If you have a strong launch then yeah, you'll pretty much have guaranteed aggression. RB seemed to do it well for me yesterday against 1234beyblade, it was extremely aggro, but it was still controllable which is a serious problem. Also, whether it didn't last as long as the rubber flat's doesn't really matter, it was still very capable of KO'ing at the beginning of matches.

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If you have a strong launch then yeah, you'll pretty much have guaranteed aggression. RB seemed to do it well for me yesterday against 1234beyblade, it was extremely aggro, but it was still controllable which is a serious problem. Also, whether it didn't last as long as the rubber flat's doesn't really matter, it was still very capable of KO'ing at the beginning of matches.

U also forget combined with for example an Omega wheel or a lightning it has enough potential for late game KO's. Using RB is easy and controllable. If u add a strong launch it is very good to use. RSF has same characteristics but with less aggression. Though there are counters to it, most of the time it favours to RB/RSF. BTW me and LMAO will start testing either tomorrow or Wednesday :p

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Follow and Support!!: https://www.instagram.com/jesse.obre/

Libra is Mold 3 from the Super Deck set. CS is prime, RF is past prime, My RSF is the Metal Masters Ray Gil one (soft rubber, full crossbar, more rounded shape) and it is slightly past prime as well. RB is probably a little before prime.

MF Omega (Assault) Horuseus CH120RF vs. MF-H Libra R145CS
Horuseus: 9 wins (8 KO, 1 OS)
Libra: 11 wins (1 KO, 10 OS)
Horuseus win rate: 45%
This definitely would have been higher if my RF was in better condition. I had some trouble getting it to move aggressively, though that might make it a better comparison to RSF or RB.

MF Omega (Assault) Horuseus CH120RSF vs. MF-H Libra R145CS
Horuseus: 9 wins (all KO)
Libra: 11 wins (all OS)
3 ties redone
Horuseus win rate: 45%

MF Omega (Assault) Horuseus CH120RB vs. MF-H Libra R145CS
Horuseus: 8 wins (6 KO, 1 OS)
Libra: 12 wins (7 KO, 5 OS)
4 ties redone
Horuseus win rate: 40%
RB's recoil control still sucks. Maybe mine just isn't worn enough but it cannot catch the Tornado Ridge to save its life. All the ties were double KOs too.

So they do seem to be more problematic than I originally thought, though I still don't think it warrants a ban.

RB can't hardly catch the ridge even when slightly worn. Plus I've never seen it get aggressive enough to be used with Omega. RSF is another story, it has better recoil handling in my opinion and can also consistently be aggressive enough. I don't understand the talk of banning it though when RF is so much more reliable in my opinion.

Just realized after typing that how long its been since someone replied. I think the CC list needs more attention guys

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still posi

I'm not sure why you guys are having trouble with getting RB to catch the Tornado Ridge. Mine hangs on just fine; at least as well as RF if not better due the the increased controllability.

Also, regarding track heights for Defense:

Just a random thought: are MTDCs and HTDCs really fit for the tier-list?

I feel as they're KO'ed a lot more frequently than LTDCs

I kind of agree for MTDC, but LTDC and HTDC are still solid choices. With no BD145 or an other large disks in Limited, a lot of stuff is going to be pretty short. I feel like that works more against LTDCs because they will be making a lot more metal-on-metal contact, as opposed to say 230RB where you just hit the Spin Track. I can't really make a good point but it seems like it's better to go with one of the extremes rather than try to stay in the middle.

Honestly, I think that mid-track Defense is a joke or at least a niche combo. Omega, Dark Knight, and Lightning LTAC are all just plain brutal against anything 145ish, and I honestly can't think of a Defense combo using a 145 track that I couldn't beat >70% of the time with a good LTAC. The only places to go are super low or super high, and even then Omega still does a decent job against LTDC, and mid-track Attack will probably beat your average 230/TH220 Defense setup.

Also, Tri, I think most of the discussion for Limited is in the banlist discussion thread at the moment.

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Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

RB can't hardly catch the ridge even when slightly worn. Plus I've never seen it get aggressive enough to be used with Omega. RSF is another story, it has better recoil handling in my opinion and can also consistently be aggressive enough. I don't understand the talk of banning it though when RF is so much more reliable in my opinion.

Just realized after typing that how long its been since someone replied. I think the CC list needs more attention guys

If anything, the problem with RB is that it can self KO at times with how aggressive it is, that's really odd that yours can't catch the ridge.

RF is more reliable for complete aggression, but what RF lacks is the stamina capabilities that RB and RSF have that give it the upper hand when it comes to certain situations. They're just really versatile.

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I own three RB, and they all seem just to 'roll over' the ridge when it makes contact. I don't know, it is hard telling why mine won't catch it. I still think RF is more versatile in most situations. I've practiced ridiculous amounts with it though to where I can KO most common defense types with relative ease.

The only upper hand I see with RSF and RB is controlibilty, but that's the case for any other flat tip as well, and none KO as easily as RF. The sacrifice of stamina is well worth the higher win %.

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still posi

I own three RB, and they all seem just to 'roll over' the ridge when it makes contact. I don't know, it is hard telling why mine won't catch it. I still think RF is more versatile in most situations. I've practiced ridiculous amounts with it though to where I can KO most common defense types with relative ease.

The only upper hand I see with RSF and RB is controlibilty, but that's the case for any other flat tip as well, and none KO as easily as RF. The sacrifice of stamina is well worth the higher win %.

Try out Omega 100RSF against literally anything and watch Omega win haha, it's able to OS Libra TH170D.

Let's say you were to use Omega 90RF against a tall Libra defense/stamina type, it's likely you'd lose. But with Omega RSF you'd be able to easily OS.

Against other attackers, RSF/RB is amazing.

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Honestly, if you can't KO/destabilize something on D with any height, you need to work on your launch, haha. (Joking of course)

Any contact with Libra's underside using an aggressive combination really should give you the win. The only reason I could see otherwise is if recoil knocks you out first, which could a problem with either RSF or RF. I've seen RF/R2F OS Libra stamina just from the shere amount of hard hits it delivered. A good flower pattern can do some good.

BTW, as much as it seems like it, I'm not arguing against adding RSF (on the fence about RB), I'm just stating my opinion on its relaiabilty compared to RF.

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still posi

RF is more reliable for complete aggression, but what RF lacks is the stamina capabilities that RB and RSF have that give it the upper hand when it comes to certain situations. They're just really versatile.

There aren't many cases where I find RSF and RB to actually be used for out-spinning in attack, tbh. Paired with an attack wheel, you're not going to have any more of a chance at out-spinning other types than a RF. We actually saw this with Hubert's Omega RSF combo and my Scythe CH120RF a little while back. RSF in this case wasn't anymore capable of out-spinning Scythe than an RF would be.

I'd say they're versatile, definitely, but still not hard to counter.

If the two bottoms don't end up becoming banned (which I'm still very against), I've grown to like the two, but despite being more controllable, they'd probably still have issues against defense (LTDC in specific). Right now, however, we should be focusing on the Ban List before we decide on anything more for the tier-list, guys.

Try out Omega 100RSF against literally anything and watch Omega win haha, it's able to OS Libra TH170D.

it's still so insane to me lol

Redirecting discussion is okay if it is in the wrong place. We are talking about the competive customs list after all. The ban list is more of a priority but discussion here is still very fruitful.

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still posi

Wanted to bring up that Libra 230RS should be on the tier list, it's weird that it's not on there already. Does anyone have any arguments to not add Libra 230RS to the list?

After a bit of more testing, I've changed my mind on where I stand on an RSF/RB ban. Like Mitsu mentioned it is Versatile, yet it is still very beatable. Omega ____ 100RSF is easily beatable as it loses to literally any attacker, as well as heavy stamina customs.

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Scythe GB145RF (LMAO also mentioned CH120, but its already in balance. It should he moved to defense) should definitely be added to defense. It is probably the best choice for aggressive/mobile defense now that Libra is gone.

Scythe always launched first.

MF-H Scythe Cygnus GB145RF vs. MF-H Pegasis W145RF
Scythe: 11 wins (All KO)
Pegasis: 9 wins (All KO)

MF-H Scythe Cygnus GB145RF vs. MF-H Lightning L-Drago 90LRF
Scythe: 10 wins (All KO)
Lightning: 10 wins (All KO)

Benchmark
MF-H Libra CH120RF (145 Mode) vs. Pegasis W145RF
Libra: 16 wins (All KO)
Pegasis: 4 wins (All KO)

I didn't use GB145 with Libra in the benchmark because it didn't perform near as well like Scythe does with it.

MF-H Earth Cygnus GB145RF vs. MF-H Pegasis W145RF
Earth: 5 wins (All KO)
Pegasis: 15 wins (All KO)

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still posi

I believe this needs updating due to the new banned parts, sorry if I'm wrong.

I believe this needs updating due to the new banned parts, sorry if I'm wrong.

You're right for sure, but I think we're still deciding as to whether or whether not we're going to ban Jade to get everything in the same kind of weight group. It's pretty versatile just like Libra also, so it may be a good choice overall.


Also, can we all agree that MTDCs shouldn't be on the list anymore? They're OK, but they just don't get the job done like LTDCs do. Libra added more weight to MTDCs which made them a bit better, but even then, they're still are quite easy to KO. Especially now with it gone, however, it's maybe a good time to maybe remove them.

I believe this needs updating due to the new banned parts, sorry if I'm wrong.

This.

Can we at least rush a quick update where all the banned parts get removed? Finalizing exactly what combos make the list or get removed from the list takes a looong time, but we can really just immediately knock all of the Libra and Omega combos off the list without a lot of fuss.

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Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

So if Bakushin is on the list, could Ray have potential as well? Wouldn't Virgo be a contender for stamina?

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Nothing to see here, just waiting for my death -_-

So if Bakushin is on the list, could Ray have potential as well? Wouldn't Virgo be a contender for stamina?

Ray is definitely a part that hasn't been tested into detail recently, but there are definitely wheels that are known to outclass it.

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Also, true lion gale force wall and fee-hee-heenay call

Man I wish these treads were more active

It's a shame that Limited Format is the least popular of the three... especially since it's essentially meant for the early MFB beys.

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Nothing to see here, just waiting for my death -_-

Man I wish these treads were more active

It's a shame that Limited Format is the least popular of the three... especially since it's essentially meant for the early MFB beys.

I'm not sure it's that limited is less popular (they aren't really any statistics or anything but I'm fairly certain a decent amount of players actually like limited), but I think a main reason that all the MFB format threads kinda lack post wise is that burst is a new and fresh meta, and while MFB is interesting and all it is a bit more interesting to try something new and a game that is a little more open since it is still new.

We actually probably could run the stats on that due to Kei's great work with recording tournament data :'D

That would be awesome Brad

If Standard is indeed more popular (from the looks of it, it always has been) than Limited, then we can assume that it's because most Bladers don't like "limitations" on the parts they can use. If a certain part is really good, they're going to want to use it. And there's also teh argument that 4D is better than regular MFB (however I don't like the crazy mode changes), and many 4D wheels are banned... and also Zero-G... which is a thing. And now with Burst, MFB as a whole is being bypassed, doomed to suffer the same fate as past Beyblade generations. I, have always considered MFB to be "my generation," but only because I wasn't allowed to get any beys when G-Revolution was still happening, because I was "too young."

Now I know how you all feel

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Nothing to see here, just waiting for my death -_-

Does anyone else think we should consider adding Scythe (Short Track) MF? @[Time] recently swept ICY BOTTOMS with it, and earlier this year at Before the Burst @[Angry Face] did the same (although the Limited tournament was unofficial). He also used it a few times in Enter: The Termibeytor and placed second.

I think it's definitely top-tier material, we just need some more testing to iron out which parts work best (aside from Scythe and MF).

@[Wombat] @[Angry Face] While I'm personally a huge fan of the combo, I think people may have the same concerns (that I personally think shouldn't prevent a combo from being added to the tier list) that have prevented GF combos from going up in Standard. That it takes a great deal of skill with to see outstanding results (in my opinion this is an argument for not banning it, not keeping it off the tier list). I used about five different launch techniques with it in the last tournament in order to go undefeated. Getting a truly powerful stall and playing with the launch height of a combo are not particularly easy for everyone.

A skill block shouldn't disallow something from being on the tier list. If that were the case, then attack wouldn't even be on the tier list. It's not like everyone can successfully do a sliding shoot.

I've never really tried Scythe MF as far as I can remember. What specific combinations were they? I could do some tests with it sometime soon.

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still posi