World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. Beyblade Discussion Beyblade Customizations

Competitive Metal Fight Beyblade Combos

Jul. 08, 2014  6:22 PM
 
Duo B : D actually performs marginally better against Dragooon customs than SA165EWD does very consistently for me and the other tournament players in my area. You can't get the same effect with Dragooon, but because Bearing Drive's height is at just the right position to let Duo actually remain totally upright even after coming to a complete stop (an effect Dragooon can't produce), it usually outperforms SA165.

Again, you can't get the same result with Dragooon (the reason SA165 is so superior, given its LAD is so much more valuable when toppling is inevitable, regardless of which setup you use).
Jul. 30, 2014  2:53 AM
 
Sorry for the double post guys, but I've got a question.

Does anyone else feel like MF-H Flash ______ W145MF is inappropriately categorized? Being (arguably) the weakest/lightest Attack Wheel on the competitive list, Flash on a Metal Flat setup doesn't strike me as a pure Attack combination.

It's a very effective custom, but I feel like it's more along the lines of Balance, since it does have extraordinary Stamina for a Beyblade with so much Attack power. I think we should move it (especially as {MSF-L} Balro Balro BD145MF is categorized as Balance, and the two share a very similar nature).

I would also propose we add Revizer and Killerken to MSF-L Girago Dragooon SA165 [Attack] EWD. I feel like limiting it to such a specific combination is a bit restrictive, and TBH, the Precession and LAD you can get out of the setup is so lethal (on par with F230CF/GCF), you could really slap any Chrome Wheel on it and it would still be incredibly potent. Oh, and I would suggest making MSF-L optional as well, since the difference is so minute it's barely possible to judge which is better, and random variation between results/parts could easily overshadow it.

I wouldn't add Genbull, just because, with SA165 in ZRG Attack mode, Genbull's underside is exposed, and that's where most of its recoil comes from. It does work, but it makes me uncomfortable to expose the underside in a way that could disrupt late-game stability.

So basically, the Dragooon Stamina section of the list would read:

Quote:Dragooon
  • {MSF{-H}} (Revizer/Genbull/Killerken/Girago) Dragooon SA165[Normal] EWD
  • {MSF-L} (Girago/Revizer/Killerken) Dragooon SA165[Zero-G Attack] EWD

And MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzeb) W145 MF would be moved to Balance, and categorized with MSF-L Balro Balro BD145MF.

Just a small update I thought we could toss in there. Nothing too big, but I feel like it would help (especially the additional Chrome Wheel options for Dragooon SA165 [Attack] EWD).

As something we could try later, I'd also like to look into testing Revizer Dragooon SA165 [Attack] RDF (that exact combo specifically - seems to be the best combination for the setup). My RDFs are all worn at the moment, so I can't really get completely accurate results. It doesn't seem to work very well (it's not bad, but it isn't any better than Normal Mode really). It works great with EWD because the angle of precession matches so perfectly, but RDF is a different height and precesses at a different angle altogether, and with SA165's Attack Mode causing more friction with the stadium floor due to the gear-like indents on its edge, if the angle isn't close enough to compensate it likely won't work, although, again, my RDFs are worn, which means the tip's unusual height is changing the angle of precession in an unfavorable way for Dragooon.

I have 3 mint RDF Bottoms coming in the mail within the next week. When I get them, I'll test, but I thought this might be an interesting thing to try, given how well SA165's Attack Mode worked for EWD. Right now, from the testing I've done, it doesn't look too promising, but again; worn RDFs.

EDIT: Oh, and Kei, the tier lists in this thread and the "MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion" thread aren't updated. Might wanna fix that.
Aug. 03, 2014  12:02 AM
 
I didn't even really notice that, hah. Flash W145MF should be in Balance, and, IMO, it should have been since its creation.
Aug. 04, 2014  7:30 PM
 
Agreed. I've updated the Dragooon section and moved MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzeb) W145 MF to Balance.
Sep. 03, 2014  8:31 PM
 
Is anybody opposed to adding MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF to the list?

I've been using it in events and so far it's been extremely effective. Certainly just as, if not more, successful than the RSF variant. It's literally my favorite combination ever, hands-down.
Sep. 04, 2014  12:40 AM
 
I can't speak to it as I only have one wyvang, but if I've ever heard of a combo built for balro rather than wyvang that sounds like it. The extra stamina alone is well worth any small loss of attack.
Dec. 04, 2014  9:08 PM
 
Alright, school is finally winding down for the holidays, so here we go:

Quote:
ATTACK


Wyvang
  • {MSF{-H}} Wyvang Wyvang (GB145/W145/H145) (R2F/RF/LRF)
  • {MSF{-H}} Wyvang Dragooon SA165[Zero-G Attack] (R2F/RF/LRF)

Balro
  • {MSF{-H}} Balro Balro (CH120/D125/T125/W145) (RF/R2F/LRF)

Bahamdia
  • {MSF-M/MSF-L} Bahamdia Dragooon BD145 (LRF/R2F/RF)

Flash
  • MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzeb) (GB145/H145/S130/CH120) (R2F/RF/LRF)


DEFENSE


Duo
  • MF-H Duo (Aquario/Cancer/Hades/Cygnus) BD145 RF

Revizer/Killerken
  • MSF-H (Revizer/Killerken) (Revizer/Killerken) BD145 RDF
  • MSF-H (Revizer/Killerken) Killerken BD145 RF
  • MSF-H Revizer (Revizer/Killerken) E230 (CS/RDF/RB)

Genbull
  • MSF-H Revizer Genbull E230 (CS/RDF/RB)
  • MSF-H (Revizer/Genbull) Genbull BD145 (RDF/RF)


STAMINA



Duo
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) W145 (WD/EWD)
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) (TH170/230) (D/SD/TB)
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SR200 TB
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) BGrin
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 160 PD
  • Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SA165[Normal] EWD
  • MF(-M/-H) Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 230 MB

Genbull
  • Genbull Genbull (SR200/TH170) TB

Dragooon
  • {MSF{-H}} (Revizer/Genbull/Killerken/Girago) Dragooon SA165[Normal] EWD
  • {MSF-L} (Girago/Revizer/Killerken) Dragooon SA165[Zero-G Attack] EWD


BALANCE

  • (Girago/Genbull) Genbull E230 MB
  • Girago Girago E230 MB
  • MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145 (RSF/RDF)
  • MF-L Phantom Cygnus 85 MF
  • (MSF-L) Balro Balro BD145MF
  • MF-H Flash (Orion/Escolpio/Pisces/Beelzeb) W145 MF
  • {MF{-L}} Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) F230* (CF/GCF)
  • {MSF{-L}} (Genbull/Girago/Revizer/Killerken) Dragooon F230* (CF/GCF)
  • {MSF{-L}} Genbull Genbull F230* (CF/GCF)
  • MF-H Diablo (Kerbecs/Unicorno II) BD145 RF
  • MSF-(H/L) Girago Girago BD145 RF
  • MSF-H Wyvang Dragooon BD145 RF
  • MSF-H Wyvang Dragooon BD145 RDF
  • {MSF-H} (Revizer/Killerken) Dragooon SA165[Normal] RDF
  • Genbull Dragooon (T125/D125) GCF
  • (MSF-H) Genbull Genbull (TH120/SR200) CS

* F230 must be one of the orange TAKARA TOMY ones from ZGRBV3, not the brown or red ones.

These are mostly just changes to the Defense section (which are enormous changes, though, so be sure to look through them thoroughly). See this thread for more information on why the changes have been made. I personally really like it; I'm not too happy about CS remaining on E230 without RSF, but that's what the majority of the users wanted, so I'm leaving it up there.

I've also added RDF as an option for use with Wyvang BD145RSF; MSF-H Wyvang Wyvang BD145RDF is, hands down, my absolute favorite combination of all time. It does everything the RSF variant can do, and takes down several formidable Dragooon customs at the same time. See this thread for more information.

I'll have time to discuss this thoroughly during Christmas Break, but I thought I'd throw it out there now so you guys can take a look at it.
Dec. 04, 2014  10:09 PM
 
The list looks pretty much fine to me; I can't really see anything I disagree with.

One thing that may deserve to be considered or added in the near future - IIRC there were some Genbull LTSC/LTDC in the Winning Combos recently. I personally like those low Genbull setups, but has anyone else had positive experiences with that kind of combo? I will probably put up some tests on this Genbull combo I developed a while ago as an updated version of my Phantom LTDC.
Jan. 24, 2015  2:01 AM
 
Anyone else in favor of the list above? We haven't had an update in like 6 months.

I have very, very little time on my hands at the moment, and I haven't really been contributing toward the site much for a couple of months now, but I am absolutely determined to find time for this. If anybody has any thought, please feel free to post them so we can come to a consensus on this thing (especially thoughts on the Defense section - this update to the Defense section is probably one of the biggest projects I've ever done, and I would be thrilled if it ended up happening).
Jan. 25, 2015  12:13 AM
 
My last post still holds - I would be happy to see this list go up in its current form.
Feb. 03, 2015  4:33 PM
 
*Crickets*

...

Hello? Anybody there?

Come on guys! You're killing me here, haha. Let's get this thing rolling!
Feb. 03, 2015  7:25 PM
 
I think it's time we add the various successful GF setups
Feb. 03, 2015  8:17 PM
 
It's possible; I wouldn't be opposed to it (although I'd have to do some more testing myself before giving any sort of opinion). They seem successful enough in tournaments and formal testing.

What setups are we talking here? Honestly, BD145GF is probably the only setup I'd be willing to add; maybe D/T125, but that's a big maybe.

EDIT: Oh wait, didn't Meow! do some testing with Dragooon D125GF sometime in the past? Like back in 2013?
Feb. 04, 2015  2:20 AM
 
(Feb. 03, 2015  8:17 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: It's possible; I wouldn't be opposed to it (although I'd have to do some more testing myself before giving any sort of opinion). They seem successful enough in tournaments and formal testing.

What setups are we talking here? Honestly, BD145GF is probably the only setup I'd be willing to add; maybe D/T125, but that's a big maybe.

EDIT: Oh wait, didn't Meow! do some testing with Dragooon D125GF sometime in the past? Like back in 2013?

There was MSF-H Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF that Zander Soulwind and th!nk (I think) came up with a while back. It seemed pretty impressive from the tests and the one time I used it at Raleigh - Revival I won 3-2. I don't think it's seen much use in tournaments though.
Feb. 05, 2015  3:32 AM
 
Oh, that thing?

... No offense, but I completely hated that custom, haha. It never worked for me at all against anything.

My experience might be isolated, but it was pretty horrifically awful from what I remember. XD
Feb. 05, 2015  4:06 AM
 
(Feb. 05, 2015  3:32 AM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: Oh, that thing?

... No offense, but I completely hated that custom, haha. It never worked for me at all against anything.

My experience might be isolated, but it was pretty horrifically awful from what I remember. XD

I just know it was tough to get the launch down, I almost lost to Grand Ketos E230RS with it just because I self KOd twice. I bet @[Honey]'s got a good idea of how strong and what angle to launch it because it's so similar to Bahamdia Dragooon BD145GF, so maybe he could do tests?

EDIT: The @ goes outside the brackets I can't tag lol
May. 29, 2015  7:06 PM
 
Anyone for the update above?

It's been almost 6 months now; I say we go for it.
May. 30, 2015  6:03 PM
 
(May. 29, 2015  7:06 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: Anyone for the update above?

It's been almost 6 months now; I say we go for it.

Same thing I wrote like 4 months ago, I think we need to add some of the GF setups.
Specifially: BD145/LW105
Jul. 29, 2015  6:27 PM
 
OK, after doing a lot of testing with some GF combinations, I've come to some interesting conclusions:
  • Dragooon GF setups are extremely effective at spin-equalizing against mid-height opponents; about on level with Dragooon SA165 [Attack] EWD, if not ever so slightly better.
  • Killerken and Revizer work exceptionally well on both Dragooon BD145GF and Dragooon 105GF (Revizer actually seems slightly better than Genbull to me).
  • Girago works just as well as Genbull on Dragooon 105GF (it seems to have some trouble on BD145, for a reason I haven't been able to deduce - whatever the case, the aformentioned three are definitely more reliable choices in my experience).
  • Neither Dragooon 105GF nor Dragooon BD145GF can win consistently against TH1220/230 Stamina (Dragooon 105GF does decent against 230TB, but I wouldn't call it anywhere near consistent), E230MB Balance, or E230 Defense.

    Against HTSCs, Near the end of the match, when the Stamina custom sort of tilts over and begins circling the center of the stadium (a common pattern with HTSCs, especially against aggressive customs like Dragooon GF), GF settles to the center, breaking the stall pattern and causing an immense amount of friction with the stadium floor. As the Stamina custom revolves around the now immobile spin stealer, Dragooon GF's Stamina drains within seconds and the combinations comes to a complete stop before it can even make contact with the Stamina custom. This has been a very consistent pattern in my testing.

    Against E230 combinations, Dragooon is simply incapable of spin-stealing effectively.

After that, I'm personally on edge about adding these to the tier list, almost entirely because of the fourth point mentioned above. HTSCs are the primary targets spin stealers are designed to take down; without that ability, the only thing they're really good for is jostling with mid-height Duo Stamina, which is extremely risky.

I think, in focusing so intently on finding a way for spin-stealers to overcome their weaknesses (mid-height Duo Stamina and, to a certain degree, Attack), we've neglected to ensure that they still hold their original strengths.

With that in mind, on top of the fact that GF is still very difficult to control and extremely prone to self-KO, I personally would opt not to add them. But, if the majority thinks they should be listed, I would propose adding:

Quote:
  • (Revizer/Killerken) Dragooon BD145GF
  • (Revizer/Killerken/Girago) Dragooon (105/LW105/DF105/W105) GF

To the Balance section, along with the update posted above.

Sorry this is so late, and sorry I don't have any formal test results, but I haven't had time for much testing (or anything Beyblade) this summer, haha. Hopefully, with Beyblade Burst's imminent takeover of competitive play lurking around the corner, this update can be a sort of finalization of the Standard tier list. Thoughts?

@[Kei] @[Time] @[Wombat] @[Cake] @[Angry Face]
Jul. 30, 2015  1:02 AM
 
My stance on the issue is that, while those GF combos may be good at some things, that doesn't necessarily qualify them for the tier list. And like you said, GF is so difficult to control and prone to self-KOing that I don't feel comfortable adding it to the list even if I try to look at it from an objective perspective. It's too niche and unreliable.

And with the help of the handy new Winning Combos archive for Standard Format, I can tell you that since January 26th, 2013 when GF first appeared on the Winning Combos list for an official WBO event it has subsequently appeared just five more times to date. That doesn't mean everything when considering what should be on the list and what shouldn't, but it does tell me irrefutably that the community as a whole doesn't feel that it is 'competitive' for one reason or another.
Aug. 01, 2015  8:36 PM
 
@[Kei] @[[)ragon] I know for a fact I noted somewhere that for some reason it just doesn't work against e230, however it still defeats 90% of the meta in attack, defense, everything below 200 stamina, and pretty much the entire balance section. Also, since when has difficulty of use ever been a deterrent from putting something on the tier list?

P.S. Why was genbull taken off? Even if reviser is better for the spin-equalizing, having genbull as the bottom wheel adds roughly 45 seconds of spin time (from previous testing) which GF combos need in order to out spin left spin stamina.
Aug. 01, 2015  10:06 PM
 
Oh, I didn't remove Genbull; just forgot to add it (I thought there was one missing, but I couldn't remember which one it was). Fixed it.

I wouldn't say it beats 90% percent of the meta. E230 is really the bulk of the Defense meta (BD145 is still viable, but it's used more for Balance than anything else and I haven't seen it used in a pure Defense setup for over a year), and Dragooon Stamina customs, none of which Dragooon GF can outspin in my experience, are at least 30% of the Stamina meta. Attack is usually scarce in competition, but when it's used Dragooon Attack customs (which can OS Dragooon GF even if they can't KO it) show up just as often as right-spin Attackers for the most part anyway.

Stamina customs above 200 are kind of important for Spin-Equalizers to beat; they're their primary targets in most cases. And from Mitsu's testing, it doesn't look like Dragooon BD145GF is even that good at handling mid-height Duo customs (it lost to both Duo B : D and Duo SA165WD, and SA165EWD wasn't even tested).

In a nutshell, it seems to me that Dragooon GF is incapable of taking down a lot of customs, including almost all HTSCs/HTDCs, the very combinations Spin-Equalizers are built to beat. Even then, the only non-Attack customs it can really handle are mid-height Stamina customs, which it still has trouble with. I just don't think it does its job too well.
Aug. 02, 2015  3:34 AM
 
From Mitsu: On phone, so difficult to copy and paste:
Mitsu Wrote:So uh, as odd as this sounds, would you mind maybe quoting this and adding it to one of your posts? Sucks that I don't have access but I'd still really like to share my perspective on Dragooon GF. x)

Quote:Dragooon BD145GF is capable of beating multiple different things. It can KO and if not working out-spinning attack, defense utilizing anything but RDF, and mid-height right-spin stamina combos. It has issues BD145RDF customizations and sometimes loses to HTSC if go off-balance, stall-out enough and have no contact with Dragooon. I've also got very mixed results with it against Duo. And unless KO'ed (which is very unlikely) it really can't do good against Dragoon stamina.

Personally, others may not agree, but I'd like to see it up there. There are obvious cons like lack of use as a winning combination in tournaments and it KO'ing itself easily, but it definitely works as a balance customization. It defends, out-spins and knock-outs.

Thanks! Would really appreciate if you can add it in somewhere.

Also, I don't think you've used GF enough then. Once you get good with it, you should be able to launch well above half power which should be more than enough to OS dragooon stamina customs.
Sep. 06, 2017  9:22 PM
 
I am not a pro in Beyblade . But in stamina list i think ravizer dragoon bd should be added . I would request to test this combo out as I can't because I don't have a bb10 stadium .
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