Beyblade Random Thoughts

Actually, that's exactly what I'm noticing, vertical recoil; Jade is jumping a decent bit when it lands a good hit. I was actually thinking I'd want the COG to be higher for some reason, but I guess I was thinking about Wobblers instead of Force Smashers. There isn't much that would help with the COG in MFB other than things like heavy tips (MF, MB) and light clear wheels. Jade and TH170 need to stay since the custom is so reliant at hitting the opponent at the right height, and unfortunately TH170 realllllly raises the COG. I'll try with stuff like MB and light clear wheels next.
Apologies for double posting, but I think this is enough content to warrant it. This is my latest blog post, and it's everything I have tried with Jade's force smash abilities:


6/25/12: Holy Force Smashes, Batman!

Today I’m going to continue my testing of Jade as an attacker on TH170, and then I’ll move on to some other stuff.

MF-H Jade Cancer TH170MF

I’m continuing testing of this from yesterday. I’m going to try a bunch of stuff, like Defense vs. Stamina mode, Metal Faces, etc. I’m especially interested in Defense vs. Stamina mode, as the contact points are very different.

vs. MF-H Death Pegasus II BD145CS
220 Height, Stamina Mode:
  • I accidentally tornado stalled and proved, again, it’s bad at it.
  • This is horribly inconsistent, but good lord when it works it works. Death goes FLYING. I’m trying a bunch of launch techniques, but nothing is working consistently yet.
  • This custom has to win in the first few seconds; it’s only got the smash at really high RPMs. I might want to try rubber tips since the extra stamina from MF isn’t really that helpful, and intense hits are required.

220 Height, Defense Mode:
  • OH MY GOD IT’S FORCE SMASHING I LOVE YOU JADE
  • To elaborate, Jade has four curved sections that are exposed in Defense mode. These curves slam the opponent down into the stadium; it made Death scrape badly at very high spin rates, though it didn’t send Death very far.
  • Defense mode has much less smash attack, but in return it gains force smash. Not sure how to actually win with it yet, though.
  • Jade in Defense mode spins faster than in Stamina mode. It’s a lot more painful to pick up right after a battle begins than any other MFB I’ve used.


Dude from WBO mentioned that I need to keep the center of gravity as low as possible, but unfortunately there isn’t much I can do since the custom needs both Jade and TH170. I tried things like Geminos and MB, but I just wasn’t getting as good of results as I was with other customs. I think I found out the shell of the custom, and now it’s onto testing with different tips:

MF-H Jade (Defense) Saggitario II TH170___
  • F, WF, XF: These are all too short and don’t work because of that.
  • MF: This is working fairly well, but I think I can do better.
  • JB: I had to try it. It got one good hit that really slowed down Death and made Jade hop a little, but nothing terribly impressive. It’s also short.
  • RF, R2F, LRF: Th!nk told me I should use RF since, in plastics, force smashers used rubber bottoms, but I tried a wide variety of offensive rubber tips, and they just don’t have the stamina to OS the opponent even if the force smash happens.
  • EDS: I tried this on a hunch, but it actually got flipped over by Death, lol
  • HF/S: I had high hopes for this tip since it’s so tall, but I was underwhelmed by its performance. It has very little grip on the stadium and was very prone to self-KOs of all sorts, and its height was a little awkward since TH220HF/S is far too tall and TH195HF/S is a little too short.
  • RB: Oh ho ho ho, look at what we have here. RB did a phenomenal job; it was appropriately offensive and handled recoil well, and it had much better stamina than most of the other tips I tried. I think this is my favorite tip for this custom.

So, I’ve settled on my force smasher being:

(MF/-X) Jade Cancer TH170RB

Unfortunately, with a MF-H, it still just wasn’t winning enough. I’m going to try a variety of other face bolts seeing as that’s the last place I have left for customization. I’m going to wrap up this post for now and I’ll follow it up soon with the results of the face bolt testing. Until then!
Wow, really great to see you post all of this, it really shows what all goes through the mind of a blader when making a combo, haha. I'd love to try this... But as I don't have Jade and RB... I cannot. Unhappy
Oh well, off I go to my house to check the mail! Time to leave Starbucks, hopefully get my Phoenic, and the experimenting shall begin. Eee
hmm did you try mb, and rsf? (i have not read the blog)
Generally for force smash in plastics the main way to control vertical recoil is increasing rpm maintenance with a centered weight distribution. Much harder in mfb though, and if MF-H isn't enough, you might struggle.
read the blog did you try gcf/cf? i doubt theres much of a differance from wf but hey it may suprise us
(Jun. 26, 2012  7:24 AM)th!nk Wrote: Generally for force smash in plastics the main way to control vertical recoil is increasing rpm maintenance with a centered weight distribution. Much harder in mfb though, and if MF-H isn't enough, you might struggle.

I was afraid of this, MF-H not being enough. The weight of the bey is focused more around the center in general with Jade in Defense mode, and I can tell it maintains better RPMs in Defense mode from the simple fact that it hurts like crazy to pick up right after launching it.

I guess my only remaining hope is maybe MF-M and a clear wheel that focuses its weight around the center; can anyone think of a clear wheel that does that? Maybe something like Uranus?

(Jun. 26, 2012  12:56 PM)facade Wrote: read the blog did you try gcf/cf? i doubt theres much of a differance from wf but hey it may suprise us

I have not tried them, but I'll be getting GCF in the mail hopefully today and CF by Friday, so I'll try them out. This is actually a good suggestion that I hadn't thought of, thank you!
CF is pretty much the same shape as WF (just slightly different) and GCF is the same size as XF (the tips on them, not the disk, haha)
Ah, TAKARA's Engrish never ceases to give me a chuckle.
Doesn't help with the stereotypical L to R thing either, LOL
(Jun. 26, 2012  2:14 PM)Ingulit Wrote:
(Jun. 26, 2012  7:24 AM)th!nk Wrote: Generally for force smash in plastics the main way to control vertical recoil is increasing rpm maintenance with a centered weight distribution. Much harder in mfb though, and if MF-H isn't enough, you might struggle.

I was afraid of this, MF-H not being enough. The weight of the bey is focused more around the center in general with Jade in Defense mode, and I can tell it maintains better RPMs in Defense mode from the simple fact that it hurts like crazy to pick up right after launching it.

I guess my only remaining hope is maybe MF-M and a clear wheel that focuses its weight around the center; can anyone think of a clear wheel that does that? Maybe something like Uranus?

(Jun. 26, 2012  12:56 PM)facade Wrote: read the blog did you try gcf/cf? i doubt theres much of a differance from wf but hey it may suprise us

I have not tried them, but I'll be getting GCF in the mail hopefully today and CF by Friday, so I'll try them out. This is actually a good suggestion that I hadn't thought of, thank you!

werr i figured there must be a bit of extra hight on there to fit the disks
There's no height difference between CF and WF/GCF and XF...
While looking at the advertising for the LL2 in the instructions and warning sheet that came with a 4D bey I noticed that the little translation to Japanese that was above the English word Light translated into Japanese as Right so really what it is saying is Right Launcher 2 not Light Launcher so someone in Japan must have been overthinking the absence of L in the Japanese language and transrated as light instead of right
(Jun. 27, 2012  4:42 AM)Dingodigo Wrote: While looking at the advertising for the LL2 in the instructions and warning sheet that came with a 4D bey I noticed that the little translation to Japanese that was above the English word Light translated into Japanese as Right so really what it is saying is Right Launcher 2 not Light Launcher so someone in Japan must have been overthinking the absence of L in the Japanese language and transrated as light instead of right

No kidding, this is what I have always thought, but then they released "Right Launcher LR" and "Right Launcher L", so writing it as "Right" made no sense.

However, I still believe that there is nothing 'light' about the Light Launcher LR ... It could be Small Launcher LR, Simple Launcher LR, etc., but being light is a consequence in those cases, never the cause. A design is not simple because it is light ...
After conferring with my dad who is the one who figured it out and with a little digging of my own, I have found out that the way the word is pronounced righto which has several meanings in japanese so it could actually still be saying Light.
... That is exactly what I have been telling you, and what we have known here all along.
I guess I misunderstood your post but after doing the digging your post made more sense so thanks for the clarification.
Kinda surprised no one mentioned about this pic.Perhaps posting pics from the WBBA Diary is strictly prohibited?.
Anyways its about the drawing of the "beasts" of zero-G beys and I think the touch of the illustration is matching to its theme.
Samurai Ifraid
Shinobi Saramanda
Saramanda Ifraid
Orojya Revizer
Please remove the pics if its too dangerous.
Eh, those were definitely posted already ... Somewhere. It is not forbidden since they are essentially official pictures.


They are also not really "beasts" : their proper name is 'cryptid', or genjuu.
Okay, so, I got my LED Sight in the mail today and, to say the absoute least, I put PD through its paces. This is from my blog, but I wanted to post it here to get some feedback (espcially from other users who have the part). This is a long post, so if you're intersted, be ready for a long read, heh:


2/27/12: Time to polish off an old friend

This week is especially exciting for me because all the stuff I ordered off of eBay is arriving, and each day I get something new to test. Today my LED Sight came in, and with it a brand new PD. Let’s start with the LED Sight:

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LED Sight

I actually really like this thing. You mount it on the side of your launcher and you can change the pitch and yaw of the light so that it actually points to where your Beyblade will end up. With a little adjusting, the thing actually works like it was intended, which I thought was impressive.

Of course, this would be a horrible thing in a tournament setting since your opponent could potentially perform Gattyaki by launching at your LED spot.

However, there is nothing that says you HAVE to point it where the bey will end up; indeed, I think I’m going to use it specifically to mess with my opponents, both by potentially fooling them into thinking I’m launching my bey somewhere I’m not and by using it to be generally distracting without overtly bothering the opponent. It’s like a cat and a lazer pointer; I think even higher-level players will be somewhat distracted by the light on the stadium.

Of course, this distraction tactic won’t be terribly effective if the tournament is being held outdoors since it would be hard to see the light despite how surprisingly bright it is. Still, it looks awesome on my launcher, so I’m certainly going to use it.

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Polish Defense (PD)

Now, on to the real reason people import an LED Sight: it comes with PD, or Polish Defense, a tip that one can’t get anywhere else. PD is, as its name implies, a variant of the D family of tips, but it has a few traits that make it stand out from its kin. While it is the same height as the other D tips, it has a very different diameter; the width of the base is between WD and D. Furthermore, it has two large rectangular holes on either side of the base that actually affect the contour of the bottom. This is different from the holes on the bottom of WD because WD’s holes are only on the bottom, whereas the holes on PD continue up the circumference of the tip. Finally, PD is made of a different material (POM, I think? Something like that) that generates less friction with the stadium floor than the normal D family.

So, how do these changes from D and D’s brethren effect its performance? Well, the first thing I noticed was that it makes a pretty cool sound while it’s spinning if you listen close enough; I think the holes act like really small whistles (now I want a W tip that specifically makes a lot of noise while spinning, heh).

Another point on the holes is something that users on WBO were talking about, but I haven’t noticed myself: they said that when a bey using PD reaches the tornado edge, it hops because of the holes. While I can see how that would potentially happen just by looking at the piece, I have to say that I never encountered that in all of my testing, so that point is negligible.

The material it’s made out of is awesome. Yes, it is KOed slightly easier than WD, but let’s be honest, WD can’t take any hits anyway. Once you accept that the D family of tips will lose to any form of attack, you realize just how awesome PD’s stamina is thanks to the material it’s made of. I’ll post some solo spin times later, but before I do that I need to address PD’s next feature:

PD has a very, very interesting width. Like I said, it’s between D and WD, and thus PD becomes sort of a compromise between the two. I noticed that PD is far, far more stable on tall tracks than WD, but it isn’t quite as good as D. However, something PD has over D is that it will process for a far longer amount of time at low spin rates because of its extra width, but not quite as long as WD. So, what we’re left with is very much an in-between; tall tracks don’t give it as much trouble as they give WD, and it still has a lot of procession ability.

So why does that change solo spin times? I’m not exactly sure what the best height is for PD just yet, and I think it might be 160 or some of the other new Zero-G track heights. Like I said earlier, it’s not quite as good as D on tall tracks, and WD might be a safer pick on AD145, but it is a LOT better than WD on taller tracks which leads me to believe that it has a magic height somewhere above 145 and below 220. I’m still testing all of TH170’s heights, but without two TH170s to test with I have to rely on solo spin time tests to determine the best height (yuck). I feel like 160 might be a good height, so now I actually want Reviser (or maybe I’ll hold off for the gimmicked 160s that are coming out). I know Reviser Reviser is a defense powerhouse, but I muchhhhh prefer Duo’s Stamina, but I digress.

Now that that’s out of the way, on to today’s testing. Some of the ideas I had for PD were using it for Spin Equalizers since its lower friction might help both spin steal ability and overall stamina at the end of a battle; conventional stamina types, though that’s boring (Tongue_out); using it on E230 to see if a good stamina/defense Balance type could be made utilizing PD; and finally a special treat that I came up with that is showing some real potential. Here we go!

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PD: Spin Equalizer Testing

All tests were against Death Pegasus II AD145WD

I’m going to break this into sections based on the primary pieces of the combo (IE, what wheel is used or what track if that’s more important)

L-Drago Guardian
  • I’m still bent on making a spin equalizer that utilizes LDG’s obscene weight in the hopes of making a “safer” spin equalizer to use than the uber-light Meteo… but LDG’s horrific weight distribution keeps thwarting my plans :\ Regardless, I tried anyway:
  • MF-H LDG (TR145/ED145)PD: These tracks are the two that I own that seem to add some much-needed life after death (LAD) to our left-spinning friends, but this still just couldn’t beat Death. LDG topples too quickly on PD for this to work.
  • MF-H LDG TH170PD: Maybe a tall spin equalizer would work? Turns out that’s a definite no, at least with LDG; again, its weight distribution causes it to topple over far before Death stops spinning. PD didn’t help much here either, though it did a lot better than D on the same setup because it was able to process longer. I think there is some serious potential in TH170PD for a spin equalizer, but LDG is not that spin equalizer, heh.
  • I tried all the customs up to this point without MF-H, but I can’t ever tell a difference in LDG’s performance with vs. without a MF. This was no different.
  • LDG AD145PD: Maybe a more standard stamina build would work…? Nope, still can’t OS Death. Gah.
  • MF-H LDG LW105PD: How about some low-track LDG setups? Again, nope; the overall greater stability the lower center of gravity provides comes at the cost of even worse LAD (well, no LAD at all, thanks to the rubber).
  • One thing I’d like to mention at this point is that PD isn’t getting tossed around when the super-heavy LDG is piloting it despite LDG’s minor recoil. I was expecting PD to have trouble staying in the stadium, but LDG is holding on fine. I know I’m not exactly testing against an attack type, but recoil handling was one of my main concerns for PD. We’ll see what happens when we move onto lighter wheels.

Gravity Perseus (Stamina Ver.)
  • I’m testing GPS since I feel like the Stamina Version of Perseus would be the best suited for spin equalization due to the slightly lesser recoil, but if I’m wrong about this, please send me a PM on WBO! It would really help my testing if I know what type of Perseus I should be using (I think I have them all at this point).
  • MF-H GPS (TR145/ED145)PD: Okay, now I’m really beginning to notice PD’s lesser friction as GPS is getting knocked around a lot due to its own recoil. It hasn’t SKOed yet, but it’s certainly more noticeable than, say, WD or EWD’s handling. Unfortunately these tracks didn’t work, though I think it’s more due to GPS’s poor spin equalization ability than anything else.
  • MF-H GPS TH170PD: Yeah, on TH170 GPS can’t spin equalize very well, so this wasn’t very close.
  • I tried some of these customs without a Metal Face, and the recoil was very noticeable without it. It still didn’t SKO, but that was honestly due to a wall save or two.
  • MF-H GPS LW105PD: Yikes, it scraped a bunch! It was looking good until the last few moments when it scraped and just stopped spinning. A few days ago I was thinking GPS was good on 105 height… I should look at that again, I might be horribly wrong.

**ASIDE**

I’d like to take this opportunity to say that I really prefer TR145 for adding LAD to a combo more than ED145. TR145 is heavier, rounder, covers problem areas on the metal wheel’s underside, and seems to generally have better LAD than ED145. ED145 certainly isn’t bad, and it does add LAD to a combo (and is easier to obtain), but I think TR145 is much, much better at it.

Meteo L-Drago
  • MF-H Meteo L-Drago II (TR145/ED145)PD: Meteo is doing a LOT better than the last two I tried (and is much less frustrating to test with), but it still wasn’t winning much. Recoil hasn’t been a problem thus far, though I’d be wary to try without a Metal Face. I’m starting to think PD isn’t as cut out for spin equalizing as, say, EWD, but I’m going to keep trying.
  • MF-H Meteo L-Drago II TH170PD: Noooooooooo, it didn’t work! I had high hopes for this custom since I figured Meteo’s rubber would help it spin steal at the last few seconds of a fight, but it just got destablized ;_; Maybe this wasn’t such a good idea after all, sad. Maybe 160 would work better :\
  • MF-H Meteo L-Drago II CH120PD: This was much closer, and Meteo certainly did win a few times, but I think I still prefer Meteo CH120EWD and MF Meteo CH120XF over this. PD’s lack of friction didn’t make up for the lack of either a free-spinning tip or extra attacking capabilities, respectively.

Final Thoughts

So, it looks like PD isn’t cut out for spin equalizing like I thought it would be. So far EWD, XF, and GCF seem like the best routes to take for spin equalizers, and I’ll be testing CF once I get it in the mail Friday-ish.

Yes, I did say GCF; so far my testing with it has been stellar, though I think CF might end up being better. Also, I’ve been testing left-spin on E230, but I’ll leave that for another time.

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PD: Conventional Stamina Types

I’ve covered a lot of this, but I’ll say it again: I think PD fills a niche for a very specific height that I just don’t have access to. I think 160 might, maybe, remotely possibly be a good fit for PD, but I can’t say for sure. What I did find out was that PD certainly works on the most standard Stamina setups, with a few stand-out favorites:
  • Duo Cancer/Phantom Hades AD145PD
  • Duo Cancer/Phantom Hades TH170PD
  • Phantom Hades 85PD (I was surprised at how well this one worked)

I didn’t have time to do solo spin time tests, and I don’t have two of the same high-tier Stamina wheel with which to do comparative testing (though I’m getting a second Phantom in the mail Friday-ish, whoot!), but from informal testing I don’t see any reason why PD wouldn’t deserve a spot on the top-tier list for Stamina. It performed on the same level as WD and D, certainly, but I still think its true potential has yet to be tapped.

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PD: E230 Testing

So I’m trying to see if I can make a good stamina/defense balance type using E230 thanks to E230’s naturally amazing defense and its height’s well-known stamina ability. Testing was done against either Death Pegasus II AD145WD or MF-M Duo Cancer 230MB, whichever custom whose wheel was not being tested.
  • MF-H Duo Cancer E230PD: This really didn’t work as well as I would have hoped. Honestly, I think if “Boost Mode” was deemed legal this custom would have a good shot, but with the disk in its normal mode it just doesn’t have the stamina to OS anything. PD did do a remarkable job of keeping E230 upright, though, much better than WD or even D.
  • Duo Cancer E230PD: I didn’t notice a huge difference without the MF-H, which is to say it still lost by a noticeable margin. I’m thinking E230PD is a bust.
  • MF-H Death Pegasus II E230PD: This was a laughable fight against MF-M Duo Cancer 230MB, it wasn’t even close. E230 does not have nearly enough stamina in normal mode to stand even a chance against the Wobbler monster.

So, it looks like PD isn’t the track for an E230 defense/stamina hybrid after all, at least normal mode; I really, really, REALLY want to test this setup with E230 in “Boost Mode,” but I don’t want to test that until it’s deemed legal (if it ever is).

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PD: Fusion Testing

Now, onto my special treat. I was looking at my collection and a wheel that I am desperately trying to make viable jumped out at me: Fusion. Namely, I was thinking that its rubber frame would act to prevent absorb blows and prevent excessive recoil—the two things that PD has problems with—to allow PD to be used to its full potential safely. There were two ways I decided to go about this: either using tall tracks and Metal Up Mode (I don’t know the name, lol) or short tracks and Rubber Up Mode. That way, the rubber frame would come into the most contact with the opponent.

Another thing I’m testing is centered weight distribution. As I found in my Jade force-smashing tests, having weight really centered on a bey gives it amazing stability and higher possible RPMs. Fusion’s stamina is plagued by its really heavy metal core that sits right smack dab in the center of the wheel, which runs contrary to how conventional stamina types are supposed to work (typically using the Flywheel Effect and outward weight distribution). So, instead, I’m treating this like it’s a Compact Custom for a new age by centering weight as much as possible. That’s why you’ll see things like strange clear wheel choices in these tests.

I was using MF-M for the longest time with this idea of centered weight distribution, but I found that MF-H is just straight-up better since the entirety of the Face Bolt is basically the center of the blade and, thus, is all part of the center of the blade.

All tests are against Death Pegasus II AD145WD.
  • MF-H Fusion (Pieces/Susanow/Lynx) TH170PD: Fusion is in Metal Up mode. This custom actually worked pretty well; as I’ve noticed in the past, the centered weight distribution really, really helps the bey stay upright when knocked off balance, and PD was a champ at keeping the bey standing tall. Of the clear wheels I tested, I think Pieces and Susanow were doing the best; Lynx didn’t wow me, and the other two were closely matched. This custom did win a surprising number of matches, typically by staying in the center of the arena and not moving when Death would nudge it, causing Death to tilt onto its WD and lose stamina. This custom is very resistant to being moved or tilted off balance, which ended up in more effective stamina than its solo spin time (which is horrific) would indicate. So, this actually worked, but I wanted to try some other stuff.
  • Fusion Geminos 100PD: I know what you’re thinking: Ingulit’s gone crazy, what’s he testing here? Well, I was fooling around with my idea of Fusion in Rubber Up Mode on low tracks when I came across this idea. I tested MF-H Fusion Pieces (85/90/100)PD, and found that 100 was the lowest I could go without major scraping issues. The custom wasn’t working quite as well as I would have hoped (though it did, again, perform really well at what it was designed to do), so I decided to try focusing the weight of the bey as low as possible rather than as close to the center as possible. So, to keep the weight on the top of the bey light, I picked a normal face bolt, the lightest clear wheel, and had Fusion in Rubber Up Mode, thus putting all the metal along the bottom of the bey. What resulted was a bey that was very, very sturdy, very resistant to being knocked off-balance, and one that had very little recoil despite PD’s low traction. I need to keep testing with this idea, but it got late, so I’ll have to test this again some other time.

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Closing Remarks

Well, so far I like PD a lot, especially when paired with Fusion. Fusion’s rubber frame helps circumvent PD’s low friction and allows the bey to safely take advantage of PD’s stamina offered to it by its unique material. More testing is a must, and I am sure I can goof around with weight distribution some more to find the optimal setup, so I’ll leave that for another day. All-in-all, I’m happy with my purchase of the LED sight, and I’m looking forward to more PD testing.

There might not be an update tomorrow since I’ll be out of town most of the day, but I’ll try to post something from my phone if I think of something cool. By Friday I should have all my new parts from internet orders, so I’ll be testing something fierce this coming weekend. So, until then!
For testing PD, using two Earth Wheels or something similar might be more appropriate than two phantoms, between recoil and the huge performance variations in 4D wheels, Earth is probably more consistent. If you can test it, we can probably put PD up on the Competitive Combos list, I think we were all mainly just worried about stability with the low friction and so on.

Excellent post, by the way, glad to see you're making some headway.
By the way, you wrote that PD was a Track, at one point.
*ahem*
Beyblade.
I prefer the 2nd gen. Galaxy Pegasis.
That is all......

random.
Out of all of the Pegasis, I prefer the original over all of the others. I especially love Pegasis 145D, I can't get enough of that Black colored center. I have one for play, and one to sit in it's package up on a shelf and sit there and be pretty along with my other NIB beys. XD