MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion

Personally Basalt TR145 R2F seems a bit outdated to me. It puts up okay numbers. But there are better combos.

Also all the dragoon combos need to have Genbull & Killerken added to those combos. Everyone uses them over revizer now a days. Personally I use Genbull over everything else for Dragoon.

Genbull 2 should be tested for defense. With the shape it has done relatively well for me in informal testing.
(Aug. 28, 2013  4:37 AM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: Genbull 2 should be tested for defense. With the shape it has done relatively well for me in informal testing.

I agree, but personally I've tested Genbull Genbull BD145CS and it still doesn't match up to what Revizer Revizer can do. Genbull's best use is for Stamina, but it has a bit of potential for Defence. I believe it should be tested with E230.
Have you thought of using Reviser/genbull Genbull/reviser? It could increase stamina, without sacrificing much defenseive abitlity IMO. Tests with e230 would be helpful.
(Aug. 28, 2013  4:43 AM)LMAO Wrote:
(Aug. 28, 2013  4:37 AM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: Genbull 2 should be tested for defense. With the shape it has done relatively well for me in informal testing.

I agree, but personally I've tested Genbull Genbull BD145CS and it still doesn't match up to what Revizer Revizer can do. Genbull's best use is for Stamina, but it has a bit of potential for Defence. I believe it should be tested with E230.

Genbull is not that good on CS at all, but it's defense takes a huge boost from an all rubber tip. It absolutely needs a rubber tip like RS or RDF to do well. MSF Genbull Genbull BD145RDF is a lot better than MSF Reviser Reviser BD145RDF, but Genbull Genbull BD145CS is not as good as Revizer Revizer BD145CS.

Try it on BD145RS/RDF you'll be amazed.
(Aug. 28, 2013  2:44 AM)Shining God MS Wrote: Why Dragooon Reviser? Then there is no pint of Dragooon being there, spin stealing. Dragooon SA165RDF has a lot of good numbers for tests compared to Dragooon SA165EWD(sorry Ingulit!)even though SA165EWD is still great. Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF and Gryph E230BSF need more tests(at least updated). Now, I know this is a little early for Balro Balro but... I think it deserves a spot on the tier list(W145WSF FYI), from my tests, it can outspin much more things unlike Flash W145MF, so yeah Tongue_out
Revizer Dragooon is what I meant, sorry.
I believe Bahamdia2 is criminally untested for attack. It has potential. go check the bahamdia discussion.
On the subject of Genbull for defense, I did some formal tests for Meow! a while back...

theblackdragon Wrote:OK, here we are...

MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RDF vs. Wyvang Wyvang GB145R2F
Genbull launched first on all launches. Worn-ish R2F and RDF.
Genbull: wins, 13/20 (12 OS, 1 KO)
Wyvang: wins, 7/20 (All KO)
MSF-H Genbull Genbull BD145RDF win rate: 65%

OK, so my launch wasn't in such great shape today... Confused I hit 85% win this last week. It could also have been the ware of my R2F, but it's just barely out of its prime. here's a benchmark (done today, so launch was just as bad)

MSF-H Reviser Reviser BD145RDF vs. Wyvang Wyvang GB145R2F
Reviser launched first on all launches. Same RDF and R2F.
Reviser: wins, 11/20 (10 OS, 1 KO)
Wyvang: wins, 8/20 (All KO)
MSF-H Revisr Reviser BD145RDF win rate: 55%

So yah... it would appear that Genbull is actually around 20% better than Reviser for defense. Pretty awesome! XD

I like it a lot. Joyful_3
Wow that deserves some spot somewhere on the list, Girago^2 is good why not it on the list?
Did anyone actually read my post, lol? I specifically said that was an extremely old list (like, I think I posted that on page 14 or something) and that I was only putting it there for reference on how a list might look like. I was hoping for other people to post their own list.

Here, I'm going to quote my post again; please read the whole thing!

(Aug. 27, 2013  9:22 PM)Ingulit Wrote:
We need lists!

So we've been talking for many pages about so many individual customs or topics, but we haven't had any drafting of lists take place! It can be helpful to get an idea of what everyone thinks the competitive list should look like, and to that end I have a proposal: to those of you who have the time to write a fairly detailed list, post your own current competitive list with explanations! We could then comment on/critique the lists that are posted, and hopefully gravitate toward a single list that most of us agree upon. Just remember to follow the rules of the thread--namely that you need to have evidence/support for anything you put in your list--and we can really get this ball rolling!

Here is an example of a list I proposed a long while back for style reference. This list is by no means up to date, this is just here if anyone needs one idea of how a list could be formatted. Your list doesn't have to be quite as detailed as this, but the more you can explain, the better!

Competitive List Draft (Click to View)
If you can give me about 3 days to write one up, I gotcha man. I'll steal a few from other lists but y'know how it is Smile
I'll give my opinion on the list later on Today, I have a few really good ideas, that should help this list.

Once I get on my computer I'll have my draft up Smile
Alright, I think I'll give this a shot Wink


I just added the colors for fun. XD

A few changes to Ingulit's draft I've changed...

1. I've removed Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF. I really see absolutely no application for that combo to fill... it loses to absolutely everything I've ever put it up against every single time.

2. I've added Genbull for defense.

3. I've removed Basalt TR145R2F and replaced it with Girago BD145RF

4. I've added a couple extra tracks to use with Balro in the attack section.

5. I've outlined which tracks to use with Wyvang

6. I've removed Killerken Reviser on E230. I see no reason to put the higher recoil killerken on the bottom when you can just put reviser there and stick killerken on top...

7. I've removed E230 in the Duo defense section... I really, really have no success with Duo on E230. It's much too light to stay standing, IMO, and because of the disc on E230 you're not even utilizing its best quality, its incredibly smooth shape. I just see no reason to use it on E230.

8. I've removed Phantom 160PD. I've tried it with 160D, and it just doesn't have as much success as it does with Duo. Even Ingulit said in his thread that the track-bottom setup only really has any synergy with Duo.

9.
I've removed SR200TB from the phantom section... IMO TB doesn't help Phantom's pure endurance, and Phantom doesn't seem to benefit from TB nearly as much as Genbull does; Plus, there are no formal tests done on the combo anyway. XD

10. I put Wyvang Wyvang BD145RSF up there for balance.

After that, I don't think there's anything different (except the format). Smile
Not even kidding when I say I only had one difference from that whole thing. I like it XD
(Aug. 28, 2013  8:14 PM)DrPepsidew Wrote: Not even kidding when I say I only had one difference from that whole thing. I like it XD

Great! Smile What was the one thing?
Scythe, I love the combo but many defense customs can OS it Uncertain It's great against attack but stamina and other defense types, along with the ones that have stamina...
(Aug. 28, 2013  9:13 PM)DrPepsidew Wrote: Scythe, I love the combo but many defense customs can OS it Uncertain It's great against attack but stamina and other defense types, along with the ones that have stamina...

Yah... I can see where you're coming from. :\ The reason I put it on there, is that it's actually the only defender that can succesfully counter Wyvang (save Duo sometimes). It's pretty much pure defense, which means that it won't have a very wide range of application... but it's pretty much the best at what it does, so I figured hey, why don't we put it up there.
I'm in almost complete agreement with theblackdragon, but I have a few things to take off, Duo for defense, there is no reason to leave it on there at this point, it is outclassed by everything else up there in pure defense and genbull is comparable to duo in stamina, so Duo for defense I feel should be gone. Hades is the metal wheel so putting that on Phantom doesn't work... (not a big deal, just inaccurate for a formal list). Also, not much in terms of testing, but I love begiradoas for attack, and since you said to post what we use... Begirados begirados gb145 r2f and begirados begirados w145 mf have become my go to bb-10 attackers...
I, agree, but what about scythe 85/bd145rdf, is it not as good?
BD145RDF on Scythe does not work. And Scythe is good but needs more Tests. Also Time Hades is the clear wheel, Fusion is the Metal Wheel.
I think Duo BD145RF/R2F(credit to th!nk)should be added, at least from my testing. Now, I know some of you will like this idea, and some of you will not. Please test this out. It has low recoil, to withstand attacks against Flash and Wyvang(yes it can actually win against Wyvang) and it has the stamina to OS Defense(thanks to Duo). I believe the true counter to this is Girago Girago SA165MF, so... start talking guys!
What about LTAC's? Of course they need more testing, but something to look into.
(Aug. 28, 2013  10:03 PM)Shining God MS Wrote: Also Time Hades is the clear wheel, Fusion is the Metal Wheel.

Hades/Hell is the Metal Wheel while Kerbecs is the Clear Wheel, I believe is what Time is pointing out. I have noticed that on the lists as well but have never mentioned it for some reason haha.

As far as the list, theblackdragon did a great job in my opinion.
Very glad to see Phantom Cygnus 85 MF on there as well as the MSF-L Girago x2 BD145 RF.

As Kyler mentioned, it would be nice to see some more tests involving LTAC's after we saw a few tests a month or so back.
@shining god ms i wil when i get bd145r2f.
@thebkackdragon: Very well done, kudos to you. Only little things I can say is Duo 230 MB also uses MF-M, and that Wyvang Wyvang BD145 RSF should go on for balance.

@Shining God MS- Yes, it has defense, but it can't KO stamina. That's why it was removed last time around.

Time: If your meta is up to date, Duo BD145 RDF is far better a choice, than, say, Revizer Revizer BD145 RSF.

EDIT: uh guys, ever hear of Fusion Hades lol?
Lol yeah, that's what I was talking about, Fusion Hades. Also, maybe Meow! can test this and plus, I don't know of any formal tests with it... so can anyone please test against Phantom?
O wow, duh, I feel really stupid now, I haven't played bb-10 in a little while, so that may be part of it, it just seems like duo anything is going to be to light to withstand anything from wyvang