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MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion

Mar. 02, 2013  5:22 AM
 
(Feb. 13, 2013  3:02 PM)th!nk Wrote: Finally, and most importantly, it would be good if someone could compose a list of every combo that needs looking at. If a few people contribute to it, we should hopefully cover everything new, and combine that with the old list to get a selection pool. From there, we can narrow it down - cutting out things that don't have enough testing, don't perform well enough, are now heavily outclassed, etc etc. I think that's the best way to go, if we want to do this in a timely manner and not miss anything.
If that list itself updated with the reasons, even better (if the committee and he are okay with it, I might even suggest putting it in the OP (albeit spoilered) after the most obvious things are removed and it's been looked over enough). My reason for proposing this is the fact that since the last update, there's been an influx of new and often varied combinations introduced, and that means there is much more than normal to go through.
Usually I'd leave this kind of thing for the advanced forum to prevent a list full of dumb stuff, but it's not exactly brimming with activity right now, and I think we will be fine as long as the master list is edited by an advanced member.

Re-posting this to see if I can get an actual response because I think it needs to happen.
Mar. 02, 2013  6:29 AM
 
I actually am working on searching and compiling test results for every possible Synchrom combination (though I doubt that every one is necessary). It's not exactly what you're suggesting, but I think it would be good to see if any of the unthought-of ones hold any potential. Keep in mind that I only know some basics about Zero-G; I'm only doing this because I have excessive amounts of time and my school break is coming up soon, so I'll be able to get a lot of it done.
Mar. 02, 2013  7:27 AM
 
Not quite what I mean, but still useful (though IIRC Ingulit was doing something similar).

What I mean is things that have shown effectiveness in tests, Killerken Dragooon 105LRF, Gryph Gryph E230BSF, Wyvang Dragooon with any defense/attack track and tip it seems like, Genbull^2F230TB or whatever it was, and so on, anything that people think may be and can justify as competitive. From there, we work on trimming back the list slowly, giving reasons why for each thing we cut off.

Honestly, the testing and combo building in this forum is the most active it's been in a long time (though not all of that testing is good testing (20 Round Minimum being commonly ignored), a lot of it is), which is great because Zero-G provides such a huge range of combinations and ways parts can interact thanks to synchrome... We need all the help we can get if we ever want to fully understand the system. Honestly, if Zero G is the last of MFB we get, then Takara did well by us in providing such a ridiculously customizable and dynamic system, haha. But, that's kinda off topic, best to keep the discussion on my list suggestion methinks, haha.
Mar. 02, 2013  7:26 PM
 
I would gladly do that, but I don't know if I'm fit to do it. What do you guys think? If you would rather someone else do it, I would understand.
Mar. 02, 2013  7:29 PM
 
I'd personally prefer Ingulit or KainHighwind to do it, if they have time. They're both busy people however, and I'm sure both are tired of me suggesting things for them to do at this point, so if you want to start putting something together, I won't stop you - at the very least, it should provide a decent starting point, as there will hopefully be a lot of collaboration involved in the process, if we do as I suggsted. Smile
Mar. 02, 2013  8:33 PM
 
I think that for all except the defense and the stamina combos that the regular metal face should be given as top tier, for in many cases it works just as good if not better than metal face heavy. For stamina combos other than 230 the metal face feather should be on there. For 230 stamina combos the metal face light could be suggested.
Mar. 03, 2013  12:06 AM
 
@th!nk I would also gladly help out once I get my Zero-G stuff.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but is VariAres worth keeping on the list anymore? It seems that with Synchrom, it has lost some of its effectiveness. Speaking of which, if someone could, could someone post results comparing VariAres, Flash, and some other Synchrom attackers against Revizer²? Sorry if this has been done already and I just somehow missed it.
Mar. 23, 2013  6:01 PM
 
With approval from KainHighwind and Th!nk, I'm posting this list to serve as a list of everything that needs to be tested. Here it is:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Mar. 23, 2013  8:52 PM
 
After reading the list above I decided to test Begirados Begirados BD145 RF. I don't have a MSF-H at the moment, but I'm ordering some soon.
Gear
Right Spin
Spoiler (Click to View)
Left Spin
Spoiler (Click to View)
BB-10 Attack Stadium


Begirados Begirados BD145 RF vs Killerken Dragooon SA165 EWD
Dragooon always shot first.
Begirados: 11 (11 KO)
Dragooon: 9 (8 OS, 1 KO)
Begirados Begirados BD145 RF Win Percentage: 55%
Detailed Results
Spoiler (Click to View)

Begirados Begirados BD145 RF vs MF-F Duo Cygnus 230 D (D is used)
Duo Launched First.
Begirados: 15 (15 KO)
Duo: 5 (5 OS)
Begirados Begirados BD145 RF Win Percentage: 75%
Detail Results
Spoiler (Click to View)

Begirados Begirados BD145 RF vs MF-H Flash Orion S130 R2F
Begirados launched on Odd and Flash launched on even
Begirados: 14 (12 KO, 2 OS)
Flash: 6 (5 KO, 1 OS)
Begirados Begirados BD145 RF Win Percentage: 70%
Detail Results
Spoiler (Click to View)

I don't have any defense tests because my only BD145 was on Begirados and I don't have E230 or any thing that would work really good for defense.
Mar. 24, 2013  12:43 AM
 
Well, those tests are good, but it is a problem that you don't have E230 or another BD145. Any chance of doing something against Killerken Killerken(or Revizer Revizer if you have it)SA165 CS, as well as a Flash benchmark?
Mar. 24, 2013  10:12 PM
 
Whoa, those are actually pretty fantastic numbers for an Anti-Attack custom. I've always been underwhelmed by Zero-G Anti-Attackers, but that might change my mind! Do some more tests and if they remain positive I'd recommend posting a thread for the custom so we can discuss it at length.
Mar. 25, 2013  12:07 AM
 
Nice list! Inguilt, could you please put it in the OP so it can be easily found? I also think that the OP should be constantly updated with test results, if possible, too, IMO, to provide an easy way to find results and see what needs to be tested.
Mar. 25, 2013  12:58 AM
 
Shinobu recommended for me to try against Saramanda Saramanda SA165 CS since I don't have an E230 so I did.
Gear
Right Spin
Spoiler (Click to View)
BB-10 Stadium
Begirados Begirados BD145 RF vs Saramanda Saramanda SA165 (Normal Mode) CS
Begirados:12 (12 KO)
Saramanda:8 (8 OS)
Begirados Begirados BD145 RF Win Percentage: 60%
Detail Results
Spoiler (Click to View)
Ingulit
Thanks. I think I'll make a thread soon. I'll probably do a few more tests though
Mar. 25, 2013  1:21 AM
 
(Mar. 25, 2013  12:07 AM)Mr. N Wrote: Nice list! Inguilt, could you please put it in the OP so it can be easily found? I also think that the OP should be constantly updated with test results, if possible, too, IMO, to provide an easy way to find results and see what needs to be tested.

Good idea, I'll work on that tonight.
Mar. 25, 2013  1:29 AM
 
Has anybody tried Balro Begirados for Attack? From my informal testing, the setup is really nice. I do not really have any other attack Chrome Wheels besides:

Gryph x2
Girago
Saramanda x2
Mar. 25, 2013  1:32 AM
 
I added the list to the OP, and I linked to the threads for all of the combos that have threads that I could find. If I missed any or have links to tests, let me know!
Mar. 25, 2013  1:33 AM
 
Anything stamina based that needs testing? I don't really have doubles of anything and no E230 either so keep that in mind.
Mar. 25, 2013  1:37 AM
 
I think Duo W145 BWD could use some testing.
Mar. 25, 2013  1:39 AM
 
Don't have W145.
Mar. 28, 2013  7:32 AM
 
This is related to the OP-
Basalt- It still holds importance for anti-attack, so it should be in the competitive list, but not on the Defence list. Still, I feel Basalt hasn't been tested much with new, Zero-G parts that much, like SA165, SP230, SR200, etc.
Dragooon- It's seriously creeping into almost everything bey type.
Synchromes- although there are many combinations, each synchrome should be tested with these set-ups
BD145/E230 RB/CS
W145 EWD
S130/CH120 RF, R2F,etc.
230 MB
This will be instrumental.
Also, it needs to be known where 4D Metal Wheels stand in front of Synchromes.
Synchromes should be tested on 4D Bottoms- something which has been neglected pretty much now, with the exception of Bearing Drive.
Also, has anyone ever tested Phantom _______ 230 CS?
I used this to place 3rd at a tournament.
It easily outspins most stamina set-ups, and when against attack set-ups, it can outstand attacks if launched with less RPM.
I need your testing for confirmation though
Mar. 30, 2013  7:03 AM
 
I agree with zeneo in everything. I have all current top tier parts and I still feel Basalt has the competitive potential to be top tier.
And about that Phantom _____ 230CS... I don't know so I can't tell if its good or not, but it got my attention so ill test it tomorrow. Still I dont think it could take an attack from flash but ill try what you said. I'll put Cygnus/Aquario on it and a MF to see what it can do. I'll post results tomorrow.

EDIT: also in the coming days ill try to help testing the combos in the OP.
Mar. 30, 2013  7:52 AM
 
Just a few things....

How on earth can Basalt be top tier when it is beat by literally everything? Same goes with Phantom 230CS...

I just don't see what kind of customs you are talking about that have "potential". Basalt is long dead for defense, and stamina and it never had any good attack. It's most recent competitive use was with Anti-Attack, but because we have so many better options such as Diablo and literally every Synchrom on an RF, there is no reason at all to use it. It can barely beat Flash, let alone the new Synchrom Attackers like Wyvang and Balro.

Same goes with Phantom 230CS. The current optimal Meta-Game not only contains a heavy concentration of Left Spin Beyblades (Which, if you haven't noticed, completely owns standard 230...) but Defense types that can KO Phantom 230CS with ease. Phantom's only hope of winning, is battling the rare Duo BD145CS or a terribly thought out stamina type.

It is like saying Lightning L Drago BD145LRF should still be Top Tier because it can beat Duo Aquario 230MB and Phantom Orion BGrin.
Mar. 30, 2013  8:02 AM
 
Okay, My points on Phantom and Basalt are just suggestions, and points to be reflected upon.
And hasn't
Bahamdia Dragooon SP230 GF on the top-tier list. As long as I remember, it pretty much got above 60% for all it's tests.
Phantom CS could just hang on if it had a Metal Face, The CS was overwhelming, and if it was launched slow. I'll be posting tests for this in the first week of April cause I have exams, and I have not been allowed to touch my beys
Mar. 30, 2013  2:26 PM
 
(Mar. 28, 2013  7:32 AM)zeneo Wrote: Also, has anyone ever tested Phantom _______ 230 CS?
I used this to place 3rd at a tournament.
It easily outspins most stamina set-ups, and when against attack set-ups, it can outstand attacks if launched with less RPM.
I need your testing for confirmation though

The only reason you placed 3rd with that is because of how behind India's metagame is, and you know it too.
Mar. 30, 2013  4:57 PM
 
I think we also might have to remember exactly when that combo won 3rd place at a tournament, without insulting someone's metagame.

I would love to support Bahamdia/Dragooon Dragooon SP230GF, but the only problem is that it has a rather high learning curve. You need to practice a lot to get that thing to do well against most combos. Without practice you cannot beat certain top-tiers otherwise, and I'm speaking from experience.
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