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Beywiki merges with Beyblade Wiki!

Oct. 07, 2015  5:48 PM
 
(Oct. 07, 2015  4:57 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: But ultimately, the Committee is tasked with making the hard decisions about the WBO’s future. Whether or not you agree with every decision we’ve ever made, I hope it’s clear that we’re willing to correct course if we’re wrong, and that we approach every decision with the best of intentions and only after a wealth of deliberation and analysis.

It's not that I don't trust your decision to do this; it's that it was such a sudden decision to just drop the format I've grown to like as opposed to a format I've never cared for.

As for what Nocto said, I think it came off as if you were saying "we're always right", in a way.
But note I do respect your decision; it makes perfect sense considering Beyblade Wiki was separate from a larger community like the WBO.
Oct. 07, 2015  6:48 PM
 
(Oct. 07, 2015  5:48 PM)Neo Wrote: As for what Nocto said, I think it came off as if you were saying "we're always right", in a way.

Apologies if it came across this way; it's a bit more nuanced than that.

We make every decision we make in the good faith that it's what's best for the Beyblade community and the WBO as a whole. We debate the merits of ideas within the Committee constantly, and only commit to something once we've reached a consensus.

Ultimately, nobody can be "right" (as in correct) 100% of the time, although I'd say "rightness" is really a spectrum, not a black-and-white dichotomy. We can't measure the effectiveness of what we do before we're even given the chance to see the results. Otherwise, it simply boils down what individuals would prefer over what actually works.

And the Committee, while taking the feedback of the community into account, is in the best position to make those decisions. It's weathered numerous waves in the Beyblade community, yet is still comprised largely of people who've been active in the Beyblade community since it came into existence.

The fact that the WBO even exists, and continues to exist, is pretty crazy considering all the things that could've derailed it. But here we are, in 2015, with the wind at our backs and the blessing of many great opportunities. And we'll take those opportunities!
Oct. 07, 2015  7:33 PM
 
Yes, in case anybody did not know, I have become a huge devil's advocate, so much that I do not even seem to have any personal opinions anymore hah. Therefore, I really think about everybody, how everyone might react to a change, how to deal with it, etc. I would even say that I must have ticked off my fellow Committee Members more than once by disagreeing all the time hah. The final decisions we make are quite a consensus and we strongly believe they will be beneficial for the community in the long term. We are not x members with all the same opinion, and we are definitely part of the community as well and 'feel' it.
Oct. 07, 2015  8:26 PM
 
(Oct. 07, 2015  7:33 PM)Kai-V Wrote: I would even say that I must have ticked off my fellow Committee Members more than once by disagreeing all the time hah.

I think we all feel this way Tongue_out

EDIT: Oh, yeah. I disabled my adblocker on Wikia and the only ads I see on Beyblade Wiki are at the bottom of the page. They're just ads for other wikis in Wikia's network. Seems fine to me.
Oct. 08, 2015  5:30 PM
 
(Oct. 04, 2015  6:01 PM)~Mana~ Wrote:
(Oct. 04, 2015  1:19 PM)FIREFIRE Wrote: Do trivia will stay there or. Will be removed

Trivia will remain on articles as it always has. We will definitely be cracking down on what is written in those sections though, as many people tend to add pointless and non-trivial details.

(Oct. 04, 2015  2:59 PM)Jetsnake1 Wrote: Will it still have those stats thingies still be there?I know they aren't important compared to the actual skill of the blader,but I just like to add up the stats for certain Beyblades and combos.Anyway nice move,I hope it works OK.

As part of our new Part-Specific Articles, the infobox on each article contains fields where we can enter the stats written on the box of a product for each part. We'll be gradually filling these in as we create the articles and gather the information.

(Oct. 04, 2015  3:45 PM)RagerBlade Wrote: Are the forums on BeyWiki going to be removed since we've combined?

Beywiki doesn't feature any forums. If you're referring to the "Beywiki Project" board on the WBO, that will be staying and continue as it previously did. If you're referring to the Forums on Beyblade Wiki, those have been completely removed and will no longer be supported.

Will you add more trivia?
Beywiki will be closed and when all information will be moved to beyblade wiki from beywiki
Oct. 08, 2015  9:30 PM
 
(Oct. 08, 2015  5:30 PM)FIREFIRE Wrote:
(Oct. 04, 2015  6:01 PM)~Mana~ Wrote:
(Oct. 04, 2015  1:19 PM)FIREFIRE Wrote: Do trivia will stay there or. Will be removed

Trivia will remain on articles as it always has. We will definitely be cracking down on what is written in those sections though, as many people tend to add pointless and non-trivial details.

(Oct. 04, 2015  2:59 PM)Jetsnake1 Wrote: Will it still have those stats thingies still be there?I know they aren't important compared to the actual skill of the blader,but I just like to add up the stats for certain Beyblades and combos.Anyway nice move,I hope it works OK.

As part of our new Part-Specific Articles, the infobox on each article contains fields where we can enter the stats written on the box of a product for each part. We'll be gradually filling these in as we create the articles and gather the information.

(Oct. 04, 2015  3:45 PM)RagerBlade Wrote: Are the forums on BeyWiki going to be removed since we've combined?

Beywiki doesn't feature any forums. If you're referring to the "Beywiki Project" board on the WBO, that will be staying and continue as it previously did. If you're referring to the Forums on Beyblade Wiki, those have been completely removed and will no longer be supported.

Will you add more trivia?
Beywiki will be closed and when all information will be moved to beyblade wiki from beywiki
Right now, I can sort of guarantee that the precious trivia will be saved when all of the transferring/fusing happens.
Oct. 08, 2015  11:27 PM
 
This is awesome and sounds very interesting. One question, wil there now be articles based off of anime characters because Beyblade wiki had those?
Oct. 09, 2015  12:01 AM
 
(Oct. 08, 2015  11:27 PM)UGottaCetus Wrote: This is awesome and sounds very interesting. One question, wil there now be articles based off of anime characters because Beyblade wiki had those?

We'll definitely be keeping everything like that.
Oct. 09, 2015  3:10 AM
 
(Oct. 09, 2015  12:01 AM)Bey Brad Wrote:
(Oct. 08, 2015  11:27 PM)UGottaCetus Wrote: This is awesome and sounds very interesting. One question, wil there now be articles based off of anime characters because Beyblade wiki had those?

We'll definitely be keeping everything like that.

I honestly prefer the Beyblade Wiki articles over the Beywiki ones for the anime characters. They have a lot more information in comparison to most of the Beywiki counterparts
Oct. 09, 2015  3:12 AM
 
That is because we never meant to cover the anime at all.
Oct. 09, 2015  9:23 AM
 
hmm, interesting.

i know the Bey wikia has a number of information on the anime and manga (specifically the mfb manga) so if the merge was a go, does that mean the anime and manga sections will remain untouched as well as possibly ignored or will it be recognized as a valuable piece of beyblade information?
Oct. 09, 2015  12:34 PM
 
The anime and manga sections will remain as they have done. They aren't disappearing, but they also aren't included in any of our plans as Beywiki's focus was the toyline.
Oct. 09, 2015  2:14 PM
 
I mean, I have some really good content notably from Beyblade Spirit that I plan to incorporate to some anime-related articles on Beyblade Wiki, but it is really just a matter of adding, not changing anything. Those articles are good, we have no reason to change them hah. And they will definitely continue to exist, since that information has to be somewhere on the net for sure.
Oct. 09, 2015  3:21 PM
 
Maybe most of you don't know this, but Kai-V was way more prominent in the Beyblade anime community than the hobby one before joining the WBO Committee. I knew her website ten years ago!

The anime is near and dear to all of us to varying degrees, and we know that it's hugely important to others — to many, more important than the toyline. And for many, the anime is a gateway to the toyline. So it's in our best interest to make sure that content stays present and up-to-date. Smile

Expect to see articles about Beyblade Burst's anime appear as it becomes possible!
Oct. 09, 2015  3:38 PM
 
OK, I think I had not realised that people had no idea anymore that I had been in the community for over ten years hah. Let me write something in that biography section ... But yes, I basically only caught on to the hobby side of Beyblade with Metal Fight Beyblade, because I had been so interested in only the Bakuten Shoot anime before that I found that it was too late for me to start learning about Plastics and HMS to a certain degree. With Metal Fight Beyblade, I was there from the start, so I followed both the toys and then the manga and anime.
Oct. 10, 2015  10:14 PM
 
(Oct. 07, 2015  4:57 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: [snip]

I think we're getting sidetracked. You make it sound like I am arguing against the move or that I am striving for a wiki catering to a "cultural Beyblade elite." I am not: my comment had two purposes (three, if you count my comment to you and the committee).

1. To have the differences in the natures/philosophies of both wikis acknowledged and resolved in a clear fashion (i.e. the first post vs. a reply in the most silent work thread). It's important if we want everyone to know how things will be moving forward and to complete the transition on solid ground.

2. To argue for keeping the Japanese terminology, because that's the one around which the forums, the game, the tournaments grow. Essentially, to borrow one of your words, because the Japanese terminology is the mainstream of the WBO. On that point, the Japanese terminology is no more impenetrable than the English one: it's all a question of workload, gains and losses and number of terminologies to manage.

(3.) Neo has the right of it. I simply did not accept your apparent dismissal of criticism on account of the committee allegedly knowing best, when it has made questionable decisions in the past (hence my examples).

And that's what I wanted to settle, because it's better to have everyone clear about what the wiki is going to look like and whether or not they're OK with that: midway through the transition won't be the time to argue having a drastic change of course, especially since it affects prominently the body of the text.
Oct. 11, 2015  12:57 AM
 
Quote:To argue for keeping the Japanese terminology, because that's the one around which the forums, the game, the tournaments grow. Essentially, to borrow one of your words, because the Japanese terminology is the mainstream of the WBO. On that point, the Japanese terminology is no more impenetrable than the English one: it's all a question of workload, gains and losses and number of terminologies to manage.

I don’t understand the assumption that prioritizing one display of information on the wiki means betraying the other.

The forums, games, and tournaments here do revolve around the Japanese terminology, and the Japanese terminology will continue to dominate among hardcore players because that’s where the cutting-edge parts come from. That’s certain.

However, you have to understand that one of the goals the WBO has for Beyblade Wiki is to encourage people who never delved into competitive play before to give it a shot.

If you think the terminology and discussions here aren’t impenetrable to the casual Blader, I don’t know what to tell you. The confusion is apparent here on this site alone. You can blame people for not being willing to put in the work, but I don’t think anyone could argue that we’ve done everything we could to help onboard new players into the community.

You will be able to locate information using English or Japanese names. But English names should be prioritized because that’s what what people are searching for. When those people land on the page, we’ll have the opportunity to educate them on the (way cooler, obviously) Japanese names.

New players, who don't know the Japanese names, will learn them. Hardcore players, who already do know them, will still be able to find and understand the information they are looking for. This is a pragmatic compromise the has the best results for everyone, and I trust the hardcore players will find the strength to navigate this brave new world.

The SEO damage of changing major page titles with no regard for what people are actually looking for would be catastrophic. We're not willing to throw away potentially thousands of visitors just for the sake of using Japanese names as page titles.

This isn't a shift away from hardcore perspectives as much as it is an expansion of the perspectives that we make space for. It's not like I don't prefer the Japanese terms, either. But I also want to grow the Beyblade community and make sure that as many people who want to find others to play with, can.

Beyblade Wiki is going to be a cornerstone of the WBO going forward, and is going to allow us to share the depth of the Beyblade hobby with many Bladers who have only ever scratched the surface.

Quote:Neo has the right of it. I simply did not accept your apparent dismissal of criticism on account of the committee allegedly knowing best, when it has made questionable decisions in the past (hence my examples).

Well, our decisions will always be questionable to someone. And those decisions you regard as questionable have been lauded by others. That's why we have to incorporate feedback from everybody, while also making the decisions that we know are best for us as an organization (like keeping English names as headlines on Beyblade Wiki, with Japanese information clearly visible).

Ultimately though, I do hope that people trust in our ability to do the right thing. That doesn't mean never tells us what you think, or never criticize or give feedback. It means you should absolutely do those things, and trust that we take it seriously and will incorporate it if it makes sense for us. And trust that we have the intelligence and history required to make those decisions.

We just announced the Beyblade Wiki merge and are still feeling things out and planning what we want to do next, so we'd appreciate patience from everyone when it comes to establishing hard-and-fast rules. We had to announce it to the community before we could get that kind of feedback. So thanks for bringing up the language issue, even if abrasively. I hope our position and reasoning has been clarified.

Thankfully, a Wiki is the best kind of site to learn as you grow with. And Mana's the best kind of guy to help us make sense of it all. Smile
Oct. 11, 2015  2:17 AM
 
(Oct. 11, 2015  12:57 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: The SEO damage of changing major page titles with no regard for what people are actually looking for would be catastrophic. We're not willing to throw away potentially thousands of visitors just for the sake of using Japanese names as page titles.

Admittedly, I had been wondering about the reverse process : what will happen with a Valkyrie Wing Accel article if Hasbro renames it ? And in fact, what happened in the past with all the renames ? But hey, nothing catastrophic has happened and Beyblade Wiki is still great, so there must just be renames and everything is chill hah. I trust that after all these years, the right things were done on the Beyblade Wiki.
Oct. 11, 2015  2:28 AM
 
Thankfully, Beyblade names don't get changed as often as say, Pokémon do. In a situation like a Burst Beyblade being renamed, we would rename the article to the English name, since that's the term that new fans will be searching for. The Japanese term would ideally redirect to the main article — as should be the case for any Japanese names.
Oct. 11, 2015  2:45 AM
 
Well, how do I explain this to the best of my knowledge...

Let's say we have Shinobi Saramanda SW145SD. We spend a year using that title and gaining SEO on it, eventually becoming the top page in the search engine.

Hasbro then renames the Bey to Ninja Salamander SW145SD, and we rename the article but retain redirects and keep the original name on the article for reference; we retain that SEO for that term as we're technically still using it. But then we've got to gather SEO for the new name, which happens quite quickly with kids searching for the Beyblade. So we gain that.

Now we have SEO for both terms, despite having swapped. And, in some cases, search engines like Google detect this change and the western name may also search for the Japanese term, but I've only seen that happen a handful of times.

SEO is just one of those mysterious things in the end; change can work out well for you sometimes, and a disaster at others. We've managed to retain ours quite nicely doing what we've been doing, despite renames.
Oct. 11, 2015  3:19 AM
 
(Oct. 11, 2015  2:17 AM)Kai-V Wrote:
(Oct. 11, 2015  12:57 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: The SEO damage of changing major page titles with no regard for what people are actually looking for would be catastrophic. We're not willing to throw away potentially thousands of visitors just for the sake of using Japanese names as page titles.

Admittedly, I had been wondering about the reverse process : what will happen with a Valkyrie Wing Accel article if Hasbro renames it ? And in fact, what happened in the past with all the renames ? But hey, nothing catastrophic has happened and Beyblade Wiki is still great, so there must just be renames and everything is chill hah. I trust that after all these years, the right things were done on the Beyblade Wiki.

(Oct. 11, 2015  2:28 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: Thankfully, Beyblade names don't get changed as often as say, Pokémon do. In a situation like a Burst Beyblade being renamed, we would rename the article to the English name, since that's the term that new fans will be searching for. The Japanese term would ideally redirect to the main article — as should be the case for any Japanese names.

The issue, in my mind, is not so much with changing the page title as it is with keeping everything else coherent with that new title. If we rename the Basalt article to Twisted, then we want to be consistent and have Basalt referenced as Twisted across the wiki (with exceptions to instances where the context clearly asks for the Japanese name); that's the serious thing to do. With high profile parts, the amount of articles to comb through becomes greater and may not necessarily/entirely be reduced with transclusion. To keep Basalt as an example, it is referenced in nearly 40 articles (excluding redirects and Italian articles): Do you trust the manpower will be there to make that sort revisions when it was not there before?

Again, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just trying to make sure we're not parading on quicksand.
Oct. 11, 2015  4:22 AM
 
If that's your concern, I do have a Wikibot that can scan for terms and replace them with the correct ones. Bringing everything in line to follow the same terminology definitely isn't a problem.
Oct. 11, 2015  5:50 AM
 
We could have even done the same on Beywiki with just slightly more difficulty than that. Something as simple as "find and replace" is a pretty small concern thankfully Grin
Oct. 21, 2015  4:10 AM
 
So I decided that id stop being lazy and start uploading images from Burst all the way to Bakuten Shoot, Expect some edits as well!

(You can find me under ClassikWBO Wink)
Oct. 21, 2015  4:23 AM
 
(Oct. 21, 2015  4:10 AM)Amaterios Wrote: So I decided that id stop being lazy and start uploading images from Burst all the way to Bakuten Shoot, Expect some edits as well!

(You can find me under ClassikWBO Wink)

Oh damn, that would be super nice. We were actually looking into the possibility of mass-transfering all the pictures from Beywiki, but if somehow you are having fun and that uploading all of the images is not a heavy task for you, that would definitely be awesome hah. Let me know what the process is like, how far you are, etc., and of course thank you for giving a helping hand !
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