View)

Vs. Spin Equalizer

Spoiler (Click to View)

I will try to have defense and stamina tests up soon, but I don't own the parts, so I need to get together with my friend. Any tests would be greatly appreciated! Also, I don't have many parts, so my testing is really limited until I meet up with my friend. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
Wow that took awhile. Well, now I know how hard all the testers work to make these threads.

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

HDSK · Feb. 19, 2013 3:32 AM

awesome test, IMO this combo will not do well with Defence, with Stamina it will win but it will be OS a few times.... See if right

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View All Faces · Feb. 19, 2013 4:51 AM

I find it very very very very very hard to believe that this combo got 100% against flash, and its new, I don't care how worn your r2f is, anybody can get a KO with a new flash no matter your experience.
And how did this out spin reviser dragoon none of this makes sense

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Dual · Feb. 19, 2013 4:55 AM

I know, I didn't expect people to believe it, and when it happened, I didn't believe it myself. That's why I'd like other people to test the combo against flash.

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

th!nk · Feb. 19, 2013 4:56 AM

Diablo TR145R2F should've KO'd it consistently as well. No clue what you're doing, could you post some reference tests with your flash combo against a well known defense combination please? Though honestly, those results are just ridiculous, I wish I had a working beylauncher to show it...

Also, tests against MF-M Duo Cygnus/Cancer/Hades 230MB, and 145-height duo stamina combos would also be appreciated.

Lastly, 20 rounds is the bare minimum. Seriously, I'm getting really sick of seeing 10 rounds done especially in cases like the flash battles here where the results are suspicious to the point even you were surprised. Why would you think that is enough?!

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

View All Faces · Feb. 19, 2013 4:56 AM

If I get Phantom soon, I'll test this. I have a hard time believing the results against Flash.

Not saying your lieing, it's just strange.

still posi

Dual · Feb. 19, 2013 4:59 AM

(Feb. 19, 2013 4:56 AM)th!nk Wrote: Diablo TR145R2F should've KO'd it consistently as well. No clue what you're doing, could you post some reference tests with your flash combo against a well known defense combination please?

Also, tests against MF-M Duo Cygnus/Cancer/Hades 230MB, and 145-height duo stamina combos would also be appreciated.

Lastly, 20 rounds is the bare minimum. Seriously, I'm getting really sick of seeing 10 rounds done especially in cases like the flash battles here...

Ok, I'll test against Duo when I get the chance. And Sorry bout only doing 10 rounds, it was just winning consistently. I'll add ten more rounds to the two tests that lack them.

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

th!nk · Feb. 19, 2013 5:03 AM

It doesn't matter if it's winning consistently if it's a case where it doesn't make sense. Even the 'winning consistently' excuse is only for tests where time is scarce but information needed (i.e. Not when you have all the time in the world to post a thread for a combination) and even then ONLY where it is very obvious, like Attack v Stamina or Stamina vs an immobile defender. There's never any justification for doing it with a balance type unless you really don't have much testing time but the tests are needed urgently (again, not when you have all the time in the world to post a thread for a combination).
If people like you keep doing this, we're going to end up with even the already scarce exceptions to the 20 round rule (which even now aren't actually endorsed at all by staff) being completely removed and that will be a pain for everyone, just because lazy and impatient people have ruined it for everyone else.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but this sub-20 rounds thing is really getting out of hand, and there's never an excuse for it with a new combo thread.

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Dual · Feb. 19, 2013 5:07 AM

Ok, I'm sorry. I will hopefully have the ten tests for each of the ones that need them by tomorrow or the day after, but the Duo tests might not be up for awhile.

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

Raigeko13 · Feb. 19, 2013 5:30 AM

I shall do some testing on this tomorrow.

woo something i can actually test

How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

zeneo · Feb. 19, 2013 6:18 AM

Hmm,looks like this is a combo similar to my infamous(that is,doubted,)Phantom Orion 230 HF/S.
Firstly,a slow launch against Flash gives you a decent amount of chance of getting a cleansheet(given,your beylauncher is not performing well,and,you're not good at launching Flash).
Currently,I'm testing Phantom Aquario W145 MF,and it only got 35% win rate.,whereas,I got about twice the win rate against VariAres-That explains Flash's capabilities.
Also,you should've done all 20 tests

And honestly speaking,the tests against Revizer Dragooon.,I believe that you could out-spin it.
It's a pretty matter of luck when you outspin it-that happens when you tornado stall perfectly,and are able to connect with a nice amount of Smash,on top of Dragooon,which lessens the chances of spin-stealing.

Dual · Feb. 19, 2013 1:46 PM

Hmm, yah I might be doing something wrong with flash, I'm just not sure what it could be. Though the 230 track seems to "block" the attacks of flash. Or since its on an angle, only the clear wheel mainly makes contact.
I know, I've been told to add more tests and I said I would.
I had tried tornado stalling outside of the tests and I found it just didn't work.

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

Dual · Feb. 20, 2013 1:11 AM

Sorry for the double post, but I completely redid my testing with flash. Most people still probably won't believe these results, but I swear I'm not lying. I will redo the Revizer Dragooon tests later.

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

th!nk · Feb. 20, 2013 1:14 AM

I don't have fox but I do have a beylauncher, it turns out:

MF-H Flash Orion S130R2F Vs Phantom Cancer 230MF
Flash Attack, Phantom Stamina
R2F Near Mint, used very lightly, not one I would normally use (I prefer a slightly worn RF)
I'm pretty rusty, keep in mind. Someone who has actually been practicing should get better results out of flash. I also greatly prefer escolpio - if you're having cw contact then you should've tried it instead, if you have it.
Launched as instructed - I'm used to using metal tips, including MF, so there's no chance I've messed that up.
Phantom Launches First all rounds - rubber attack launches last is standard procedure
1. FKO
2. FKO
3. POS
4. FKO
5. FKO
6. FKO
7. FKO
8. PKO (Flash really self KO'd here after a hit because of R2F's condition, but I'll count it)
9. FKO
10. FKO
11. FKO
12. FKO
13. FKO
14. FKO
15. FKO
16. FKO
17. FKO
18. FKO
19. POS
20. FKO

Flash: 17/20 (17KO, 0 OS) = 85%
Phantom: 3/20 (1KO, 2 OS) = 15%
Verdict: I'm Rusty

I got clean metal-metal contact every time, flash usually only had to tap it lightly to send it out an exit.

I only now realise you didn't use an MF-H, so I'll test that as well and see how it goes. However, you obviously aren't testing well enough - you should be trying to find weaknesses in your combination, if you have something on 230 not being KO'd by an attacker your first thought should be "I'VE DONE SOMETHING HORRIBLY WRONG LET ME TRY SOMETHING ELSE".

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Dual · Feb. 20, 2013 1:18 AM

Well, thanks for the results. And unfortunately, the only other attacker I have is variares, so I can't really test against something else, if that's what you mean. I really don't know what I was doing wrong. How were you launching Phantom?

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

th!nk · Feb. 20, 2013 1:25 AM

I've edited my post with launching procedure. Trust me, I've got plenty of experience slide shooting metal flat tips.

My Flash is nowhere near new, either (honestly, I don't really know if I believe this wearing hoodoo is as big as people claim...)

Phantom's underside has always been noted for being recoily in either mode. I doubt I'm the one at fault here. I'm not having much trouble KOing it with MF-H Diablo UnicornoII BD145RF (I prefer uni2 to kerbecs, I think, I've never liked kerbecs against taller opponents), with a worn RF, and remember, I've never been that great with attack, as much as I love attack types (I'll try to do a benchmark later if I get time).

Not using an MF-H on flash is generally a really bad idea though, it's main recoil is rotational so MF-H's are good for it. It makes it more prone to self KO after being hit (or when launched badly) and less efficient overall.

By the way, might I suggest you try launching Flash so it Tornado Stalls? I didn't do it myself but I found back when I was testing MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170WF/MF that it was usually the attacker's best bet to tornado stall. In that case, Basalt also wanted to Tornado Stall to win, however phantom's underside means doing so isn't a good idea and Sliding is better. Either way, if you can, stick an MF-H on flash and TS it perhaps.

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Dual · Feb. 20, 2013 1:41 AM

Thanks for the tests th!nk, unfortunately, I don't own esolpio and my metal face is in storage. Ill also try tornado stalling. Well, I'll try and figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'll still test against defense and stamina when I get the chance.

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

th!nk · Feb. 20, 2013 1:55 AM

If I get time I'll try to do some anti attack tests , seeing as that's the only other thing I can do that is worth me testing (this would reliably beat defense and I don't have Dragooon or any ZG other than Samurai Saramanda E230ES). I'd do duo tests, but as was discussed back when I was last testing MFB, my phantom has a very much abnormally high win rate against my duo in any stamina-dependent matchup, which is reflected here (Duo Cancer AD145WD and 230MB can't OS it). However, I will say that no matter how well phantom makes contact, it can't KO them, for me at least, so you'd be losing against attack and stamina at this point most likely ('course against stamina you could end up in a matchup like my duo and phantom, haha).

However, this combo did get used at tournaments a long time ago, IIRC, at least people did use it (I definitely tried Phantom Cancer TH170MF but I didn't like it), and it has fallen from any use since then, which is probably an indicator of its viability...

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Dual · Feb. 20, 2013 1:58 AM

Thanks th!nk! Like I said, I will do duo tests, and I could also do tests against phantom w145wd, l drago guardian bd145rdf, killerken dragooon combos, and others, if the aforementioned would be relevant.

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

th!nk · Feb. 20, 2013 2:26 AM

Flash Orion S130R2F Vs Phantom Cancer 230MF
Same conditions as last test

1. FKO
2. FKO
3. FKO
4. PKO (Rebound)
5. FKO
6. PKO
7. FKO
8. FKO
9. FKO
10. FKO
11. PKO (rebound)
12. POS
13. FKO
14. FKO
15. FKO
16. FKO
17. POS
18. FKO
19. FKO
20. FKO

Flash: 15/20 (all KO)= 75%
Phantom: 5/20 (3KO, 2OS) = 25%

On a sad note, I did another couple of rounds afterwards and phantom pinched flash against a wall and now there's a large crack in my only BB-10, so I can't do any more testing Unhappy

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Dual · Feb. 20, 2013 2:33 AM

Oh jeez, that stinks. I feel bad now...

“In the course of twenty crowded years, one parts with many illusions. I did not wish to lose the early ones. Some memories are realities, and are better than anything that can ever happen again.” -Jim Burden (My Ántonia)

Raigeko13 · Feb. 20, 2013 6:17 AM

BB-10
Beylauncher

Flash Orion S130R2F vs. Phantom Fox 230MF
Phantom always launched first.

Detail Results (Click to View)

Flash: 17 (0 OS, 17 KO)
Phantom : 3 (1 OS, 2 KO)
Flash Win %: 85.0%

The two KOs were self KOs from Flash, but it would've won so it's actually like 95% lol

It was no contest.

At the request of Ingulit:

MF Vulcan Horuseus CH145R2F vs. Phantom (Stamina Mode) Fox 230MF
Phantom always launched first.

Detail Results (Click to View)

Vulcan : 11 (0 OS, 11 KO)
Phantom : 9 (7 OS, 2 KO)
Vulcan Win %: 55.0%

I tried 85 and S130 first, but 230 just shut it down (it did that to Vulcan in general) so I went up to 145. Here it was less of a contest, and contact on Vulcans side early in the match was essential for a win. If it didn't, there would be an OS. The ties are all from Phantoms recoil.

Diablo Unicorno TR145R2F vs. Phantom (Stamina Mode) Fox 230MF
Phantom always launched first.

Detail Results (Click to View)

Diablo: 16 (0 OS, 16 KO)
Phantom : 4 (3 OS, 1 KO)
Diablo Win %: 80.0%

Diablo just slapped Phantom around like a ragdoll. All Diablo had to do was make a little contact with minimum momentum and woo, there went Phantom.

I've never used my Diablo up until now, since I've only had it for a short time, but I've gotta say I love it.

How do I still have 17th most posts here...?

BeybladePants11 · Feb. 22, 2013 6:06 AM

My tests:

Equipment:
BB-10
3 Segment Grip
Beylauncher LR

MF-H Flash Orion GB145R2F vs Phantom Fox 230MF
FO: 16 Wins (All KO)
PF: 4 Wins (All OS)
All of Phantom's wins were just because of wall saves. Most of Flash's wins were just KO, and OHKO.

MF-F Death Aquario W145WD vs Phantom Fox 230MF
FO: 15 Wins (All OS)
DA: 0 Wins
I stopped at 15 rounds because Phantom might have won the rest of the rounds. I was quite impressed by this. After a long time of tornado stalling Phantom would finally make contact, and destabilize it a little to OS Aquario. Death was also the best wheel I have to make a stamina combo.

MF-H Death Aquario E230CS vs Phantom Fox 230MF
FO:10 Wins (All OS)
DA: 0 Wins
I stopped at 10 because the results were a little to obvious. Again, tornado stall, contact, Aquario dies.

MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145R2F vs Phantom Fox 230MF
FO: 2 Wins (All OS)
DK: 18 Wins (All KO)
Diablo Wins by KO, Phantom wins by OS.

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View All Faces · Feb. 22, 2013 2:00 PM

You should never stop just because it seems really obvious. A percentage has less value if you know that the denominator is much less than another percentage's.