World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations

Competitive Metal Fight Beyblade Combos

Feb. 12, 2012  7:37 PM
 
Both of our Attack Wheels are three sided, which is kinda eh for it. However, you did mention to me it was working well with variares, and it has always been an underrated track. It apparently also did quite well on Diablo at a tournament the other day.

That said, as much as I hate to say it, I do think it needs more testing :c
Feb. 13, 2012  3:58 AM
 
I definitely tested it on Blitz a while back, but 100 and so forth did better than it, iirc. Against my usual MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS.

I tried it on Beat(which I am aware is not on the list) in the same playsession and it was just total bad everywhere for always and forever.

EDIT: Found my test for Blitz. http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-H145?pid...#pid818982
Feb. 13, 2012  4:31 AM
 
Strange.. I've had positive results with any Wheel I've ever put on it which were significantly better than most other tracks.

Will try and get some tests up too.
Feb. 21, 2012  4:42 PM
 
Quote:Anyway, the whole rest of the top tier list is in right spin besides Vari, so Blitz doesn't see those problems against left spin. With Vari, you literally have to KO the other beyblade with the first like three hits. After that it will just self KO or get outspun. Blitz still KOs at lower spin rates and doesn't have so much recoil that it KOs itself.
After finally using Blitz, IMO it is better than Vari. I really just don't think that extra smash is worth that horrible recoil. I did read something about the performance of Vari getting worse over time though. What do you guys think?
Feb. 21, 2012  4:45 PM
 
I've read more stuff about Blitz degrading over time than Vari, actually... but never experienced it myself. It really seems to be almost entirely a matter of preference, for most people.

I like Blitz, of course, but I'm also not really good with Attackers.
Feb. 21, 2012  9:56 PM
 
I also think Blitz gets more consistent KOs maybe because it can KO at lower spin rates compared to Vari.
Feb. 21, 2012  11:29 PM
 
VariAres definitely has an expiration date.
By the way, I never got what you were referring to when you said "Blitz doesn't see those problems against left spin."
The consensus around here is preference, as Hazel said, and I think it is going to stay that way..
Feb. 22, 2012  12:01 AM
 
What I mean is, since the whole tier list is in right spin (except Vari), it isn't really likely to face something in left spin.
Feb. 22, 2012  1:02 AM
 
Which is relevant because..?
What problems does Blitz face vs. Left Spin? I'm not familiar.
Feb. 22, 2012  2:04 AM
 
Oh! I only mentioned that because people would argue that it's harder for something to KO something in the opposite spin direction. Also, some people list Vari's dual spin selection as an advantage over Blitz.
Feb. 22, 2012  2:12 AM
 
Yeah seriously I don't think people would argue that here..
Anyway, Vari does achieve some late-game KO's from my testing. We've had a lot of people (IIRC) test to see which was better and it really came down to which people liked better—which was reflected in their results.
Feb. 22, 2012  6:47 AM
 
I would, left spin helps against weak-launched left-spin beys, which, while not very popular right now due to numerous more reliable defensive options, are possible (MF-H LDG BD145CS/EDS, for example).
Dual Spin is just an added layer of safety.
Mar. 08, 2012  9:02 PM
 
Probably about time we put up Diablo for defense, no? I guess attack can wait, with flash being so promising, and this kind of "sets of threes" things we have going, though I still think Diablo deserves a spot.

Probably too early for Flash, but just keep an eye on it Smile

Still hoping more Diablo balance combos show up eventually, I really need to fix/replace my Beylauncher L/R...

One other thing, I note that we have Scythe listed with 100, and Duo with 85. IIRC they both have pretty similar overhangs, don't they? It'd be nice to see how Duo LTSC's performed, IMO.

Also man someone needs to get a PD and test it properly...
Mar. 09, 2012  9:04 PM
 
Yo, I've gone and tested Diablo and Flash for Attack, Death and Scythe for Stamina so my opinions are as follows:

Diablo shouldn't be put up, really, and I think Flash will create that 3rd spot. Also, with my new Scythe, out of box WD's and mint Death I can say that I personally believe Scythe shouldn't be in Stamina anymore. (Perhaps replaced with Death imo) It lost consistently.

On the topic of Basalt, I still think it should be taken off. Diablo is just marginally better and I'm yet to form a real view on Wing. With Flash just trashing it badly, not a great first showing. (Then again it seems all Defense Wheels are now. Awesome.) I'll test it so more right now vs. some other wheels.

Probably change Basalt to Duo or Phantom for that Balance custom?
Mar. 10, 2012  1:56 PM
 
Not Duo, Duo TH170CS isn't really that great. Way too easy to OS. MF-H Duo TH170RDF, MF-H Phantom Canncer/Cygnus you were saying? TH170CS for balance.

Did you post the scythe vs death tests? I agree that Scythe should go and Death should replace it, though Flash could replace both in the end, need to see more testing, but yeah, we do need the actual tests for scythe vs death.

Definitely think Flash should go up for attack, but I don't know how our more cautious members will feel about that, and we may need to look into what tracks should be used first.
Apparently it has really low recoil, I mean, it's enough that it can be use successfully on Metal Flat. I'd like to see how it goes against Diablo Anti-Attack.

Speaking of Diablo Anti-Attack, it's something I feel we should really seriously look at putting up under defense, it seems to me to be the best avenue for defense at the moment. I don't think that's a symbol of an unhealthy metagame, either. Having to use a relatively risky combinations to take out the highest-risk, highest-reward type is not a bad thing and it should be the most comfortable thing against flashMF attackers, especially if they manage to outspin RDF defense. As for Diablo Anti-Attack, R145RF/R2F, BD145R2F, basically, under defense or its own category (Anti-Attack). Perhaps more testing is needed but yeah.

I have been playing with MFB a little more lately, managed to get one of my beylaunchers to work, so the Diablo Anti-Attack thing is based on that. Perhaps an Anti-Attack category with that and I guess MF-H Basalt R145RF? I guess more testing vs flash would be nice but yeah. I really think these combinations deserve to be here, as they really are the best choice against Attack, and I think they'll become a key part of the metagame, especially with a little more publicity. They are then countered by defense (particularly RDF). Diablo R2F can also handle stamina (and with R145, weaker defense combinations) so it's overall pretty nice.

Diablo also needs to go up for defense IMO, Dan, I know you were saying it wasn't a defensive superpower, but it is probably the next best thing after Duo and I'd definitely use it over basalt (though the lack of stamina means we could justify leaving basalt up, I don't really think, with Duo and Diablo, that it's top-tier, Death vs Basalt could be worth arguing about but I think Death is overall just much safer than basalt, especially in that it has better stamina). I don't think Basalt is top-tier any more, and it doesn't really show up in the Winning Combo's anywhere near as much as other things any more from what I can tell.

Lastly, I think Defense should only have MF-H, not the first Metal Face. Some minor argument could be made that the first Metal Face gives you the ability to OS other defenders, but using different tracks is infinitely more effective at that, giving you various other benefits, rather than just weakening your defense (the main point of defense) to allow you a chance of OSing otherwise identical combinations.

Oh, one last thing, Wing. I know, there's not much testing. Dan did a little and I'll let him link it (hard to tell with Flash 19/1ing it and Death), but I've been extremely impressed by it, and basically all the tests we have seen have been good. I would give it a spot, as well as one for Anti-Attack, with the same parts as Diablo (even with R145RF. Not R2F on R145 though, RF's marginally better stamina is handy). Wing works because in Ironclad mode (that's the one with the arrow over the zero right?), it's really round, well balanced, and very, very compact, meaning it's really hard to budge. It's also extremely heavy. Three-Sidedness gives it great symmetry with Kerbecs, UnicornoII, R145, BD145. The gap it leaves is yet to be a big deal against anything from what I've seen. Dying to get a better beylauncher so I can do some real solid testing with it but it is hugely underrated and IMO easily top tier, it's just that it comes with Duo so it gets overshadowed.

Thoughts?


Mar. 10, 2012  4:19 PM
 
Yeah Flash should go up for Attack. You were alluding to Flash being good for Stamina (perhaps). No. Just no. All the wheels we have up currently completely destroy it unless you use Attack mode to KO, and not really OS at all.

Diablo for Anti-Attack is great. Really the only thing to stop Flash/VariAres/Blitz. I say this because I tested MF-H Fusion Kerbecs BD145RF and even it did decently. I would not use R145 though.. BD145 would be infinitely better.

Diablo for Defense.. I guess so but I think you are belittling Death. I personally believe Death is right below Duo, but especially better than any other options currently available. Wing for Defense/Anti-Attack.. A little skeptical. It is rather light compared to our other Wheels from what I can tell (it getting knocked around well) and I don't think the giant gap between it and BD145 (when placed together) is really helping it. I could see it do well under a low track Defense type combo. (Which god damn hasn't been put up.. Seriously.)
Anyway, I'll test Wing more for you.


And yes, MF-H Phantom Cygnus TH170CS was what I was talking about. Just amazing. My favorite combo for sure.
Mar. 10, 2012  5:02 PM
 
Okay, just curious as in testing I saw it seemed to do okay for stamina (~50% against Duo and Phantom iirc, which of course means they're only getting 50% against it).

R145 is just because you still do well against other attackers (especially with Diablo, I'd probably stick with BD145 on Wing myself, but it seems to be fine with R145), while being more capable against weaker defenders (particularly those with BD145) than BD145 allows.

Wing is actually a pretty heavy wheel, and I found it worked really well, even with that gap. I find it works significantly better than basalt at any rate. The gap worries me but yeah, never seen it cause issues.

And yeah, LTDC should go up. They're competitive (they would have been dominant for defense if BD145/230 hadn't come along, kinda stole their thunder in the "protection from low attackers" market), low centre of gravity and not getting hit from below or anything really helps, as well as being out of the range of a few attackers and anyone who decides to use BD145 on an attacker still (lol). So throw 85 onto defense?

From what I've seen and heard lately, I also think RB is worth putting up for defense. Yet to get one though.

Also, you were saying about MF-H on stamina, it's not *such* a bad idea, I'd like to hear other opinions first. It really helps against chance KO's and allows you to launch more aggressively to handle non-MF'd stamina types. That said, I think just using Duo is a better idea than MF-H'd Phantom generally, so eh, interested in peoples thoughts.

Mar. 10, 2012  5:14 PM
 
I'll retest vs. less amazing opponents.

We'll see which is better, then, but I think Diablo is still potent enough on BD145 considering it goes past the boost disk.

Defense tips overcrowded. Sticky grip 2.0 anyone?
Mar. 10, 2012  5:18 PM
 
The thing is against opposing defenders on BD145 that sit back far enough that all you get (still) is BD-BD contact, as well as generally being more reliable against all defensively weak opponents and not beng that much worse against attack. Testing is needed, of course. Still, I definitely think MF-H Diablo Kerbecs/UnicornoII BD145R2F/RF should go up as anti-attack or defense or whatever. Even put it up for defense and add those tips, I dunno (TH170 for example would then be there and is more of an attack type overall so ehhh).

Someone should do that again, I was going to but I don't have RB or a good enough launcher right now. I think RSF and RS will probably have to bite the dust soon enough, with RDF and RB around. Comparative defense tests and then stamina tests against each other (perhaps on tracks which equalise the overall height of each combination, I dunno.)

Mar. 10, 2012  6:56 PM
 
Yo, so I got some Flash tests up and it did just as I expected to: horrible.

Unfortunately, my informal tests of Diablo BD145RF say that Flash may have bad Stamina, but it can still outspin Diablo.. I'll get on that formally to see how much that actually matters, but they did manage to stay in the stadium frequently enough when I was goofing around.
Mar. 10, 2012  7:00 PM
 
Diablo has appalling stamina, haha. Against flash on RF, I don't expect it to do so well other than scoring KO's (which R145 may actually do better, for better speed etc), though it should do decently off that, but Flash on Metal Flat, which seems to be a legitimate competitive setup (opinions?), should be destroyed by it.
Mar. 11, 2012  5:46 AM
 
So to sum up stuff we agree on, for posterity/not sifting through this jumble of words:

-Just plain MF-H on Defense

-Flash, for sure for Attack as far as I'm concerned (and as far as it can throw current defenders out of the stadium)

-Diablo should be on Defense, perhaps Wing as well. I did some tests and yeah, Wing looks good vs. anything not Flash related. (perhaps break open my new VariAres for this..)

-Basalt should really be off. Balance combo should be replaced with MF-H Phantom TH170CS.

-Like I've proposed before, but is definitely essential here with Flash around: Anti-Attack. MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145/R145RF. (then again this could just be added to Attack with and asterisk or something..) Definitely need more opinions on that/Metal Wheel options, but yeah Th!nk and I shall sing in unison about it.


Also something I'd like to bring up: MF-H for Stamina types. Thoughts? (haha Th!nk)
I really need to get another H145 but I really think it should go on VariAres because it was just plain good. (Completely disregarding symmetry here.) Ah! Also: MF-x Phantom AD145RF, OS's (and on occasion KOs) some of the best Defense combos. I'd really find it cool to have that up here..

Also, everyone's standing on Cygnus Clear Wheel? I find it amazing, but I want some input.
Mar. 11, 2012  5:49 AM
 
MF-F Phantom Cancer AD145RF. Either mode works, but that's certainly the setup I'd use. If you did well with Cygnus, perhaps that too?

We also agreed on Phantom TH170CS, Danno.

I also like H145 for attack.
Mar. 11, 2012  6:02 AM
 
Edited appropriately.

I was just thinking/testing and was wondering:

Wing is good on BD145, sure but should that validate its addition to the tier list considering in other tracks (TH170) it is beyond trash vs. Attack?
Mar. 12, 2012  4:27 AM
 
Just don't put TH170 on Wing.

MF-H Wing Kerbecs/UnicornoII 85/BD145 RF/CS/RDF/RS/RSF
Split off BD145RF into Anti-Attack or whatever.

I mean seriously, we do need to actually think about Tracks properly, haha.
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