Hopefully then RS will be able to make more viable top tier defence combos. Also LVJ could you see how MF Pisces GB145RS does against some attack combos if you've got a pisces?
Libra Re-instatement Discussion
I think RS would preform much better with wide heavy wheels (burn, maybe pisces?) than compact ones like Earth.
EDIT: Agree with megablader.
EDIT: Agree with megablader.
I hope RS will bring back defence as being usable cause Defence is very lacking atm with only one properly viable wheel which can't stand up decently to most of the new attack combo's. I'm hoping that RS that make alright defence wheels usable in defence combos eg pisces, virgo and gemios. I also hope grand is a good defence wheel. LVJ could you please test this out?
I don't have time to respond to everything in this thread right now, but I should mention something that I think a lot of you are neglecting to consider; whenever doing any tests involving an Attack type, there is always a certain percentage variable, usually negative, to consider that should be applied in Tournament situations. There is not very many Bladers who are skilled or confident enough to use Attack types in competitive situations, and thus, when they do, the win percentage of the Attack type is lowered.
Test results often end up being skewed in Tournament situations, and I know there is a lot of Bladers who can attest to that.
Test results often end up being skewed in Tournament situations, and I know there is a lot of Bladers who can attest to that.
![[Image: beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/VLksgt2k/beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg)
(Aug. 15, 2010 4:55 AM)Kei Wrote: I don't have time to respond to everything in this thread right now, but I should mention something that I think a lot of you are neglecting to consider; whenever doing any tests involving an Attack type, there is always a certain percentage variable, usually negative, to consider that should be applied in Tournament situations. There is not very many Bladers who are skilled or confident enough to use Attack types in competitive situations, and thus, when they do, the win percentage of the Attack type is lowered.
Just adding to Kei's post:
Also, if you were at BoG or hund around you should very well know this.
The majority of bladers were all using stamina or defence combos.
I don't recall facing an attack type in a offical match.
I still don't think tournament pressure is worth accounting for.
And if everyone is using stamina for the most part anyways, then why should it matter if someone brings out libra?
And if everyone is using stamina for the most part anyways, then why should it matter if someone brings out libra?
lol U.S.A.
I'm not trying to pass judgement on anyone, nor am I attempting to throw your arguments off a cliff, I'm just trying to speak from an unbiased and competitive standpoint.
And if I were to enter I'd probably lose hardcore because I have like no MFB.
I'm not trying to pass judgement on anyone, nor am I attempting to throw your arguments off a cliff, I'm just trying to speak from an unbiased and competitive standpoint.
And if I were to enter I'd probably lose hardcore because I have like no MFB.
(Aug. 15, 2010 5:47 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: I still don't think tournament pressure is worth accounting for.
And if everyone is using stamina for the most part anyways, then why should it matter if someone brings out libra?
It's not so much tournament "pressure" (though, I do guess that exists for some Bladers). It's more so the undeniable fact that most Bladers suck with Attack types, and even the Bladers who are good with them are still taking a higher risk than the one who is not.
I agree about the risk factor, but I don't see how it's so hard to tilt your hand when you launch at a tournament vs. at home.
And you can always use MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS and use a straight shot, and let the opponent hit it into attack mode.
And for Libra, I still don't understand why it matters, people could either be good enough with attack types to beat it, or they suck with attack types and always pick stamina types anyways and win.
And you can always use MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS and use a straight shot, and let the opponent hit it into attack mode.
And for Libra, I still don't understand why it matters, people could either be good enough with attack types to beat it, or they suck with attack types and always pick stamina types anyways and win.
If only it was that simple. Libra was top tier for everything though... So you could beat anything with Libra with attack defense and stamina combo...
Please tell me how Libra was top-tier stamina.
(Aug. 15, 2010 7:02 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: I agree about the risk factor, but I don't see how it's so hard to tilt your hand when you launch at a tournament vs. at home.
And you can always use MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS and use a straight shot, and let the opponent hit it into attack mode.
And for Libra, I still don't understand why it matters, people could either be good enough with attack types to beat it, or they suck with attack types and always pick stamina types anyways and win.
As someone who plays at home or with freinds only using attack types i can tell you that the luck factor in using them is wayyyy higher then using a deffence or stamina combo.
If you launch an attack combo using RF 20 times with a perfect sliding shoot i can guarantee that either half or just under half of those launches will self ko.Which tbh has nothing to do with how skilled the blader is because essentially it is just luck.
Also when people test attack combos they rarely mention self ko's or count them in there testing, so realisticly the win percentage is much lower then what is posted. Although it is fair not to count self ko's because they dont show anything other then you had some bad luck.But the luck factor is huge and that cannot be deined.Idk if you saw the video from BRC but i think it was kei using Quetz 90RF in the finals, was doing a sliding shoot but had alot of bad luck and self ko'd multiple times.
Also what you said about using MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS with just a straight shot, this is still quite risky because there is no guarantee that it will take a big enough bump to actully switch to an attack combo. I did alot of testing with Flame sag 90CS and Rock Leone 90CS agaisnt both stamia and deffence combos and i can tell you from those 40+ battles with just straight shots CS never once switched by its self long enough to be considered attacking i think the longest it stayed attacking was like 15seconds.
Another problem with just doing a straight shoot with CS is that even if it somehow does into attack mode for a long enough it wont be spinning in an attacking movement pattern, it will just be circling the stadium and wont be getting many hits in if any.
Also if people dont belive any of this try it out for yourselfs and youll see what i mean.
That is the huge problem with bring back the libra wheel, it discourages the use of attack combos and basicly makes deffence and stamina the only viable option. Also look at how many combos have came out pretty much as a direct result of libra being banned.The trade off of banning 1 wheel to alow alot wide range of parts to become useable imo makes it worth it.
Also i understand that the deffence game is somewhat empty with only 1 metal wheel being used for it but tbh people should be trying new combos for deffence since it seems most the focus on combos atm is either attack or balence.
But this is the main question i wanna ask other members to think about, would you rather bring back one wheel and make alot of parts not viable again?Or keep it banned alowing more parts to be viable and try and find a new deffence combos?
(Aug. 15, 2010 7:29 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: Please tell me how Libra was top-tier stamina.
double post but, when i joined back last year libra DF145D/SD/B was a top tier stamina combo
![[Image: Raykon-Flash-Signature.gif]](https://dmsss.webs.com/Raykon-Flash-Signature.gif)
libra has a briliant stamina but can be better with a ch120 track
Dirge Wrote:If you launch an attack combo using RF 20 times with a perfect sliding shoot i can guarantee that either half or just under half of those launches will self ko.Which tbh has nothing to do with how skilled the blader is because essentially it is just luck.LOL
If this were true, attack types would be utter garbage, which they aren't, and Libra CH120RF would not have been top tier.
Please note also that libra was top tier stamina LAST YEAR, with the B bottom as an option.
Many new stamina wheels have certainly outclassed it.
The thing is, people keep basing their posts off of the same hollow logic that "Banning Libra has opened up new options in the metagame". This isn't necessarily true, people started to experiment more, and thats at least partially how new types developed. It's just people branching out and experimenting, instead of falling into a rut, such as we are now. The competitive combos thread really needs updated, but it hasn't, so people are mistakenly using combos that I would say are even the best. There's plenty of parts with unexplored potential, and I think the game has reached a point where there are enough releases to counter Libra. In fact, without Libra, the metagame suffers, as defense is a sub-par type, with terrible win rates against the type of customizations it's supposed to be good against.
Note, I am not speaking about Libra CH120RF here at all, I have no opinion on that as I have not seen it or used it.
EDIT: That's how CS is supposed to work, btw.
Mc Frown you assume libra was never top tier stamina when you joined in April.. Also FYI Libra could beat some top tier stamina combos and it is not extremely outclassed as you say. I'm also 100% sure that you don't have tests to back up what you just said.
You haven't backed up with tests either.
No double standard please.
Check out the MF Pegasis 145RF thread, do believe there's tests vs. Libra there, where Libra gets decimated.
And I'm almost going to garuntee you that compared to the likes of Earth and Burn, Libra would get destroyed in stamina battles.
I never said Libra wasn't ever top-tier stamina, but that it wouldn't be now.
Never said Libra was extremely outclassed either, don't put words in my mouth.
No double standard please.
Check out the MF Pegasis 145RF thread, do believe there's tests vs. Libra there, where Libra gets decimated.
And I'm almost going to garuntee you that compared to the likes of Earth and Burn, Libra would get destroyed in stamina battles.
I never said Libra wasn't ever top-tier stamina, but that it wouldn't be now.
Never said Libra was extremely outclassed either, don't put words in my mouth.
Back it up with tests. Also, my tests are why libra was top tier stamina... I don't need tests. My part of the statement was backed up already.. You are the one making the counter-statement so you should be backing it up not me, I'm stating facts.
No it's not.
Any results for stamina from a year ago are null and void.
And I'll be back with tests in a minute or two.
Any results for stamina from a year ago are null and void.
And I'll be back with tests in a minute or two.
It wasn't a year ago, it was actually just a couple of months ago.
(Aug. 07, 2010 4:04 AM)Jerf Wrote: Series of Testing with MF Pegasis 145(+variants)RFPlease note I was here "just a couple of months ago", and that I joined before the rules were revised to ban Libra.
Attack Type Stadium
Beylauncher
Pegasis Launched Second: Banking
Not-too-worn RF
Earths are second mold
MF+145 (Click to View)
MF+DF145 (Click to View)
But were talking about stamina and attack too...
EDIT: Also against high tracks you're supposed to use GB145 for extra weight so we never know.
EDIT: Also against high tracks you're supposed to use GB145 for extra weight so we never know.
No one tests vs. Libra as Stamina or Attack.
Libra was never on the competitive combos thread as an attack type, and we'll probably find out about stamina soon.
Also, one last note on Beywiki, go read some of the Pre-HWS articles, they're so horribly flawed it's not even funny.
Specifically the one on Pegasis.
Libra was never on the competitive combos thread as an attack type, and we'll probably find out about stamina soon.
Also, one last note on Beywiki, go read some of the Pre-HWS articles, they're so horribly flawed it's not even funny.
Specifically the one on Pegasis.
Hah, totally just remembered that I already did Libra as Stamina tests before when testing Burn.
(Jun. 12, 2010 12:10 AM)Daegor42 Wrote: Burn Bull DF145SD vs Libra DF145SD
MFB Attack Stadium
Hasbro String Launcher + Launcher Grip
Alternating Launches
Burn Bull DF145SD gets first launch
Burn Bull DF145SD wins: 12Detailed Test Results (Click to View)
Libra DF145SD wins: 6
Ties: 2
Well that settles that.