Ultra, knowledge or not, you know full well that we only accept claims here, and especially in this topic, if they are supported by valid test results. You must indeed use another thread if you want to speculate and ask others to test things for you.
MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion
Let me sum this up here, 'cause I'm starting to get confused...
1) Ultra wants tests to see if Death has a place in the stamina section of the tier list, because, by definition, spin stealers are "stamina" types, and a spin stealer can technically be right or left rotating. Death has been shown to perform phenomenally against traditional (left-spin) spin stealers, because of its unusually high LAD. I think what Ultra is trying to say is that we should put Death on the tier list as a right-rotating spin-equalizer, and thus it should be put in the stamina section.
2) I think he wants tests done to see on which tracks Death can spin the longest, so that just in case you go up against a same-spin opponent, you'll have a backup supply of stamina.
3) About actually adding right-rotating spin-stealers to the tier list, so far I have seen 3 opinions...
opinion I: Left-rotating spin-stealers are not prominent enough yet in the current metagame, so we shouldn't put something up there specifically made to counter them and only them because those counters wouldn't cover a wide enough range of combos in the meta.
opinion II: Left-spin is prominent enough in the current meta that we should have combos designed to counter left-rotating spin-stealers. However, they should not have their own new section, and should simply be grouped with conventional stamina types.
opinion III: Left-spin is prominent enough in the current meta that we should have combos
designed to counter left-rotating spin-stealers. Because of the diversity of the terms "stamina type" and "spin-equalizer", the stamina section of the tier list should be broken into two groups... One containing conventional stamina types, and one containing beys that rely on LAD to win, both left and right rotating, or spin-equalizers.
I myself am personally with opinion III. But this is really up to the advanced members to decide.
1) Ultra wants tests to see if Death has a place in the stamina section of the tier list, because, by definition, spin stealers are "stamina" types, and a spin stealer can technically be right or left rotating. Death has been shown to perform phenomenally against traditional (left-spin) spin stealers, because of its unusually high LAD. I think what Ultra is trying to say is that we should put Death on the tier list as a right-rotating spin-equalizer, and thus it should be put in the stamina section.
2) I think he wants tests done to see on which tracks Death can spin the longest, so that just in case you go up against a same-spin opponent, you'll have a backup supply of stamina.
3) About actually adding right-rotating spin-stealers to the tier list, so far I have seen 3 opinions...
opinion I: Left-rotating spin-stealers are not prominent enough yet in the current metagame, so we shouldn't put something up there specifically made to counter them and only them because those counters wouldn't cover a wide enough range of combos in the meta.
opinion II: Left-spin is prominent enough in the current meta that we should have combos designed to counter left-rotating spin-stealers. However, they should not have their own new section, and should simply be grouped with conventional stamina types.
opinion III: Left-spin is prominent enough in the current meta that we should have combos
designed to counter left-rotating spin-stealers. Because of the diversity of the terms "stamina type" and "spin-equalizer", the stamina section of the tier list should be broken into two groups... One containing conventional stamina types, and one containing beys that rely on LAD to win, both left and right rotating, or spin-equalizers.
I myself am personally with opinion III. But this is really up to the advanced members to decide.
![[Image: 68vfxj.jpg]](https://oi57.tinypic.com/68vfxj.jpg)
Everybody has been ranting about how good stamina wise genbull is, does it fall into the same category of right-spin spin steal or no? I don't own one so I can't even suggest a combo to put it on...
Okay, I really need to make this clear:
Ultra (and anyone else doing this): This is not the Parts Testing or the Random Thoughts thread. If you must talk about this stuff, use the other threads and quit derailing this one now.
Kai-V mentioned this above, but it really needs to be emphasized since you are moving the thread in a direction that will get it locked. Stop.
Time: On my tier list draft I I actually did mention Genbull Genbull (SR200/TH170)TB! In the custom's thread the testing has shown it's really good for stamina. It also probably has a spot on the Defense list, as I think was tested in the Genbull Discussion thread (to be honest I don't remember lol :U ). Genbull Genbull TH170TB is currently my go-to stamina custom, and I'm certainly a proponent of it being listed.
Ultra (and anyone else doing this): This is not the Parts Testing or the Random Thoughts thread. If you must talk about this stuff, use the other threads and quit derailing this one now.
Kai-V mentioned this above, but it really needs to be emphasized since you are moving the thread in a direction that will get it locked. Stop.
Time: On my tier list draft I I actually did mention Genbull Genbull (SR200/TH170)TB! In the custom's thread the testing has shown it's really good for stamina. It also probably has a spot on the Defense list, as I think was tested in the Genbull Discussion thread (to be honest I don't remember lol :U ). Genbull Genbull TH170TB is currently my go-to stamina custom, and I'm certainly a proponent of it being listed.
Instead of separating in sub categories, why not use the subcategories has a description of the combos?
example:
Revizer Dragooon SA165EWD (Spin Equalizer)
Edit: you talk about this on Page16
example:
Revizer Dragooon SA165EWD (Spin Equalizer)
Edit: you talk about this on Page16
(Jun. 15, 2013 2:42 PM)Ingulit Wrote: Okay, I really need to make this clear:
Ultra (and anyone else doing this): This is not the Parts Testing or the Random Thoughts thread. If you must talk about this stuff, use the other threads and quit derailing this one now.
Kai-V mentioned this above, but it really needs to be emphasized since you are moving the thread in a direction that will get it locked. Stop.
Time: On my tier list draft I I actually did mention Genbull Genbull (SR200/TH170)TB! In the custom's thread the testing has shown it's really good for stamina. It also probably has a spot on the Defense list, as I think was tested in the Genbull Discussion thread (to be honest I don't remember lol :U ). Genbull Genbull TH170TB is currently my go-to stamina custom, and I'm certainly a proponent of it being listed.
sorry, i think you misunderstood my post, after reading it over, i realized it doesn't make much sense anyways, so basically what I was asking is genbull genbull good for (anti) spin-stealing?
edit: One other thing I was thinking about related to the whole anti-spin steal thing, is it that death and duo (and perhaps genbull) are good at stealing spin from left-spin or is that they are good at preventing their spin from being stolen? Because if it is the latter, anti-spin steal is definitely its own category
edit: whole ton of death tests: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Death-de...pid1126393
Hey guys, ever thought of cross-checking the OP's list with the Winning Combo thread? Maybe go 3-4-5-6 months back?
It'd be cool if OP's combos have some tournament's success. That will solidify its tier status further. Personally, I feel that some supposedly Top Tier Combos are not really applicable competitively, and vice versa, some winning combos can be just flukes and are not Top Tier.
It'd be cool if OP's combos have some tournament's success. That will solidify its tier status further. Personally, I feel that some supposedly Top Tier Combos are not really applicable competitively, and vice versa, some winning combos can be just flukes and are not Top Tier.
I Agree with Uwik. Though Im not sure but I think the latest draft that Ingulit made differs from the OP a little, since its more recent. I personally would test the combos on the list, but I don't own half of those parts (yet). However I'll have them soon and I'll definitely contribute with some tests. Heck, I'll even use them at tournaments since they seem great.
guys gravity needs some lovin 
Seriously, what happened to all those Gravity tests that were supposed to be done? (see p. 3-4)
In my experience, the only thing that's consistently beaten out Gravity BD145RDF in a Stamina battle is a good Stamina Wheel on B:D. We could really use some new tests on it against popular Stamina types and Synchromes like Revizer Dragooon and Genbull Genbull.
Seriously, what happened to all those Gravity tests that were supposed to be done? (see p. 3-4)
In my experience, the only thing that's consistently beaten out Gravity BD145RDF in a Stamina battle is a good Stamina Wheel on B:D. We could really use some new tests on it against popular Stamina types and Synchromes like Revizer Dragooon and Genbull Genbull.
![[Image: vwa_copy3_by_elcesplooshe_daejy2u-fullvi...Za8ANFHK5M]](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/0779b042-834a-4ac6-9292-fab88a9af9cb/daejy2u-70e51d94-acbe-4593-ad69-5434d834b672.jpg/v1/fill/w_1024,h_317,q_75,strp/vwa_copy3_by_elcesplooshe_daejy2u-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MzE3IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvMDc3OWIwNDItODM0YS00YWM2LTkyOTItZmFiODhhOWFmOWNiXC9kYWVqeTJ1LTcwZTUxZDk0LWFjYmUtNDU5My1hZDY5LTU0MzRkODM0YjY3Mi5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9MTAyNCJ9XV0sImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl19.GJIQK2sXAJm5ScpS3pSVJ8KrA6Ru9qtE4Za8ANFHK5M)
(Jun. 15, 2013 7:27 PM)Insomniac Wrote: guys gravity needs some lovini currently cant test that combo, but i will as soon as i get a RDF lol.
Seriously, what happened to all those Gravity tests that were supposed to be done? (see p. 3-4)
In my experience, the only thing that's consistently beaten out Gravity BD145RDF in a Stamina battle is a good Stamina Wheel on B:D. We could really use some new tests on it against popular Stamina types and Synchromes like Revizer Dragooon and Genbull Genbull.
I think Ultra's thing was contagious, because I actually came up with a potential top-tier combo out of my head just now. anyways, i know its useless to say it now since i know very well that i need to get results first. as soon as i get the parts ill get working on results to post here. for now well, about my combo...
lol expect results in about a week or two. for now all im gonna say is that it is a Gryph combo, and it actually consists of top-tier parts. *boast mode* my combo shall take the meta-game by storm and earn a place on the top-tier list! 
too much blabber, i know lol. I just wanna contribute to the community.
hey is Killerken Dragoon Df105 LRF good combo it was sujested by my friend actually??
It's an awesome beyblade for attack!
![[Image: shining_sig.jpg]](https://s25.postimg.org/ni454yfgv/shining_sig.jpg)
(Jun. 20, 2013 1:50 PM)Flare_boy Wrote: hey is Killerken Dragoon Df105 LRF good combo it was sujested by my friend actually??
Definitely! It's a great Attack + Spin Equalizing combination. You should check out its testing thread:
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Killerke...n-DF105LRF
So I have the links for the videos of the tourney Bladerz B'day Clash [Thane, India] (Youtube videos)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgpG8Q3TEeE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxL208QZCEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncXtJ06aH5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61lEUuYhjZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1sUm_7Vs8A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMl-Wz6p__k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKPGGzccxHU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmEN7gBFfn8
All these videos are random so, In this videos u can see some competitive combos!! If this videos are useful then Please let me knw!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgpG8Q3TEeE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxL208QZCEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncXtJ06aH5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61lEUuYhjZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1sUm_7Vs8A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMl-Wz6p__k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKPGGzccxHU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmEN7gBFfn8
All these videos are random so, In this videos u can see some competitive combos!! If this videos are useful then Please let me knw!!
If you go through Nemo's videos, you'll find Revizer Dragooon BD killing attack combos, (Except the finals -.-)
You may say the participants aren't good at using attack types, but they are. That's all I can say.
About Ultra's post-
At Beyblade Warzone, I used Death W145 WD against BladingSpirit5's Revizer Dragooon BD145 RDF. It won by two or three rotations(that is when slow launch was used for Death {That's the secret})
I'm not sure about the anti-spin steal term is right, but Spin Equalizers is perfect
You may say the participants aren't good at using attack types, but they are. That's all I can say.
About Ultra's post-
At Beyblade Warzone, I used Death W145 WD against BladingSpirit5's Revizer Dragooon BD145 RDF. It won by two or three rotations(that is when slow launch was used for Death {That's the secret})
I'm not sure about the anti-spin steal term is right, but Spin Equalizers is perfect
What I saw were people who needed to launch harder...that is why it wasn't KOing Reviser Dragooon B
.
.
![[Image: genbullsig.png]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-io7_XMqG5Rc/UbZB3O0wpOI/AAAAAAAAA7U/zjtN6ICXrbc/s800/genbullsig.png)
I think that Killerken Dragooon BD145GF should be added to Dragooon because of it's amazing LAD.
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't gcf and cf known for having better lad than gf?
Definitely not in the BB-10... especially not with BD145. I have tested GF against Duo___ SA165EWD, Meow! can support me here.
No. On certain customs, GF stands completely upright, even surpassing the LAD of RDF, WD etc.
GCF and CF just fall over.
GCF and CF just fall over.
Is that even LAD, though?
Yes, it is. Watch Meow!s video on an LAD battle against Duo___SA165EWD. LAD means when a beyblade is about to stop spinning, it is spinning for more than a usual beyblade will. In this case GF is the best tip for LAD because of how flat it is and how long it would take for it to stop spinning when it's upright.
Technically, no. You can say GF just doesn't fall over/die. The terminology might be confusing for some newer users if we were to say GF has no LAD, since they might think it is terrible in an opposite spin matchup.
Creating a new term that applies to one bottom on a limited setup is also not convenient.
Creating a new term that applies to one bottom on a limited setup is also not convenient.
Adding on to what Meow! said, it technically isn't LAD but in a way... it is. I have tested Killerken Dragooon BD145GF and when it gets to the bottom of the stadium... it starts to sort of "shake". When this happens, the opposing beyblade would start hitting it, which would normally mean for flat-based tips that have low spin rotation that the match is over... but in this specific combination it doesn't get knocked over... if it stays in the middle of the stadium... it'll be able to win the match by OS.
Honestly, I do not understand how that would count as LAD. :\
It seems like an extremely unique phenomenon though.
The only reason why we are discussing this is because it is the first time a flat tip has displayed such capabilities.
If we think about it, it is able to spin as long as any other flat tip, but because of its wider base, it doesn't tend to lose balance that easily.
It isn't LAD. LAD would involve the combination rotating around after tipping over (as Meow! said). "Life After Death", as it is known now, would change if we consider GF's ability to be LAD. GF doesn't allow a combo to keep spinning after it has "died". Its keeps spinning naturally till the end like any other Flat tip (or any tip for that matter), but due to the wider base, it is somewhat resilient. It doesn't get knocked over(thanks to its totally flat surface which allows it to keep itself up, something that WD can't due to the sharp center). Otherwise, its only a regular Flat tip spinning until it loses all rotation. Being a part of a Spin-Steal/Tornado Stall combo though, it never loses its rotation completely.
The reason why it succeeds in OSing would be because-
In Meow!'s video, there was no instance of GF tipping over even slightly. It continues spinning without any hindrance except for the contact with the opposing beyblade. The opposing bey starts tipping over and loses. GF maintain's balance- which also means it retains its spin. It was most noticeable in the third battle in Meow!'s video.
When GF did tip over though, it lost (a close battle though). So yeah...
That's what I thought of it.
It seems like an extremely unique phenomenon though.
The only reason why we are discussing this is because it is the first time a flat tip has displayed such capabilities.
If we think about it, it is able to spin as long as any other flat tip, but because of its wider base, it doesn't tend to lose balance that easily.
It isn't LAD. LAD would involve the combination rotating around after tipping over (as Meow! said). "Life After Death", as it is known now, would change if we consider GF's ability to be LAD. GF doesn't allow a combo to keep spinning after it has "died". Its keeps spinning naturally till the end like any other Flat tip (or any tip for that matter), but due to the wider base, it is somewhat resilient. It doesn't get knocked over(thanks to its totally flat surface which allows it to keep itself up, something that WD can't due to the sharp center). Otherwise, its only a regular Flat tip spinning until it loses all rotation. Being a part of a Spin-Steal/Tornado Stall combo though, it never loses its rotation completely.
The reason why it succeeds in OSing would be because-
In Meow!'s video, there was no instance of GF tipping over even slightly. It continues spinning without any hindrance except for the contact with the opposing beyblade. The opposing bey starts tipping over and loses. GF maintain's balance- which also means it retains its spin. It was most noticeable in the third battle in Meow!'s video.
When GF did tip over though, it lost (a close battle though). So yeah...
That's what I thought of it.
![[Image: janstarblastsignature.jpg]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-imUVk9PErhw/Tb5jNvGKumI/AAAAAAAAAFw/8iSsYhW7vEw/janstarblastsignature.jpg)