Beywiki merges with Beyblade Wiki!


Kai-V
And I think all three of ~Mana~, Bey Brad and I have mentioned several times that we are working on improving the layout now that two of you have shared that you had problems with it, no ?
oh snap! guess that means I'll be playing a bigger role on that wikia then besides being the guy who edits details about some characters from the anime.

I like this merging already!
MissingNo.
It's not the layout of Beyblade Wiki that causes the problem. It's Wikia itself. Yes, of course, there's a huge size difference between our front page design and Beyblade Wiki's, but it's not only the huge amount of useless images that causes the slowness, it's essentially the ads and everything that use Flash Player nor Javascript. Like ~Mana~ mentionned above, you can disable SOME of the ads, but not all of them.
Kai-V
We are actively looking for reasons as to why this may be happening to you two and not to everybody else and how we can fix it. Either the problem is your computer entirely if it is too old, or something can be done to solve the issue : there cannot just be sites out there that you are unable to load when they load for everyone else.
1234beyblade
The only reason a site would do that to you is if you either have bad internet, a bad computer, or just a plane old virus (which is most likely tbh). Would you mind telling me your Upload, Download, Ping, and computer specs? If i know what the specs are then i can help you determine if it's a virus of it's your actual system that's causing this very weird problem.
Cookie Bouquets
(Oct. 05, 2015  1:32 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: The only reason a site would do that to you is if you either have bad internet, a bad computer, or just a plane old virus (which is most likely tbh). Would you mind telling me your Upload, Download, Ping, and computer specs? If i know what the specs are then i can help you determine if it's a virus of it's your actual system that's causing this very weird problem.

This is what I assumed too, I don't think it's the website, it's probably either their up/down, or their specs are REALLY outdated.
RagerBlade
Quote:
(Oct. 04, 2015  3:45 PM)RagerBlade Wrote: Are the forums on BeyWiki going to be removed since we've combined?

Beywiki doesn't feature any forums. If you're referring to the "Beywiki Project" board on the WBO, that will be staying and continue as it previously did. If you're referring to the Forums on Beyblade Wiki, those have been completely removed and will no longer be supported.
Yeah sorry I meant on the Beyblade Wiki.
MissingNo.
(Oct. 05, 2015  1:32 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: The only reason a site would do that to you is if you either have bad internet, a bad computer, or just a plane old virus (which is most likely tbh). Would you mind telling me your Upload, Download, Ping, and computer specs? If i know what the specs are then i can help you determine if it's a virus of it's your actual system that's causing this very weird problem.

Well, I'm using my parents' computer, since mine is unusable.

2.00 Gb of RAM, Processor is 2.66 GHz I believe, and for the Internet connection, it's 100 mbps.

It might be old, but it's definitely not the computer's fault. I've never experienced any consistent slowness (nor crashes in some cases) on any other website than Wikia. So, if people's computer can't handle Wikia massive design, the incredible amount of ads, and the overall consistent slowness, it's their computer's fault, and the solution is to buy a new one ? Interesting.

By the way, I can't tell since I don't own a mobile device, but did anybody tried to access Wikia and ever experienced any kind of slowness ?
*Ginga*
It certainly isn't internet connection for you then, because my wifi is a lot slower than yours haha.
1234beyblade
(Oct. 05, 2015  2:03 AM)MissingNo. Wrote:
(Oct. 05, 2015  1:32 AM)1234beyblade Wrote: The only reason a site would do that to you is if you either have bad internet, a bad computer, or just a plane old virus (which is most likely tbh). Would you mind telling me your Upload, Download, Ping, and computer specs? If i know what the specs are then i can help you determine if it's a virus of it's your actual system that's causing this very weird problem.

Well, I'm using my parents' computer, since mine is unusable.

2.00 Gb of RAM, Processor is 2.66 GHz I believe, and for the Internet connection, it's 100 mbps.

It might be old, but it's definitely not the computer's fault. I've never experienced any consistent slowness (nor crashes in some cases) on any other website than Wikia. So, if people's computer can't handle Wikia massive design, the incredible amount of ads, and the overall consistent slowness, it's their computer's fault, and the solution is to buy a new one ? Interesting.

By the way, I can't tell since I don't own a mobile device, but did anybody tried to access Wikia and ever experienced any kind of slowness ?

Is your processor a i3, i5, i7, (dual core, quad core, six core, or eight core (who am i kidding it's probably duo or quad lol)), or AMD, also could you actually show me results from http://www.speedtest.net for the upload, download, and ping of your internet?

I tested going on the site on my phone and it literally loaded in 3 seconds, all I can tell you is you probably need to delete system 32 (lol jk DON'T do that XD), but anyway you should probably invest in a new computer or some sort of clean up of your computer to remove viruses because this situation is just obscure.
*Ginga*
I did that test and I got 16 ish download and 13 ish upload (mbps) so it certainly isn't an internet problem ...

I'm running on a mid 2009 MacBook and I've got an Intel Core 2 Duo and 2 GB of RAM. You could say I've got bad specs, and I'm running the Wikia rather well.
Bey Brad
(Oct. 05, 2015  12:32 AM)Neo Wrote: I don't really remember you guys taking any sort of vote or poll to see if the community would have liked this.

I feel really bad that some of you feel upset with this decision. If you have legitimate grievances, rest assured that we will take them seriously and work to address them. I hope that everyone who's given feedback to the WBO Committee over the past few months has felt it was taken seriously — if you haven't, send me a message. I really want to make sure everyone feels their voice can be heard.

At the same time, the WBO Committee — which is largely composed of people who have been a part of this community since it's creation, and of course, founded by myself — is tasked with the long-term stewardship and success of the organization. We are thinking about the site five years into the future with this decision. Every single Committee member expressed vocal support for this decision.

We all know that this is the right thing to do.

So while we do take feedback from the community into account when doing anything, we also have to be willing to make decisions that will affect this community long after many of its current users will have moved on from it, or will affect it in ways that are invisible to our users but extremely beneficial to the organization.

(And when I say things are "beneficial to the organization," I mean they will ensure we can continue to complete our most important goal: hosting Beyblade tournaments in active communities of local Bladers. Everything ultimately serves that purpose.)

That does not mean that there are no issues, but I think saying that this is the wrong move because, on Day 1, things aren't the way they should be, is short-sighted and unfair to us. We are just getting started with this, so give us some time. And if you want to be a part of the solution, we could definitely use your help.
Cookie Bouquets
(Oct. 05, 2015  3:27 AM)Bey Brad Wrote:
(Oct. 05, 2015  12:32 AM)Neo Wrote: I don't really remember you guys taking any sort of vote or poll to see if the community would have liked this.

I feel really bad that some of you feel upset with this decision. If you have legitimate grievances, rest assured that we will take them seriously and work to address them. I hope that everyone who's given feedback to the WBO Committee over the past few months has felt it was taken seriously — if you haven't, send me a message. I really want to make sure everyone feels their voice can be heard.

At the same time, the WBO Committee — which is largely composed of people who have been a part of this community since it's creation, and of course, founded by myself — is tasked with the long-term stewardship and success of the organization. We are thinking about the site five years into the future with this decision. Every single Committee member expressed vocal support for this decision.

We all know that this is the right thing to do.

So while we do take feedback from the community into account when doing anything, we also have to be willing to make decisions that will affect this community long after many of its current users will have moved on from it, or will affect it in ways that are invisible to our users but extremely beneficial to the organization.

(And when I say things are "beneficial to the organization," I mean they will ensure we can continue to complete our most important goal: hosting Beyblade tournaments in active communities of local Bladers. Everything ultimately serves that purpose.)

That does not mean that there are no issues, but I think saying that this is the wrong move because, on Day 1, things aren't the way they should be, is short-sighted and unfair to us. We are just getting started with this, so give us some time. And if you want to be a part of the solution, we could definitely use your help.

Yeah, making the process a lot easier and quicker is surely a lot better than sulking over the fact that change is happening. Change is something that has to be done, with the addition of burst, I think merging was a step in the right direction, because beywiki was old and busted after like, 10 years of service or something along those lines.

Tl;Dr, if you want a good wiki with valuable and well written information, then you can always pitch in to make the experience better for everyone.
~Mana~
I also want to weigh in here; it was never any of our intentions to upset anyone, nor make you believe that this was the wrong choice. I wouldn't have proposed the merger to the Committee if I wasn't confident that it was in the best interests of each of our communities, and also potential readers. The Committee jumped at the opportunity because of the benefits that come from this decision.

We're not just talking SEO. We're talking long-term stability, extra support for features that Beywiki's MediaWiki installation couldn't support at all, mobile sites, among other things. We honestly believe that this an extremely promising development that will unify the fanbase, collate all information in one location and attract Bladers to join both the Wiki and the WBO. We're thinking long-term benefits, not "this is okay for now, but it's going to be a disaster in the future".

I personally acknowledge that Beyblade Wiki has it's fair share of issues. I accept most of the blame for that; I neglected the Wiki for two years and left it in the hands of the rest of the administration team, who couldn't handle things on their own. This created a massively negative opinion of the Wiki within the community. However, that is the past, and we're doing everything we can to move past this and take advantage of the massive opportunity before us. With Beywiki's information being merged into Beyblade Wiki, the standard will definitely improve and, going forward, the standard of editing can be maintained. We've put plenty of measures in place to assist editors on the Wiki, from preset page layouts to simplistic editing with the VisualEditor, and we want to continue to support this going forward.

Of course, we cannot do this alone. We can try, but it'll definitely be difficult. We know that people want to see Beywiki flourish, and this is the opportunity that the Committee has been waiting for. Rather than complaining about things within the first twenty-four hours, why not see what becomes of this dream of ours? Why not join in with the collaborations with us? If you really care about Beywiki that much, which you definitely seem to based on how strongly you've reacted to this decision, we would love for you to join us in fulfilling this dream and creating one big community. It would significantly speed up the entire cleanup process and you would be able to become part of the solution.

For those of you with technical errors preventing you from enjoying this announcement, we'll most definitely investigate every inquiry we receive and help you as best as we can. We have the Wikia Technical Team on call to help us once we've researched a bit more into whether the issues are client-side or server-side, and we'll try to offer solutions depending on our findings. We just ask that you co-operate with us while we get this done. We don't want your experience to be hindered by technical faults, we want you to enjoy this as much as we are.

I can't force you to agree with the decision we've made. Nobody can do that, but we honestly do ask that you trust that we wouldn't do anything that we think would ruin the experience you had before, and believe in our long-term plan.
(Oct. 04, 2015  7:57 PM)Bey Brad Wrote:
(Oct. 04, 2015  6:02 PM)Caos. Wrote: Meh, quite disappointed. I would have preferred if Beyblade Wikia moved on our platform.

Our platform is literally broken — just look at it. MediaWiki is a monstrous piece of software for a team like ours to manage.

Inevitably, we needed to pretty much restart everything somehow. This opportunity just kind of fell into our lap at the perfect moment.

As for the stats ... I'm all for complete information, but I wonder if those statistics are more misleading than anything else.
Ah ok, thanks for the exhaustive reply Brad. Anyway, if we want to do the things in the right manner...why don't we point our dns record (wiki.worldbeyblade.org) to the new wikia platform? If you need help for renewing the template: count me in.
Wikia doesn't support custom domains anymore due to complications in their databases apparently. A url redirect would work, though that'd be best to leave until we've finished merging everything else we'll lack Wiki, haha.
http://www.beywiki.com still sends you to the original site fyi.
Bey Brad
We will change that when we feel the time is right.
MissingNo.
Well, at least Internet Archive is still there.
I'm actually behind this 100%. With Beyblade Wiki typically being the go-to for non-WBO members, this is a great way to improve the accuracy of Beyblade Wiki's articles and get the World Beyblade Organization's name out there in the process. Props to ~Mana~ for coming up with the idea! I've been swamped with schoolwork lately, but will hopefully be able to help out with the transition next weekend, once I'm on fall break.
Nocto
I, too, have some reserves about the Wikia platform, but I do think ~Mana~ has done some stellar job shaping it back up, and overall, I am on board.

However, I do feel there is a major point which should have been brought up in the main post (and resolved), but was not. I am talking about the diverging philosophies between the wikia, historically and primarily centered around the anime and the English/American setting and terminology, and the WBO, centered around the actual toys and the Japanese terminology, while generally being repressive of both wikia values in its general forum discussions.

I'm thinking primarily of this recent exchange between Ginga and Mana:
(Oct. 03, 2015  10:43 PM)~Mana~ Wrote:
(Oct. 03, 2015  10:28 PM)*Ginga* Wrote: Not sure if completely related, but will we be sticking with the dub names for everything? I guess I've gotten so used to things like "Metal Wheel" that "Fusion Wheel" seems very foreign to me, ironically.

An understandable point. We generally stick to dub names due to the fact that they are searched more in search engines than the original terms, generally because of the young kids that watch the show or purchase the toys. We're essentially taking advantage of that information and using the format that is most popular, hence why we stick to dub terminology on everything.

I know it'll definitely be confusing and feel wrong (trust me, I feel it sometimes as well), but it's done for the benefit of the Wiki and the readers, as opposed to the few people who are used to other terms.

While I understand ~Mana~'s point, it also goes against how the game evolves on these forums--with the Japanese toys. This means that at some point, favoring the dub terminology will create a different standard between how we write on the wiki and how we interact on the forum--or it will just confuse everyone. Of course, there are possible solutions, like making single (i.e. not part-by-part) articles for anime Beyblades (using the American names) linking to articles on the toys using the Japanese names, but not addressing them forthright seems to indicate a certain lack of forethought.

In that light, Brad, I also think you can drop the moral high ground with your notion that people should just "trust in [your] capacity to do the right thing." This situation alone proves you're not totally on top of things, and the committee decision-making record is not exactly spotless, especially in its capacity as a sanctioning body--Basalt and F230 come to mind. That last note can be taken as an insult or as fair criticism, but that is not up to me.
A fair point. I'll note that, while we do use dub terminology, articles also have redirects from their Japanese names to appeal to both sides. Articles also include the original Japanese names of whatever they're based on, so episodes, chapters, characters, Beyblades, parts etc all have these fields.

The solution you mentioned just brings up an inconsistency, so I wouldn't really want to walk down that path. We'd want to maintain a consistency throughout all our articles and, as it stands, there are more incentives and reasons to stick to western terms than there are for Japanese ones.

We are currently investigating ways of perhaps giving users an option to aesthetically swap over to the other terminology but, at this current time, we would prefer to focus our work on the transition and think about addressing that afterwards.
Bey Brad
(Oct. 07, 2015  12:02 AM)Nocto Wrote: In that light, Brad, I also think you can drop the moral high ground with your notion that people should just "trust in [your] capacity to do the right thing." This situation alone proves you're not totally on top of things, and the committee decision-making record is not exactly spotless, especially in its capacity as a sanctioning body--Basalt and F230 come to mind. That last note can be taken as an insult or as fair criticism, but that is not up to me.

I can't speak to those decisions since I have nothing to do with them nor know anything about them.

I will say that I don't have the patience for mean-spirited commentary like this anymore.

(Oct. 07, 2015  12:25 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: A fair point. I'll note that, while we do use dub terminology, articles also have redirects from their Japanese names to appeal to both sides. Articles also include the original Japanese names of whatever they're based on, so episodes, chapters, characters, Beyblades, parts etc all have these fields.

The solution you mentioned just brings up an inconsistency, so I wouldn't really want to walk down that path. We'd want to maintain a consistency throughout all our articles and, as it stands, there are more incentives and reasons to stick to western terms than there are for Japanese ones.

We are currently investigating ways of perhaps giving users an option to aesthetically swap over to the other terminology but, at this current time, we would prefer to focus our work on the transition and think about addressing that afterwards.

Yes, pretty much. A community is a community and however the terminology grows within it should be organic, but the Wiki is an informational resource and by definition should use the official terms that people are likely to actually search for.

Of course, the metagame is on the cutting-edge of Japanese releases, and as always Japanese names will be used until licensed names are announced. And we should ensure that Japanese names are displayed prominently on each page.

Ultimately I probably would've argued the reverse of this seven years ago, but pragmatism is an inarguably better approach than elitism.
Nocto
(Oct. 07, 2015  1:59 AM)Bey Brad Wrote:
(Oct. 07, 2015  12:02 AM)Nocto Wrote: In that light, Brad, I also think you can drop the moral high ground with your notion that people should just "trust in [your] capacity to do the right thing." This situation alone proves you're not totally on top of things, and the committee decision-making record is not exactly spotless, especially in its capacity as a sanctioning body--Basalt and F230 come to mind. That last note can be taken as an insult or as fair criticism, but that is not up to me.

I can't speak to those decisions since I have nothing to do with them nor know anything about them.

I will say that I don't have the patience for mean-spirited commentary like this anymore.

Well, I guess it's my fault for saying you could feel insulted. It's a little cherry-picked, though.


(Oct. 07, 2015  1:59 AM)Bey Brad Wrote:
(Oct. 07, 2015  12:25 AM)~Mana~ Wrote: A fair point. I'll note that, while we do use dub terminology, articles also have redirects from their Japanese names to appeal to both sides. Articles also include the original Japanese names of whatever they're based on, so episodes, chapters, characters, Beyblades, parts etc all have these fields.

The solution you mentioned just brings up an inconsistency, so I wouldn't really want to walk down that path. We'd want to maintain a consistency throughout all our articles and, as it stands, there are more incentives and reasons to stick to western terms than there are for Japanese ones.

We are currently investigating ways of perhaps giving users an option to aesthetically swap over to the other terminology but, at this current time, we would prefer to focus our work on the transition and think about addressing that afterwards.

Yes, pretty much. A community is a community and however the terminology grows within it should be organic. . .

Of course, the metagame is on the cutting-edge of Japanese releases, and as always Japanese names will be used until licensed names are announced.

Ultimately I probably would've argued the reverse of this seven years ago, but pragmatism is an inarguably better approach than elitism.

Except it's not that simple. As you said yourself, terminology used in a community grows organically, and, in that light, you have to consider that Burst terminology has nearly two years to fall into usage before the American terminology is even revealed, and once it's in the usage, people don't just stop using it after a day. That said, merging the wikis means, as I said before, dealing with two different communities: the English terminology is in line with what Wikia goers are familiar with, and will increase the WBO's visibility through SEO; the Japanese terminology is coherent with what people here discuss on a regular basis and already in most of our articles. But which do you prioritized? How do you accommodate the other one? How do you make them coexist or merge together? That seems to me like questions that should be tackled beforehand.

You also have to consider that you'll have to employ a limited workforce to take the Hasbro terminology across all series and comb through every articles to make the adequate changes, the pragmatism of which is debatable. You have to take into account workload vs. reader loss/gain depending on which terminology is used, while keeping in mind that the number of people might drop when the merge loses its luster of novelty.

I'm not saying there is one good choice and one bad choice, but that a choice has to be made, and preferably explicitly detailed in the first post. I'm just debating for towards a certain side.

(Oct. 07, 2015  1:59 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: . . .but the Wiki is an informational resource and by definition should use the official terms that people are likely to actually search for.

Although, we could argue whether an encyclopedia--an informational resource, as you aptly called it--should be superseded in its informational function by its value as a marketing tool. Ultimately, that debate would decide which deserves to be in the body and which deserves to be a footnote.

~Mana~ I don't think it would really bring any inconsistency. My idea is essentially in the vein of a disambiguation page: Part-by-part and performances under the Japanese name, and Anime/manga and trivia under the American name. I understand it's divisive, and I'm not saying it's the perfect solution, but it's one avenue.
Bey Brad
Let’s just be honest with each other, though: there is a positive and a negative way to approach a conversation, and you decided to go with the latter. It might be easy to say that it’s just real feedback and it’s my choice to take it as I wish, but that’s a disingenuous position. You could have delivered it in a different way — you chose not to.

That’s your choice. As someone who’s making conscious effort to be more positive in every aspect of my life, especially here on the WBO, it’s my choice to simply not engage in conversations like that.



In the interest of transparency, I will address one thing head-on: yes, increased visibility — and ideally, increased membership — of the WBO was absolutely a factor in making this decision. Perhaps better known as “marketing.” And from a marketing perspective — speaking as someone who’s worked professionally in marketing for six years now — it was a no-brainer.

And we are unlikely to make decisions with the Wiki that would make it less “mainstream” or more difficult for a general or newbie audience to understand.

The #1 goal of the WBO is to build strong local Beyblade communities that host regular events. I assume this is pretty much understood by everyone here already. Growing the membership is absolutely essential not just to creating new communities, but making sure the ones that currently exist actually survive.

Because simply put, members leave. Often. Really often. Recently, we’ve lost a ton of valuable members. In my home already-small Montreal community, DJ ALPHA is retiring. And while Burst is now active in Japan, international participation is still in a lull.

So creating new Bladers — and consequently, making it easier for them to learn about Beyblade, join the WBO, and get involved in a local community — is absolutely a major focus for us right now.

Look forward to a spirit of more inclusiveness, not less. Beyblade is a kid’s game, and while it has a level of depth that adults like us love to explore, it’s important for us to not betray the spirit of openness that its origins entail.

That’s not to say that this is the only reason we took this decision — our platform is a disaster, Wikia’s is stable, Mana is a super-genius who we need to help us — but it was a considerable factor.

So regarding the language issue, in particular: rather than appealing to ideology or what any particular group wants, how about we make the decision that has the highest positive impact and inconveniences the smallest number of people the least?

To me, that seems obvious: use English terms when available, and Japanese terms when they’re not. On pages that use English-language terms, the original Japanese terminology should be clearly stated and prominently visible. We can have Japanese names redirect to these pages (or disambiguated if necessary), so both audiences are able to find the information they’re looking for.

While this may not be the “preferred” option of those who prefer Japanese terms (and honestly, I do too) it makes the most sense and involves the least negative consequences.



Finally, a bit on how and why the WBO makes the decisions it does.

As I mentioned earlier, members leave the community frequently. Even staples of the community, who I considered my best friends, have moved on. Heck, I left for ages, but returned because my heart pulled me back here, and I have a ton of knowledge and a newfound positivity to bring back to what’s essentially my life’s work. :’)

If the WBO made decisions based solely on what the active members of the community currently want, it wouldn’t be great. Not because our members don’t have great ideas — you do, constantly, and receiving them in my PM inbox is like the best part of being on the Committee — but because many of our members want different things, and they can’t be expected take into account all the other moving parts behind the scenes: our budget, our development schedule, etc.

And by the time we finished incorporating all of the decisions made by our members, most of them would’ve moved on.

So it’s up to the Committee to take in all that feedback and incorporate it into plans that not only make the majority of the community happy, but prepare us to deal with the future.

While it really sucks for us to see that some people are unhappy with the decisions we make, we know we can’t please everyone. If you disagree with something we do, feel free to let us know why. If there are issues we can address, we will address them to the best of our ability.

But ultimately, the Committee is tasked with making the hard decisions about the WBO’s future. Whether or not you agree with every decision we’ve ever made, I hope it’s clear that we’re willing to correct course if we’re wrong, and that we approach every decision with the best of intentions and only after a wealth of deliberation and analysis.

We really love you all, so we hope you’ll love us back. And if you wanna (nicely) complain about something, my inbox is always open, and so is the suggestions thread. Smile