Plus, you don't ban things from competitive play to bring them back with no real reason. If it was like "The current state of Beyblade parts allows us to actually play against Libra in a competitive setting and not loose all of the time and have a equal and fair win ratio." then I could see you talking about bringing it back. For now I really think it should just stay banned.

I wouldn't agree with this. I think we've discovered enough good quality, attacking options to now reconsider this; Pegasis, Ray, L Drago and to a smaller extent, Lightning, have all come into particular prominence since the ban was introduced.

BTW, don't tell people who haven't played with Libra to butt out. It's a VERY easy situation to comprehend you just like to go about things in an overly complicated fashion.

It's not. In the initial poll we had to canvas opinion on Libra's ban, nearly everybody who voted for the ban were advanced members who had seen, first-hand, the skewing which had occurred in the metagame with its presence. It's an indictment of the level of understanding required to discuss this - I'm not intentionally demeaning anyone who voted against the ban, but I am saying that when discussing such things, it is vital to actually both own the part, and to have the knowledge to understand the outstretching ramifications of rule changes.

As a disclaimer though, I have no current viewpoint on Libra's reintroduction; I merely think it's interesting to see discussion and opinion on it.

But <3 if you do the research and look into everything well enough you should be able to form a well educated opinion even if you do not own the part.

Do any of the parts you have mention actually do well against Libra? If so I would actually have a more open opinion towards actually bringing it back.

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Do any of the parts you have mention actually do well against Libra?

Pegasis 145RF is a Libra killer. I'm not stating a stand in this issue, I'm just pointing the combo's strength.

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I remember MF Pegasis 145RF destroying Libra in Jerf's tests.

80% win rate. My tests with it were more like 60%, but I stink at attack.

EDIT: Video showing that Libra can get tossed around easily by Pegasis. It only won because of some lucky wall saves.
EDIT 2: Jerf's video

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Certain combos do better against Libra than they do Earth.

Also, thanks for saying 'you' like to go about stuff retardedly.

But <3 if you do the research and look into everything well enough you should be able to form a well educated opinion even if you do not own the part.

I thought Quetz 90RF was amazing because of it's reputation, but I can't use it... same goes for any combination using WF.

Speaking as a person who just witnessed several dozen Stamina vs Stamina battles... please no Libra.

Earth mold 1 and 2 can both outspin Libra - might have been due to SD conditions, I can't remember... long time ago.


__________________

The Pegasis combo is indeed able to bang Libra around, and that's without a weight limit.

Also, when I tried the Libra CH120RF combo, the results weren't great... results are in this thread somewhere.

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Earth mold 1 and 2 can both outspin Libra - might have been due to SD conditions, I can't remember... long time ago.

Oh, I know. It's just that before the ban, most people used Stamina customs to beat Libra. I can see how that's less of a problem now with all the new Attack combos, but I can still see people resorting to Stamina. Attack is still kinda risky in tournaments.

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Libra CH120RF - MF Earth Bull R145WB:
8 - 12

Libra CH120RF - Earth Bull DF145SD:
5 - 15

These results are very interesting, though to be honest I’m not that surprised. Libra’s dominance over defence customs is slowly but surely coming to an end, though with that being said I can still see there being a place in the game for the Libra wheel as being used as a counter to low fast attackers. I’ve conducted some tests of my own that reaffirm this.


MF Libra CH120RF VS MF Earth Giraffe (II Mold) R145WB;
5 - 15: Libra's win rate 25%
*All of Libra’s wins were through KO, while Earth’s are from outspin.


MF Libra 90RF VS MF Earth Giraffe (II Mold) R145WB;
5 - 15: Libra's win rate 25%
*All of Libra’s wins were through KO, while Earth’s are from outspin.


MF Lightning L Drago 90RF VS Earth Giraffe (II Mold) R145 WB;
16 - 4: LL Drago's win rate 80%
*All of LL Drago’s wins were through KO, while Earth’s are from outspin.


MF Libra CH120RF VS MF Lightning L Drago 90RF;
*Due to the significant loss of stamina from a beyblade using an RF bottom and the unfair advantage that arises when an RF bottom blade is launched first, I’ve conducted 2 sets of testing with each set consisting of 20 battles. 1 beyblade is launched first continuously through out each set of testing, once the results of the first set of testing have been achieved the blades are rotated; henceforth the blade which was launched first through set one is now launched secondly through out the second set in order to achieve a better degree of testing.

Libra Launched First;
10 - 10: Libra's win rate 50%

LL Drago Launched First;
9 - 11: Libra's win rate 45%
*Two of LL Drago’s wins were through outspin while the remaining were through KO.

MF Libra 90RF VS MF Lightning L Drago 90RF
13 - 7: Libra's win rate 65%
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I've conducted further testing of Libra in another thread as well...
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Testing-...le-Customs

Wow, you put a lot of work into this. Thank you Fyuuor.

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Thanks, had a bit of spare time today, should be able to post some more results tommorow.

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Thanks for the testing.

Currently, the main thing that I think stands in the way of Libra being reintroduced with a weight limit is RS, since, harking back to my post yesterday about a HMS Bearing Core 2 combination being able to withstand every attack from Pegasis 145RF, I think RS would definitely help any defence bey by far.

From now until then, bring it back!!!

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I didn't see the post for the Bearing Core 2 combo, sounds interesting where abouts is it?

I'm very excited about trying out RS when I have the chance, though if it can defeat RF combo's with a high win rate then it could pave the way for WF combo's in particular Kei's destabilizer combo.

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I didn't see the post for the Bearing Core 2 combo, sounds interesting where abouts is it?

I'm very excited about trying out RS when I have the chance, though if it can defeat RF combo's with a high win rate then it could pave the way for WF combo's in particular Kei's destabilizer combo.

Here's what I posted yesterday:

"I was messing around yesterday with Pegasis 145RF against one of my HMS customs (not the best, but meh- AR: Dranzer MF's, don't know the name, WD: CWD Chain Attacker, RC: Bearing Core 2). Pegasis 145RF couldn't knock it out of the stadium, though it did outspin a few times, but that's beside the point (BC2's rubber is very worn)."

Like I said, I think RS may be the only thing that may allow Libra to become dominant again after how good BC2 survived against the only combination that I know of to be somewhat of a 'Libra killer'.

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I think that current win rate of attack types vs. defense types is dismal. Defense is supposed to have an advantage : |
I can't speak due to any experience, but it seems like Libra should be allowed, at least in some format, maybe even without a weight limit, but in typical defense combos, no CH120RF etc. variants.

Hate me for being stupid, go ahead.

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at the moment, I'm currently siding with Mc Frown at this rate. However, we should wait until further testing is done with MF-H

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I find MF-H to be undoubtedly superior to MF for defense combos, period. RS is somewhat susceptible to upper and force smash, but it can really take hits from smash attackers if it can retain its balance long enough.

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14 (70%) - 6 (30%)
MF Saggitario H145RF vs. MF Earth Bull GB145WB

I'd honestly rather use a stamina combo and hope for wall saves.
Defense sucks.

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I didn't see the post for the Bearing Core 2 combo, sounds interesting where abouts is it?

I'm very excited about trying out RS when I have the chance, though if it can defeat RF combo's with a high win rate then it could pave the way for WF combo's in particular Kei's destabilizer combo.

Here's what I posted yesterday:

"I was messing around yesterday with Pegasis 145RF against one of my HMS customs (not the best, but meh- AR: Dranzer MF's, don't know the name, WD: CWD Chain Attacker, RC: Bearing Core 2). Pegasis 145RF couldn't knock it out of the stadium, though it did outspin a few times, but that's beside the point (BC2's rubber is very worn)."

Like I said, I think RS may be the only thing that may allow Libra to become dominant again after how good BC2 survived against the only combination that I know of to be somewhat of a 'Libra killer'.

I’ve had the exact same line of thinking about the potential of RS since hearing of it’s release. RS coupled with Libra could create an unmovable defensive blade that will produce an astonishing amount of recoil to opposing blades that could KO blades and become strong enough to completely dominate the game, or at the very least turn the metagame back into a game of chance once again like scissor, paper, rock. But this is all theorized, I haven’t tested out RS yet, the moment I do I’ll post results.

14 (70%) - 6 (30%)
MF Saggitario H145RF vs. MF Earth Bull GB145WB

I'd honestly rather use a stamina combo and hope for wall saves.
Defense sucks.

Those results aren‘t bad, I need to pick up a Saggitario and test it out myself. Though with defence I don’t think that it’s outdated just yet, I need to perform testing on RS to gauge it’s endurance and defensive capabilities but of what I’ve heard RS sounds very promising in stopping RF based attackers. Just a note could anybody perform some test with MF Libra R145 or GB145RS against an RF combo.


Anyways I’ve conducted further testing with Libra.

MF Lightning L Drago 90RF VS MF Libra GB145WB

11 - 9: Lightning win rate 55%

MF Lightning L Drago 90RF VS MF Libra C145WB

14 - 6: Lightning win rate 70%

MF Lightning L Drago 90RF VS MF Libra R145WB

9 - 11; Lightning win rate 45%

MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS VS MF Libra GB145WB

11 - 9: Quetz win rate 55%

MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS VS MF Earth (2nd Mold) Giraffe GB145WB

11 - 9: Quetz win rate 55%

MF Quetzalcoatl CH120 CS VS MF Earth (1st Mold) Giraffe D145SD

15 - 5: Quetz win rate 75%

MF Lightning L Drago 90RF VS MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS

17 - 3: Lightning win rate 85%

MF Pegasus CH120RF VS MF Libra R145WB

14 - 6: Pegasus win rate 70%

MF Pegasus CH120RF VS MF Libra GB145WB

12 - 8: Pegasus win rate 60%

MF Pegasus CH120RF VS MF Libra C145WB

14 - 6: Pegasus win rate 70%

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I''ll get to pairing MF-H Libra GB145RS a little later.

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Next thought: C145 sucks and is inferior in every way to GB145.

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Fyuuor you should do testing for Storm 100RF and Ray 100RF. Also testing all the attack combos against Earth (mold 2) C145/R145/GB145 WB would be good so then we can compare the results.

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Speaking as a person who just witnessed several dozen Stamina vs Stamina battles... please no Libra.

...sorry =P

I've played against a person who had the Libra wheel, enough so to think I can input my two cents on the situation. There is no doubt that Libra as a part is quite powerful. My dilemma here is that Earth (and its top tier combo and its variations), IMHO, is really losing its luster as a defensive wheel as there are a plethora of combos that wreck it senseless. I just seems to me that playing a defense type doesn't make sense in a competitive setting. An example being the use of a combo like MF Pegasis 145RF. If one were to pit a standard top tier defense combo against this, it would be thrown around like a rag doll. Same goes for stamina combos. While with this combo in particular, even Libra would not fair well, however it would give a better chance of winning against similar combos. I think it would give defensive combos the chance to actually "defend" instead of being demolished by the newest attack combo. Although, what do I know? I got back into Beyblade after the ban of the Libra Wheel, so I may be underestimating how badly it upsets the metagame.

Bottom line, I'm pretty impartial towards the re-introduction of Libra. For what its worth I suppose I'm pretty impartial towards everything... =\

Fyuuor you should do testing for Storm 100RF and Ray 100RF. Also testing all the attack combos against Earth (mold 2) C145/R145/GB145 WB would be good so then we can compare the results.

Sure, I'm a little busy today and tommorow so I probbaly won't get to much time to do any testing in the next day or so, though I've got Monday off from work so i'll give it a go then

Though I've done some similar testing around a month ago, should hold you by until my next lot of testing
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Testing-...le-Customs

Speaking as a person who just witnessed several dozen Stamina vs Stamina battles... please no Libra.

...sorry =P

I've played against a person who had the Libra wheel, enough so to think I can input my two cents on the situation. There is no doubt that Libra as a part is quite powerful. My dilemma here is that Earth (and its top tier combo and its variations), IMHO, is really losing its luster as a defensive wheel as there are a plethora of combos that wreck it senseless. I just seems to me that playing a defense type doesn't make sense in a competitive setting. An example being the use of a combo like MF Pegasis 145RF. If one were to pit a standard top tier defense combo against this, it would be thrown around like a rag doll. Same goes for stamina combos. While with this combo in particular, even Libra would not fair well, however it would give a better chance of winning against similar combos. I think it would give defensive combos the chance to actually "defend" instead of being demolished by the newest attack combo. Although, what do I know? I got back into Beyblade after the ban of the Libra Wheel, so I may be underestimating how badly it upsets the metagame.

Bottom line, I'm pretty impartial towards the re-introduction of Libra. For what its worth I suppose I'm pretty impartial towards everything... =\

I know exactly what you mean, it seems as though attack combinations currently have the wood over defence. Though with that said I do think that we should wait until we get some testing done of MF Libra GB145/R145 RS first before we all collectively agree and decide to reinstate the Libra wheel.

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Thanks to minor testing, I don't want to see Libra anywhere near RS...

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Did it complelty dominate?

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Not entirely, but it could really take hits from top tier smash attack combos. Only MF Lightning L-Drago 100RF performed considerably.

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