http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beyblade-Bey-Sta...Sw8-tWXyR6

I'm really curious to see how this stadium is to regular blades... All I know is that they break really easily... and that over 1000 people were fooled into buying it...

From the one I got, it seemed to have less friction than a real stadium and the Tornado Ridge was barely effective.
(And it broke easily.)

@[Angry Face] @[juncction] I also recently purchased two B:D from that same listing (just didn't see these posts until a few weeks later, and didn't get around to actually photographing my B:Ds until yesterday, sorry) however, they were different. One of the ones I bought from the listing is the more opaque kind with the larger casings on the left of Angry's picture, and the other is the more transparent kind with shorter casings on the right. I still have the remainders of my old B:D so I also have that for comparisons. I'm currently out of town for the weekend and can't take a closer look at them at the moment but if either of you have further questions I would be happy to answer them when I get back home.

[Image: ckFzpyI.jpg]

[Image: 6joyK41.jpg]

[Image: ZKODqzG.jpg]

I didn't look too closely for the swirl in any of the B:Ds, but in the second picture both of the opaque B:Ds (left and right) seem to have that crack/seam in the plastic. Maybe the middle one does not have one, or maybe the picture is at an angle that does not show it, I do not remember.

Only the middle B:D (the new, transparent one) has a product code on it (A1), while neither of the opaque ones do. While the legitimacy of one on the left is currently up for debate, I am 100% sure that my old one on the right is a genuine Sonokong B:D (probably still have the empty box somewhere to prove it).

All of them have Phillips' head shaped screws, but despite this none of them have that golden rusty tint juncction mentioned. I also noticed that the screws on the more transparent B:D seemed to be deeper set than either of the opaque ones (the 3rd picture is only of the 2 new B:Ds).

Maybe th!nk was wrong all those many times he was adamant that B:D only had one mold produced, but if this is in fact an actual mold difference and not just natural variation, there is likely no correlation between the mold and the part's spin time or performance in spin-equalization matches. So no, there is still no such thing as a "5 minute mold" or a "7 minute mold".

• My old B:D (Sonokong, on the right) had a 7:30ish spin time and would beat my SA165EWD consistently in both directions.
  
• My new, transparent one (in the middle) originally spun for about 5 minutes but after being used in a little is now more around the 6 minute mark. I can get it to beat SA165EWD consistently in same spin, but not consistently in opposite spin.
  
• My new, opaque one (on the left) does not spin very freely at all and only manages about 3-3:30 spin times. I haven't tried the matchup as of now but I highly doubt it could beat SA165EWD in either spin direction. As it is my worst performing B:D, it has also seen the least use so it hasn't been "broken in" so to speak.
  

I didn't look too closely for the swirl in any of the Bs, but in the second picture both of the opaque Bs (left and right) seem to have that crack/seam in the plastic. Maybe the middle one does not have one, or maybe the picture is at an angle that does not show it, I do not remember.

Only the middle B (the new, transparent one) has a product code on it (A1), while neither of the opaque ones do. While the legitimacy of one on the left is currently up for debate, I am 100% sure that my old one on the right is a genuine Sonokong B (probably still have the empty box somewhere to prove it).

Wombat! I'm a fan of your videos!
You're one of the few who post real tournament matches which I think youtube lacks. I've watched a lot of the WBO tournament stuff, but you never really see the combo used, or how matches play out. So for that I thank you!

Ah that's weird! Are you sure? I had to use a strong light to see them due to shadows.
Then again... I haven't bought any from that listing so I am unsure...

All of them have Phillips' head shaped screws, but despite this none of them have that golden rusty tint juncction mentioned. I also noticed that the screws on the more transparent B seemed to be deeper set than either of the opaque ones (the 3rd picture is only of the 2 new Bs).

My mistake about the screws. There are some that are regular silver as well so I guess it can't be a surefire way to determine legitimacy. The one my girlfriend bought is silver (it's from Sonokong). I edited my post for further clarification.

Also, her's has A1 as the mold.

Maybe th!nk was wrong all those many times he was adamant that B only had one mold produced, but if this is in fact an actual mold difference and not just natural variation, there is likely no correlation between the mold and the part's spin time or performance in spin-equalization matches. So no, there is still no such thing as a "5 minute mold" or a "7 minute mold".

• My old B (Sonokong, on the right) had a 7:30ish spin time and would beat my SA165EWD consistently in both directions.
  
• My new, transparent one (in the middle) originally spun for about 5 minutes but after being used in a little is now more around the 6 minute mark. I can get it to beat SA165EWD consistently in same spin, but not consistently in opposite spin.
  
• My new, opaque one (on the left) does not spin very freely at all and only manages about 3-3:30 spin times. I haven't tried the matchup as of now but I highly doubt it could beat SA165EWD in either spin direction. As it is my worst performing B, it has also seen the least use so it hasn't been "broken in" so to speak.
  

It's safe to say that there is a huge variance and possible mold variance in this part.

I was never a fan of the term "# minute mold" because... well... it doesn't make sense. Even if you can get a particular mold of said part to spin for # amount of time, the performance will still vary depending on too many variables.

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My and my sister's Takara-Tomy B:Ds look like this from beneath:

[Image: DPCp4Jn.jpg]


While the two terrible B:D's I bought loose from eBay looks like this:

[Image: 3Daf0i5.jpg]


As you can see, the loose B:Ds don't even have shield bearings, they're just plain bearings, and Takara-Tomy definitely advertised that their Bearing Drives used shield bearings. Sonokong's Phantom Orion boxes didn't quite highlight the 4D Bottom's use of a shield bearing, however, all of the SK Orion unboxing videos I watched featured B:Ds whose performances indicated the presence of shield bearings.

If you guys have any of these B:Ds that lack shield bearings, are you sure you got them from Takara-Tomy or Sonokong Phantom Orions? While this would be a nice answer to the whole "minute mold" myth, this development only gives support to the voice in me that still believes these B:Ds are no more than above-average fakes.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

Ah, this is interesting development.

I own a opaque yellow B:D from Hasbro that spins very well, and a regular B:D from SonoKong that spins quite badly. However, both have that metallic ring inside them, if that is what you were refering to?

Oh, thanks juncction! I have definitely noticed the lack of tournament matches, and while I understand the value behind advertising the atmosphere of WBO tournaments to potential newcomers there is a small audience (you, me, and probably like 10 other people on the WBO at most) who are interested in seeing the play-by-play of how the tournament unfolded. It's good to know that there is someone out there who appreciates some of the more "competitively-oriented" content on my channel.

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Anyways, back to B:D, I just took a look at all the bearings in my B:Ds, and I'm afraid that it only complicates the mystery further.

[Image: kQK428k.jpg][Image: riSfjnB.jpg][Image: 9soDXnI.jpg]

They are in the same order that they were in the first/second pictures in my last post (Left = new, opaque, long casing, Middle = new, translucent, short casing, Right = old/broken, opaque, long casing). I don't really have a good enough camera to show the difference, but you can kinda see it.

Both my old Sonokong B:D and the one that looks like it from the listing have an NSK Shield Bearing, while the translucent one only has a metal bearing. You can tell by observing the small gap in the center of the metallic ring on the B:Ds on either side, which is absent in the center B:D. However I'm even more confused by this than before because the (supposedly fake) one with the metal bearing spins almost twice as long as the (supposedly real) one with the NSK Shield Bearing?

¿¿¿Is it possible that I got one legitimate B:D and one fake B:D from the same listing???

Also, @[Kai-V], what Angry Face is referring to is a different kind of Bearing inside the B:D. Both are metallic rings, but one of them is simply a metal ring while the other is a NSK Shield Bearing (think Dranzer S vs. Wolborg 2, or the two different kinds of bearings inside Burning Kerberous).

Both my old Sonokong B and the one that looks like it from the listing have an NSK Shield Bearing, while the translucent one only has a metal bearing. You can tell by observing the small gap in the center of the metallic ring on the Bs on either side, which is absent in the center B. However I'm even more confused by this than before because the (supposedly fake) one with the metal bearing spins almost twice as long as the (supposedly real) one with the NSK Shield Bearing?

¿¿¿Is it possible that I got one legitimate B and one fake B from the same listing???

Possible, yes... However, likely is another story.

If these shield bearing-less B:Ds are in fact legitimate, then we're left with the bigger mystery of their origin. Has anyone on the WBO ever even received one of these B:Ds through purchasing a NIB Phantom Orion? Because none of the unboxing videos I've gone through have turned up with one of these in them, TT, SK, nor Hasbro.

Also, @[Kai-V], what Angry Face is referring to is a different kind of Bearing inside the B. Both are metallic rings, but one of them is simply a metal ring while the other is a NSK Shield Bearing (think Dranzer S vs. Wolborg 2, or the two different kinds of bearings inside Burning Kerberous).

NSK is just one company that manufactures different types of bearings, so unless we definitely know that they're the manufacturers of these bearings, I'd think we should probably refrain from including their name before every mention of shield bearings.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

I can't speak for MFB, but all of the shield-bearings in plastics and HMS were manufactured by NSK.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/hot-sell-...2f6379e6fe

(I already posted it on the previous page, I don't know if you guys saw it.)

Yours seem different, though.

---

Both my old Sonokong B:D and the one that looks like it from the listing have an NSK Shield Bearing, while the translucent one only has a metal bearing. You can tell by observing the small gap in the center of the metallic ring on the B:Ds on either side, which is absent in the center B:D. However I'm even more confused by this than before because the (supposedly fake) one with the metal bearing spins almost twice as long as the (supposedly real) one with the NSK Shield Bearing?

¿¿¿Is it possible that I got one legitimate B:D and one fake B:D from the same listing???

It's possible that Sonokong has the highest variance in comparison to TT. For example my Sonokong B:D has triangle head screws, which I absolutely unboxed from a Sonokong Phantom.

My and my sister's Takara-Tomy B:Ds look like this from beneath:

While the two terrible B:D's I bought loose from eBay looks like this:

As you can see, the loose B:Ds don't even have shield bearings, they're just plain bearings, and Takara-Tomy definitely advertised that their Bearing Drives used shield bearings. Sonokong's Phantom Orion boxes didn't quite highlight the 4D Bottom's use of a shield bearing, however, all of the SK Orion unboxing videos I watched featured B:Ds whose performances indicated the presence of shield bearings.

If you guys have any of these B:Ds that lack shield bearings, are you sure you got them from Takara-Tomy or Sonokong Phantom Orions? While this would be a nice answer to the whole "minute mold" myth, this development only gives support to the voice in me that still believes these B:Ds are no more than above-average fakes.

However, we also have to remember that there are always manufacturing issues and possible outsourcing for different bearings or using different but similar bearings within the same company if they didn't have enough at the time to produce them. Phantom too was also extremely hyped so, it's possible! It's also possible that sonokong sourced for a different bearing brand completely.

[Image: up17Bmw.jpg]

This is a closeup of my girlfriend's Sonokong Phantom B:D, it doesn't appear to have a shield at all... Also, the rust was there when she got it. It's performance is pretty bad... even straight out of the box.

Is it possible that non-shielded Sonokong bearings are the result of poor performance?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/hot-sell-...2f6379e6fe

(I already posted it on the previous page, I don't know if you guys saw it.)

Yours seem different, though.

I believe that these ones don't have the swirl or the bearing at all. The Rapidity one I received from Amazon by mistake looks exactly like that link.

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Both my old Sonokong B and the one that looks like it from the listing have an NSK Shield Bearing, while the translucent one only has a metal bearing. You can tell by observing the small gap in the center of the metallic ring on the Bs on either side, which is absent in the center B. However I'm even more confused by this than before because the (supposedly fake) one with the metal bearing spins almost twice as long as the (supposedly real) one with the NSK Shield Bearing?

Ah, wait a minute, how do you mean that B:D spins twice as long? By spinning the tip alone or in use on a Stamina combination?

I can't speak for MFB, but all of the shield-bearings in plastics and HMS were manufactured by NSK.

Did Takara advertise that back then? Takara-Tomy didn't disclose anything for MFB.

Is it possible that non-shielded Sonokong bearings are the result of poor performance?

I would think this should be the primary distinction, as it is in my case and yours, but Wombat's experience seems to contrast?

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

I mean it could be possible that sonokong has both shielded and unshielded versions of their bearings in B: D released. I don't have access to my other ones at the moment to check, but if memory serves me well; I think my Sonokong one is shielded.



The possible outcomes:

1. Only Sonokong released a non-shielded variety.
2. TT and Sonokong released a non-shielded variety.
3. Either of the two are true but there are also fake non-shielded varieties.

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@[Marsol123] Do you happen to remember which brand(s) you got your two different B:Ds from?

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

Both my old Sonokong B:D and the one that looks like it from the listing have an NSK Shield Bearing, while the translucent one only has a metal bearing. You can tell by observing the small gap in the center of the metallic ring on the B:Ds on either side, which is absent in the center B:D. However I'm even more confused by this than before because the (supposedly fake) one with the metal bearing spins almost twice as long as the (supposedly real) one with the NSK Shield Bearing?

Ah, wait a minute, how do you mean that B:D spins twice as long? By spinning the tip alone or in use on a Stamina combination?

Uh, both. When I spin the tip alone, the one with the non-shielded bearing spins about the same time as my broken Sonokong one with the shielded bearing, and both of those spin about twice as long as the new one from the listing that has the shielded bearing, which doesn't continue to spin after I remove my finger.

When used on MF-L Phantom Cancer B:D, the non-shielded new one spins about 6 minutes while the shielded new one spins around 3:30. The old one was around 7-7:30 (IIRC the highest recorded spin time it hit was 7:36).

It might also be worth noting that my Sonokong B:D is completely silent when I spin only the tip by hand, while both of the new ones make rattling noises (the non-shielded one is a bit louder but that just might be due to it actually spinning more).

I can't speak for MFB, but all of the shield-bearings in plastics and HMS were manufactured by NSK.

Did Takara advertise that back then? Takara-Tomy didn't disclose anything for MFB.

Huh, I always thought NSK was just the type of shield bearing used in Beyblades, and not a specific brand. I figured it was like ABS/PC/POM which designate the various plastics used in Beyblades but not any brand in particular (I think).

The possible outcomes:

1. Only Sonokong released a non-shielded variety.
2. TT and Sonokong released a non-shielded variety.
3. Either of the two are true but there are also fake non-shielded varieties.

Is it also possible that there are fake shielded varieties? juncction mentioned that the Rapidity B:Ds do not have a bearing whatsoever, so if these are fake they are definitely from another (possibly 2 other) fake brands? Unless I received one fake B:D and one real B:D from the listing either 1 or 2 could be true, or fake shielded B:Ds exist.

On another note, until this case is solved one way or the other, will the questionable B:Ds be allowed in testing/tournaments? Seeing as using my broken B:D is definitely not a legal option, my next best alternative is the non-shielded 6 minute one.

This is my B : D (rest in peace, my old 7:45 one ;_;7)

[Image: wtFTZsu.jpg]
[Image: fDewumu.jpg]

It's Sonokong, labeled "A1", and has a metal bearing.
It spins for about 3:30 solo on stock Phantom, same MW/CW as the 7:45 tests. I'm quite sure it's legit, or a VERY carefully repackaged fake, because when I first got it, I was so disappointed with its performance that I thoroughly inspected the packaging, listing, and other parts to make sure I hadn't gotten stuck with a low-quality fake.
It does rattle, and is seated awfully high up on the central shaft, so it's a little wobbly and unstable. In battle, it tends to move around a bit and makes a significant amount of buzzing/rattling noises.

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Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

Let me just slip into your discussion

Here is my TAKARA Tomy B : D;

Spoiler (Click to View)

[Image: 2s0b66d.jpg]

Was having problems getting a good picture, but here is my B : D. And I couldn't get any good pictures of its side either, but it looks identical to Cake's.

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૮(•ᴥ•)ა

[Image: s-l1600.jpg]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/New-Takara-Tomy-Be...2015614786

I recently saw this posted on eBay. It's a completely different box of Phantom orion compared to the old rapidity box. And a new logo for Rapidity.


[Image: 1.0x0.jpg]

I'm unsure of its contents or if the bey inside has increased in quality. It does however have almost the same front of the real takara tomy box (of course it's not exactly the same, there's wrong info/details), even including the information about the ball bearings. The Phantom is in the wrong mode too. And what's this K L on the top right?

I'm extremely curious about it, but not up to paying that much for a fake just to compare.


Real box btw:

[Image: %24_12.JPG?set_id=880000500F]

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Let me just slip into your discussion

Here is my TAKARA Tomy B : D;

Spoiler (Click to View)

[Image: 2s0b66d.jpg]

Was having problems getting a good picture, but here is my B : D. And I couldn't get any good pictures of its side either, but it looks identical to Cake's.

You're sure your B:D has a shorter core and is made by Takara-Tomy, not Sonokong? Cake's pictures don't really show the differences we're looking for like mine or Wombat's do, but his is also Sonokong.

When you compare your B:D to the ones below, it's like the middle one and not either of the two by its sides?

[Image: 6joyK41.jpg]

Frankly, juncction's alternate Sonokong manufacturer theory seems very reasonable, but I'd instantly be more skeptical if a Takara-Tomy B:D without shield bearings appeared.

However, we also have to remember that there are always manufacturing issues and possible outsourcing for different bearings or using different but similar bearings within the same company if they didn't have enough at the time to produce them. Phantom too was also extremely hyped so, it's possible! It's also possible that sonokong sourced for a different bearing brand completely.

http://i.imgur.com/up17Bmw.jpg

This is a closeup of my girlfriend's Sonokong Phantom B, it doesn't appear to have a shield at all... Also, the rust was there when she got it. It's performance is pretty bad... even straight out of the box.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

Ugh, so in summary, if I wanted a B that spins the best and freely, is only Hasbro safe, basically?

As far as I know, TT B : Ds are generally safe, too; of all the TT B : Ds I've encountered either through my own unboxing (like my beloved 7:45 one) or through other bladers I've met at events, dud Takara B : Ds are very much in the minority. (The sample size is pretty weak, though, it may be that the Michigan community was just collectively lucky XD)

---

Threads and combos!

Spoiler (Click to View)

[LTD] MF Jade Horogium 85RSF
[LTD] RB / RSF Attack
[LTD] Ronin Genbull (Crystal Up) 85RF
MF-H Phantom (Attack) Cancer 85RB
MSF-H Wyvang Ifraid GB145RF {Alternative to Wyvang^2 with more Upper Attack}
MSF-H Genbull Genbull 85RSF {Improved version of the above Phantom combo}
Balro Begirados 100RF {LTAC with both Upper Smash and regular Smash}
[LTD] MF-H Lightning L-Drago 85RB {more controllable Lightning LTAC}
[LTD] Burn Orion 105SF {Destabilizer}

Got it from a Dragoon MS on ebay. What is this? Why is it so long? Why is it black? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Image: O5rWuAF.jpg]

No but seriously I dunno what RC this is. Is it fake? Custom-made? A part that I didn't bother looking up? The tip is still rubber btw. It's like Driger's RC but with the Semi-flat tip replaced with a rubber tip.

Edit: Now that you mention it, it's actually metal. I mistook it for rubber because it feels a little grippy, maybe because it's so old. That and because I never had a rubber tip in my life T_T.

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[Image: 0DQTXny.png]

At first I thought it was Advance Striker's, but @[UltimateOrion] pointed out that it could be Wyvern DJ's RC, which I think it is. It is real, and probably Wyvern DJ's RC.

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૮(•ᴥ•)ა

Got it from a Dragoon MS on ebay. What is this? Why is it so long? Why is it black? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

http://i.imgur.com/O5rWuAF.jpg

No but seriously I dunno what RC this is. Is it fake? Custom-made? A part that I didn't bother looking up? The tip is still rubber btw. It's like Driger's RC but with the Semi-flat tip replaced with a rubber tip.

i wouldn't call a 2-3cm long

In any case, that RC doesn't resemble any I've ever seen before. If it's not just a mod, the RC's probably fake.

EDIT: How do you mistake metal for rubber...? If that's the case, then yeah, Hato's right, it's Wyvern DJ's Metal Sharp Core.

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Spoiler (Click to View)

This is what we all want, Brad.

It's long for something that I thought was a Grip Flat Core.

Most of my mistakes were from my delusion that it was Dragoon's RC. It gripped really well to me, it didn't move that much when hit and was really aggressive at the beginning . That and because I never touched a rubber tip which made me think that it was hard rubber. Well, this is embarrassing.

Edit: After playing with it a bit more, the sharp tip finally got its shine back and feels smoother.

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[Image: 0DQTXny.png]

I got a fake Death Quetzalcoatl from ebay, the seller's name was "megames" the package was poorly printed on and had the sonokong and takara tomy logo, when I opened up the box, It had fake stickers and no cardboard box, the beyblade easily came out and looked fake. I sent a return request, and I will update all of you what happens with it.