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Lost Longinus & Beast Behemoth Tests

Jan. 24, 2017  11:13 PM
 
Lost Longinus Polish Hold vs. Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Lost Longinus: 3 (1 OS, 2 KO)
Dark Deathscyther: 7 (OS, 1 Burst)


Lost Longinus Heavy Hold vs. Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Lost Longinus: 1 (OS)
Dark Deathscyther: 5 (OS)


Lost Longinus Heavy Defense vs. Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Lost Longinus: 0
Dark Deathscyther: 5 (OS)


Lost Longinus Heavy Blow vs. Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Lost Longinus: 0
Dark Deathscyther: 5 (OS)


Lost Longinus Heavy Xtreme vs. Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Lost Longinus: 4 (1 Burst, 3 KO)
Dark Deathscyther: 6 (OS)


What we can see from these is that Lost Longinus has potential strictly as an Attacker and is horrible at spin stealing actually...


Beast Behemoth Heavy Xtreme vs. Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Beast Behemoth: 0
Dark Deathscyther: 5 (OS)

Beast Behemoth Heavy Defense vs. Dark Deathscyther Heavy Defense
Beast Behemoth: 0
Dark Deathscyther: 5 (OS)
Jan. 25, 2017  12:27 AM
 
Results not looking so good for either layer. Strange, considering L2KX managed to absolutely wreck D2GO in one of my finals matches. I would've thought L2HX would have better success.

Was this D2 the light blue one everyone is raging about?
Jan. 25, 2017  12:30 AM
 
No, it was the black one. And certainly Lost Longinus on Xtreme was the one combination with which I got good results, but I do not know how reliable it is. Still, it could be like any other top-tier Attacker at this point.
Jan. 25, 2017  12:32 AM
 
It has like two small left pointing protrusions so i'm not sure everyone was expecting honestly.
Jan. 25, 2017  6:20 AM
 
I am still really skeptical about using Hold or Blow at all. Hold is just a bunch of stalling, which is super pointless against D2, a layer that relies on spin finishes. Blow, on the other hand, suffers balancing issues, a weakness that D2 can easily exploit.
Jan. 25, 2017  8:31 AM
 
(Jan. 25, 2017  6:20 AM)Bastillon Wrote: I am still really skeptical about using Hold or Blow at all. Hold is just a bunch of stalling, which is super pointless against D2, a layer that relies on spin finishes. Blow, on the other hand, suffers balancing issues, a weakness that D2 can easily exploit.

Lost Longinus is left spin so due to hold's CF like shape and free spinning tip should provide more precession/LAD to OS opposing spin. But seems like L2's shape making it unable to spin steal properly

thanks for test Kai-V. I would like to see more test from other attack drivers 

Esspecially Assualt because it had enough speed to Push KO opposing while retaining it's stamina and it's width will help to OS opponent
Jan. 25, 2017  9:34 AM
 
Your results with Lost Longinus on Hold seem to be the opposite of mine... I could get it to outspin Heavy Defense setups at least more consistently than that, and I recall Sniper actually 3-0ed one using L2GH. The only things I found that L2SH couldn't outspin with some form of consistency were Revolve and oddly enough Vertical Gyro.  I also found Lost Longinus Spread Revolve to be good as well, and L2 Revolve was also particularly popular at the MD tournament. Have you considered using Spread/Ring/Infinity instead, as they actually provide it with LAD? How are you launching Hold?

As unpopular as this opinion may sound, I agree with Ultra about not expecting much out of L2 for Attack. It is simply at a disadvantage in both forms of attack due to its spin direction, and it doesn't help that Weak Launching is more prevalent in Burst than it was in MFB. I've actually already discussed this with Manicben, and it seems that the reason he lost in that battle was because he did not weak launch D2GO.
Jan. 25, 2017  5:23 PM
 
Can you try B2 on Blow or Impact
Jan. 26, 2017  4:57 AM
 
(Jan. 25, 2017  8:31 AM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Lost Longinus is left spin so due to hold's CF like shape and free spinning tip should provide more precession/LAD to OS opposing spin. But seems like L2's shape making it unable to spin steal properly
The CF like shape is exactly what causes it to burn a lot of stamina unnecessarily by landing on the tornado ridge (absolutely poor inclination angle provided by the stadium). If it's LAD you're looking for (which is not exactly useful most of the time) , Revolve would probably be a better choice.
Jan. 26, 2017  8:41 AM
 
(Jan. 26, 2017  4:57 AM)Bastillon Wrote: The CF like shape is exactly what causes it to burn a lot of stamina unnecessarily by landing on the tornado ridge (absolutely poor inclination angle provided by the stadium). If it's LAD you're looking for (which is not exactly useful most of the time) , Revolve would probably be a better choice.

well as long as it's making contact with it's opponenet, it doesn't need as much stamina in opposite spin matches as it's already spin stealing from opponent so it won't run out of stamina as long as it can keep itself upright and keep making contact with opponent

In MFB too there was some spin-stealers which as based on low stamina tips like GF and RDF but they can OS stamina tips like EWD and BD

Edit:- The thing that Revolve and Hold has is "Precession" not LAD, because LAD means beyblade's ability to keep spinning (or atleast roll) after falling over on side (or after it's precession ends). LAD would be what Spread (ring and few other) disk have as they can rolll after bey fall on to it's side
Jan. 26, 2017  9:52 AM
 
(Jan. 26, 2017  8:41 AM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: -snip-
I seriously don't see how Hold can make contact with the opposing bey since it just wanders off most of the time and a flower pattern is nigh impossible to sustain. When it actually comes in contact, it's already super wobbly and losing balance. Also, I think L2 should be weak launched for maximum visible effect in another set of test values, instead of integrating everything into one massive bunch. One set for spin stealing, the other for attack potential.

Also, I'd like a test with L2GW and see if the extra weight can be useful in stamina combos.
Jan. 26, 2017  10:17 AM
 
(Jan. 26, 2017  9:52 AM)Bastillon Wrote: I seriously don't see how Hold can make contact with the opposing bey since it just wanders off most of the time and a flower pattern is nigh impossible to sustain. When it actually comes in contact, it's already super wobbly and losing balance. Also, I think L2 should be weak launched for maximum visible effect in another set of test values, instead of integrating everything into one massive bunch. One set for spin stealing, the other for attack potential.

Also, I'd like a test with L2GW and see if the extra weight can be useful in stamina combos.

Well even if it becomes a tornado ridge monster at high speed. it will come toward middle some day when it's speed slows down. Note that as it's opposite spin it will get faster after making contact with other bey so it should regain balance as it spin steal (p.s. I don't own ethier of those 2 beys so I'm not sure about there performance. Just saying by logic based on my experince with opposite spin MFB)
Jan. 26, 2017  3:26 PM
 
It is horrible at stealing spin though, so the most I ever got was a very arguable tie, where Lost Longinus would cease spinning very abruptly while Dark Deathscyther was slowing down several seconds ago already.

Keep in mind that I tried launching weakly, launching at full power, etc. and that I always launched Dark Deathscyther first... Anyway, I will try to conduct more tests today.
Jan. 27, 2017  9:22 PM
 
Can someone try L2KV? (all teeths of Variable's tip should be worn out)

It will be like GF tip from MFB and we all know how good it for for spin equalizing. It has super fast speed too so maybe it will be enough to KO most of beys (or do that wall hitting launch. Lol not sure what it's called)
Jan. 29, 2017  1:14 PM
 
(Jan. 26, 2017  10:17 AM)FIREFIRE CPB Wrote: Well even if it becomes a tornado ridge monster at high speed. it will come toward middle some day when it's speed slows down. Note that as it's opposite spin it will get faster after making contact with other bey so it should regain balance as it spin steal (p.s. I don't own ethier of those 2 beys so I'm not sure about there performance. Just saying by logic based on my experince with opposite spin MFB)

It's kind of a sticky situation, because spin stealing can be very difficult without enough stamina in the first place. I've handspun DSR with left rotation against a lot of other beys such as B2GC or K2GO at different angles and strengths, and the results seem to agree with this hypothesis. The force that I apply to the bey is indeed larger whenever DSR can outspin a bey launched with a long winder.

Side note here, Hold does not possess the same balance problems Revolve may have and is arguably better at spin steal. However, it would probably be safer with Revolve since there's way more stamina with it than Hold. I'd probably go with Revolve first if I had L2.
Jan. 29, 2017  2:02 PM
 
for the people that believe that you need rubber for spin stealing you dont just spin something counter clockwise and something else clockwise and the counter clockwise bey will SOMETIMES win
Jan. 30, 2017  6:32 AM
 
Wow, tournament atmosphere really changes the outcome. For what it is worth, I went undefeated in today's unranked tournament in Montréal except when facing Brad. Especially since it was unranked, I decided to use only Lost Longinus Gravity Hold, to see. All I had to do was weak launch, except against Dark Deathscyther, where it was clear that there was nothing to be gained from such a round Dual Layer. Actually, even launching at full or higher strength against Dark Deathscyther does not guarantee a victory at all, hence why I lost most of the times. It was sometimes a light blue or yellow Dark Deathscyther, but not always. I also tried to glance at whether it was supposed to have burst right before it was picked up but it seemed all good.

However, I am convinced that I won so much only because I was the only one there who owned a Lost Longinus so far, so I had the novelty advantage. Even afterwards, nobody really could find something to counter Lost Longinus reliably, but loyd87 and I really think that it is a matter of adjusting your launch power or using a combination which offers as much variety as Lost Longinus. Whereas you can win with Lost Longinus by either weak launching it or launching it at full strength within the same BeyBattle, there is no reason that lowering your own, right-spin Beyblade would not make the same effect against Lost Longinus. Likewise, if you use a Beyblade on Trans that can also follow the Tornado Ridge and try to beat Lost Longinus at its own game, you can have a chance. In my home tests, Odin Spread Trans had a surprisingly good centre of gravity and was able to win sometimes against Lost Longinus.
Jan. 30, 2017  9:31 AM
 
(Jan. 30, 2017  6:32 AM)Kai-V Wrote: -snip-
Looks like D2 would be a great L2 counter then. Are you sure that absolutely no one else used D2? It's a bit too popular to give up at the moment. I'd also try it against DSR for spin stealing once I finally get that L2 layer two days later.
Feb. 01, 2017  3:53 PM
 
Tested with kai-v at the last tournament and like she said it depend on how strong both players launch.

I find easier to get a good chance to beat l2gh with d2gh and with my k2rg.

I felt that free spin can help a lot to balance your chance of winning.

I notice too my hold driver seems a lil different from Kai-v's one. Mine still be more passive and work a lil like gyro at the end of the battle.

We get a closer look on that. We have seen, Kai-v hold was totaly flat and mine get a lil rounded tip. At start the are absolutly identical. They stall greatly but when they slow down, Kai-v's hold keep a certain movement in the middle mine is just sitting and wait to be hitted on its free spin like stamina or defense type.

Has anyone got that differense? Or i just get an exception.(defective part or not totaly as supposed to be)

Edit:
I have tested a lul b2 but i only tried b2tx and its really aggressive. Pretty interesting attack combo with b2

When i tested it my xtrem was brand new and from o2 (yellow tip) and find somme differense with the original xtreme from xcalibur and really easir to get the flower pattern unless its new. Its from my own experience at the last tournament.
Feb. 02, 2017  1:10 PM
 
*Deathscyther layer has slightly worn teeth
[u][b][u] Lost Longinus Spread Hold (L2 weak launch) vs [b][i][u]Beast Behemoth Gravity Orbit[/u][/b][/u][/u][/i][/b]
L2SH: 8 (4 KO, 4 SF)
[u]B2GO: 4 (4 SF)[/u]
Draw: 8 (8 Double SF)


Lost Longinus Gravity Hold vs Deathscyther Spread Revolve (Regular launch)
L2GH: 6 (4 BF, 2 KO)
DSR: 14 (**2 KO, 12 SF)
Draws: 0
**Both knockouts are from L2GH going berserk and self-KOing. I was first skeptical and assumed that it was just due to a bad launch, but several other launches suggested otherwise.

Lost Longinus Gravity Hold vs Deathscyther Spread Revolve (L2 weak launch)
L2GH: 7 (6 BF, 1 KO)
DSR: 10 (10 SF)
Draws: 3 (3 Double SF)

***L2_H has the weakness of not being able to spin steal due to the opposing bey not having the layer at the exact same level as L2, giving beys capable of tilting over such as DSR an advantage.

*Lost Longinus Spread Hold vs Dark Deathscyther Gravity Revolve (L2 weak launch)
L2SH: 4 (2 BF, 1 KO, 1 SF)
D2GR: 12 (12 SF)
Draws: 4 (4 Double SF)
*D2GR cannot be tilted easily like DSR, giving L2SH a slight advantage.

*Lost Longinus Spread Hold vs Dark Deathscyther Gravity Revolve (Regular launch)
L2SH: 5 (2 BF, 3 KO)
D2GR: 9 (9 SF)
Draws: 6 (6 Double SF)
*D2GR did tilt this time, since it received a much larger impact force.

And as per request from @[FIREFIRE CPB],
**Lost Longinus Knuckle Variable (completely worn) vs Dark Deathscyther Gravity Orbit (Regular launch)
L2KV: 7 (1 SF, 6 KO)
D2GO: 12 (11 SF, *1 KO)
Draws: 1 (1 Double SF)
*L2KV self-KO
** The entire matchup is simply a "hit or miss" situation. While L2KV is generally successful at knocking D2GO around and sending it flying across the stadium, it fails at knocking D2GO out of the stadium mainly because it generally fails to maintain a flower pattern. To avoid breaking the fragile string launcher, I cannot perform banking with a 60-70 degree angle below horizontal like I usually do with a normal long winder. Moreover, D2GO itself is very difficult to knock over, kicking L2KV out of the game when it comes to spin finishes.
Feb. 02, 2017  6:10 PM
 
I have to state that l2 is like difficult to test and use these results as mfb test could be done. If you retry these test with a partner you'll have some big change in results.

Purely my opinion but most of my test isnt does great in real situation. So i keep some doubt on these test with what ive seen last weekend with kai-v
Feb. 02, 2017  8:14 PM
 
I tested L2 a lot in the lead up to WELCOME TO A&C GAMES II. My top priority was to test it against as many of the top-tier competitive combos as possible (particularly Stamina/Defense). I primarily tested against Wyvern, Deathscyther, Neptune, and Odin on Revolve, D2 on Defense, and also things like Minoboros Knuckle Zephyr and Victory Valkyrie Gravity Zephyr which are popular in Toronto right now.

I immediately began by trying to make the heaviest combination I could: Lost Longinus Heavy Weight (red Heavy, as it is my heaviest one). Throughout my tests I was able to find that it had good defensive ability in terms of being able to resist bursting, and both OS or KO Attackers. What surprised me the most however was how easily I was able to KO Odin and Neptune on Revolve with it. L2HW was not as successful against Wyvern and Deathscyther on Revolve, and D2 on Defense though.

I also did a lot of testing with L2 on Xtreme and ultimately found that overall in terms of its effectiveness against these layers, it went like this from most effective to least effective against:

1. Odin/Neptune
2. Deathscyther/Wyvern
3. Dark Deathscyther

So as the results here illustrate, L2 does have a hard time against D2 generally. But it can more easily defeat the other Layers above it on the list, particularly on Xtreme. Even though D2 does well against it, I feel like L2 probably has the highest Smash Attack power in the game right now (perhaps boosted by relative light-weight of every other Layer), so much so that I was often frustrated with it KOing Beyblades so powerfully that they bounced back in ... Really wish those outer walls on the exits weren't there haha. Still, with a good shot, I think L2 on Xtreme is deadly.

I tested L2 on Hold a little bit and while I did find the combo fun, from everything I saw and have seen from others, it really doesn't seem consistent enough to be competitive. Maybe there is some different in Hold Drivers though, as clearly some people have had success with ti.

And Spread is probably the best Disk to use with L2 if you want that added Stamina, but the realistic applications of this for any real benefit are limited. I did find some success with L2SW and L2SR OSing OHR, though ... so it's worth experimenting with for sure.
Feb. 02, 2017  8:37 PM
 
Did you weak launch on Hold at all? It is basically mandatory.
Feb. 02, 2017  9:51 PM
 
(Feb. 02, 2017  1:10 PM)Bastillon Wrote: And as per request from @[FIREFIRE CPB],
**Lost Longinus Knuckle Variable (completely worn) vs Dark Deathscyther Gravity Orbit (Regular launch)
L2KV: 7 (1 SF, 6 KO)
D2GO: 12 (11 SF, *1 KO)
Draws: 1 (1 Double SF)
*L2KV self-KO
** The entire matchup is simply a "hit or miss" situation. While L2KV is generally successful at knocking D2GO around and sending it flying across the stadium, it fails at knocking D2GO out of the stadium mainly because it generally fails to maintain a flower pattern. To avoid breaking the fragile string launcher, I cannot perform banking with a 60-70 degree angle below horizontal like I usually do with a normal long winder. Moreover, D2GO itself is very difficult to knock over, kicking L2KV out of the game when it comes to spin finishes.

Thanks alot for testing it. I really appricate it

wow despite not able to keep floor pattern and stuff. It did pretty decently (more then I expected). Just asking how you were launching? How fast and which side you banking?

I prefer to launch it at full speed with banking toward left (or which ever angle it directly hits wall) to make it hit wall and like bouce back and KO opposing. This way L2 can hit with fastest speed it can move (of speed it launched) and KO opponent.
Feb. 02, 2017  9:53 PM
 
B2HX vs OHD
B2HX-12 wins (7BF, 5KO)
OHD-8 wins (5OS, 3KO)

the ones where OHD KO'd B2, were cases, where OHD was in the centre, B2 hit it, and B2 just KO'd itself. The times where it outspun it were just cases, i messed up the my launch, however in these instances OHD only had 1 click left.

B2 just doesn't work against D2, i tried some mock battles, but D2 wins 90%+ of the matches.

B2 has the potential to burst D2, as it can make D2 lose clicks, but can't fully burst it. Hopefully a softer RF can help, if it is ever released.

had some mock battles with B2HX, against DHD, WSO, K2SO. seems to do good against these, will post results.

will test L2, and will try to find a way to beat D2 with it, there's got to be some way to beat D2 with L2, probably with an unconventional combo.
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