I know that this must go in Ask Q Get A.....But can Big Bang be used with pre-4D series?
MFB Upper Attack - A Theory
![[Image: janstarblastsignature.jpg]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-imUVk9PErhw/Tb5jNvGKumI/AAAAAAAAAFw/8iSsYhW7vEw/janstarblastsignature.jpg)
![[Image: userx1.png]](https://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3190/userx1.png)
Sorry to revive an old thread, but seeing as people seem to be confusing UPWARDS SMASH and UPPER ATTACK. I myself only just figured out exactly why they are completely different things.
Basically, when using upper attack, you're "lifting" the opposing bey up your ramp. This means you've got to get them to travel up your "ramp" in the time you make contact. Firstly, this means that you want maximum rotational velocity (speed your bey spins, not moves), that's explained in our article on upper attack.
It ALSO means you need contact time. In MFB, we rarely get contact time, as metal on metal collisions usually have a lot recoil, so opponents bounce off before you could hope to "lift" them up a ramp.
With Upwards SMASH, you don't have the opponent travelling up a ramp, you're just smashing them upwards due to the angle of attack. You only touch for a fraction of a second, so moving faster overall (higher movement speed) is far more desirable than rotational velocity, as you hit them harder, so you do more damage, as with any Smash Attacker.
With metal on metal contact, we'll usually have upper smash. You can only use the angles of your wheel, and the ability to get under an opponent to attempt to flip/tip them. LordWolfblade has shown Midnight apparently exhibiting something closer to upper attack, however, it is worth noting that in MFB, this is not really as useful as Smash.
I'm sure this will seem obvious to some, and a bit complicated to others (I've tried to make it make sense), but yeah, that's why the Upwards Smash we have in MFB isn't the same as the old Upper Attack of Plastic/HMS.
This also means that you NEED to stop calling them the wrong names. This is quite simple: If it's MFB, you generally use "UPWARDS SMASH" instead of "Upper Attack".
As an additional note, Evan explained why there was still upper attack in HMS, despite the metal attack points. Scroll down, you'll find it.
And yep, I'm sure this has probably been said before, but as people haven't caught on, I HOPE this is simple enough for most people to understand.
Basically, when using upper attack, you're "lifting" the opposing bey up your ramp. This means you've got to get them to travel up your "ramp" in the time you make contact. Firstly, this means that you want maximum rotational velocity (speed your bey spins, not moves), that's explained in our article on upper attack.
It ALSO means you need contact time. In MFB, we rarely get contact time, as metal on metal collisions usually have a lot recoil, so opponents bounce off before you could hope to "lift" them up a ramp.
With Upwards SMASH, you don't have the opponent travelling up a ramp, you're just smashing them upwards due to the angle of attack. You only touch for a fraction of a second, so moving faster overall (higher movement speed) is far more desirable than rotational velocity, as you hit them harder, so you do more damage, as with any Smash Attacker.
With metal on metal contact, we'll usually have upper smash. You can only use the angles of your wheel, and the ability to get under an opponent to attempt to flip/tip them. LordWolfblade has shown Midnight apparently exhibiting something closer to upper attack, however, it is worth noting that in MFB, this is not really as useful as Smash.
I'm sure this will seem obvious to some, and a bit complicated to others (I've tried to make it make sense), but yeah, that's why the Upwards Smash we have in MFB isn't the same as the old Upper Attack of Plastic/HMS.
This also means that you NEED to stop calling them the wrong names. This is quite simple: If it's MFB, you generally use "UPWARDS SMASH" instead of "Upper Attack".
As an additional note, Evan explained why there was still upper attack in HMS, despite the metal attack points. Scroll down, you'll find it.
And yep, I'm sure this has probably been said before, but as people haven't caught on, I HOPE this is simple enough for most people to understand.
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
what about for MFBs like Lightning L-Drago? if it's low enough, won't the plastic be making contact? I know there are only a few left spin beyblades, but wouldn't the clear wheel be making more contact that the metal wheel if the opponent is higher?
![[Image: Lucagonire.png]](https://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss26/nihaal_01/Lucagonire.png)
![[Image: Humapass.png]](https://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss26/nihaal_01/Humapass.png)
Firstly, for upper attack to work, you need to be spinning in the same direction as your opponent. You also need higher Rotational Velocity than your opponent.
Thirdly, the angles aren't right for great upper, and those slopes are too small to lift and get under the oppenent properly anyway. Fourth, MFB's are much heavier, therefore harder to lift.
As for CW-based beys, well, you do get a little "upper", which we call "destabilisation", but the angles aren't right, and various other factors contribute to it not working. Plus, you can't always manage to get under the opponent (LTSC's, for example, are too low to be affected).
Given the weight of MFB's, you're better off using smash anyway.
I think that's all correct, anyway
Thirdly, the angles aren't right for great upper, and those slopes are too small to lift and get under the oppenent properly anyway. Fourth, MFB's are much heavier, therefore harder to lift.
As for CW-based beys, well, you do get a little "upper", which we call "destabilisation", but the angles aren't right, and various other factors contribute to it not working. Plus, you can't always manage to get under the opponent (LTSC's, for example, are too low to be affected).
Given the weight of MFB's, you're better off using smash anyway.
I think that's all correct, anyway
(May. 29, 2011 7:21 AM)th!nk Wrote: In MFB, we don't get contact time, as metal on metal collisions have huge recoil, so opponents bounce off before you could hope to "lift" them up a ramp.
HWS, Upper Attack.
ok i dissagree with this, if the ramps of HMS are made of metal and metal on metal collisions have to much recoil recoil for MFB, then it should be the same/simular for HMS
also in my videos about upper you can see that midnight (AKA the recoil king) and storm lifting earth bull 145_ (cant remember exact tip) into the air. yes some of the lifts are small but there are some big ones
(Apr. 09, 2011 4:44 AM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: here three videos that i made about upper attack and if midnight is good for it
part one (my theory): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RObveip6M
part two (random math): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9znea31NSU
part three (midnight and storm lift earth bull into the air, most of the lifts are small but at 2:40-2:50 there is a 1-2 inch lift from midnight): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbSXjZvlKPc
I was mainly referring to what others keep calling "upper attack", and how it's actually "upper smash", as basically no-one uses midnight for anything competitively. TBH I didn't really think about midnight. The thing is though, in MFB, smash attack is far more effective anyway.
That said, I'mma move that into a spoiler and work on it tomorrow. It was really just a quick thought about the difference between Upwards Smash and Upper Attack. Might have got carried away. I need time and a clear head to think.
One question though, were HMS Collisions Metal-On-Metal or metal on plastic?
That said, I'mma move that into a spoiler and work on it tomorrow. It was really just a quick thought about the difference between Upwards Smash and Upper Attack. Might have got carried away. I need time and a clear head to think.
One question though, were HMS Collisions Metal-On-Metal or metal on plastic?
(May. 29, 2011 2:23 PM)th!nk Wrote: as basically no-one uses midnight for anything competitively. TBH I didn't really think about midnight. The thing is though, in MFB, smash attack is far more effective anyway.
i understand that, i made it more to show that upper does exist in MFB regardless of recoil problems
but yeah, it isn't the most useful thing in MFB as smash is better
Yeppers. That essay was supposed to be about why Upwards Smash and Upper attack is different, I kinda diverged with the MFB HAS NO UPPARS thing, so I've edited it a little, and I hope that works (I'm seriously out of it, so I hope it makes sense right now 
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Well, sorry for posting something, which I think is completely useless. Still, I had a doubt... I've heard there is Upper in HMS.... As we all know, even HMS beys faced things like- Metal to metal contact, heavy beys, etc... So, why is there upper in HMS, and there is none in MFB?
(Jun. 01, 2011 3:13 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: Well, sorry for posting something, which I think is completely useless. Still, I had a doubt... I've heard there is Upper in HMS.... As we all know, even HMS beys faced things like- Metal to metal contact, heavy beys, etc... So, why is there upper in HMS, and there is none in MFB?
Because MFB is always Metal-on-Metal collisions, where HMS was usually Metal-on-Plastic. The ABS plastic on all attack rings absorbed a lot of the recoil caused by metal. HMS also had much better slopes for upper (see Samurai Upper and Circle Upper).
Thanks a lot, for answering, as I was confused about this matter for quite sometime....
That being said, it was more of a combination of both upper attack and upper smash in HMS, because of the metal; where as in plastics it was pure upper.
Man, Evan, you don't know how happy your explanation has made me, thanks for getting that, I was worried I'd made a terrible error there 
Thanks!
Thanks!
(Jun. 01, 2011 4:02 PM)th!nk Wrote: Man, Evan, you don't know how happy your explanation has made me, thanks for getting that, I was worried I'd made a terrible error there
Thanks!
Actually I want to thank you. I had noticed the phenomenon of HMS beys seeming to perform upper attack, but with high recoil of a smash attack a long time ago; but I never really knew how to put it into words. Your Upper Attack vs Upper Smash made everything make sense.
Awesome. Yeah, I was playing around, I'd been calling it upper smash for a while, but only just realised exactly what was going on after thinking about it, and spinning two blades together slowly.
(Apr. 15, 2011 2:05 PM)Aquilaz112 Wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3MbSYNoO...er&list=UL
Storm Really does have Upper.
Most shown in 2 and 3 rd round.
I have tryed these combo's, and I figure that the bouncing is most likely just the storm wheel making contact with gb145. due to gb145's oval shape, I think that for better results, just use a simple 145 or df145.
(Apr. 15, 2011 2:05 PM)Aquilaz112 Wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3MbSYNoO...er&list=UL
Storm Really does have Upper.
Most shown in 2 and 3 rd round.
Well, actually it's not upper attack. The bounces comes from smash power of Kerbecs.
And TT claims that Screw is the best upper MW in MFB. So can anyone test Screw?
Yes, let's all talk about a post that's two months old, and ask questions that can easily be answered by using the search function, while still calling upper smash "upper" and upper attack, despite the fact I just explained they're completely different and that people need to get the name right.
i just tried to see if big bang could lift earth bull 145FS (to lazy to find my SD/WD), it lifted it like once, and it just floor scraped constantly compared to midnight and storm
unfortunately i have no idea what mode is what... but i think i was using upper mode
the other funny thing is that my storm and midnight pushed/smashed earth bull farther, and more often then big bang lol
unfortunately i have no idea what mode is what... but i think i was using upper mode
the other funny thing is that my storm and midnight pushed/smashed earth bull farther, and more often then big bang lol
sorry if i'm not contributing or anything or if this has been trash like thermal LOL but i did a battle it was MF Cyber Pegasus 100 HF vs MF Bakushin Susanow 105 F and it was in a hasbro stadium and it was pretty epic this seems off topic but keep reading Both showed upper attack lifting each other out if a unaltered Pegasis Thunder Whip stadium though Bakushin won 3-2 and frequently i feel did do better cyber hit but stayed in the stadium Bakushin hit cyber out each time also this was OUT of the stadium not pockets really
ROund 1. Bakushin KO
Round 2.. Cyber OS by throwing susanow around flipped him
Round 3. Bakushin KO
Round 4. Cyber KO
Round 5. Bakushin OS KO sorta It hit the stadium top and was trying to force out by thre stadium was stronger and it fell on its side almost out but it died falling OS
ROund 1. Bakushin KO
Round 2.. Cyber OS by throwing susanow around flipped him
Round 3. Bakushin KO
Round 4. Cyber KO
Round 5. Bakushin OS KO sorta It hit the stadium top and was trying to force out by thre stadium was stronger and it fell on its side almost out but it died falling OS
Jesus christ, upper smash, not upper attack
(Jun. 03, 2011 4:18 AM)th!nk Wrote: Jesus christ, upper smash, not upper attack
the thing is that even though upper smash is more prominent in MFB then upper attack doesn't mean that upper still isn't there (as shown from my videos)
you didn't see exactly what BillyBlast's (i am guessing that you where stating that to him, not me) cyber and bakushin did, so you cant really say it is upper smash (though with bakushin it is most likely upper smash)
upper smash, smashes upwards, upper attack lifts (and then sometimes smashes after the lift). personally i think that it should be very hard to tell one from the other by just watching a battle without something like a high speed camera
i do not want any hard feelings, but i am just stating a fact
Fact is, if more times out of 10 (or whatever unit) your dealing with Upper smash rather than Upper Attack, Billy would have been seeing Smash not Attack.
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(Jun. 03, 2011 5:25 AM)Dan Wrote: Fact is, if more times out of 10 (or whatever unit) your dealing with Upper smash rather than Upper Attack, Billy would have been seeing Smash not Attack.
nyeh, i haven't seen any upper smash at all, only lifting through ramps
for some wheels it is easy to tell the difference with, but for others it may be impossible to tell the difference
the way that it is easy is like midnight: if you have seen the the one part of my video where i calculated that midnight's slope starts at the bottom of earth, the huge slope it has (which by looking at pictures it seems to have almost the same slope angle as upper dragoon) is obvious that it is doing the lifting part of upper attack
also if you look at screw, its slopes are a small for upper attack, yet are better shaped for upper smash, it is obviously not doing upper attack but upper smash