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"Don't look down on midgets!" Low Height Defense Combos!

Jan. 27, 2011  8:33 PM
 
(Jan. 27, 2011  6:55 PM)wolborgMS Wrote: is there any paricualr reason why ? They don't have many uses we find a fairly decent 1 mind
Nobody uses Light Wheels anywhere around the world ... They are also banned from WBBA tournaments as far as I know. Just consider it an "advice" rule : it keeps newbies from using them and inevitably losing all their matches ...
Feb. 05, 2011  5:00 AM
 
If any tests are Okay, I'll test a Earth Bull 100RS VS MF Lightning L Drago CH120RF.
I'll edit this post as soon as I'm done.

Conditions: MFB Attack Stadium, alternating beylaunchers (L and R) Earth Bull 100RS Shot first.

Earth Bull 100RS VS MF Lightning L Drago CH120RF (Ch120 Mode)
11-9 / 55% - 45%
Feb. 05, 2011  5:53 AM
 
(Jan. 27, 2011  6:47 PM)wolborgMS Wrote: canwe try plastic wheels(yes im am actually saying this) plastic reduces the attack although it will lost weight it may work ...

Im gonna try this, Yes I know they are illegal for tournaments and i saw Kai-V's post.

Results:
What I used:
MF-H Heat Bull 85R2F (Worn)
Flame Pegasis T125RF (Yes, I know Flame is bad at Attack, I wanted to try Yu Tendou's combo)
Attack stadium
Beylauncher + Grip

Results:
HB wins 1 time (Wut!? How did it win?!)
FP wins 9 times
Feb. 05, 2011  5:57 AM
 
hypersonic

It's pretty obvious it was gonna win. That was pretty much SPAM and had nothing to do with this topic.
Feb. 05, 2011  8:59 AM
 
Okay, so I was going to mention this tomorrow but I didn't want to forget.
So I remember at the Bey Fray tournament, I was using Rock Virgo 100 B as a Defense combo.
When playing against defense, stamina, and high-attackers, it showed almost no recoil; which was surprising since
Rock usually has quite a lot, and I thought that it had something to do with the low height.

I'll post some testing tomorrow for sure.
Feb. 05, 2011  12:01 PM
 
In my opinion, stamina wheels were overlooked for defense purpose, so I did the tests below:

Equipments:
Beylauncher LR
Takara-Tomy attack stadium
Attack combos are always launched first
Attack combos are launched with lack practiced sliding shoot
Draws are redone

MF Hell Kerbecs 90RS
Comparing tall combo: MF Hell Kerbecs BD145(Boost mode)RS

VS MF-H Lightning L-Drago(Upper mode) 100R2F

(90)Hell Kerbecs: 4 outspins/ 2 KOs
Lightning L-Drago: 1 outspin/ 3 KOs
Kerbecs winning rate: 60%

(BD145)Hell Kerbecs: 9 outspin/ 1 KO
Kerbecs winning rate: 100%Wut!?

VS MF Pegasis 145RF

(90)Hell Kerbecs: 2 outspins/ 6 KOs
Pegasis: 0 outspins/ 2 KOs
Kerbecs winning rate: 80%
Pegasis winning rate: 20%

(BD145)Hell Kerbecs: 5 outspins/ 5 KOs
Kerbecs winning rate: 100%

Conclution: Metal doesn't absorb much force, so the low combo let the attack combos made some KOs; plastics did quite good at absorbing the smash attacks, resulting the astonishing (to me) 100% winning rate of the BD145 combo.
Feb. 05, 2011  3:29 PM
 
(Feb. 05, 2011  8:59 AM)Pyro Wrote: Okay, so I was going to mention this tomorrow but I didn't want to forget.
So I remember at the Bey Fray tournament, I was using Rock Virgo 100 B as a Defense combo.
When playing against defense, stamina, and high-attackers, it showed almost no recoil; which was surprising since
Rock usually has quite a lot, and I thought that it had something to do with the low height.

I'll post some testing tomorrow for sure.
Did you honestly not play a LLD 100RF in that tournament? Wut!?
LOL anyway, sounds cool bro.
Feb. 05, 2011  4:07 PM
 
(Feb. 05, 2011  5:57 AM)Ray Joker Wrote: hypersonic

It's pretty obvious it was gonna win. That was pretty much SPAM and had nothing to do with this topic.

It was a low height defence combo that used a Heat wheel.
Feb. 16, 2011  9:00 PM
 
@ Hypersonic

Before this gets off-topic, I think this discussion is for Metal Wheels only, as these are used in WBO sanctioned tournaments, while Light Wheels are banned. Plus, it wasn't tested with a top-tier. Anyways, lets end it here.

@ Pyro

Wow.
Feb. 23, 2011  9:41 PM
 
(Jan. 15, 2011  2:35 PM)Diamond Wrote: I’m pretty sure the idea of "low height Defense combos" have been looked into before, but I don't think that extensive tests were ever posted.

Anyway, here are some tests I’ve done to show how 85 height Defense combos perform compared to their 145 height variation (GB145):

Equipment:
MFB Attack Type BeyStadium
Beylauncher/BeyLauncher L
All Beys launched at 100% power
MF-H Earth Aquario 85/GB145CS always launched first


MF Lightning L Drago (Upper Mode) _____RF (Click to View)


MF Gravity Perseus (Right Spin, Counter Mode) _____RF (Click to View)


Vulcan____ 90/85 RF/R2F (Click to View)


Meteo L Drago CH120LRF (Click to View)


It's also probably worth mentioning that, although most of you probably figured this out already, MF-H Earth Bull 85CS achieved a 100% win rate over MF-H Earth Bull GB145CS.

It would be great if some of you can post some tests of Low Height Defense Combos together with some tests of 145 height ones as a comparison.
(I'm especially eager to see how Vulcan will do against MF-H Earth Bull/Aquario 85/90 CS/RS/RSF, since I have a feeling that it wouldn't achieve as high a win rate as it does with 145 height Defense combos.)
whats the scines in it metal against metal makes more of an impact than plastic on metal. There is no longer a top tier high height attack combo so ..?
Feb. 24, 2011  3:44 AM
 
I think the reason why low hight is good for defense also is because when a defense type is on 85/90 it has more contact between it and the attack type on the metal wheel. With GB145, attack types like MF Lightning L Drago 90RF hit the bottom of earth(could be any defense wheel) which cause it to destabilize or get KO'ed. But when a defense is placed on a lower track this will not happen because there is little recoil on the earth wheel. Also according to your results these combo's cannot constantly beat MF Vulcan Horuseus 85R2F(while still showing improvement from 30% to 50%). Against MF Gravity Perseus 90RF your combo MF-H Earth Aquario 85CS did worse than its top-tier counterpart. From what I've seen adding 85/90 to top-tier defense combo's mostly improves win rates for high attacker's and left spin attacker's. Sorry if people think I'm stating the obvious.
Feb. 24, 2011  7:13 PM
 
Thought I would contribute a bit.

TT Attack
Attack type shot 2nd
Light Launcher L, Bey Launcher

MF-H Earth Bull 100RSF vs MF Lightning L-Drago H145R2F (Click to View)
Apr. 04, 2011  9:39 PM
 
Important discovery for low defense types. I never thought D could stand up to LLD
I tested a lot, almost for 3 hours.
Here is my testing

Combo: MF-H Libra 85D
Conditions:
I used a beylauncher and beylauncher L, both are attached to a launcher grip. All battles were MF-H Libra 85D battled against a NON-attack type the launches were alternated. Libra was launched first vs attack types. All attack types were launched with the sliding shoot pattern. All draws were re-tested.
Test are in the BB-10 attack type stadium.
Results:
Results:
MF-H Libra 85D vs MF Lighting L Drago(upper) 90RF

MF-H Libra 85D: 7
MF Lighting L Drago(upper) 90RF: 3
Draws: 0
MF-H Libra 85D win percentage: 70%

MF-H Libra 85D vs MF Pegasus 145RF

MF-H Libra 85D: 8
MF Pegasus 145RF: 2
Draws: 0
MF-H Libra 85D win percentage: 80%

MF-H Libra 85D vs Burn Bull AD145WD

MF-H Libra 85: 9
Burn Bull 145WD: 1
Draws: 0
MF-H Libra 85D win percentage: 90%

MF-H Libra 85D vs Earth Bull AD145WD

MF-H Libra 85D: 7
Earth Bull AD145WD: 3
Draws: 1
MF-H Libra 85D win percentage: 70%

MF-H Libra 85D vs MF-H Earth Bull GB145RS

MF-H Libra 85D: 10
MF-H Earth Bull GB145RS: 0
Draws: 1
MF-H Libra 85D win percentage: 100%
**********************************************************************************
Here is my "control" data
Results:

MF-H Libra GB145RS vs MF Pegasus 145RF

MF-H Libra GB145RS: 8
MF Pegasus 145RF: 2
Draws: 1
MF Pegasus 145RF win percentage: 20%

MF-H Earth Bull GB145RS vs MF Pegasus 145RF

MF-H Earth Bull GB145RS: 9
MF Pegasus 145RF: 1
Draws: 1
MF Pegasus 145RF win percentage: 10%

MF-H Earth Bull GB145RS vs MF Lightning L Drago 90RF

MF-H Earth Bull GB145RS: 1
MF Lighting L Drago 90RF: 9
Draws: 2
MF Lightning L Drago 90RF: 90%

MF-H Libra GB145RS vs MF Lightning L Drago 90RF

MF-H Libra GB145RS: 2
MF Lightning L Drago 90RF: 8
Draws: 1
MF Lightning L Drago 90RF win percentage: 80%
Apr. 05, 2011  1:15 AM
 
(Apr. 04, 2011  9:39 PM)othellog Wrote: Important discovery for low defense types. I never thought D could stand up to LLD
I tested a lot, almost for 3 hours.
Here is my testing
*Tests*
Did D get caught in the Tornado Ridge to stop itself from getting KOed?

Anyway, Thanks for the tests, Othellog!
Apr. 05, 2011  1:17 AM
 
(Apr. 05, 2011  1:15 AM)Diamond Wrote:
(Apr. 04, 2011  9:39 PM)othellog Wrote: Important discovery for low defense types. I never thought D could stand up to LLD
I tested a lot, almost for 3 hours.
Here is my testing
*Tests*
Did D get caught in the Tornado Ridge to stop itself from getting KOed?

Anyway, Thanks for the tests, Othellog!
Did you test the combo MF-H Libra 85D though, can you test it I need data to compare to.
Apr. 05, 2011  1:38 AM
 
I found that D's are useful for attack and stamina, MF-H Libra was what I used in my D combo (used a D125 though). The weight of that thing can equal the speed of a freshly launched RF at its peak, and the thing hits so hard. This combo has potential, I'll test it when my BB-107 arrives around the middle of the month. Until then, I can only test in a SVS. Crying
Apr. 05, 2011  2:38 AM
 
Second Testing!!!!
Combo: MF-H Libra 85D
Conditions:
I used a beylauncher and beylauncher L, both are attached to a launcher grip. All battles were MF-H Libra 85D battled against a NON-attack type the launches were alternated. Libra was launched first vs attack types. All attack types were launched with the sliding shoot pattern. All draws were re-tested.
Test are in the BB-10 attack type stadium.
Results:

MF-H Libra 85D vs MF Meteo L Drago 90RF

MF-H Libra 85D: 6
MF Meteo L Drago 90RF: 4
Draws: 1
MF-H Libra 85D win percentage: 60%

MF-H Libra 85D vs Burn Bull 145WD

MF-H Libra 85D: 9
Burn Bull 145WD: 1
Draws: 0
MF-H Libra 85D win percentage: 90%



MF-H Libra 85D vs Burn Bull DF145WD

MF-H Libra 85D: 9
Burn Bull DF145WD: 1
Draws: 1
MF-H Libra 85D win percentage: 90%
Apr. 05, 2011  3:50 AM
 
what was the origonal logic that defense and stamina types had to be on high tracks anyway. from
personal expierience, my Earth Wolf 105 WD does better than my Earth Eagle 145 WD.

EDIT: SO...can anyone tell me why?
Apr. 05, 2011  3:58 AM
 
WOW......... I got to say for that small track there is some strong attack!
It's all in the way it tilts!
Apr. 05, 2011  5:05 AM
 
Libra 90 D seems prtty good.
Mind testing it against Meteo L Drago 145 RF
Apr. 05, 2011  5:26 AM
 
Dude, I've played just for fun with my MF-H libra 100 d (I added the Mf-H when I played) from the super deck set, and it was super easy to KO.
I honestly have no clue how it got such a high win rate. I actually was playing with this for fun, just so I had an uncustomized combo (other than Mf-H) I would KO for fun.
Apr. 05, 2011  8:08 PM
 
After getting approval to make a new thread for my combo(by Kai-V), all new tests will be posted on my MF-
H Libra 85D thread.
Apr. 06, 2011  10:54 AM
 
hmm very interesting I'll go ahead and do some testing as well as compare tests with BD145
Apr. 09, 2011  7:50 PM
 
Basalt as a LTDC:

MF-H Basalt Cancer 90CS vs. MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS
MF-H Basalt Cancer 90CS win rate: 7/10
MF Quetzalcoatl CH120CS win rate: 3/10

Okay, generally unsurprising results, but:

MF-H Basalt Cancer 90CS vs. MF Lightning LDrago 85R2F
MF-H Basalt Cancer 90CS win rate: 10/10
MF Lightning LDrago 85R2F win rate: 0/10

The same goes for Vulcan and Quetz on 85..
I'm doing more tests on LLD CH120RF and Gravity. (Perhaps high-tracks do marginally better than lower ones, for some inexplicable reason.)
Apr. 11, 2011  1:18 PM
 
THANKS FOR THE TESTS and they were very surprising against LLD
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