Diablo Discussion
I think he was saying "despite all that recoil". Hopefully our local bluenames are mindful of that 
Anyway, my thoughts on this: ugh, the weight of this thing means despite the huge amount of recoil and contact points, it's still doing fine for defense because it can smash things out based on their momentum and it's own rotational force, even on something like CS... That's just way too much.
At least it hasn't ended the world in attack, yet, but I want to see those comparison tests (I also believe these should be mandatory).
Anyway, my thoughts on this: ugh, the weight of this thing means despite the huge amount of recoil and contact points, it's still doing fine for defense because it can smash things out based on their momentum and it's own rotational force, even on something like CS... That's just way too much.
At least it hasn't ended the world in attack, yet, but I want to see those comparison tests (I also believe these should be mandatory).
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
Oh, thanks think!
As for the weight, we need some light stuff. This thing is too heavy for kos like Blitz, in my own experience.
But so far its looking like an ok purchase.
As for the weight, we need some light stuff. This thing is too heavy for kos like Blitz, in my own experience.
But so far its looking like an ok purchase.
Hmm, not -so- excellent results. My thoughts :- This is like something -Balanced- Good attack and Defence, but not as excellent as VariAres and Duo. So I want to request Diablo whatever TH170CS(semi-aggro) (or any track and bottom that's suitable for Balance.)
![[Image: ares.png]](https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc487/Haikal_Kushahrin/ares.png)
![[Image: userbrad.gif]](https://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc487/Haikal_Kushahrin/userbrad.gif)
I will of course do some testing of my own once mine gets here. If it really is too heavy to move on RF, maybe R2F will become mandatory.
What is it's own recoil like? I mean, if it really is just too heavy for it's own good, as long as it can still resist it's own recoil (both in terms of movement through the stadium and in terms of its own rotation) without a metal face/mf-h, we can look into slowly shaving off the weight, using normal faces, MF-L or MF-F. MF-L Diablo ___ CH120R2F, maybe.
Jay, have you done solo spins of other well-known stamina wheels before? If so, could you use the same track (say, a B: D that you know the time on) with Diablo UnicornoII and do a couple of solo spins, and a link to the reference tests? I'm curious to see how much stamina this has on its own, just to see what the weight distribution and balance are like.
What is it's own recoil like? I mean, if it really is just too heavy for it's own good, as long as it can still resist it's own recoil (both in terms of movement through the stadium and in terms of its own rotation) without a metal face/mf-h, we can look into slowly shaving off the weight, using normal faces, MF-L or MF-F. MF-L Diablo ___ CH120R2F, maybe.
Jay, have you done solo spins of other well-known stamina wheels before? If so, could you use the same track (say, a B: D that you know the time on) with Diablo UnicornoII and do a couple of solo spins, and a link to the reference tests? I'm curious to see how much stamina this has on its own, just to see what the weight distribution and balance are like.
(Jan. 01, 2012 4:41 AM)th!nk Wrote: I think he was saying "despite all that recoil". Hopefully our local bluenames are mindful of that
Anyway, my thoughts on this: ugh, the weight of this thing means despite the huge amount of recoil and contact points, it's still doing fine for defense because it can smash things out based on their momentum and it's own rotational force, even on something like CS... That's just way too much.
At least it hasn't ended the world in attack, yet, but I want to see those comparison tests (I also believe these should be mandatory).
I concur (on all points) but especially on the need for comparison tests.
In my mind, we should have a small set of standard tests that establish a baseline for attack/defense and stamina tests. All member tests must begin with these tests first and then move to the new tests. In this way we can account for varying levels of skill and strength, so that the member's new tests can be put into context. For example: VariAres vs MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS, then VariAres vs MF-H Diablo Aquario 85RB.
Alternately, members could just post an accompanying test that is a mirror except for the new part being tested. For example: VariAres vs MF-H Basalt Aquario 85RB, then VariAres vs MF-H Diablo Aquario 85RB.
We should probably find somewhere better to discuss this, but I think that for combo testing and finding a general benchmark, the former is more useful, that is; results of a well-known matchup.
For part testing, the second is a good choice, but as it would be a lot of work to get a standard for each different setup, I'd imagine the crossover with the first format would be enough to give a good idea of the individual part's ability, as in, the tester would have a benchmark of (Attacker) vs MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS, and would likely test against MF-H (New Defense Wheel) (Appropriate Clear Wheel) BD145CS.
I like MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS as a defensive benchmark for wheel testing, because it seems to be a combo that is a good litmus test for attack skill. If you were really keen, you could do a meta-analysis to find which combo's do give the best indication of success levels with other combo's, but I'd be comfortable with that.
Seems a bit rambly and over-wrought, this, but hopefully a few of you will see what I'm getting at?
For part testing, the second is a good choice, but as it would be a lot of work to get a standard for each different setup, I'd imagine the crossover with the first format would be enough to give a good idea of the individual part's ability, as in, the tester would have a benchmark of (Attacker) vs MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS, and would likely test against MF-H (New Defense Wheel) (Appropriate Clear Wheel) BD145CS.
I like MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS as a defensive benchmark for wheel testing, because it seems to be a combo that is a good litmus test for attack skill. If you were really keen, you could do a meta-analysis to find which combo's do give the best indication of success levels with other combo's, but I'd be comfortable with that.
Seems a bit rambly and over-wrought, this, but hopefully a few of you will see what I'm getting at?
Im with ya. Anyhow, about the spin time, I have A3, so not that good, but you just want 5 and then an average, correct?
jay you owned variares R145 R2F with a diablo unicorno 90r2f
(Jan. 01, 2012 5:22 AM)Jaygrazer Wrote: Im with ya. Anyhow, about the spin time, I have A3, so not that good, but you just want 5 and then an average, correct?
The mold of what you use doesn't matter, as long as you have a benchmark to compare to (solo spins of it with another "known-stamina" wheel, phantom eg).
5 and an average would be fine, I just need an indication
Would it help if i go ahead and do the solo spins as well? And also the Alignment of the faces with the core could affect the weight distribution on the wheel.
Mmm, that's true. If you have time, you could do comparative solo spins of it in each orientation, and then whichever is best would be compared to a "known-good" stamina wheel on that exact track.
(Jan. 01, 2012 5:49 AM)th!nk Wrote: Mmm, that's true. If you have time, you could do comparative solo spins of it in each orientation, and then whichever is best would be compared to a "known-good" stamina wheel on that exact track.
Yes, ill do it tomorrow morning, everybody in my dwelling is currently asleep and i don't have the chance to do that at the moment. So Phantom and Scythe? Possibly Duo?
Just one, Phantom or Scythe, up to you 
Shadow lets do BD145CS, and I call Scythe, you Phantom.
Woah, woah.
I'd prefer something more conventional for stamina, we're talking solo spin, not stamina tests. 145B would be great because B isn't hugely affected by wear, but WD would be fine, as at most it is only 20 spins (there are 3? orientations for diablo, and then one more solo spin of either scythe or phantom). B: D would be fine too, if need be, though the wear or bearing wear-in might affect results slightly?
Scythe or Phantom are just there so we can get an idea of how Diablo compares to either of them. Scythe might be better because it isn't quite as good in solo spin, so it's more of a comparable target, but either is fine.
I mean, you are doing the testing so it's up to you, but I find BD145CS introduces way too many variables (and CS wears far too quickly).
If you just solo spin all three different orientations of diablo, 5 each, average, and then one set of Scythe/Phantom solo spins as a benchmark. 5 is a good number, but even 3 gives us a rough idea, if like me you have absolutely no patience for doing solo spins.
I'd prefer something more conventional for stamina, we're talking solo spin, not stamina tests. 145B would be great because B isn't hugely affected by wear, but WD would be fine, as at most it is only 20 spins (there are 3? orientations for diablo, and then one more solo spin of either scythe or phantom). B: D would be fine too, if need be, though the wear or bearing wear-in might affect results slightly?
Scythe or Phantom are just there so we can get an idea of how Diablo compares to either of them. Scythe might be better because it isn't quite as good in solo spin, so it's more of a comparable target, but either is fine.
I mean, you are doing the testing so it's up to you, but I find BD145CS introduces way too many variables (and CS wears far too quickly).
If you just solo spin all three different orientations of diablo, 5 each, average, and then one set of Scythe/Phantom solo spins as a benchmark. 5 is a good number, but even 3 gives us a rough idea, if like me you have absolutely no patience for doing solo spins.
(Jan. 01, 2012 2:11 AM)Dan Wrote:(Jan. 01, 2012 1:52 AM)sum 472 Wrote: 230 is bad for defense, and the free-spinning mode only works with XIIRC.
230 is not necessarily bad at Defense. Don't have a drastic change in opinion because Kei, Arupaeo or whomever disagrees. Which is clearly the case.
I'm not saying 230 is stellar, but to say it is outright "bad" isn't correct. It used to be great, remember that. (I'm not trying to make that a validation, just a reminder.)
It's mainly used in stamina nowadays, with TH170 having the more variety, and being used for Defense more because it's harder to KO. And yeah, I remember the MF-H Earth/Burn/Hell/ Basalt Bull/Aquario/Kerbecs 230CS days.
How is Diablo's weight distribution, I'd think it be bad with the uneven faces but maybe Aquario and BD145 could make it a bit more balanced.
I can do 145WD.
(Jan. 01, 2012 4:41 AM)th!nk Wrote: I think he was saying "despite all that recoil". Hopefully our local bluenames are mindful of that
Anyway, my thoughts on this: ugh, the weight of this thing means despite the huge amount of recoil and contact points, it's still doing fine for defense because it can smash things out based on their momentum and it's own rotational force, even on something like CS... That's just way too much.
At least it hasn't ended the world in attack, yet, but I want to see those comparison tests (I also believe these should be mandatory).
Yes, thank you Th!nk. I was meant to say "Even with all dat recoil" but I forgot to add the "even".
![[Image: Qwertxj3SigV1.png]](https://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb388/SDamonCronous/SDamonCronous%20Album%202/Qwertxj3SigV1.png)
![[Image: dragonbar_651600.png]](https://qwertxj3.dragonadopters.com/dragonbar_651600.png)
(Jan. 01, 2012 6:21 AM)sum 472 Wrote: How is Diablo's weight distribution, I'd think it be bad with the uneven faces but maybe Aquario and BD145 could make it a bit more balanced.
I'll be figuring that out tomorrow cause as i stated before, there are different alignments with the metal frame and the core, 4 different variations, ill be doing solo spin times on 145B to determine which variation is most evenly distributed.
@Th!nk: Also, should i be using Aquario for the clear wheel on the solo spins?
Stick to Kerbecs (or another 3-sided CW, but preferrably Kerbecs) on Diablo, and whatever is good on the other wheel you do as a benchmark. Keeping CW's the same when wheels have different number of sides is basically always unfair to one wheel.
Could you try Diablo Kerbecs BD145RF/R2F and Diablo Aquario 90MF VS Top Tier Attacker?
Alright, I did some testing. 20 rounds, Diablo Nemesis 125RDF Vs. Variares R145RF. The results may shock you.
VariAres R145RF Vs. Diablo Nemesis 125RDF
Diablo Nemesis 125RDF: 100% (15 KO's, 5 OS from VariAres not getting knocked out of the stadium)
VariAres R145RF: 0% (15 KO's, 5 OS from VariAres not getting knocked out of the stadium)
I will be doing more testing soon. I'm sorry about not putting it in the standard testing format. I haven't been here long enough to do testing, so this is my first time. So sorry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wcM1SoZz...m3vFshB_bS
Check the video.
EDIT 2: Once I get my TH170 I will do some balance testing? Or some better balance testing. Diablo Nemesis TH170RDF? How does that sound?
VariAres R145RF Vs. Diablo Nemesis 125RDF
Diablo Nemesis 125RDF: 100% (15 KO's, 5 OS from VariAres not getting knocked out of the stadium)
VariAres R145RF: 0% (15 KO's, 5 OS from VariAres not getting knocked out of the stadium)
I will be doing more testing soon. I'm sorry about not putting it in the standard testing format. I haven't been here long enough to do testing, so this is my first time. So sorry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wcM1SoZz...m3vFshB_bS
Check the video.
EDIT 2: Once I get my TH170 I will do some balance testing? Or some better balance testing. Diablo Nemesis TH170RDF? How does that sound?
![[Image: 344e0xf.png]](https://i46.tinypic.com/344e0xf.png)