Yeah, it is a little lacking. In fact all the information fits on one page, without scrolling up and down :\
Dragoon GT Article
![[Image: promotion.jpg]](https://a.random-image.net/strikeraxis/promotion.jpg)
Oops- I must've forgotten to add those when writing it. Though you can add them if you want. I'm a bit busy.
What are they :\
The combo added is pretty awful. Upper Attack SP? Full Auto Clutch Shaft?
(Apr. 07, 2009 2:19 PM)Giga Wrote: The combo added is pretty awful. Upper Attack SP? Full Auto Clutch Shaft?
Yeah, that combo has pretty bad synergy.
Maybe this:
AR: G Upper (Dragoon GT)
WD: Wide Defense/ Ten Wide
SG: Neo Right SG
SG Core: Heavy Metal Core (Metal Driger)
BB: SG Metal Flat 2 (Gaia Dragoon V)
![[Image: 33a798w.jpg]](https://i44.tinypic.com/33a798w.jpg)
Examplatory customization:
AR: 8 Spiker
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Left Engine Gear (Turbo)
BB: First Clutch Base (Dragoon G Version)
CEW: Metal Semi-Flat
As the most useful and innovative part of the Dragoon GT is its freakin' Turbo Engine Gear whereas the G Upper has better smash and force smash capability than its upper attack(now imagine how crappy it is)...
AR: 8 Spiker
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Left Engine Gear (Turbo)
BB: First Clutch Base (Dragoon G Version)
CEW: Metal Semi-Flat
As the most useful and innovative part of the Dragoon GT is its freakin' Turbo Engine Gear whereas the G Upper has better smash and force smash capability than its upper attack(now imagine how crappy it is)...
there is another version of dragoon gt right?the red dragoon gt...
sorry for replying on old thread..cont know if i am right or wrong..
sorry for replying on old thread..cont know if i am right or wrong..
Problem is, the article is already made... I don't think your post will make any difference. Only if Kei, views it, then maybe......
![[Image: janstarblastsignature.jpg]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-imUVk9PErhw/Tb5jNvGKumI/AAAAAAAAAFw/8iSsYhW7vEw/janstarblastsignature.jpg)
oh really..?i dont really know much about beywiki..
(Apr. 09, 2011 2:30 PM)benjohadi Wrote: there is another version of dragoon gt right?the red dragoon gt...
sorry for replying on old thread..cont know if i am right or wrong..
My knowlege may be a little rusty but i believe it was realesed in a engine gear vs hms staduim . The other bey was a black draciel ms and i think it was the tornado attack staduim that was included
![[Image: H3k1N6W.png]](https://i.imgur.com/H3k1N6W.png)
(May. 11, 2011 8:12 AM)poseidon Wrote:(Apr. 09, 2011 2:30 PM)benjohadi Wrote: there is another version of dragoon gt right?the red dragoon gt...
sorry for replying on old thread..cont know if i am right or wrong..
My knowlege may be a little rusty but i believe it was realesed in a engine gear vs hms staduim . The other bey was a black draciel ms and i think it was the tornado attack staduim that was included
haha..i posted that long ago..and i know it also has black recolour too...also gold,silver and bronze recolour as for championship..
I think this thread really shines a light on why the current article is so patchy, and I wasn't surprised at all by Brad questioning whether Anu owned it. Sorry, but ignoring the actual use of the AR because it has the word "upper" in its name is just unacceptable, it's like someone looked at the name and a side on view, and called it a day.
I'm posting my new draft here, though to be honest, I wrote most of it from the ground up. I've used this beyblade and its parts (minus the EG, but especially the AR and CEW) a lot, and there's a lot to be said about it, so it is rather lengthy, but yeah, I had to set out to correct some misconceptions as well as discuss left spin smash AR's more generally, as left spin smash is kinda eh, for reasons I mention in the article.
I'd also appreciate any input on my EG section, but only from people who have used it extensively. Mine died and disappeared long ago, so I wrote it from what I have learn from older forums, this forum, and what I can safely extrapolate based on the Left Customise EG from my White Gabriel G. It should be completely correct as is, though.
Also, if someone owns it and has a good, calibrated set of scales, weights for the EG and CEW separately would be appreciated, though if my scales arrive today I will try to do it myself, but as my turbo left EG is missing, I would have to subtract the weight of the CEW from the weight of the whole from the old site with the weights, so bleh.
ANYWAYS:
So yeah, as you can see, the original draft missed a lot. The AR section reads like some kind of prank:
"The AR of Dragoon GT was built for Upper Attack."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU
Yeah, I know I'm being rough here (maybe more than I'm even aware), but it's created a huge misconception about this AR and other Left Spin smash AR's (mainly eight spiker), and I actually find the article a little offensive, simply because of how incorrect and shallow it is. As such, it may seem somewhat of a shock to those of you used to the notion that it is an outclassed upper attack part, but Look At It! If you have it: Try the example combo, then try the same with eight spiker. Unless I've completely imagined the fact G Upper outperformed "the best left spin smash attack AR", you should see my point.
The only other thing I could include is an example of the weird defense combo's I've used with Metal Grip and Dranzer GT's Reverse Gear, but they're kinda outlandish and probably not really worth it competitively, I am not comfortable giving it more than a mention, especially with it not being the best EG defense part (Right EG Circle Survive is basically the best defense part full stop soooo).
I can do some testing with it if it is really needed, but I think the article is fine to go up as is.
The engine gear part: Yah, the combo I chose is kinda lame, but it's the most OHKO-ey combo that works with it (the EG setup is too tall for whale crusher to do anything but be hit from underneath). OHKO sucks anyway, tbh. I avoided using Dragoon GT's base in it because it's fragile and I don't want to encourage people breaking theirs in a cruddy combo.
And yes, sorry if I offend anyone with my rather brutal attitude towards the current article, but things like that should be removed from the beywiki until they're correct and complete.
EDIT: Oh, and I do realise I'm making a pretty big claim about the AR being the best left spin smash attack AR, I will provide comparative tests of it and Eight Spiker in the coming days whilst I'm on holidays. I will probably test against a compact, seeing as a) they're far more common, b) pure defense is often hard to beat with storm grip and I don't think it will give us a suitable scale to work with.
Probably end up being Tiger Defenser, 10 Heavy, HMC, SG Semi Flat. Tiger Defenser because war lion is fragile and tbh I prefer tiger defenser anyway, SG Semi Flat because Metal Change Base introduces too many variables for my liking.
May end up only doing 10 rounds because I don't want to wear my storm grip too much, so I hope you will understand.
I'm posting my new draft here, though to be honest, I wrote most of it from the ground up. I've used this beyblade and its parts (minus the EG, but especially the AR and CEW) a lot, and there's a lot to be said about it, so it is rather lengthy, but yeah, I had to set out to correct some misconceptions as well as discuss left spin smash AR's more generally, as left spin smash is kinda eh, for reasons I mention in the article.
I'd also appreciate any input on my EG section, but only from people who have used it extensively. Mine died and disappeared long ago, so I wrote it from what I have learn from older forums, this forum, and what I can safely extrapolate based on the Left Customise EG from my White Gabriel G. It should be completely correct as is, though.
Also, if someone owns it and has a good, calibrated set of scales, weights for the EG and CEW separately would be appreciated, though if my scales arrive today I will try to do it myself, but as my turbo left EG is missing, I would have to subtract the weight of the CEW from the weight of the whole from the old site with the weights, so bleh.
ANYWAYS:
I went and re- Wrote:{{Beybox
| image = Dragoon_GT_3.jpg
| full item name = Dragoon GT (Galaxy Turbo)
| item number = A-112
| beyblade system= Engine Gear
| beyblade type=[[Attack]]
| starter or booster = starter
}}
__TOC__
==Attack Ring (AR): G Upper==
* '''Weight:''' 7 grams
Despite its name, G Upper has only moderate [[Upper Attack]] ability, having relatively short, shallow slopes that only produce mild lifting power. What G Upper does have, however, are four very well shaped, and excellently positioned contact points for [[Smash Attack]] in left spin. In addition to this, it is one of the wider ARs released, giving it excellent range. The majority of the weight is situated just behind the contact points, along the perimeter of the AR, which is ideal for Smash Attack. The slopes, and rounded shape of the wings, allow G Upper to destabilise opponents and score wins by outspin, even on [[Dragoon S#Blade Base (BB): Storm Grip|Storm Grip Base]]. All together, this makes a very well-rounded AR, arguably more reliable (if only due to its ability to win by OS) than the most popular left spin Smash Attack AR, [[Dragoon G|Eight Spiker]].
As with all left-spin Smash Attack ARs, G Upper is generally limited to [[Dragoon S#Blade Base (BB): Storm Grip|Storm Grip Base]] and [[Gaia Dragoon V#Blade Base (BB): SG Metal Flat 2|SG Metal Flat 2]] (on which they generally lack the stopping-ability Right Spin ARs gain from being in the same spin direction as the majority of opponents) in terms of suitable bases. However, G Upper does make excellent use of the bases that are available to it, and the two more powerful bases with which it is either incompatible or inefficient (Grip Base and SG Grip Change Base), are very rare parts, and the limitations of taller bases such as SG Grip Change Base and Customize Grip Change base are just as relevant to all but one or two smash attack ARs, regardless of spin direction.
=== Use in [[Smash Attack]] Customization ===
A great combination for G Upper is a rather standard smash attack setup, employing the good speed of Storm Grip and excellent weight distribution of Wide Defense to provide heavy hits on opponents. Due to the low height of Storm Grip, and the slopes of G Upper, this combination, despite being in opposite spin to most opponents, manages to knock opponents off balance in a style reminiscent of [[Upper Attack]]. This allows for easy outspins, and is arguably one of the most reliable Storm Grip combinations in existence.
*'''AR:''' G Upper (Dragoon GT)
*'''WD:''' [[Wide Defense]]
*'''SG:''' [[Spin_Gear#V_and_V2_Series_Spin_Gears|Left Neo-Spin Gear]]
*'''BB:''' Storm Grip ([[Dragoon S]])
Both a Normal Left SG and Neo Left SG with Metal Weight Core may be used in place of the Left Neo-Spin Gear, due to its relatively limited distribution, but generally, the less weight directly over the tip of Storm Grip, the better. Wide Defense, however, is absolutely vital to the effective performance of this combination.
==Weight Disk (WD): Ten Wide==
See [[Wide Weight Disks | Ten Wide]]
==Spin Gear (SG): Left Engine Gear (Turbo)==
* '''Weight'''(with Metal Grip CEW): 10 grams
The Turbo Left EG is a successor to the Normal Left EG, providing a release four times stronger than its predecessor (albeit over a shorter time period). As with most Engine Gears, it is generally avoided due to tall height and impractical bases.
The high speed of the Turbo Left EG has use in One-Hit Knockout combinations, though these combinations, by definition, are quite risky and unreliable.
=== Use in [[OHKO]] Customization ===
*'''AR:''' Spike Dragon ([[Dragoon V2]])
*'''WD:''' [[Heavy Weight Disks|10 Heavy]]
*'''SG:''' [[Spin_Gear#G_and_GT_Series_Spin_Gears|Left Engine Gear (Turbo)]]
*'''BB:''' First Clutch Base (Dragoon G Version)
*'''CEW:''' Metal Semi Flat ([[Dranzer GT]], Numerous Hasbro Releases)
This is a standard OHKO attacker: High Power, High Recoil AR, fast movement, and everything else focused on surviving its own recoil. Such combinations are generally not used for serious play, but if you have nothing better, and are sure your opponent will play an easily knocked out beyblade, it can be used successfully.
==Customize Engine Weight (CEW): Metal Grip==
The Metal Grip CEW, as the name suggests, is a metal tip with a rubber coating, increasing grip with the stadium floor. However, due to its relatively heavy weight and the grip produced, it tends to “anchor†combinations it is used in, slowing their movement. This property does give it some minor use in Defensive customizations, however it is heavily outclassed by [[Wolborg 2|Wolborg 2’s]] SG Bearing Ver. 2 and even Defense Grip Base ([[Seaborg]]), due to its tall height, poor stamina, and lack of any suitable engine gears or blade bases that would make it worthwhile.
==Blade Base (BB): First Clutch Base (Dragoon GT Version)==
* '''Weight:''' 7 grams
Like all First Clutch blade bases, Dragoon GT’s base releases the engine gear at the start of the battle.
The base has four protrusions, all of which are rather large and flat (similar in shape to [[Dragoon V2|Dragoon V2’s]] Spike Dragon AR). These protrusions, whilst providing some smash attack, generally produce a lot of recoil, meaning they are just as likely to cause self-KO as they are to KO the opponent. Generally, its use is limited to OHKO combinations, though as the protrusions can cause breakage issues, it’s often best to simply not use this base at all.
==Other Versions==
* '''Dragoon GT''' (Special Starter set (Black))
* '''Dragoon GT''' (Special Booster (Blue))
* '''Dragoon GT''' Fire Blood Ver. (Takao VS Max / HMS VS EG Battle Set (Red))
==Gallery==
<gallery>
ImageragoonGTfront.jpg|Dragoon GT front view
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
</gallery>
==Overall==
Due to its price and rarity, especially compared to the functionally similar but significantly cheaper [[Dragoon G]], Dragoon GT is generally only worth buying for collection purposes.
However, if one is willing and able to use it, the Attack ring is a heavily-underrated and very powerful part, so in that case, it could be seen as a worthwhile competitive purchase.
[[Categorylastic Beyblade]]
[[Category:Beyblade]]
So yeah, as you can see, the original draft missed a lot. The AR section reads like some kind of prank:
"The AR of Dragoon GT was built for Upper Attack."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU
Yeah, I know I'm being rough here (maybe more than I'm even aware), but it's created a huge misconception about this AR and other Left Spin smash AR's (mainly eight spiker), and I actually find the article a little offensive, simply because of how incorrect and shallow it is. As such, it may seem somewhat of a shock to those of you used to the notion that it is an outclassed upper attack part, but Look At It! If you have it: Try the example combo, then try the same with eight spiker. Unless I've completely imagined the fact G Upper outperformed "the best left spin smash attack AR", you should see my point.
The only other thing I could include is an example of the weird defense combo's I've used with Metal Grip and Dranzer GT's Reverse Gear, but they're kinda outlandish and probably not really worth it competitively, I am not comfortable giving it more than a mention, especially with it not being the best EG defense part (Right EG Circle Survive is basically the best defense part full stop soooo).
I can do some testing with it if it is really needed, but I think the article is fine to go up as is.
The engine gear part: Yah, the combo I chose is kinda lame, but it's the most OHKO-ey combo that works with it (the EG setup is too tall for whale crusher to do anything but be hit from underneath). OHKO sucks anyway, tbh. I avoided using Dragoon GT's base in it because it's fragile and I don't want to encourage people breaking theirs in a cruddy combo.
And yes, sorry if I offend anyone with my rather brutal attitude towards the current article, but things like that should be removed from the beywiki until they're correct and complete.
EDIT: Oh, and I do realise I'm making a pretty big claim about the AR being the best left spin smash attack AR, I will provide comparative tests of it and Eight Spiker in the coming days whilst I'm on holidays. I will probably test against a compact, seeing as a) they're far more common, b) pure defense is often hard to beat with storm grip and I don't think it will give us a suitable scale to work with.
Probably end up being Tiger Defenser, 10 Heavy, HMC, SG Semi Flat. Tiger Defenser because war lion is fragile and tbh I prefer tiger defenser anyway, SG Semi Flat because Metal Change Base introduces too many variables for my liking.
May end up only doing 10 rounds because I don't want to wear my storm grip too much, so I hope you will understand.
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
This is a vast improvement. Great job, th!nk. 
I'm not sure why it was originally written that G Upper was built for Upper Attack ... I mean, anyone with eyes can see that the slopes are too shallow like it currently states, so it makes no sense to say it was built with that intention. The four Smash Attack points at the end of each slope are blatantly obvious.
Anyways, you can go ahead and post this, but it would be nice if you could post some comparative tests between Eight Spiker and G Upper. Eight Spiker has been the most popular recommended choice for left spin Smash for as long as I can remember; I don't ever remember people really talking about G Upper, so it would be interesting to see how they compare. In theory, G Upper's has a wider attack range/weight distribution would make it superior, but we'll have to see. Here are some tests I just conducted that would contest this hypothesis:
Attack Stadium
Dragoon customs shot with Dragon Winder
10bBistool shot with Standard Winder
Dragoon Customs:
AR: Eight Spiker/G Upper
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left
SG Core: HMC
BB: SG Metal Flat 2
10bBistool vs. Eight Spiker Custom
10bBistool: 2 wins (2 OS)
Eight Spiker: 13 wins (10 KO, 3 OS)
KO Percentage: 67%
10bBistool vs. G Upper Custom
10bBistool: 0 wins
G Upper 12 wins (5 KO, 7 OS)
3 draws
KO Percentage: 33%
Would have liked to test in Tornado Attack ... but I don't have one. I figured Tornado Balance and Tornado Balance Type S would've been too imbalanced.
G Upper threw 10bBistool around efficiently and was able to deplete its spin easily, but it's Smash Attack didn't seem anywhere near as effortless as Eight Spiker's did. Perhaps Eight Spiker's Spike Attack/larger amount of Smash points has a greater value than G Upper's wide attack range.
I'm not sure why it was originally written that G Upper was built for Upper Attack ... I mean, anyone with eyes can see that the slopes are too shallow like it currently states, so it makes no sense to say it was built with that intention. The four Smash Attack points at the end of each slope are blatantly obvious.
Anyways, you can go ahead and post this, but it would be nice if you could post some comparative tests between Eight Spiker and G Upper. Eight Spiker has been the most popular recommended choice for left spin Smash for as long as I can remember; I don't ever remember people really talking about G Upper, so it would be interesting to see how they compare. In theory, G Upper's has a wider attack range/weight distribution would make it superior, but we'll have to see. Here are some tests I just conducted that would contest this hypothesis:
Attack Stadium
Dragoon customs shot with Dragon Winder
10bBistool shot with Standard Winder
Dragoon Customs:
AR: Eight Spiker/G Upper
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left
SG Core: HMC
BB: SG Metal Flat 2
10bBistool vs. Eight Spiker Custom
10bBistool: 2 wins (2 OS)
Eight Spiker: 13 wins (10 KO, 3 OS)
KO Percentage: 67%
10bBistool vs. G Upper Custom
10bBistool: 0 wins
G Upper 12 wins (5 KO, 7 OS)
3 draws
KO Percentage: 33%
Would have liked to test in Tornado Attack ... but I don't have one. I figured Tornado Balance and Tornado Balance Type S would've been too imbalanced.
G Upper threw 10bBistool around efficiently and was able to deplete its spin easily, but it's Smash Attack didn't seem anywhere near as effortless as Eight Spiker's did. Perhaps Eight Spiker's Spike Attack/larger amount of Smash points has a greater value than G Upper's wide attack range.
![[Image: beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/VLksgt2k/beybase-signature-is-beyblade-a-sport-Article.jpg)
yeah..nice edit th!nk...however..the black dragoon gt ..is it its name really just special starter..?
i thought its name is something like more "special" since it came fro a whole set with grip and accessories...
(i think i gonna ask evo about the name of the set and will edit this post)
does gold,silver,bronze tournament ship worth to be mention?they are among Dragoon Gt's version too..
the rest are great..well done th!nk..
i thought its name is something like more "special" since it came fro a whole set with grip and accessories...
(i think i gonna ask evo about the name of the set and will edit this post)
does gold,silver,bronze tournament ship worth to be mention?they are among Dragoon Gt's version too..
the rest are great..well done th!nk..
Quote:Special Black Dragoon GT Set
General Info
Takara released another recolor of Dragoon GT in a big set of full of G-Revolution accessories in full black color. There is nothing special with the black recolor Dragoon GT in the set just that it is in black color with same color scheme of other Dragoon GT for its stickers. All the design, parts are very similar to the other Dragoon GT.
Contents
The content of this set are :
• 1 Black Dragoon GT
• EZ Customized grip (black version)
• Rubber grip (black version)
• Spring loader (black)
• Sniper scope (black)
• EZ shooter spring shooter custom (black)
• Winder grip (black)
• Reverse L shooter (black)
• Dragon winder (black)
Overall
While Dragoon GT is not wise-performance as most of the parts for Dragoon GT are outclassed, this epic set should be bought only for collection purpose due to its high rarity value.
the set's article..is it worth to mention?haha
as for the name..even Evo is not sure since it is in japanese..so i think i will just use the default name of the set first..
Kei: I have tornado attack, will do some tests myself with the combo in the draft asap. Could you redo the draws though, just for a comparative overall winrate?
Remember, the main point of SG Metal Flat 2 is that it capitalised on ARs with good stopping power to get Victories via OS,
At the least, G upper still maintained an even win rate (better not counting draws, counting draws as a half, it is still .5 ahead). How close were the outspins?
That said, HMC+SG metal flat 2 is generally not the best for left spin smash IMO, same spin has better stopping power, and, idk, I prefer mg cores with wide defense, HMC makes it a bit heavy, though it helps with control (I actually use 10 wide and an HMC, by choice, on my cross griffon+metal flat 2 combo.) Also, g upper's good weight distribution is compromised than an HMC, and the extra height means its additional upper attack isn't as useful.
I based most of my findings on storm grip, so yeah.
But yeah, will try and provide some storm grip tests asap, as it's the best combo I've found for it. I will probably use something stronger than 10bBistool, as I generally get close to 100% against it with most good attackers. I'd try to reproduce your tests for examination but I don't have my BB-10 with me.
I will try to get the article up with any relevant changes from findings of those tests once they're done.
Oh, and thanks for the testing, and I'm glad you liked the rewrite, should be plenty more once I get back from holidays, progress on the ridiculous numbers of articles/rewrites I planned is going far better than expected! ;p
Benjohadi: recolours and names aren't my strong point, I took it from the current article and added detail about the red recolour as Kai-v mentioned it recently.
When set articles are placed on the wiki, included recolours should be given relevant links to the set articles.
By the way, sorry this is so patchy, using my phone :c
Remember, the main point of SG Metal Flat 2 is that it capitalised on ARs with good stopping power to get Victories via OS,
At the least, G upper still maintained an even win rate (better not counting draws, counting draws as a half, it is still .5 ahead). How close were the outspins?
That said, HMC+SG metal flat 2 is generally not the best for left spin smash IMO, same spin has better stopping power, and, idk, I prefer mg cores with wide defense, HMC makes it a bit heavy, though it helps with control (I actually use 10 wide and an HMC, by choice, on my cross griffon+metal flat 2 combo.) Also, g upper's good weight distribution is compromised than an HMC, and the extra height means its additional upper attack isn't as useful.
I based most of my findings on storm grip, so yeah.
But yeah, will try and provide some storm grip tests asap, as it's the best combo I've found for it. I will probably use something stronger than 10bBistool, as I generally get close to 100% against it with most good attackers. I'd try to reproduce your tests for examination but I don't have my BB-10 with me.
I will try to get the article up with any relevant changes from findings of those tests once they're done.
Oh, and thanks for the testing, and I'm glad you liked the rewrite, should be plenty more once I get back from holidays, progress on the ridiculous numbers of articles/rewrites I planned is going far better than expected! ;p
Benjohadi: recolours and names aren't my strong point, I took it from the current article and added detail about the red recolour as Kai-v mentioned it recently.
When set articles are placed on the wiki, included recolours should be given relevant links to the set articles.
By the way, sorry this is so patchy, using my phone :c
I think it would make sense just making a seperate article of the set since i'm doing articles on the Plastic and HMS sets now. It would have to be expanded but I can do that.
Benjohadi, I'm not sure what it's actual name was but ... "Special Starter Set" does seem accurate to some degree. And yes, the gold/silver/bronze versions should be added as well.
I'm not going to re-do the draws. The point of the tests was to show which AR had better Smash, and my tests reflect that.
Yeah, it did at least do that, but again, the goal of these tests was to see which had better Smash Attack. I would have tested it with Storm Grip Base as well, but as I was pulling my parts out to test, I realized that I had sold my only one by accident haha.
The outspins were very close.
I knew you would say something about the HMC + G Upper lol. I kept the combos the same because I wanted to evaluate their effectiveness without any variables. I should have done both tests without it, probably.
That's fine. I was definitely a bit rusty when doing these tests; I haven't seriously done any plastics testing in years!
(Jan. 15, 2012 9:16 AM)th!nk Wrote: Kei: I have tornado attack, will do some tests myself with the combo in the draft asap. Could you redo the draws though, just for a comparative overall winrate?
I'm not going to re-do the draws. The point of the tests was to show which AR had better Smash, and my tests reflect that.
(Jan. 15, 2012 9:16 AM)th!nk Wrote: Remember, the main point of SG Metal Flat 2 is that it capitalised on ARs with good stopping power to get Victories via OS,
At the least, G upper still maintained an even win rate (better not counting draws, counting draws as a half, it is still .5 ahead). How close were the outspins?
Yeah, it did at least do that, but again, the goal of these tests was to see which had better Smash Attack. I would have tested it with Storm Grip Base as well, but as I was pulling my parts out to test, I realized that I had sold my only one by accident haha.
The outspins were very close.
(Jan. 15, 2012 9:16 AM)th!nk Wrote: Also, g upper's good weight distribution is compromised than an HMC, and the extra height means its additional upper attack isn't as useful.
I knew you would say something about the HMC + G Upper lol. I kept the combos the same because I wanted to evaluate their effectiveness without any variables. I should have done both tests without it, probably.
(Jan. 15, 2012 9:16 AM)th!nk Wrote: I will probably use something stronger than 10bBistool, as I generally get close to 100% against it with most good attackers. I'd try to reproduce your tests for examination but I don't have my BB-10 with me.
That's fine. I was definitely a bit rusty when doing these tests; I haven't seriously done any plastics testing in years!
Smash attack in plastics has the advantage of being able to exert stopping power, so KO rates don't necessarily reflect all of the smash attack power (though if g upper is doing better solely through outspins I will alter the draft to reflect that). But yeah, storm grip should give a clearer picture, so I will do that later today. If it turns out that these tests completely contradict what I've said somehow I will obviously alter the article.
Okay, did testing. On my holiday, no less!
Basically, I got better KO's and better overall results with G Upper. Also, I hate storm grip so much, but G Upper makes it bearable.
Looks like your attack launches are fine, though for plastics, BB-10 is quite badly attack-biased (not making this up so I don’t look bad, you can go through my posts from after I got Tornado Attack, you’ll see the same things).
Will edit the draft to reflect my findings shortly. I will also take your results into account, obviously, and include personal preference etc etc.
Attack Combo
AR: Eight Spiker or G Upper
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Left SG
BB: Storm Grip
Compact
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Neo Right (HMC)
BB: SG Semi-Flat
Stadium: Tornado Attack
Launchers: Neo Left, Right. Both on EZ Grips with Rubber, Dragon Winders
Compact Straight Shot, Attackers Sliding Shot
Compact Launches First all Rounds.
Storm Grip near mint, but effort is needed to get proper movement, as with all Storm Grips I’ve encountered. SG Semi Flat is mint.
Draws Redone, noted, NOT INCLUDED IN CALCULATIONS: I still don't feel comfortable including draws, but both had 1 draw by DKO.
Tests done in this order: 7 rounds with 8 spiker, 7 rounds with G Upper, 8 rounds with 8 Spiker, Rounds with G Upper, to minimize effects of wear, and also because the suspense was killing me!
Key: 8S=Eight Spiker Combo, C=Compact, G=G Upper.
Eight Spiker Tests:
Winrates
Eight Spiker: 2/15, 1KO, 1OS. Win Rate: 13.33%. KO Rate: 6.67%
Compact: 13/15, 2 KO, 11 OS.
Draws: 1 DKO
G Upper Tests:
Winrates
G Upper: 7/15, 2KO, 5OS. Win Rate: 46.67%. KO Rate:13.33%
Compact: 8/10, All OS.
Draws: 1 DKO
Overall notes: Eight Spiker hits a bit harder, yes, but with storm grip, its flower pattern is easily interrupted, G upper handles this better, giving more consistent performance (the first KO was fromm the compact hitting it before it got moving, even). G Upper seems to have more rotational smash, whereas Eight Spiker is more traditional, and arguably better once you’re moving.
G Upper brought upper attack into the mix (again despite reverse spin, maybe it’s destabilisation but jeez), and the more circular perimeter meant it was able to equalise spin more effectively, and OS through the scraping it induced in the opponent and its excellent weight distribution.
Oh, as a pure attack base, Storm Grip is really, really, really cruddy, so slooooow. G Upper is the only AR that’s worth using on it.
Also, the low KO rates are because I was using a very defensive compact, and storm grip sucks.
Okay, so I decided to see how I’d do with 10bBistool, and these two ARs, using a magnecore instead of HMC, because yeah, too heavy!
AR: G Upper/8 Spiker
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left SG (MG Core)
BB: SG Metal Flat 2
Compact: 10bBistool
G Upper tests
Winrates
G Upper: 8/10=80%, 6KO, 2OS, KO Rate: 60%
10bBistool: 2/10= 20%, both OS.
Notes: G Upper KOd easily, OS'd after destabilising, blah.
Eight Spiker
Winrates:
Eight Spiker: 6/10 = 60%, 4KO, 2 OS, KO Rate: 40%
10bBistooL: 4/10 = 40%, 2KO, 2 OS
Overall notes: G Upper made more contact, better range etc. I agree on 8 Spiker making KO’s look easier, but the statistics don’t care for looks
Maybe I should have used an HMC for better comparison, but the stadia make most of the difference.
Overall KO Rate Comparisons
Storm Grip (Vs Defensive Compact)
G Upper: 13.33%
Eight Spiker: 6.67%
SG Metal Flat 2 (Vs 10bBistool)
G Upper: 60%
Eight Spiker: 40%
So umm yeah, woo G Upper!
UltraBlader: Yeah, sets get their own articles and will be linked like I said Do go to work on doing set articles, because you seem to be the best person for the job!
Edit: Draft Updated, check the post.
Basically, I got better KO's and better overall results with G Upper. Also, I hate storm grip so much, but G Upper makes it bearable.
Looks like your attack launches are fine, though for plastics, BB-10 is quite badly attack-biased (not making this up so I don’t look bad, you can go through my posts from after I got Tornado Attack, you’ll see the same things).
Will edit the draft to reflect my findings shortly. I will also take your results into account, obviously, and include personal preference etc etc.
Attack Combo
AR: Eight Spiker or G Upper
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Left SG
BB: Storm Grip
Compact
AR: Tiger Defenser
WD: 10 Heavy
SG: Neo Right (HMC)
BB: SG Semi-Flat
Stadium: Tornado Attack
Launchers: Neo Left, Right. Both on EZ Grips with Rubber, Dragon Winders
Compact Straight Shot, Attackers Sliding Shot
Compact Launches First all Rounds.
Storm Grip near mint, but effort is needed to get proper movement, as with all Storm Grips I’ve encountered. SG Semi Flat is mint.
Draws Redone, noted, NOT INCLUDED IN CALCULATIONS: I still don't feel comfortable including draws, but both had 1 draw by DKO.
Tests done in this order: 7 rounds with 8 spiker, 7 rounds with G Upper, 8 rounds with 8 Spiker, Rounds with G Upper, to minimize effects of wear, and also because the suspense was killing me!
Key: 8S=Eight Spiker Combo, C=Compact, G=G Upper.
Eight Spiker Tests:
Detail (Click to View)
Eight Spiker: 2/15, 1KO, 1OS. Win Rate: 13.33%. KO Rate: 6.67%
Compact: 13/15, 2 KO, 11 OS.
Draws: 1 DKO
G Upper Tests:
Detail (Click to View)
G Upper: 7/15, 2KO, 5OS. Win Rate: 46.67%. KO Rate:13.33%
Compact: 8/10, All OS.
Draws: 1 DKO
Overall notes: Eight Spiker hits a bit harder, yes, but with storm grip, its flower pattern is easily interrupted, G upper handles this better, giving more consistent performance (the first KO was fromm the compact hitting it before it got moving, even). G Upper seems to have more rotational smash, whereas Eight Spiker is more traditional, and arguably better once you’re moving.
G Upper brought upper attack into the mix (again despite reverse spin, maybe it’s destabilisation but jeez), and the more circular perimeter meant it was able to equalise spin more effectively, and OS through the scraping it induced in the opponent and its excellent weight distribution.
Oh, as a pure attack base, Storm Grip is really, really, really cruddy, so slooooow. G Upper is the only AR that’s worth using on it.
Also, the low KO rates are because I was using a very defensive compact, and storm grip sucks.
Okay, so I decided to see how I’d do with 10bBistool, and these two ARs, using a magnecore instead of HMC, because yeah, too heavy!
AR: G Upper/8 Spiker
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left SG (MG Core)
BB: SG Metal Flat 2
Compact: 10bBistool
G Upper tests
detail (Click to View)
G Upper: 8/10=80%, 6KO, 2OS, KO Rate: 60%
10bBistool: 2/10= 20%, both OS.
Notes: G Upper KOd easily, OS'd after destabilising, blah.
Eight Spiker
Detail (Click to View)
Eight Spiker: 6/10 = 60%, 4KO, 2 OS, KO Rate: 40%
10bBistooL: 4/10 = 40%, 2KO, 2 OS
Overall notes: G Upper made more contact, better range etc. I agree on 8 Spiker making KO’s look easier, but the statistics don’t care for looks
Maybe I should have used an HMC for better comparison, but the stadia make most of the difference.
Overall KO Rate Comparisons
Storm Grip (Vs Defensive Compact)
G Upper: 13.33%
Eight Spiker: 6.67%
SG Metal Flat 2 (Vs 10bBistool)
G Upper: 60%
Eight Spiker: 40%
So umm yeah, woo G Upper!
UltraBlader: Yeah, sets get their own articles and will be linked like I said
Do go to work on doing set articles, because you seem to be the best person for the job! Edit: Draft Updated, check the post.
Seems like we need someone else to do more tests!
One question: how did the compact/10bBistool achieve their KOs against Eight Spiker? Did the Eight Spiker custom self-KO itself while the compact/10bBistool was wall-saved?
edit: The new G Upper description is a fair enough assessment, for now at least.
One question: how did the compact/10bBistool achieve their KOs against Eight Spiker? Did the Eight Spiker custom self-KO itself while the compact/10bBistool was wall-saved?
edit: The new G Upper description is a fair enough assessment, for now at least.
One was from it colliding early into the match and netting a normal KO (probably due to eight spiker's recoil, and keep in mind storm grip's tip has a tiny surface area), two were from Eight-Spiker's recoil and wall saves and the last one was a near DKO, where it left the stadium (through the same exit somehow) a whole second after Eight Spiker, reminiscent of cartoon lemmings or something.
Yeah, more tests would be nice, though the parts needed are scarce. Will go post over in plastic parts testing requests in a little, see if we can get some bites.
I think 'more reliable' is a fair term, it had a smaller loss% in all of our tests, so even if it isn't more powerful in terms of pure smash attack, it's a more reliably choice nonetheless. I think it's a very safe wording, anyway.
EDIT: Article Up!
Also, I am working on a rewrite of the smash attack article. Given it seems to perform equally in terms of winrates to Eight Spiker, would G Upper be a worth addition, at least as an "honorable mention"? Both our tests do show it gets a more consistent winrate in smash attack customs.
Yeah, more tests would be nice, though the parts needed are scarce. Will go post over in plastic parts testing requests in a little, see if we can get some bites.
I think 'more reliable' is a fair term, it had a smaller loss% in all of our tests, so even if it isn't more powerful in terms of pure smash attack, it's a more reliably choice nonetheless. I think it's a very safe wording, anyway.
EDIT: Article Up!
Also, I am working on a rewrite of the smash attack article. Given it seems to perform equally in terms of winrates to Eight Spiker, would G Upper be a worth addition, at least as an "honorable mention"? Both our tests do show it gets a more consistent winrate in smash attack customs.