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[Metal Fury] Jade Discussion

Sep. 21, 2012  4:56 AM
 
Ok so time for a new metal wheel! Finally Jade arrived at my stores to await pick-up so I can do some official testing!!! Yay!!! Anywho...so Jade was one of those severely hated on metal wheels because, well, it looks ridiculous without the core. It seems like the most hated on Metal Fury turn out to be the most valuable. *Ironically people hated on Jade because it lacked the core to fill in the metal wheel, but it was the lack of core that makes it as amazing as it is.

So as you probably know from the pictures an videos: Jade has 4 giant stalactites hanging down from its metal wheel with a huge gap in the middle. I have a photo if anyone wants a size reference to the gaps.

So yeah you can just about fit a dime through the gap. Which is really huge for an MFB. Obviously with this huge gap at the bottom of the metal wheel, it will only be usable on a tall track, especially with the fact that jade is completely circular on top.

Becauase this monster has such huge gaps, and unfortunately a not so huge weight, it has a god ton of smash. This is the same smash that is responsible for chucking synchrom defense combos across the room, but ya know of course this thing has got to have a god ton of recoil as well. And being as weightless as it is.....it doesn't handle it that well. Most battles end up in huge ties, or the winner is decided by who gets the wall save.

So I sort of pondered about tracks for a while and came up with E230 in the regular mode. It adds weight to the bottom of the beyblade and shifts the center of balance lower, so that it doesn't hop as much. One of the biggest downfalls with Cosmic was that it could not control the hopping. Jade on the other hand, being round and having ridiculous smash at the same time, can utilize E230 fairly well.

Now I know what you are thinking, "Are you nuts!!! E230 blocks the contact points and prevents metal contact!!!" That however, is untrue. As long as you deep bank with this combination, you will make metal wheel contact (Duo is an exception) because Jade is slightly larger than the disk. Now of course the smaller the metal wheel on BD145, the tougher it is to make contact, but most of out great defense wheels today aren't that small. Synchroms exceed BD145's disk and Duo comes pretty close. My Duo has been broken since, and a new one should be coming in the mail shortly, so I'll be sure to test when it arrives. But in the meantime, this is what I have:

MF-H Jade Cancer E230RF vs MF-L Basalt Aquario BD145CS
Jade: 13/20 (All KO)
Basalt: 7/20 (4 KO, 3 OS)

Jade Win Rate: 65%

3 Ties Redone.

This was generally, Jade's calmest matchup because basalt is a fairly small metal wheel so you need to try a bit harder to get contact. I believe Cosmic's Win Rate against Basalt was the same, mainly due to the fact that this combo has more of a weakness to smaller metal wheels paired with BD145; however, in the long run Jade does much better than Cosmic, especially against Synchroms. It also flings basalt farther. XD


MF-H Jade Cancer E230RF vs Ifraid Saramanda BD145CS
Jade: 11/20 (All KO)
Saramanda: 9/20 ( 2 OS, 7 KO)

Jade Win Rate: 55%

7 Ties Redone

Now here is where the interesting things happen. Getting even 1 KO would be surprising to me coming from such a light metal wheel, but it managed to net 11 in a game of 27 matches. Because Synchroms are larger, Jade has more of a chance to shine and show of it's potential. Basically, the beyblade that got the wall save won. Because it was so based on wall saves, I rotated the stadium after every battle. The E230 really helped it stay in the stadium more often, than a regular 230 or TH170 would and I think gave it a higher win rate, despite the loss of overly extreme aggressiveness and the overly extreme recoil that goes with it. (Even on E230 this thing goes quite berserk)

MF-H Jade Cancer E230RF vs Killerken Dragooon DF105LRF
Jade: 1/20 (All KO)
Killerken: 19/20 ( 7 OS, 12 KO)

Jade Win Rate: 5%

2 Ties Redone.

Here, I wasn't expecting any miracles. Killerken Dragooon is a boss anti-attack beyblade. The E230 did help a bit with staying in the stadium, but Dragooon would just outspin in the end.

Proof of Parts:
So overall, I feel like Jade has a ton of potential and is probably the best hasbro attack wheel overall. It's really track picky, mainly because it has so much recoil and so little weight to handle it. I really hope Zero-G will give us some new tracks to help with the recoil issue. I generally prefer 220, but TH170 is way to light so I'm kinda hoping for a track similar to Archer Gargole's only at a 220 height or somewhere in that vicinity.

Note: The RF used was from hasbro cyber pegasus, but it is worn a bit so that it is soft.
Sep. 21, 2012  5:09 AM
 
Ah, finally some tests.
Not surprised by them either, it was just as I had anticipated. So TH170 wouldn't be paired well with H-Jade? Damn.
Could you do some anyways? (Try all 3 heights, see what's best against whatever you're putting it up against )

Thanks for the tests Meow! :3
Sep. 21, 2012  5:18 AM
 
Thanks for the update on Jade. Can you compare Hasbro Jade with TT Jade??? I want to know if the TT model is better or worst like cosmic. Also, I really want to know TT Jade is even any good as well. Grin
Sep. 21, 2012  5:36 AM
 
I am skeptical that the real Jade would not get a better result in your hands with E230 too ...
Sep. 21, 2012  6:45 AM
 
(Sep. 21, 2012  5:36 AM)Kai-V Wrote: I am skeptical that the real Jade would not get a better result in your hands with E230 too ...

i beg to differ. the reason why the hasbro jade is able to conduct smash is because of the absence of the metal core, which covers up the contact points on the takara jade. therefore, even on high tracks there would be no contact points on the takara jade to deliver any smash. the reason why the hasbro jade performs better than the takara one as an attack wheel is clearly explained in his OP, imo.
Sep. 21, 2012  9:41 AM
 
Takara Jade vs Hasbro Jade test results please.
Sep. 21, 2012  9:48 AM
 
(Sep. 21, 2012  6:45 AM)slyx Wrote:
(Sep. 21, 2012  5:36 AM)Kai-V Wrote: I am skeptical that the real Jade would not get a better result in your hands with E230 too ...

i beg to differ. the reason why the hasbro jade is able to conduct smash is because of the absence of the metal core, which covers up the contact points on the takara jade. therefore, even on high tracks there would be no contact points on the takara jade to deliver any smash. the reason why the hasbro jade performs better than the takara one as an attack wheel is clearly explained in his OP, imo.

The underside of a Takara Jade is...jagged too IIRC.
Sep. 21, 2012  10:40 AM
 
Fantomu

http://beyblade.tv/images/4D/jupiter5.jpg

hmmm... from this picture it really doesn't seem to me that it's jagged. the circular nature of the core obscures the contact points on the metal frame. even if it does not totally cover the contact points, the amount of smash delivered will theoretically be reduced dramatically as the point of contact would be the underside of the core, not the "giant stalactites" as meow very aptly describes them
Sep. 21, 2012  10:50 AM
 
Ah, okay. Ingulit has found use for Jade as a force smasher though, MF-H Jade Cancer TH170RB or something along those lines. It wasn't fantastic from what I remember, but not bad.
Sep. 21, 2012  11:34 AM
 
hmmmm, how interesting! i've never read that thread before so i wouldn't know =D thanks for the information! maybe comparative tests would be good after all, just like cosmic v. big bang
Sep. 21, 2012  11:41 AM
 
Nah, wasn't a thread. Was on his blog. Meow! doesn't have a Takara Jade though, I think.
Sep. 21, 2012  11:54 AM
 
Wow the Hasrbo Jade is impressive,thanks for the tests Meow!
Sep. 21, 2012  12:06 PM
 
(Sep. 21, 2012  10:40 AM)slyx Wrote: Fantomu

http://beyblade.tv/images/4D/jupiter5.jpg

hmmm... from this picture it really doesn't seem to me that it's jagged. the circular nature of the core obscures the contact points on the metal frame. even if it does not totally cover the contact points, the amount of smash delivered will theoretically be reduced dramatically as the point of contact would be the underside of the core, not the "giant stalactites" as meow very aptly describes them

I found a clear picture: As you can see, the core blocks beys from fitting inside the gap, which is the cause of Jade's lack of smash. If anyone does have the TT Jade, I would appreciate tests in the same set-up I gave. I want to see if it even comes close to a ko.
Sep. 21, 2012  2:58 PM
 
Sorry I haven't put these up sooner Meow!. I kept forgetting them at home. I am glad I didn't start the thread though, because you have done a much better job starting it than I ever could.

Here are comparisons with 230 and all 3 heights of TH170.
BB-10
Beylauncher, Beylauncher L/R
Basalt always launched first

MF-Jade Aquario TH170R2F vs MF-Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS
Details (Click to View)
Jade - 7 wins (all KO)
Basalt - 13 wins (5 OS, 8 KO)
Jade 170 win % = 35%

It was all about who got the wall save. Jade should have gotten more KOs, but Like Meow! said, you have to deep bank to make sufficient contact with Basalt. The times Basalt won by OS were times when I didnt bank deep enough.

MF-Jade Aquario TH195R2F vs MF-Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS
Details (Click to View)
Jade - 6 wins (all KO)
Basalt - 14 wins (6 OS, 8 KO)
2 DKO, both redone
Jade 195 win % = 30%

MF-Jade Aquario TH220R2F vs MF-Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS
Details (Click to View)
Jade - 3 wins (all KO)
Basalt - 17 wins (6 OS, 11 KO)
4 ties, all redone
Jade 220 win % = 15%

The higher you get the harder it is to make contact with Basalt. And with Jade TH170 being so light, you can only bank so deep without self KOing.

MF-Jade Aquario 230R2F vs MF-Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS
Details (Click to View)
Jade - 1 win (KO)
Basalt - 10 wins (4 OS, 6 KO)
2 ties, both redone
Jade win % = 9%

Well, I apparantly did 11 tests instead of 10. Sorry for not doing 20, but I was starting to get burnt out, and I didn't want that to start affecting any results. OK, with 230 it didnt matter how deep I banked, Jade would just straight back up. This tells me that Jade seems to have amazing balance.

Meow! was a genius by selecting E230 so it would give it a different center of balance and adding more weight to the bottom. See when Jade 230 would pass by Basalt, it would make contact and kind of jump Basalt. With E230 preventing this jump, you make much better contact.
Sep. 21, 2012  5:16 PM
 
So E230 would be more what makes this good ... ?

Also, it is impossible that this same holed design is not a huge weakness to Hasbro's Jade.
Sep. 21, 2012  5:28 PM
 
(Sep. 21, 2012  5:16 PM)Kai-V Wrote: So E230 would be more what makes this good ... ?

It very well could be. I am going to try SA165 soon. For me, SA165 helped Cosmic in the same areas that E230 seems to help Jade. Also, I would like to see Meow!'s tests with TH170 since he is a freak of nature with attack types (<---meant as a compliment btw). lol


(Sep. 21, 2012  5:16 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Also, it is impossible that this same holed design is not a huge weakness to Hasbro's Jade.

I personally think that in Jade's case, it greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. Jade's smashes as hard as it recoils. Imagine Flash's smash, but in both directions. This is my personal experience.
Sep. 21, 2012  8:38 PM
 
Meow, if you could do some tests with E230 in Boost Mode, that would be great. I also request tests against a Duo defense combo.
Sep. 21, 2012  9:01 PM
 
(Sep. 21, 2012  8:38 PM)Ya Wrote: Meow, if you could do some tests with E230 in Boost Mode, that would be great. I also request tests against a Duo defense combo.

When E230 is in Boost mode, it almost completely blocks Jade's contact points. And one huge reason it is in normal mode is to shift as much weight to the bottom to help keep Jade from hopping when it makes contact.
Sep. 21, 2012  9:23 PM
 
You don't even need to respond to a post like that. Just report it. :\
Sep. 21, 2012  10:25 PM
 
Okay, I did some testing using the TT Jade in the custom from this thread, and yeah...

MF-H Jade (Stamina) Cancer E230RF vs. MF-H Duo Cygnus BD145RDF
Duo always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Jade: 0 (0 OS, 0 KO)
Duo: 20 (20 OS, 0 KO)
Jade Win %: 0.0%

MF-H Jade (Defense) Cancer E230RF vs. MF-H Duo Cygnus BD145RDF
Duo always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Jade: 0 (0 OS, 0 KO)
Duo: 20 (20 OS, 0 KO)
Jade Win %: 0.0%

It didn't go well at all. I might just have a terrible launch or something, but no matter how hard I banked it, E230's disk prevented any metal-on-metal contact. So, if everyone else's tests are valid, then yes, Hasbro's Jade is better for attack than TT's.
Sep. 21, 2012  11:46 PM
 
So just as an update: my Duo came in the mail today. In a PM Kain said he had trouble getting metal on metal contact with Duo. He hit the nail right on the head when he said that duo has a lower profile.

So I began looking more into tracks. I'm starting to like TH170 more due to the versatility, because Jade is even more height fussy than Cosmic. I also tried M145, which does fantastic against Duo and Basalt, but not as well against synchroms. I'll try and see if I can find any better tracks.

I'm really fascinated with Jade on a low track because it is probably one of the fastest wheels available right now and might be a perfect candidate to KO of BD145.

Edit: Inglut, if you don't mind could you try it on TH170 or M145. I've found those were the best tracks for dealing with Duo when using Jade. Especially M145.
Sep. 21, 2012  11:55 PM
 
You have me curious now. I will also try M145. Especially since I recently got my brand new red one from guardian gargoyle. :-)
Sep. 22, 2012  12:01 AM
 
(Sep. 21, 2012  11:55 PM)Kain_Highwind Wrote: You have me curious now. I will also try M145. Especially since I recently got my brand new red one from guardian gargoyle. :-)

M145 makes it go wicked fast. It self kos a lot. I believe it is the speed that allows Jade to dig into it's opponent more. It has no stamina at all and sometimes it doesn't make contact. I'll try to upload a video of the speed.
Sep. 22, 2012  2:53 AM
 
Can you try 160? I think that might be the magic height for this wheel.
Sep. 22, 2012  2:56 AM
 
(Sep. 22, 2012  2:53 AM)UGottaCetus Wrote: Can you try 160? I think that might be the magic height for this wheel.
MAGIC!!!!

160 is a top tier track so it might be~

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