Flash discussion.

Brood · Mar. 12, 2012 1:34 PM

Done the tests.
Ow my back.
Note that all OSs from flash is from BD145 and RDF floor scrap.

Height comparative tests:

Tests vs Duo:

Tests vs anti-attack:

I think my CH120 is too wobbly so dont count on it too hard.
I personaly think D125 and S130 suits Flash very well.
Of course Im not sure about GB145 but It seems to have perfect synergy with the shape and weight distribution

Expect me to get the fastest stuff.

th!nk · Mar. 12, 2012 1:51 PM

Woah, that's a lot of tests, thanks for all that hard work!!!

Very interesting, that's a lot better than I expected against anti-attack.

If you are able to at some point in the future (take your time though, seriously) could you try S130 vs MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145CS/RDF? Don't want to overwork you, I really appreciate all of those tests!

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Brood · Mar. 12, 2012 1:55 PM

No prob.I have a LOT of free time since spring vacation is so long in Japan.lol
I forgot to say "shot alternatively" on vs ani-attack ima fix it Uncertain

Expect me to get the fastest stuff.

Janstarblast · Mar. 12, 2012 2:27 PM

Those were AMAZING! It did SO well against anti-attack?! Super! Thank you very much, Leviath. Smile

Question- You shot those beys alternatively. Do you think the alternating launches, helped a certain bey (either Flash or the anti attack combo) bag in a certain amount of victories over the other?
Maybe there were OHKOs by anti-attackers against Flash, or maybe there were gattyakis, or maybe the late launch favored the other by some or the other means(launched when Flash was too close to the exits, and got KOed upon the anti-attack's entry or vice versa; helped outspin the other, etc.)

Actually, its a dumb question as there were certain benefits a later launch could provide, but due to alternating launches, it may not matter... But it would matter a bit when we see that the win rates are ~50%...

This question may not matter at all, but it seemed important to me at least. So answer as per your convenience. Smile

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

th!nk · Mar. 12, 2012 2:29 PM

You should alternate launches in RF vs RF tests, Jan.

To be honest those results are a little scary, flash seems a little *too* good :c Still, I guess there's always the risks of RF anyway.

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Janstarblast · Mar. 12, 2012 2:43 PM

Oh yes, I know that. Smile

But, as the win rates in some tests were almost 50%, there were chances of a situation arising where the wins depended on what was launched first.
Flash certainly is good, no doubt about that. There were other Attackers that were defeated quite easily by anti-attack. This one isn't. It already shows its Attack prowess.
But still, should the wins depend on what was launched first, then it might seem a bit odd. Still, as I said previously, it won't matter much. Previous attackers didn't manage to win even when alternately launched, which proves that this can withstand anti-attack better than former attackers. But just so that we get a clear picture of how the battles were, and just so that we may know whether Flash seriously beats/gets beaten due to these launches, I thought I'd ask. But of course, its the testing standard, so nothing's gonna change after all.
And as I said previously, its a dumb question overall... Tongue_out

@Leviath- A very very minute error- You've entered 'CRDF' in place of 'RDF' in a few tests. Smile

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

th!nk · Mar. 12, 2012 2:46 PM

Honestly, though, it shouldn't be doing so well, the current winrates mean there's practically no way of stopping it reliably.

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Janstarblast · Mar. 12, 2012 2:52 PM

True...
We may see the revival of "Where's the Game Going?" thread again. :X

But I seriously want to see more tests on this... Leviath's tests have proven a lot of stuff already, but I hope to see this fall to at least "something".
Right now, it got the lowest win rate (which was still extremely high, if compared to win rates of previous attackers against anti-attack) against Wing; so I hope to see Wing do slightly better in other tests now...
If it doesn't, and its performance worsens instead, then.....

Surprisingly, Diablo outspun Flash quite a many times in those tests! Grin

That was unbelievable!

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

th!nk · Mar. 12, 2012 2:54 PM

I honestly think that was just random variation, it doing better against wing. Wing is not as good as Diablo defensively, really.

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Brood · Mar. 12, 2012 2:59 PM

Ugh i keep forgetting things Tired

; I dont know if its important or not but I rotate the stadium 60 degrees after every battle to prevent identical KO pathing.

Yes It is favored by the one shot second.Not neccecarly an OHKO but have slightly higher chance of winning.

I have an odd feeling about flash vs wing.It seemed to have more defensive capability than diablo and basalt.

Expect me to get the fastest stuff.

Janstarblast · Mar. 12, 2012 3:05 PM

Well yeah, it may be random variation.... Even I expected Diablo and Basalt to do better here, but Wing popped in. I am not saying that it is one thing Flash is expected to fall to, I was saying that this shows that Wing might seriously be an underrated part for Defense purposes, and may see more tests against Flash; and who knows, it might get decent (not better) win rates...

As of now, its just one test for each matchup. So even though it gave us a powerful insight into the current status of Flash against anti-attack, it may get different win rates in the same matchup hereon... After that, we may be able to calculate the average win rate of Flash against anti-attack, which would officially define Flash as unbeatable. Smile

Not saying that Leviath's tests are wrong, just that I want to see more tests, even from Leviath (if possible, as he's already done too much) so that we may officially declare this as the most powerful of the current meta...

EDIT- Beaten by Leviath.
@Leviath- Wing had better Defense? I don't know if you have done this already or not, but may we please get the weight of your Wing? It might be helpful for us to understand. Smile

As for the slight advantage, that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about OHKOs and related stuff only, which you said it doesn't offer. Smile

So,

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

Brood · Mar. 12, 2012 3:17 PM

My wing weighs 45.3grams, Its still lighter than basalt or diablo.I can assume that diablo got flung further because of its recoil but I dont know why its more defensive than basalt.Is it because of BD145?

Expect me to get the fastest stuff.

Janstarblast · Mar. 12, 2012 3:24 PM

Well, Diablo probably suffered from recoil, but still.
As for Wing doing better than Basalt, there are various reasons actually. Even Basalt suffers from recoil... The weight difference is not too great... Also, the weight difference is covered up when BD145 is used with Wing while Basalt is used with R145... R145 has recoil...

But considering the fact that anti-attack isn't pure Defense but just a Defensive wheel combined into a rather aggressive combo, its alright. Diablo was still expected to do better due to its weight, powerful Defense, and phenomenal Attack...
Wing was just a surprise... So it might be 'random variation' as th!nk said, and that is just the reason why I want to see more tests. Smile

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

Ga' · Mar. 12, 2012 8:25 PM

Man, Flash is unstoppable! It did amazing against anti-attack! Thanks for the tests Brood!

"In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new: an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, "Anyone can cook." But I realize, only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere."

-Anton Ego/Peter O'Toole (1932-2013)

KuroKitsune · Mar. 13, 2012 4:22 AM

Can anyone test this against 90/85RDF combos preferably duo and wing.Also Left spin defense combos.

I still say H145/GB145 for flash, haven't tried S130 though.

th!nk · Mar. 13, 2012 4:30 AM

>Haven't tried S130
>Say "H145 and GB145"

Don't do that pleaaaasssseeee, most of your posts are realllly good don't fall into that trap!

Looks like I'm buying this tomorrow, so when it gets here I'll look into ways to beat it. I'm sure it'll be stoppable somehow, but it'll take more specific combinations to do so.

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

kbuno50 · Mar. 13, 2012 4:44 AM

This is way ( I MEAN WAAAAAY ) more powerful than I thought it would be. Could someone try duo anti attafk combos, and if that doesn't work, attack mode? 0_0

Samurai Changer · Mar. 13, 2012 4:53 AM

i believe kbuno meant test flash against anti-attack combo's that use duo

"Remember this Masamune Kadoya, true effort, real training, is found at the very edge of one's limit!"-Klaus

th!nk · Mar. 13, 2012 4:54 AM

(Mar. 13, 2012 4:53 AM)BLAZE-âˆžâ„¢ Wrote: i believe kbuno meant test flash against anti-attack combo's that use duo

Already sent Arupaeo a PM about it, I'm sure it'll be sorted out, Arupaeo probably just misread something somewhere.

I'd like to see the same, by the way.

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Janstarblast · Mar. 13, 2012 5:30 AM

Even I. To be honest, I was about to suggest it too.
But then I realized that Duo on an aggressive combo shouldn't be as great, no? The low recoil would become more of a disadvantage here, than an advantage...
At least that's what I think, since I see most anti-attack combos to be recoil-y Defense wheels on aggressive setups.
But yeah, maybe Duo can do well...

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

th!nk · Mar. 13, 2012 5:36 AM

The general idea is that RF should give it more grip, so it's harder to KO, though there's the tradeoff/balancer of higher energy impacts/being hit from behind.

Diablo has an issue with stamina: It has none. This means against attackers, the OS's can go either way. So, Duo might be better at outspinning it, if the RF thing increases its defense. I mean, seeing as Flash is still KOing diablo anyway, looks like going for more defense might be the only option.

th!nkBlargh|H-Code Product List

Janstarblast · Mar. 13, 2012 5:42 AM

Hm.... So Duo may be described as a moving crawler(isn't that what you call the truck/trolley which carries aeroplanes?) against Flash, which I may like to call an army tank. Tongue_out

So what we will be doing is pitting a superb Attack wheel with a powerful Defense type on an aggressive setup. Man, when I imagine it, it seems to sound amazing! It would have crushed Flash, should it have been Left Spin!

So now, I am more enthusiastic than before, to see a Duo anti-attack against this threat!

Team IB Revolutions

Thanks to N0body for the avatar and Synth for the signature!

View All Faces · Mar. 13, 2012 5:47 AM

Duo in attack mode is aggressive so using attack mode and RF/R2F with that maybe useful as a counter.

kbuno50 · Mar. 13, 2012 5:51 AM

Arupaeo
Yeah, I meant what VENOM meant.

Maybe duo could be tested with both XF and RF, and maybe MF?

View All Faces · Mar. 13, 2012 5:57 AM

XF and MF wont be a good idea IMO as they have low grip. Hmm.. We haven't tested this against Scythe and Phantom too..
We could try MF-F Phantom Cancer AD145 RF since it was successful in countering Diablo at least.
Scythe has also shown defensive capabilities with the T125 RS combo.. so maybe we could see how it fares against that...