While I think Curse and from what I've seen in others' testing, Abyss, are very obvious problems for the format as currently proposed, Death is a little more borderline. It isn't as good in opposite as Curse so it can lose a good driver match up. But it is *heavy* and still able to use Drift to a degree to at least get draws. Overall, it's similar to Imperial though it is about 5g heavier with Solomon+MCC and 1S, and a little less aggressive.
I will be testing with and without metal chips and cores to analyse their effect here as preliminary testing indicated to me that Death may be acceptable without them (it's a little too good with them). I have done basic stamina tests so far. Further tests will be uploaded as they are completed.
Weight
Death Solomon[MCC] 1S = 33.3g
Death Satan 1S = 29.4g
Imperial Valkyrie = 28.6g
As you can see, even without metal chips it's still heavier than the heaviest meta layer in GT!
Same-Spin Stamina Tests
Death Solomon[MCC] Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina)
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure with T Launcher Used, Discs/Drivers swapped after round 5 and 15
Death Win Rate: 60% (7OS, 5KO)
Lord Win Rate: 40% (7OS, 1KO)
0 Draws
So, this was not what I expected. Death actually ties Lord (Right) for stamina matches but also it can KO it every so often as well. I really expected Lord to stomp it here. So much so I did 20 rounds in case it was chance - and then it only got worse. OS's were very very close. Death always controlled the centre at the end of the match and this meant that while it had less spin left, it would consistently destabilise Lord while itself remaining upright. You may be able to bank it for even better results - 2 person testing of this would be great.
Death Satan Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina)
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure with T launcher used, Discs/Drivers swapped after round 5
Death Win Rate: 30% (2KO, 1OS)
Lord Win Rate: 70% (5OS, 2KO)
0 Draws
Stopped at 10 rounds here. Without the obscene weight advantage from metal chips and cores to carry it, Death can no longer reliably maintain spin, destabilise and KO Lord. For such an aggressive layer, this setup feels much less like an outlier to the format.
Opposite Spin Stamina Tests
Death Satan Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina)
Vs
Lord Spriggan Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (LEFT)
Standard Procedure (lord launched 1st R1) with 70% launch strength, Discs/Drivers swapped after round 5
Death Win Rate: 40% (3KO, 1 OS)
Lord Win Rate: 60% (5 OS, 1KO)
4 Draws
Death only won once by OS through a lucky hit, otherwise it has to rely on KOs here.
Death Solomon[MCC] Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina)
Vs
Lord Spriggan Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (LEFT)
Standard Procedure (lord launched 1st R1) with 70% launch strength, Discs/Drivers swapped after round 5
Death Win Rate: 40% (4KO)
Lord Win Rate: 60% (5OS, 1KO)
8 Draws
Lord won every OS victory, but note the 100% increase in draws over the previous match, and one extra KO for death.in exchange for the lucky OS from last time.
I will need to do driver advantage tests (oe testing if a layer is good enough to overcome a driver disadvantage or bad enough to lose with advantage) at some point, but generally it's not exceptional in opposite spin except for being heavy enough to use stamina stuff and still hit reasonably hard.
Rubber Attack Tests
Benchmark: Judgment (Pro) Achilles Sting Xtreme' (Red Rubber) Goku
Vs
Tact Longinus Ratchet Drift Goku
Standard procedure except tact is weak launched
Judgment Win Rate: 70% (7 KO)
Tact Win Rate: 30% (2OS, 1 KO)
Great pallette cleanser, Tact is actually pretty monstrous to be honest - this is on drift. It's a lot scarier than Master IMO. Still, Judgment is Burst's greatest monster, and the only thing that can stop it when launched well are wall saves here.
Death Solomon[MCC] Sting Xtreme' (Red Rubber) 1S
Vs
Tact Longinus Ratchet Drift Goku
Standard procedure except tact is weak launched
Death Win Rate: 50% (5KO)
Tact Win Rate: 50% (5OS)
If there were a jolt' with soft rubber death might be ok on it BC it's when it hits at an angle that it sends things flying.
Death Satan Sting Xtreme' (Red Rubber) 1S
Vs
Tact Longinus Ratchet Drift Goku
Standard procedure except tact is weak launched
Death Win Rate: 30% (3KO)
Tact Win Rate: 70% (5OS, 2KO)
Death only really gets one or two big hits before it gasses, so it's way more prone to wall saves, which hurt bad here - it had awful luck with wall saves and some very near misses. Honestly it didn't feel much worse than with Solomon, I don't think it really makes that big a difference.
Destroy "Attack" Tests
Death Satan 00Expand Destroy' 1S
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure, Lord launched first.
Death Win Rate: 30% (3 KO)
Lord Win Rate: 70% (all OS)
Death isn't as big as imperial and without Solomon it isn't as heavy either. Stamina is okay but not enough to make an impact here. The one late game KO was a big surprise tho.
Death Solomon[MCC] 00Expand Destroy' 1S
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure, Lord launched first.
Death Win Rate: 40% (3KO, 1 OS)
Lord Win Rate: 60% (6 OS)
Draws: 1 Double KO
If death gets early hits in it can use sheer weight to knock the wind out of Lord or KO it. Destroy' is still not a great attack driver IMO.
Imperial Valkyrie 00Expand Destroy'
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure, Lord launched first. Imperial is Mold 2 from Pro Command Dragon, fully awakened.
Imperial Win Rate: 70% (4OS, 3KO)
Lord Win Rate: 30% (2OS, 1KO)
Draws: 1 Double KO
If it can make enough contact, Imperial just bullies lord into submission.
Drift "Defense" Tests
Comparison to be used: Imperial (Trust Me), plus compared with aH tests from Curse Thread Post
Death Solomon[MCC] 00Wall Drift 1S
Vs
Zwei Diabolos1 Convert Qc'
Standard Procedure
Death Win Rate: 50% (1KO, 4OS)
Zwei Win Rate: 50% (all KO)
Death Satan 00Wall Drift 1S
Vs
Zwei Diabolos1 Convert Qc'
Standard Procedure
Death Win Rate: 20% (1OS, 1 KO)
Zwei Win Rate: 80% (All KO)
Such is the obscenity of weight. Stripped of its massive weight advantage, Death no longer stops before the exit before rolling back to the centre, but it's recoily shape acts more sensibly as it reels into the pits.
Imperial Valkyrie 00Wall Drift
Vs
Zwei Diabolos1 Convert Qc'
Standard Procedure. Imperial is Mold 2 from Pro Command Dragon
Imperial Win Rate: 30% (all OS)
Zwei Win Rate: 70% (all KO)
This imperial combo isn't that great, but the key thing is it also works as an LLD counter without also murking Zwei as much (the two may be left spin dragons but they work very differently).
Also a traditional Defense Match Up, just showing that Death Solomon [MCC] 1S is a bit much.
Zwei Diabolos1 Convert Qc' vs Archer Hercules 00 Keep'
aH launched about 50% strength. Zwei launched FULL YEET. Convert in Balanced Mode
Zwei Win Rate: 40% (all KO)
aH Win Rate: 60% (5 OS, 1 KO)
As you can see, there's only slight benefit to using conventional Defense over a half decent LAD setup. Hm.
That wraps me up for tonight. I think Death may be OK if you get rid of the metal chips and cores, or if you get rid of curse, abyss (which should probably both go anyway) and death maybe you can keep the metal chips? Need to test glide and get a King. 😅
I will be testing with and without metal chips and cores to analyse their effect here as preliminary testing indicated to me that Death may be acceptable without them (it's a little too good with them). I have done basic stamina tests so far. Further tests will be uploaded as they are completed.
Weight
Death Solomon[MCC] 1S = 33.3g
Death Satan 1S = 29.4g
Imperial Valkyrie = 28.6g
As you can see, even without metal chips it's still heavier than the heaviest meta layer in GT!
Same-Spin Stamina Tests
Death Solomon[MCC] Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina)
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure with T Launcher Used, Discs/Drivers swapped after round 5 and 15
Results (Click to View)
Lord Win Rate: 40% (7OS, 1KO)
0 Draws
So, this was not what I expected. Death actually ties Lord (Right) for stamina matches but also it can KO it every so often as well. I really expected Lord to stomp it here. So much so I did 20 rounds in case it was chance - and then it only got worse. OS's were very very close. Death always controlled the centre at the end of the match and this meant that while it had less spin left, it would consistently destabilise Lord while itself remaining upright. You may be able to bank it for even better results - 2 person testing of this would be great.
Death Satan Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina)
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure with T launcher used, Discs/Drivers swapped after round 5
Results (Click to View)
Lord Win Rate: 70% (5OS, 2KO)
0 Draws
Stopped at 10 rounds here. Without the obscene weight advantage from metal chips and cores to carry it, Death can no longer reliably maintain spin, destabilise and KO Lord. For such an aggressive layer, this setup feels much less like an outlier to the format.
Opposite Spin Stamina Tests
Death Satan Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina)
Vs
Lord Spriggan Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (LEFT)
Standard Procedure (lord launched 1st R1) with 70% launch strength, Discs/Drivers swapped after round 5
Results (Click to View)
Lord Win Rate: 60% (5 OS, 1KO)
4 Draws
Death only won once by OS through a lucky hit, otherwise it has to rely on KOs here.
Death Solomon[MCC] Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina)
Vs
Lord Spriggan Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (LEFT)
Standard Procedure (lord launched 1st R1) with 70% launch strength, Discs/Drivers swapped after round 5
Results (Click to View)
Lord Win Rate: 60% (5OS, 1KO)
8 Draws
Lord won every OS victory, but note the 100% increase in draws over the previous match, and one extra KO for death.in exchange for the lucky OS from last time.
I will need to do driver advantage tests (oe testing if a layer is good enough to overcome a driver disadvantage or bad enough to lose with advantage) at some point, but generally it's not exceptional in opposite spin except for being heavy enough to use stamina stuff and still hit reasonably hard.
Rubber Attack Tests
Benchmark: Judgment (Pro) Achilles Sting Xtreme' (Red Rubber) Goku
Vs
Tact Longinus Ratchet Drift Goku
Standard procedure except tact is weak launched
Results (Click to View)
Tact Win Rate: 30% (2OS, 1 KO)
Great pallette cleanser, Tact is actually pretty monstrous to be honest - this is on drift. It's a lot scarier than Master IMO. Still, Judgment is Burst's greatest monster, and the only thing that can stop it when launched well are wall saves here.
Death Solomon[MCC] Sting Xtreme' (Red Rubber) 1S
Vs
Tact Longinus Ratchet Drift Goku
Standard procedure except tact is weak launched
Results (Click to View)
Tact Win Rate: 50% (5OS)
If there were a jolt' with soft rubber death might be ok on it BC it's when it hits at an angle that it sends things flying.
Death Satan Sting Xtreme' (Red Rubber) 1S
Vs
Tact Longinus Ratchet Drift Goku
Standard procedure except tact is weak launched
Results (Click to View)
Tact Win Rate: 70% (5OS, 2KO)
Death only really gets one or two big hits before it gasses, so it's way more prone to wall saves, which hurt bad here - it had awful luck with wall saves and some very near misses. Honestly it didn't feel much worse than with Solomon, I don't think it really makes that big a difference.
Destroy "Attack" Tests
Death Satan 00Expand Destroy' 1S
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure, Lord launched first.
Results (Click to View)
Lord Win Rate: 70% (all OS)
Death isn't as big as imperial and without Solomon it isn't as heavy either. Stamina is okay but not enough to make an impact here. The one late game KO was a big surprise tho.
Death Solomon[MCC] 00Expand Destroy' 1S
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure, Lord launched first.
Results (Click to View)
Lord Win Rate: 60% (6 OS)
Draws: 1 Double KO
If death gets early hits in it can use sheer weight to knock the wind out of Lord or KO it. Destroy' is still not a great attack driver IMO.
Imperial Valkyrie 00Expand Destroy'
Vs
Lord Dragon Wheel (Hasbro, 2*) Xtend+(TT, Stamina) (RIGHT)
Standard Procedure, Lord launched first. Imperial is Mold 2 from Pro Command Dragon, fully awakened.
Results (Click to View)
Lord Win Rate: 30% (2OS, 1KO)
Draws: 1 Double KO
If it can make enough contact, Imperial just bullies lord into submission.
Drift "Defense" Tests
Comparison to be used: Imperial (Trust Me), plus compared with aH tests from Curse Thread Post
Death Solomon[MCC] 00Wall Drift 1S
Vs
Zwei Diabolos1 Convert Qc'
Standard Procedure
Results (Click to View)
Zwei Win Rate: 50% (all KO)
Death Satan 00Wall Drift 1S
Vs
Zwei Diabolos1 Convert Qc'
Standard Procedure
Results (Click to View)
Zwei Win Rate: 80% (All KO)
Such is the obscenity of weight. Stripped of its massive weight advantage, Death no longer stops before the exit before rolling back to the centre, but it's recoily shape acts more sensibly as it reels into the pits.
Imperial Valkyrie 00Wall Drift
Vs
Zwei Diabolos1 Convert Qc'
Standard Procedure. Imperial is Mold 2 from Pro Command Dragon
Results (Click to View)
Zwei Win Rate: 70% (all KO)
This imperial combo isn't that great, but the key thing is it also works as an LLD counter without also murking Zwei as much (the two may be left spin dragons but they work very differently).
Also a traditional Defense Match Up, just showing that Death Solomon [MCC] 1S is a bit much.
Zwei Diabolos1 Convert Qc' vs Archer Hercules 00 Keep'
aH launched about 50% strength. Zwei launched FULL YEET. Convert in Balanced Mode
Results (Click to View)
aH Win Rate: 60% (5 OS, 1 KO)
As you can see, there's only slight benefit to using conventional Defense over a half decent LAD setup. Hm.
That wraps me up for tonight. I think Death may be OK if you get rid of the metal chips and cores, or if you get rid of curse, abyss (which should probably both go anyway) and death maybe you can keep the metal chips? Need to test glide and get a King. 😅
![[Image: UwZsp7A.png]](https://i.imgur.com/UwZsp7A.png)
