MFB: Limited :: Primer, Random Thoughts, and Q&A Thread!
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I'll probably go with the TH170D/SD, since it the track allows me to have good matchups with all bey heights
As TBD said, the best clear wheel varies. By my solo spins and what I've seen in battle, Cancer is the best clear wheel for Scythe that I own, but I don't own Hades. Better than Cygnus/PegasisII and way better than aquario/bull, though. Only reason I used PegasisII on the CH120RF custom was because Cancer isn't aggressive enough for the combo I was working with. UnicornoII actually gives me the best solo spins, but even putting its aggression aside, that's something I want to look into more before I recommend as it's a strange thing to be seeing.
TH170EWD is an okay setup, but you can't use the taller heights or it will suck. Generally beats B
1v1 and some other things but on the whole, probably best avoided.
EWD > WD in all situations except WD is better on tall tracks by warrant of being slightly shorter, but neither are good on said tracks anyway. Now that spin-stealers are around, I honestly feel that aside from maybe LTSC, EWD is a far superior choice to WD in Standard/Limited, to the extent I would probably not list WD on the Competitive Combos list any more, if I didn't think it would result in rioting in the streets.
Personally, if you get an AA2 Scythe, I would recommend giving MF-L Scythe Cancer B: D a shot - scythe's defensive ability means it's surprisingly hard to KO, and it does well against most other heights while also being very difficult to handle with spin stealers. Definitely better than W145EWD, though TH170D may work better against some things I guess.
TH170EWD is an okay setup, but you can't use the taller heights or it will suck. Generally beats B
1v1 and some other things but on the whole, probably best avoided.EWD > WD in all situations except WD is better on tall tracks by warrant of being slightly shorter, but neither are good on said tracks anyway. Now that spin-stealers are around, I honestly feel that aside from maybe LTSC, EWD is a far superior choice to WD in Standard/Limited, to the extent I would probably not list WD on the Competitive Combos list any more, if I didn't think it would result in rioting in the streets.
Personally, if you get an AA2 Scythe, I would recommend giving MF-L Scythe Cancer B: D a shot - scythe's defensive ability means it's surprisingly hard to KO, and it does well against most other heights while also being very difficult to handle with spin stealers. Definitely better than W145EWD, though TH170D may work better against some things I guess.
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(Mar. 11, 2014 8:22 AM)th!nk Wrote: EWD > WD in all situations except WD is better on tall tracks by warrant of being slightly shorter, but neither are good on said tracks anyway. Now that spin-stealers are around, I honestly feel that aside from maybe LTSC, EWD is a far superior choice to WD in Standard/Limited, to the extent I would probably not list WD on the Competitive Combos list any more, if I didn't think it would result in rioting in the streets.
Well, it can be very dependent on the quality of the bearing, which is usually a major variable between EWD Bottoms, so results can actually vary quite drastically. For instance, one of my EWD's loses pretty badly to WD. The other one is almost even even, although it does seem ever so slightly behind.
So, while EWD is the undisputed champion of opposite-spin matchups, results will vary in EWD vs. WD matchups between users. That said, IDK if we can really give a solid answer on that one. I would, however, recommend EWD for its use against opposite spin opponents, since it's only slightly behind WD at its worse (and apparently slightly ahead at best).
That's what I've always thought, seeing different people getting completely different results with it. If there are tests showing that it out spins WD by a discernible margin, I must've completely missed them, haha. XD
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Generally when I say stuff like that it assumes the EWD in question isn't awful. Even my fairly heavily used not all that amazing SonoKong EWD outspins my WD's though, with great consistency, even now it's starting to move around a bit. The issue hasbro ones have with wear aggression would affect it but I guess I just consider that a 'defective part'.
Only advantage to WD I can think of is that it seems like WD takes same-spin hits a little better, could just be because it's a little lower, though.
I guess it mightn't be as good on the higher recoil stamina wheels (Burn and at the time EWD was being looked into, Hell) but IDK it's always been blatantly superior to me, might find time to test to show it as I remember whoever tested it initially had WD doing better, and I know I didn't argue with it back then (though I do recall finding EWD better, at that point I had Hell Kerbecs, so (MF-L) Hell Kerbecs BD145CS kinda wrecked both of them), but I've found EWD better for a very long time now, and the difference between my mostly unused Strongest Blader Set EWD and my WD's in same spin stamina matchups is a lot more than 'slightly' from what I've seen.
Only advantage to WD I can think of is that it seems like WD takes same-spin hits a little better, could just be because it's a little lower, though.
I guess it mightn't be as good on the higher recoil stamina wheels (Burn and at the time EWD was being looked into, Hell) but IDK it's always been blatantly superior to me, might find time to test to show it as I remember whoever tested it initially had WD doing better, and I know I didn't argue with it back then (though I do recall finding EWD better, at that point I had Hell Kerbecs, so (MF-L) Hell Kerbecs BD145CS kinda wrecked both of them), but I've found EWD better for a very long time now, and the difference between my mostly unused Strongest Blader Set EWD and my WD's in same spin stamina matchups is a lot more than 'slightly' from what I've seen.
Really? That's interesting.
From what I've heard, the only people I have talked to who found EWD better at all only found it better by an extremely small margin. Go figure. :\
EDIT: Although, most of the testing was with Duo/Phantom, so if weight affects EWD vs. WD as much as it effects TB vs. D-series stuff, and you were testing with LTD weight-range stuff, that could explain things (although Duo is only a few grams heavier than Hell IIRC).
From what I've heard, the only people I have talked to who found EWD better at all only found it better by an extremely small margin. Go figure. :\
EDIT: Although, most of the testing was with Duo/Phantom, so if weight affects EWD vs. WD as much as it effects TB vs. D-series stuff, and you were testing with LTD weight-range stuff, that could explain things (although Duo is only a few grams heavier than Hell IIRC).
Well, I guess the margin the outspins happen by aren't too huge, I meant that more in terms of how consistently it wins. Will try to do some formal testing soon, seeing as it seems like there's enough conflicting evidence for me to want to check it out formally. Still, even with potential variation, the existence/popularity of spin-stealers nowadays means EWD is a better choice anyway tbh.
It's been a while since I really did much with it in standard in same-spin, so I can't really say. Hell is unusually recoil-prone for a Stamina Wheel though, so it's not really a very useful example.
It's been a while since I really did much with it in standard in same-spin, so I can't really say. Hell is unusually recoil-prone for a Stamina Wheel though, so it's not really a very useful example.
I was only talking about EWD. TH170D works nicely with Scythe, especially with the aggression its top provides. It's generally the standard height matchups game as with any stamina wheel, though Scythe can't be used on low tracks due to its width and overhang, and as I said, personally I find MF-L Scythe Cancer B: D very effective (though my B: D spins very freely so your mileage may vary).
Between W145EWD and TH170D, TH170D wins due to being able to deal with all heights?
As is so often the way with Beyblade, it's less that one is superior and more that they're both good against different things or in different ways. I've always been a big fan of TH170, its versatility and adaptability have always appealed to me as I don't really like too much guesswork, but on the other hand it's probably easier for a lot of 145-height defense/defensive balance customs to KO TH170 at any given height than they would W145, especially with Scythe's side-on defense. I also am not sure off the top of my head how well TH170D handles the weaker spin stealers (Meteo L Drago B: D/CH120EWD), most of my use of it has been in MF-H Libra TH170CS and I'm not sure if the same will apply to Scythe and D, while W145EWD works nicely against them (though it still won't outspin F230CF/GCF spin stealers).
Has anyone tried the Metal System Aquario for Attack?
for me, It managed to OS Earth 85RSF by forcing it to scrape (though it's only got 7/20 the last time it tried it- MF-L Aquario S130LRF vs MF-H Earth (can't remember CW) 85RSF- far less than Vulcan, Jade, Lightning, Screw or Gravity)
I've always had fun experimenting with parts. Even if Aquario does not fare well against LTDC, finding something else that is viable remotely is always good- one more part to use!
for me, It managed to OS Earth 85RSF by forcing it to scrape (though it's only got 7/20 the last time it tried it- MF-L Aquario S130LRF vs MF-H Earth (can't remember CW) 85RSF- far less than Vulcan, Jade, Lightning, Screw or Gravity)
I've always had fun experimenting with parts. Even if Aquario does not fare well against LTDC, finding something else that is viable remotely is always good- one more part to use!
I believe Th!nk mentioned he was going to try some aquario attack customs awhile ago, but I'm not sure if he ever had a chance.
Yeah, one of the blog posts I'm working on covers it quite a bit, but I haven't had time to finish it. It's attack power is just okay as you've said, but it has decent enough stamina and low enough recoil that it works really nicely with metal flat - currently my preferred setup is MF-F Aquario 100MF but a lot of different things work.
Probably take a bit of practice to get used to getting metal flat to pass through the centre a couple of times consistently but it's capable of KOing a whole lot of things and outspinning the vast majority of what remains. Good weight to it too (I'm using the premium returns mold). Plus it looks really, really cool.
Probably take a bit of practice to get used to getting metal flat to pass through the centre a couple of times consistently but it's capable of KOing a whole lot of things and outspinning the vast majority of what remains. Good weight to it too (I'm using the premium returns mold). Plus it looks really, really cool.
Um, is the "READ ME BEFORE MAKING A NEW THREAD!!" Ever gonna get updated? The combos in it need updating.
(Mar. 12, 2014 1:19 AM)TheLibraKing Wrote: Um, is the "READ ME BEFORE MAKING A NEW THREAD!!" Ever gonna get updated? The combos in it need updating.
IDK maybe when someone writes a suitably accurate updated version
The combinations in there are passable enough from memory so it's not a huge concern, but if you're really desperate for an update then work on writing one. Stick to combinations that are well known and relevant, blah blah blah, and if the result is good enough, when I get a chance I'll go over it and get Ingulit to put it up or he'll do it of his own accord or whatever.
A mod can edit it, no? Anyways, you get your wish Th!nk, I compiled a list (just Edited The Alchemist's list a whole lot).
is it not suitable?
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Objections?
is it not suitable?
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Spoiler (Click to View)
TAMINA:
Pegasis hasn't really been tested extensively in this cureent Meta yet to be up there at the moment IMO.
230 can be used on Earth IIRC.
I'm not sure about Byxis on Beat.
Earth is used best with Pegasis 3 and Hades, the others increase recoil from hits above.
Earth LTSC's ? Have they been tested enough?
I'm unsure about Jade Balance.
230 can be used on Earth IIRC.
I'm not sure about Byxis on Beat.
Earth is used best with Pegasis 3 and Hades, the others increase recoil from hits above.
Earth LTSC's ? Have they been tested enough?
I'm unsure about Jade Balance.
The metal system Pegasis? It's been tested enough to earn a spot IMO
Yeah, but Tri's are the only tests I know of that test it against current competitive combos.
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-H-Pegasis-145RF
I'm sure they're more, but I don't feel like digging through threads...
I'm sure they're more, but I don't feel like digging through threads...
Not to be rude, but only two of those tests utilize new combos found. And there both Stamina.
I was thinking about VS. Bakushin, Lightning H145, Burn 85MF, etc.
I was thinking about VS. Bakushin, Lightning H145, Burn 85MF, etc.
Who said they had to be new combos? 
Most of those combos are competitive...
EDIT: oh wait, do u mean the Pegasus combo? I thought you were referring to the combo he tested against. But still, CH120 in 145 mode is very similar to the 145 track and even plain 145 got pretty good/decent results.
Most of those combos are competitive...
EDIT: oh wait, do u mean the Pegasus combo? I thought you were referring to the combo he tested against. But still, CH120 in 145 mode is very similar to the 145 track and even plain 145 got pretty good/decent results.
Well, our main information is just based on the tests in 2010(or whenever MFB came to be) that is was competitive then, but needs tests against current competitive combos.
Yeah, but not all of the competitive combos have been tested...
Yeah, but not all of the competitive combos have been tested...